Ubpdh earning cheap points with d16 Part 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341707.0

I do not believe you should wait for word from the clinician.

If you do choose to wait, please make sure he has the full story.

"Given that my husband has assaulted me and my daughter in the past and given that his threatening me with assault now, do you believe I should alert police and potentially other authorities.  Can you please give me a written list of authorities I should contact and if there are any you believe I should not contact, please list those out as well."

Something like that.  

Best,

FF

Ff, thank you for the practical and detailed instruction. I understand these much better. He did not end up doing the home visit today as we are in a snow belt, but given the weather predictions he assured me that he will come by Friday

[snowglobe]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341707.0

I do not believe you should wait for word from the clinician.

If you do choose to wait, please make sure he has the full story.

"Given that my husband has assaulted me and my daughter in the past and given that his threatening me with assault now, do you believe I should alert police and potentially other authorities.  Can you please give me a written list of authorities I should contact and if there are any you believe I should not contact, please list those out as well."

Something like that.  

Best,

FF

Ff, thank you for the practical and detailed instruction. I understand these much better. He did not end up doing the home visit today as we are in a snow belt, but given the weather predictions he assured me that he will come by Friday

[formflier]

  Support is only provided on a condition of compliance and peace.
 

This is a reality he has trained you for and you seem to cling to, regardless of what other people think or the laws of the nation that you live in.

His support IS NOT ONLY conditioned on compliance and peace.  If you allow it to be so, then it will be so. 

The rest is better understood by meeting with a lawyer you have retained.  Perhaps the same lawyer that could help you present the threats of violence against you (and and accurate DV history) to the appropriate authorities, could also educate you on what support the state can compel your H to provide.

Please do not wait for the home visit to set up a meeting to retain a lawyer.

Snowglobe I'm very concerned you don't seem to understand the danger you and your family are in.

Please take more action than waiting on a home visit.

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

Majority of people in North America are coming from individualistic societies- make thuself happy and take responsibility for yourself. I was born and raised in a collectivist society, that said “be somebody’s wife, daughter and mother”, only through serving others can you be considered good. Different mentality, you see.  .

That's an interesting observation, let's pull it apart some more can we?    Does 'only through serving others can you be considered good', mean to you that you have no choice in who you serve?   that you have no input into how much service you provide or in what conditions you do it in?    in  a collectivistic society everyone serves a common purpose ?    what happens if one member of the collective actively damages the collective?   do you still have a loyalty to the collective ?   and where does that loyalty stop?

if the job of the collective is to pour water into a bucket and one member of the collective is drilling holes in the bucket, do you?

• change the member drilling holes
• pour more water as fast as you can
• put your water in a different bucket
• protect and repair the existing bucket

He did not end up doing the home visit today as we are in a snow belt, but given the weather predictions he assured me that he will come by Friday

which clinician is this again please?    Sorry but I have lost track.     has this clinician provided good and helpful information in the past, and are you confident that he will do so again?

what day are you in, amongst this 8 day period?     what do you think might happen when the 8 days end?   do you have an idea how you might respond once you reach day 9?  do things just go back to 'normal'?   does this cycle of conflict start all over again?

if you are going to take some action I would caution that it be carefully thought out and run by people not emotionally invested.      don't do anything rash.     have you spoken to a domestic violence counselor?    usually they are only a phone call away.   there are also websites that allow you to remain anonymous.

The ideal case is to get him mandatorily psycho evaluated, which can be done only by the police.

for the record,    I don't believe this is the ideal case.    the ideal case would be that the family is safe and you and the children aren't exposed to violent and misogynistic behavior.   repair and protect the bucket,  move the bucket out of the way of the person with the drill.     put your water into a different bucket while the first one is under construction.     don't only be focused on the drill and holes in the bucket.

[Notwendy]

Snowglobe, I would caution you about not dismissing this situation as cultural. If all of us were invested in "me first" we would not be trying to help others here - others who are or have been in situations with similar patterns to ours. "only through serving others can you be good" might work if you were with other people who also abide by that idea. But who is helping or looking out for you Snowglobe? Not anyone you have written about and not even yourself.

If you read the posts here, you would see that others are leaning more towards your thinking and some are enduring abusive behaviors and taking on more responsibility for the other person than is emotionally healthy in any cultural view, unless you abide in the concept of slavery- where one person owns the other and can do what they want to them.

I don't even know of a religion in our western world that maintains that only by serving others can you be good. Service to others is considered to be a good thing, but it doesn't define your self worth. Rather, the idea that each person is made in the image of God means we are equal in self worth and we don't have to allow others to mistreat us or diminish who we are to "be good". The ideal, I think, is to maintain a balance. We should help others, but also we can value ourselves.

Modern feminism doesn't mean dumping your family or obligations. It means you aren't your husband's property. It means you have the right to vote, and can hold a job if you want to or need to, or be a stay at home mom if you want and can afford it. It means you aren't a lesser human being than your husband.

