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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: I was speechless, still don't know how to respond  (Read 905 times)
formflier
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« on: December 24, 2019, 08:16:36 AM »



So, my wife just came into the living room and announced that today was the last day to pickup  a ham for Christmas.  (we have one reserved)

Before I could respond, she wheels around and walks out of the room and starts ranting in the kitchen.

"I'll make hamburgers for Christmas.  You best your azz I'll mak'em."

Umm...wow, what do I do/say?

So far I'm just going on like it never happened.

And yes...I plan on getting a ham when the furnace guys leave (doing some tweaks on an upgrade)

Best,

FF
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2019, 08:35:32 AM »


Update

She "pops into" the living room where I'm trying to get some stuff done on my laptop.

"So are you going to get the ham?"

me "Yes"

She quickly exited with more ranting about how they are likely all gone (they may be, but I have some reservation thing, not sure how that works)

Perhaps today is going to be odd.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2019, 08:40:56 AM »

Yep.  The waters are getting choppy out there!  Better watch out. 

Old Formflier thought he picked a nice day to go kayaking out on the lake!   Smiling (click to insert in post) 

But it's holiday season... when the BPDs bring out the extra crazy to make sure everyone knows they're still there...
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2019, 08:54:35 AM »

It will pass by the time she gets about 3/4 down the mental list she is carrying around in her head. (No, she's not actually going to share that list with you...but the ham is definitely on the list.)
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2019, 09:02:40 AM »

Chalk it up to holiday stress. She probably has a lot on her mind. Christmas at your house must be a lot of fun, but it also is a lot of work.

Just go get the ham. You need to get it by today anyway. On the way, stop at Starbucks, get a warm drink and chill for a few moments.
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 09:17:44 AM »


Yeah, today is likely about "kitchen oddness".

D6 and D9 are helping Mommy and S17 put together deviled eggs.  So, lots of squishing things together and they perhaps didn't find the recipe.

Well, it all gets done and Mommy asks the girls if they want to try one.  They aren't very "adventurious" in their eating, so they quickly and emphatically said "NO!"

It was kinda cute, S17 and I giggled. 

Well Mommy starts "fake laughing" that was almost a yell, could be heard all over the house and banged on the counter top several times.

Weird day...I wonder what's next.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2019, 10:55:28 AM »


She seemed genuinely angry that I walked in the door with the ham I had reserved. 

She exclaimed that she could't believe "I came up with a ham..."

No real response or debate.

Sigh

Best,

FF
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2019, 10:59:11 AM »

Yeah, that sounds like a "day" to me. Holiday business and stress on multiple levels tend to bring that out. Like an extra gift. Fun times!
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 11:05:53 AM »

Grump alert!


I am also stressed a bit. I love having family here but it is a lot of work too. Your family is large, and surely they eat a lot. There's more chaos with people home from school, and hubby is home from work.

Thankfully I don't have BPD and I am not projecting the grump. I really love to have everyone here and enjoy the good time together. Thankfully the kids do help. The best thing my H has done today is take everyone out to eat and give me some time to myself and to get organized.

If she wants to make burgers, then let her. You can cook the ham. I would bet whatever food is around your house- it's going to get eaten with the number of people you have there. Basically, consider that whatever she says is probably how she is feeling in the moment. It's not about you.

And merry Christmas everyone, with all the wonderful moments, stressful moments too! Roll with it FF!

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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2019, 11:32:56 AM »

It's always stressful to cook for more guests than usual. I'm trying to keep things as calm as possible today. Honestly, it helps that my stepdaughter and granddaughter. Both are sick with a bad cold virus, are staying over at my son's house and are being respectful and careful not to spread the virus to older relatives -- 66, 70, and 93.
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2019, 02:03:19 PM »

On the one hand "letting things roll off your back" keeps stress low.  On the other hand, I have to stop and be deliberate about figuring out what the "real hot potato" is.  (usually not what they are complaining about)

So...S19 lives in an apartment close to campus nearby.  Great kid.  Probably the one most like me.  He is "in the pipeline" to be a Naval Aviator some day.  Seems to have a decent chance of making it.  

Anyway, this past Sunday he brought his girlfriend home for Sunday dinner.  His Mom doesn't approve and has been outspoken to S19 that "he needs to toss her back."

