She's pushing for orders ASAP

[Enabler]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342831.0

Because she's pushing for ACTUAL orders ASAP i.e. end of Feb. I want actual orders and actual resolution if D is actually what she intends.

In the meantime, I will be doing my utmost to complete the remaining actions for our mediation to progress towards a financial agreement and application for decree absolute.  Please could you update me on the progress with your pension contract conditions and when I can expect to see these?  Plus the conditions/rules of the share plans which I also need to see a copy of.

If we are unable to expedite this process or I feel out of my depth (which is currently the case), I will need to pass the reins over to my solicitor to lead it.
  
I will forward this on to Mediator to keep him updated of where we are.  If we do continue with mediation I would like to have our remaining details ready to see him by the end of February.

[Skip]

I don't know anyone that could work through a final agreement in 2 weeks and especially not the two of you... you both trigger off each other... even after mediation, there are no stating point offers.

The clock is going to run out and she will hire an attorney to represent her...

I'd strongly encourage you to try making a temporary agreement to take the pressure off, build some trust, buy a little time for the mediator to do his work.

Above all, you need legal advice.

[GaGrl]

So she has rather suddenly ratcheted up the divorce. I hadn't understood that she was pushing for final dissolution. This changes things.

It sounds as if you can give her your fair offer in mediation one more time, but it that last attempt does not work, it's time for the lawyers to get involved.

She has a solicitor. Do you have one who is up to date on your circumstances?

[Skip]

It sounds as if you can give her your fair offer in mediation one more time, but it that last attempt does not work, it's time for the lawyers to get involved.

FYI - Enabler's wife has not been given any offers - they have been discussed here, only.

[formflier]

I'd strong encourage you to consider making a temporary agreement to take the pressure off, build some trust.

And...knowing her and how you guys work through change...I think there is a high chance that your temp orders will look exactly like your final order.  

I wouldn't say that to her but she seems to get "stuck" in a rut for a long time.

So...keep that in mind as you create the temp order.  

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Enabler, I understand that one of your criteria is not spending money needlessly. The divorce process has been moving at a glacial pace until recently. You might think you have plenty of time to dot all those i’s and cross all those t’s. But if you don’t have a solicitor yet, you would be wise to get one ASAP.

Things can go from 0 to 60 once lawyers get involved. And if you’re not prepared, you’ll be at a major disadvantage.

[Skip]

Things can go from 0 to 60 once lawyers get involved. And if you’re not prepared, you’ll be at a major disadvantage

Up to this point, you have set the agenda. Once the lawyer steps in, others will set the agenda. He will do everything he can to stack the deck in her favor. He will like start with a show of force - clients like to see that - its good for business.

A lawyer will often advise a client to take actions before surfacing that a lawyer is engaged - like withdrawing 50% of  the cash from the bank accounts, filing ex parte orders/ restraining orders, changing locks, changing access to children at school and church, etc.

You are operating with the belief that the two of you will work this out between you (which means she will trust your offer), the two of you will be congenial and fluid co-parents, and maybe she will just see the light and decide to rededicate herself to the marriage.

I think you are not taking her serious that she feels trapped and overwhelmed and is getting increasingly hardened toward you and the processes you are encouraging. She has said this clearly.

What happened in this most recent joint therapy session is should be concerning. The therapist - and expert in co-parenting - basically said there is no ability to amicably co-habitat and someone needs to move out before you can even start the process.

[sweetheart]

I think you are not taking her serious that she feels trapped and overwhelmed and is getting increasingly hardened toward you and the processes you are encouraging. She has said this clearly.

What happened in this most recent joint therapy session is should be concerning. The therapist - and expert in co-parenting - basically said there is no ability to amicably co-habitat and someone needs to move out before you can even start the process.

This from Skip.
Enabler you are not listening to your wife, the therapist, or the community here.
You keep posting and replying, but as I keep reading from you, still continuing to work to your own agenda despite everyone’s ongoing support.

Despite everybody’s responses to the contrary about your email to your wife, you still went ahead and sent it. The email was invalidating and triggering, and read as really controlling.