Culture is only one influence on a person. Parents raise children, and if you believe your self worth depends only on serving others, than this is more likely to come from your parents who have misinterpreted the culture in this manner.

I will leave you with this famous quote from your tradition: Rabbi Hillel said

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
But if I am only for myself, who am I?
If not now, when?"

[Cat Familiar]

Snowglobe, it makes sense that you've been "programmed" to be the obedient wife/servant/mother. That is in your past. How you are living now is different. You are educating yourself with the idea that you will have marketable skills in the workplace that will allow you to take care of yourself and your children, regardless of how foolish your husband may be with the family assets.

You are also living in a culture that supports women's independence and autonomy.

Had your husband actually been a kind, supportive, father and provider, being the obedient wife/servant/mother might have worked out just fine. But here you are, on a forum for people in dysfunctional relationships. Obviously what you've been doing hasn't provided you with the results you hoped for.

Perhaps it's time to try something new.

What all these commentators seem to agree upon is that you've been putting all your attention on him, hoping despite evidence that he will change and see the error in his ways.

How about shifting that focus to you and your children? Your husband has behaved abysmally. He's been financially irresponsible. He's been physically and emotionally abusive. He's unreliable.

Perhaps he feels that he can behave unkindly and you will continue to tolerate it. So far you have. There have been no consequences for his abusive behavior.

You've had choice points along the way where you could have secured your share of the family assets and had more autonomy in how you wanted to live your life. You've chosen not to do that. Instead, you trusted him over and over. And he's made some choices that are unsustainable.

At some point, you will have this choice again about your share of the family assets. How are you going to choose?

[snowglobe]

This is a reality he has trained you for and you seem to cling to, regardless of what other people think or the laws of the nation that you live in.

His support IS NOT ONLY conditioned on compliance and peace.  If you allow it to be so, then it will be so. 

The rest is better understood by meeting with a lawyer you have retained.  Perhaps the same lawyer that could help you present the threats of violence against you (and and accurate DV history) to the appropriate authorities, could also educate you on what support the state can compel your H to provide.

Please do not wait for the home visit to set up a meeting to retain a lawyer.

Snowglobe I'm very concerned you don't seem to understand the danger you and your family are in.

Please take more action than waiting on a home visit.

Best,

FF

Ff,
I left two messages trying to secure an appointment with legal counsel. With holidays coming up, it’s difficult to get people to agree. I’m concerned that by the time I will secure the time, this crisis will blow over and I will again hesitate to do anything about it.

[formflier]

Snowglobe 

I'm proud of you for making the call to legal counsel.  Very proud of you.  How did you feel when making the call?

Same attorney you have used before?

Have you called DV shelters in your area before?  If so what was your experience like?

Best,

FF

[snowglobe]

That's an interesting observation, let's pull it apart some more can we?    Does 'only through serving others can you be considered good', mean to you that you have no choice in who you serve?   that you have no input into how much service you provide or in what conditions you do it in?    in  a collectivistic society everyone serves a common purpose ?    what happens if one member of the collective actively damages the collective?   do you still have a loyalty to the collective ?   and where does that loyalty stop?

if the job of the collective is to pour water into a bucket and one member of the collective is drilling holes in the bucket, do you?

• change the member drilling holes
• pour more water as fast as you can
• put your water in a different bucket
• protect and repair the existing bucket

which clinician is this again please?    Sorry but I have lost track.     has this clinician provided good and helpful information in the past, and are you confident that he will do so again?

what day are you in, amongst this 8 day period?     what do you think might happen when the 8 days end?   do you have an idea how you might respond once you reach day 9?  do things just go back to 'normal'?   does this cycle of conflict start all over again?

if you are going to take some action I would caution that it be carefully thought out and run by people not emotionally invested.      don't do anything rash.     have you spoken to a domestic violence counselor?    usually they are only a phone call away.   there are also websites that allow you to remain anonymous.

for the record,    I don't believe this is the ideal case.    the ideal case would be that the family is safe and you and the children aren't exposed to violent and misogynistic behavior.   repair and protect the bucket,  move the bucket out of the way of the person with the drill.     put your water into a different bucket while the first one is under construction.     don't only be focused on the drill and holes in the bucket.

Ducks,
With your analogy of the bucket- you move the drilling member away from the bucket until he is well enough to start participating for the common good.
The Psychologist I have mentioned has been with the family for 7 years. He was involved in treatment of our s12, participated with counseling for d16 over the years, consulted me and the family over the years. He was first who even brought the idea of “something is terribly wrong here” regarding my ubpdh’s behaviour. He advocated for s12 and d16 when they needed help, I’m absolutely confident that he is the best person to seek advice from, given his long term involvement with the family.
I’m in day 6 now, it started on Saturday. I don’t know what I will do on day 9 -nothing. This isn’t something that can be reasoned with, he stayed home today and didn’t go to work. He seems to be angrier that I am not coming to placate him and make him feel better. Last night he sent me a text “ Check email and confirm petition”. When I opened the email, the attachment was in the gun legislation, which I signed without thinking. I didn’t acknowledge the message. Today I wonder if this was water-testing exercise. Perhaps it’s his way of engaging. Why stay home the next day?. I just heard him doing practice shooting in the basement. I don’t know what “going back to normal” will look like, nor do I think it can even be normal. I will continue detaching and focusing on the children.

