My son hates me when he's with his mother.

[Newyoungfather]

Hello Everyone,
I have been picking up on a few actions from my son recently.  When my son is in my custody he loves me, always by my side, we laugh together, snuggle and play together.  When he's with his mom and I want to talk on the phone with him he's rude tells me that I am bad and doesn't want to talk to me.  At custody pick ups he tells me he doesn't want to go with me and acts out however when we arrive back at my house, his actions switch to loving me.  I talked with a few people and they think that child alienation is still going on.  What does everyone think?

[Turkish]

Remind us again how old he is?  How long does it take for him to return to baseline with you, and what do you do to handle it?

[Newyoungfather]

My son is 4 years old, it takes perhaps on average a half of day with him being with me to switch his emotions.

[ForeverDad]

I've heard that this period of adjustment is a time of transition.  Essentially the overwhelming pressuring parent is perceived by the less powerful child in the face of that pressure as the one to be pleased.

And yes, it probably is a form of alienation.  The difficulty is how to get the professionals to recognize it as such.  Too often the bar is set so high that it's not seen as actionable.  Often the ex knows how to mask it, blame shift it onto you as causing it, and knows how to not quite go over that red line the professionals set, so to speak.

I made a post about this years ago, here is a portion of that post:

Have you read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak?  He related a story where a grandparent was being alienated.  The little girl, about 5 years old, found a novel way to sneak a clue to the grandparent.  She hugged and whispered, "whatever I say, I mean the opposite."  Then she pulled away and started yelling at grandparent, all to get out of a tight spot with her disordered parent.

Another example:  A member here, david, reported how he handled his boys arriving claiming he was a bad dad and dangerous.  So he acted like a monster and grinning chased them around.  They loved the 'game' and had a great time.  That was how he defused the Blaming, he turned it into a game of sorts.

[worriedStepmom]

The biggest help for him is counseling.  When you get that started, S will have an advocate in his corner - a neutral person to help him trust his emotions.

When/if the counselor figures out what is going on at mom's, they may then help provide good evidence for you for the next time you need to go back to court.

[Newyoungfather]

@foreverdad, yes I have the book divorce poison but I haven't read too in deep yet.
We tried taking my son to a therapist but exbpd decided to go behind everyone'ss back and played the victim, long story short it cost me thousands of dollars, the top child custody court evaluator slammed exbpd extremely hard and stuck up for me, however manipulating a therapist falls on the incompetence of the therapist not the disorder BPD/NPD, she got a free pass even though she lied to therapist.

[zachira]

You must take the time to read "Divorce Poison" ASAP. You are risking getting to the point that your child no longer wants anything to do with you. "Divorce Poison" talks about how a child can be brainwashed to hate a parent they actually love and how to take steps to prevent that.

[livednlearned]

Do you address with him how it feels when he says hurtful things to you?

If so, how does he respond?

[Newyoungfather]

Yes I do address these items, I say that it hurtful and my feelings are hurt, he will explain that his mom tells him this.

[livednlearned]

What do you say when he tells you this?

The key to helping him work out his true emotional reality and not the one she’s imposing on him is to help him pay attention to, learn, and name or label his feelings.

“How did you feel when mommy said that?” Is one way for him to start doing the work of defining his emotions. He cannot just focus on how his words hurt you, altho there is obviously significance with that too.

It’s the focus on his emerging feelings about this painful behavior that will help him deflect some of the alienation.

It’s hard for us as parents but we can’t be rushing in with our feelings when this stuff is going on much as we want to.

[Turkish]

I agree. At this age especially, focus away from your own feelings (his mom is already failing in that). Focus on him and how he feels.  Don't take it personally though that is hard not to. 

"Ok, Little Buddy. [He confesses why] How do you feel about that?"

[mpacific]

Are your transitions with the mom around? I'd recommend somewhere neutral or school where he doesn't have that lingering of mom is watching, I'm told this is bad etc.  I'd bet if it were a pick up at school/daycare he'd be his regular self and happy to see you.