There reads to me an abusive dynamic to your behaviour toward your wife albeit veiled in your attempts at reconciliation. This has been raised before here, and by your wife.

I was struck when reading your posts, that it could be your wife posting on here for support about her situation, because your actions are most definitely keeping the impasse between you well and truly stuck.

[Enabler]

Skip,

The therapist - and expert in co-parenting - basically said there is no ability to amicably co-habitat and someone needs to move out before you can even start the process.

The T pointed out that there was no boundary. She said that there can be a boundary whilst living in the same abode but it required work. W in next session makes speech. T then becomes very neutral and says that her work (Strictly relating to co-parenting) can only function when THE Boundary has been formed. She did not state the above.

You are operating with the belief that the two of you will work this out between you (which means she will trust your offer), the two of you will be congenial and fluid co-parents, and maybe she will just see the light and decide to rededicate herself to the marriage.

I am operating with the belief that we are in a functioning process... mediation, or at least a process that could function if she chooses for it to function. She did not come prepared for it to function as she was ill prepared to share what she wants (likely because she doesn't know what she wants). This process (mediation) was one SHE chose, and I have FULLY participated in. If she is overwhelmed by the process she has chosen, and I have fully cooperated with that process, how am I culpable for her being overwhelmed other than by not 'giving' her a deal I don't want to be participating in in the first place? She accuses me of being controlling, so I try not to control... she is controlling the process (hence 3yrs)... am I to take control... and thus be controlling in the way she has accused me of?

Would she trust a deal I put on the table? No
Would she trust a deal she puts on the table? Maybe... but she hasn't done that either.

My hope for reconciliation is utterly different from my actions to co-operate with the process she has chosen to follow. If my hopes for reconciliation were to feed through into my actions surely I would refuse to action any work on the divorce, I would not attend any meetings, I would not offer my help... which some respected members here have suggested I do.

There reads to me an abusive dynamic to your behaviour toward your wife albeit veiled in your attempts at reconciliation. This has been raised before here, and by your wife.

I was struck when reading your posts, that it could be your wife posting on here for support about her situation, because your actions are most definitely keeping the impasse between you well and truly stuck.

Sweetheart, please could you explain this further.
I ask you, what would be my W's incentive to 'push' divorce through and sell our family home if she were to be said home with the kids, and I was not? In my mind that would create the mother of all impasses. Which part of my letter did you feel was abusive? I am keen to learn here.

[empath]

You are operating with the belief that the two of you will work this out between you (which means she will trust your offer), the two of you will be congenial and fluid co-parents, and maybe she will just see the light and decide to rededicate herself to the marriage.

As I understand it, Enabler W chose the mediation route rather than using the courts to gain the divorce. Mediation requires talking through the separation of lives. As I'm sure that many of us would agree, it is very difficult to come to mutual agreements with folks who have bpd traits - usually these cases end up in the court system as high conflict cases.

My suggestion is to break the agreement down into very small pieces - the big picture is going to be overwhelming. Be very concrete and specific about what you want without a lot of extra explanation which will be overwhelming, too.

My h has the idea that we can be congenial and collaborate through a divorce process, too. When he moved out 2 years ago, it was because he was overwhelmed and having a difficult time regulating his emotions. He wanted a divorce to happen quickly because he was overwhelmed. As I look back on the conversation that we had the evening before he made the decision to move out, I recognize that talking in depth about the marriage and my desires was likely NOT a good thing, even though he wanted to talk about it. He was not able to hear what I said accurately due to some of the other changes that were happening in his life.

When she says she's overwhelmed, believe her.

The boundary of moving out is the easiest one to do. Again, be concrete and specific in small steps.

[Enabler]

Fortunately the mediator is very patient and definitely tries to break down decisions into small choices. That all said, one needs to have a vision of where one wants to be in the future and what that looks like.

My W does not want a full agreement by the end of the month. That is a clear misunderstanding. She wants progress and another meeting with financial mediator. Given her urgency let’s hope she is better prepared to come up with a deal this time.

[Skip]

Given her urgency let’s hope she is better prepared to come up with a deal this time.