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe, I would caution you about not dismissing this situation as cultural. If all of us were invested in "me first" we would not be trying to help others here - others who are or have been in situations with similar patterns to ours. "only through serving others can you be good" might work if you were with other people who also abide by that idea. But who is helping or looking out for you Snowglobe? Not anyone you have written about and not even yourself.

If you read the posts here, you would see that others are leaning more towards your thinking and some are enduring abusive behaviors and taking on more responsibility for the other person than is emotionally healthy in any cultural view, unless you abide in the concept of slavery- where one person owns the other and can do what they want to them.

I don't even know of a religion in our western world that maintains that only by serving others can you be good. Service to others is considered to be a good thing, but it doesn't define your self worth. Rather, the idea that each person is made in the image of God means we are equal in self worth and we don't have to allow others to mistreat us or diminish who we are to "be good". The ideal, I think, is to maintain a balance. We should help others, but also we can value ourselves.

Modern feminism doesn't mean dumping your family or obligations. It means you aren't your husband's property. It means you have the right to vote, and can hold a job if you want to or need to, or be a stay at home mom if you want and can afford it. It means you aren't a lesser human being than your husband.

Culture is only one influence on a person. Parents raise children, and if you believe your self worth depends only on serving others, than this is more likely to come from your parents who have misinterpreted the culture in this manner.

I will leave you with this famous quote from your tradition: Rabbi Hillel said

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
But if I am only for myself, who am I?
If not now, when?"

Wendy,
It’s my favourite quote, it was a begging of the transition for me from “it’s all my fault I’m worthless” to “ I’m going to educate myself and realize what is happening”. I don’t blame me staying solemnly on collectivism, it’s more of my conditioning. This site is my lifeline, the only place I feel safe, validated and empathized with.

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe 

I'm proud of you for making the call to legal counsel.  Very proud of you.  How did you feel when making the call?

Same attorney you have used before?

Have you called DV shelters in your area before?  If so what was your experience like?

Best,

FF

I’m so scared Ff, I’m shaking with anxiety, my limbs are frozen. I’m scared because now it’s feeling real. I’m concerned for the consequences but I also don’t see how it can get worse for me. I’m done running. I didn’t call DV shelter, I can stay with family or friend who has been involved in the process and is up to date.

[formflier]

I’m done running. I didn’t call DV shelter, I can stay with family or friend who has been involved in the process and is up to date.

 

I don't want to speak for others, but I don't think they were wanting you to find a place to stay (although it's nice to have options)

There is only so much we can do via "text" on these boards.  Being able to speak on the phone or sit down in person with a trained and compassionate person in the DV field would likely benefit you.

Even if you just find one and have a brief conversations and store the number away for future use.  You'll know that resource is there.

Please be kind to yourself.  Get support for you!

Best,

FF

[AskingWhy]

I read the first thread, and it appears that pwBPD have no boundaries when it comes to their children.  The children are extensions of themselves.  This is especially the truth when there is a divorce, and the children live with an ex spouse.

My uBPD H was a spineless pushover with his children when they were young, then teenagers, and even into adulthood.  They could do no wrong.  Drugs, suicide, expulsion from the military, alcoholism, relapses in rehab (paid for by father, of course), shoplifting, perpetrating workplace bullying:  these are among the things his children did and H only make light of it, or, thanks to dissociation, forgot about it.  These failings were only "small issues" and of no concern in children who were idols of perfection.

My adult B has a son who is 30, lives at home and is addicted to online games, alcohol and food.  The young man is morbidly obese.  He had a short fantasy of being a rock star and his father bought him tens of thousands of dollars in musical instruments and set up a studio in the home garage.  The mother of the young man left while he was a baby thanks to her drug addictions and alcoholism.  She was never married to the father.  The father bought tons of beer and liquor for these all night gaming parties at the house.  Many of the attendees were under aged and ate the man's food and raided the kitchen.  The "guests" trashed the house and could not be bothered to even take out the trash.  The kitchen trash and bathroom had trashcans with trash just thrown on the floor.  My B could not even tell his son to have his friends bring their own meal and keep the house clean.  My B spent an untold amount of money paying for some twelve young people to stay at his home playing fantasy games and they repaid him by trashing the house.  This is not even to mention if the under aged drinkers got into any sort of trouble.

I think the F and D R/S is really twisted in a man with BPD.