He hasn't paid her a bit of attention and gone on with the relationship.  

FFw's big issue is that she is Catholic, which in her mind means she's not a Christian and she doesn't want her son "unequally yoked".  

I don't share the same view and have decided not to argue or discuss this with my wife.

She seems really nice, comes from large family (like ours).  Like my wife, she is really thin and wore "tight" but appropriate clothes (ff view)
  
My wife commented afterwards.  "Well she's nice but wears tight clothes.  I wore tight clothes because I didn't know any better."

Then...I think the real fear comes out

"I can't believe she's sleeping with my kid"  (note...I have no idea and I'd be shocked if S19 would ever reveal that one way or another)

Sigh.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2019, 07:25:06 AM »

This is a boundary thing —at 19 you know your now adult child will date who he wants to date and what they do together is none of your business. By now I’m sure he has heard your values. Now it’s up to him to make choices. I hope you have left the door open with him if he has questions - “man to man “ as he navigates relationships.

The classic triangle is “Romeo and Juliette” - getting between them is most likely to push them closer. She seems like a nice person. Fashion these days tends to be tight (leggings, skinny jeans ) and the young people want to look current.

Support your wife’s feelings but I would not take action on them . Your son still needs you for advice and emotional support.
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2019, 08:34:40 AM »

Your wife is upset with you about the "ham" because your son's GF is Catholic? Before you take this one to the bank, you might want to think it out.

Holiday stress. Everyone helping. FF not "on top of it".

There is holiday tension in my house too. I got barked at for "not being part of the solution" too.

These might be two issues.
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2019, 09:37:29 AM »

Your wife is upset with you about the "ham" because your son's GF is Catholic? Before you take this one to the bank, you might want to think it out.
 

This has been sort of a "lifelong" fear that is actually coming true.  She was raised in a heavily catholic area and "knows" how they are...son gone...grandbaby's gone...etc etc.

They may or may not be related.

This holiday's has gone much smoother than past ones...by any conceivable metric (except BPDish mind). 

This is the first "out of religion" boy or girlfriend.
Best,

FF
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GaGrl
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2019, 09:49:32 AM »


This is the first "out of religion" boy or girlfriend.
Best,

FF

We're getting ready for our big family dinner at a cousin's house. We now have family members who have married non-Protestant spouses -- Jewish, Buddhist, Roman Catholic, Muslim. It has certainly enriched our family!
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2019, 01:09:29 PM »

Stress can compound. She may be upset about the girlfriend and add holiday stress to that.

It’s stressful here too. When my H is off work he wants to be off. That increases the work for me. I’ve already said something about it and he is helping but his first response is usually nasty. He seems to need to say something mean first then when it’s out of his system he’s calmer. It’s tough because I don’t want an ugly scene in front of the kids but the other option is to just be the maid and cook and feel resentful.

I’ve learned to not react to the nasty words but it’s still not pleasant. This time of year I think we have to be vigilant with our own feelings. If we are stressed or tired we face potential escalation. Self care is key and I think it’s best not to react to what is said under stress.
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2019, 08:31:51 PM »

I am not surprised that she is concerned about her evangelical son dating a Catholic girl.  There are significant differences in the faiths.  I also see no reason why a parent should not be free to voice their objections to their children.  Parenting doesn't end at 18.  While it is ultimately his choice, not hers, she as a parent is free to express her objections.

This doesn't sound like a BPD issue to me.  Now BPD may show up later as she emotionally deals with her son making a "bad" choice.
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2019, 02:55:54 PM »

I hope for this young woman’s sake that she realizes she is considered a “bad” choice in an evangelical family and will not be appreciated or accepted by them before there’s a big heartbreak.

She deserves to be in a relationship where she’s cherished should she become a family member.

I hope your son realizes this before he puts her through this with his family.

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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2019, 03:16:17 PM »

I know some will disagree with this, but what I’ve found is that “unevenly yoked” extends beyond religion. I’m not in favor of marrying someone outside the religion / denomination not because there’s anything wrong with either person but because of potential issues it may (or may not ) cause for both of them. I also realize that what causes two people to fall in love is beyond my control and adults make their own choices. Many of them work out.