Why weren't you prepared to come up with a deal last time?

Weren't you in the same place?

Are you prepared to show the deal you posted here?

[GaGrl]

You are at a point where the sequence of topics to be negotiated becomes important.

First, settle the custody. Based on that, other topics start falling into place...schedules, child support, housing needs. Only when everything about the children is settled should you tackle the overall financial settlement.

[Enabler]

I was prepared and am prepared.

If I’d had laid anything on the table there and then she would have considered it in the same way she considers everything to do with me... a do over.

She has to come to this deal on her own with the help of the mediator.

[formflier]

She has to come to this deal on her own with the help of the mediator.

Hmm...I don't think this is realistic?  

I think she could likely get most of a deal or a broad outline, but lets just say she's not a detail person.  (is that fair to say?)

Let's also say you are a detail person.  (again..fair assessment?)

I think you need to have a deal "in your pocket" that you would be happy to sign.  I also think it's important for her to make first moves and I also think you need to be prepared to play the role of "finisher".

I keep thinking about the advice/warning many people are giving you here that you need to "finish" this early, rather than letting it fester.

The longer you guys keep going to the "deal table" and leaving without a deal, the higher the chances that she will get frustrated and do something odd.

Do you guys have a mediation scheduled before her deadline that she will move out?

If not, I think you should move whatever heaven and earth needs to be moved to have that mediation session.

You really don't want her moving out without any structure at all.    I can't imagine anything good coming from that.

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

Her schedule is that we see the mediator before the end of Feb, not sure where this concept that she wants the deal done by the end of Feb has come from.

So my thoughts are that I will produce some charts and graphs to illustrate where I think we should be aiming. These charts will illustrate how ‘ the deal’ would be fair and allow everyone to get something like what they want... and what the kids want which is two happy parents.

Starting point is that there is a decent amount of money around, more than “needs basis” that her lawyer has referred to. The fact is that there is enough money for her to be able to buy a ‘more than needs’ house for her and the kids outright, no mortgage. If she chooses to get a small mortgage then she can and that would give her a bigger house. There is also enough money that I can buy a similar house with a pretty chunky mortgage with a decent down payment.

There is enough income such that she would likely have about 3-3.5k disposable income a month even without spousal payments. That’s hardly “needs basis” when considering she has no mortgage costs if she chooses.

I think she is amenable to the idea that in 11yrs time we will no longer share “children”, they will be adults. She understands that it is unreasonable to keep me liable past this point, and that moving towards this point she needs to move towards a position of personal financial responsibility.

The tools to illustrate a path towards a deal have to be carefully picked to ensure that I’m not telling her what’s what and what the deal is, else that will be rejected.

She’s just sent an email to the legal mediator telling him what happened in the child T appointment and shared her and my emails. Firstly she got the impression that rather than nesting or 50/50 parenting being an interim solution until the divorce and house sale is finalised, she believes that’s me lurching towards this full time... which hasn’t been decided or discussed formally. She also says that the child T said that we should both be free from emotions before communicating with the kids what is happening... I can’t rationalise how she expects to move out of the house or I move out of the house without communicating fully what is happening. I think there are some crossed wires there and what the T actually said was that you can’t co-parent whilst still full of the emotions of the relationship hurt, which is on a sheet she sent through. The T said directly to me “Enabler, you have a choice, you have to own that choice and communicate it to the children as just that, YOUR CHOICE”. I accept that.

[empath]

So my thoughts are that I will produce some charts and graphs to illustrate where I think we should be aiming. These charts will illustrate how ‘ the deal’ would be fair and allow everyone to get something like what they want... and what the kids want which is two happy parents.

Charts and graphs would be "big picture" ideas and proofs which as I said before, will likely be more overwhelming to Enabler W. The future planning is overwhelming to her. One piece at a time, in small bits. Break it down. Communicate on her level.

I think there are some crossed wires there and what the T actually said was that you can’t co-parent whilst still full of the emotions of the relationship hurt, which is on a sheet she sent through.

The crossed wires indicate that she is feeling overwhelmed right now.