What I’ve observed is that how well a couple works out this difference is similar to their ability to work out other conflicts. Communication skills, maturity, emotional regulation skills play a part of this. I have seen people of different religions and races work this out harmoniously and not, and people in the  same religion argue bitterly over smaller things- or not.

I’ve known parents who voice their disapproval. They often come around when the first child is born. They realize they love their child and grandchild and need to accept the family as a unit. One couple eloped because of parental disapproval. The parents didn’t know this until they were notified about the grandchild. They missed their child’s wedding.

One can voice disapproval if they need to, but I have not seen this lead to a breakup of the couple and seen it cause hurt.
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2019, 03:24:53 PM »

You may also drive your son away from you if you or your wife expresses disapproval.  I was raised in a religion and I was taught to have love and tolerance for all people.  I feel like religious people that don't practice the same give religion a bad name.  I see a lot of judgment and intolerance, which is the opposite of what I was taught. What about the character of your son's girlfriend? 
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2019, 04:10:48 PM »

To be clear, the only disapproval I've heard of comes from my wife.

I've told my son she seems nice and I'm looking forward to getting to know her better.  I couldn't imagine making a judgment one way or another without knowing her, regardless of what church she attends.

My impression from the one time (perhaps two) that I've seen my wife "push at him" about the girlfriend is that he kinda rolled his eyes, grinned and was obvious about not participating in that part of the conversation..

Basically a good boundary based response.  Any pointers I would give him would be "tweaks".

Best,

FF
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2019, 05:33:43 PM »

I’ve also seen conversions and changing churches. In all different directions to and from religions/denominations. I think it’s natural for a parent to feel surprise and concern upon hearing the news for the first time. Still- many embrace the new member of the family - this is who their child chose. I’ve also seen when they haven’t. It’s a lot of heartbreak

I was always touched by the strain on Tevya in Fiddler on the roof. I thought he didn’t come around for the younger daughter who married the Russian. But recently I saw the last scene where he spoke to her via her sister and she smiles. I realized he then began to accept her even if it was so difficult to him. So touching. Kids don’t want to break to their family over this and I doubt parents do either.
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2019, 06:44:51 PM »

I've seen and experienced some of the anti-Catholic opinions from my family, too. It's not unique to pwBPD to have these kinds of opinions. The most recent example that I have is my sister's expression of concern about my brother attending a Catholic church. She thought that it wasn't "really Christian" based on what she has been taught by her church. I have been in a pastoral role before and have a good understanding of the various belief systems, so I tried to explain to her. She didn't really want to hear it, and I decided it was best to let it drop.

That being said, there are some specific beliefs and practices within the Catholic church that can be concerning to folks.
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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2019, 07:05:27 PM »


For my wife, there is a lot of negative based on where she grew up and her perceptions of "how Catholics were/are".

Add to this some "anti-catholic religious teaching" from her family and perhaps some of the churches my wife attended growing up.

My wife isn't interested in "understanding" nuances or my opinion on this, so I simply don't engage on it.  Apparently my son takes the same tactic as well.

Big picture update

Holidays went well, including all the meals (yes the ham was there and loved by all).

Best,

FF
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2019, 09:29:09 PM »

So... no hamburgers for Christmas, then?  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I think if it doesn't bother your son, I wouldn't engage on it, either. Perhaps validate feelings if she comes to you. It may blow over with time.
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2019, 10:15:07 PM »

So... no hamburgers for Christmas, then?  Being cool (click to insert in post)


Nope...

The azz in me wants to put'em on the menu for next year.

"You know babe, there was talk of burgers last year.  Let's do it this year. "

Anyone dare me?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2019, 11:06:59 PM »

Nope...

The azz in me wants to put'em on the menu for next year.

"You know babe, there was talk of burgers last year.  Let's do it this year. "

Anyone dare me?

Best,

FF

The Year of Living Dangerously.
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2019, 06:06:26 AM »

I think it depends on the girl. People don’t necessarily follow their religion strictly. I know some Catholic people who now attend a Protestant church, or converted to another religion, and also some who strictly adhere. I could say the same for people of other religions too.

If these two remain serious - then they will need to work this out between them, but it’s possible.
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