Longterm Planning Divorce of BPD Husband

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello,

I found the forum after searching for advice about divorcing a spouse with BPD.  I have been...I can only say "burnt out" in my marriage for about 5 years now and I am ready to move on.  I am afraid because I don't want our daughter, who is in her "tween" years to be with her father out of my presence for visitation.  That thought has kept me from filing for a divorce from my husband over these years.  I am afraid he will be emotionally abusive towards her without intending to be. 

I'll start with I love my husband.  I also do know that he loves me deeply and I understand that his condition stems from some extreme fears and anxiety on his part.  We have been through marriage counseling where the pscyhologist brought up the fact that my husband has the traits of someone suffering from borderline personality disorder.  We went through 12 weeks of sessions about 4 years ago.  The psychologist at the time, in front of my husband, shared that I should seriously consider divorcing him because he will never change nor consider my perspective.  That I can choose to stay but that I should face reality in that he will never change or treat me in a way that I feel I should be treated. 

My husband does not believe that "psychology" exist.  So there is no hope that he will seek help for his condition.  The reality of the situation after our sessions set in on me in that at that time we had 2 minor children (our oldest is now legally an adult but still lives with us).  I have always known my husband has a tendency toward being paranoid.  He also has always had, what I felt some delusions about what he "thinks" that I think - meaning he has always had this idea in his head that I am thinking about doing something to him. He basically has me framed in his mind as some sort of enemy/nemesis. 

We have been together now almost 20 years and married for 13 years.  Over the past two years he has gotten worse in his delusions as noted above where he is constantly accusing me of lying to him.  He has started accusing our youngest child of being a liar as well over the same sorts of things that I do (he claims he doesn't understand something we are explaining to him so we change the words to make it more clear, then he'll claim that we said something else so are lying to him and loudly/aggressively demand that we admit we are lying).  I typically just admit that I'm lying and shut down the situation because I know it is his delusions and I feel bad for him over it.  But it brings out youngest to tears and him potentially doing this to our child without me has driven me to continue to be with him. 

But I feel very burnt out and my own health is suffering over the stress of dealing with him.  I decided last year to start planning for a divorce.  I handle all our finances so have been eliminating all debt.  I also want to sell some of our investment properties and set up accounts for he and I so that everything will be equally divided in regards to money and then file. 

I wanted some advice on what I can expect from filing for divorce.  My husband has never been violent with me, just loud and aggressive.  I have always been able to basically push him into a silent treatment sort of phrase by just ignoring his paranoia and delusions or telling him that I'm not engaging with him due to XYZ.  He has always accepted this and just stopped talking to me for a while then bringing it back up maybe 6 months down the line.  Like a lot of BPD sufferers, he is not a "bad" guy and most of the time he is a good husband.  But he has been getting worse and worse and I feel I am wasting my life trying to prove to a man I love that I actually love him and am not his enemy.  It seems ridiculous to me to continue to do this.  But I know because of his condition that this may push him over the edge so wanted to see if anyone had any advice for this sort of situation.  I hope to sell the investment properties in the next couple of years so that I can file for divorce by the time our youngest is starting high school.  Advice about explaining all this sort of thing to children would be appreciated as well if there is any to give.

Thanks

[DeeplyRooted 79]

Hello,

I found the forum after searching for advice about divorcing a spouse with BPD.  I have been...I can only say "burnt out" in my marriage for about 5 years now and I am ready to move on.  I am afraid because I don't want our daughter, who is in her "tween" years to be with her father out of my presence for visitation.  That thought has kept me from filing for a divorce from my husband over these years.  I am afraid he will be emotionally abusive towards her without intending to be. 

I'll start with I love my husband.  I also do know that he loves me deeply and I understand that his condition stems from some extreme fears and anxiety on his part.  We have been through marriage counseling where the pscyhologist brought up the fact that my husband has the traits of someone suffering from borderline personality disorder.  We went through 12 weeks of sessions about 4 years ago.  The psychologist at the time, in front of my husband, shared that I should seriously consider divorcing him because he will never change nor consider my perspective.  That I can choose to stay but that I should face reality in that he will never change or treat me in a way that I feel I should be treated. 

My husband does not believe that "psychology" exist.  So there is no hope that he will seek help for his condition.  The reality of the situation after our sessions set in on me in that at that time we had 2 minor children (our oldest is now legally an adult but still lives with us).  I have always known my husband has a tendency toward being paranoid.  He also has always had, what I felt some delusions about what he "thinks" that I think - meaning he has always had this idea in his head that I am thinking about doing something to him. He basically has me framed in his mind as some sort of enemy/nemesis. 

We have been together now almost 20 years and married for 13 years.  Over the past two years he has gotten worse in his delusions as noted above where he is constantly accusing me of lying to him.  He has started accusing our youngest child of being a liar as well over the same sorts of things that I do (he claims he doesn't understand something we are explaining to him so we change the words to make it more clear, then he'll claim that we said something else so are lying to him and loudly/aggressively demand that we admit we are lying).  I typically just admit that I'm lying and shut down the situation because I know it is his delusions and I feel bad for him over it.  But it brings out youngest to tears and him potentially doing this to our child without me has driven me to continue to be with him. 

But I feel very burnt out and my own health is suffering over the stress of dealing with him.  I decided last year to start planning for a divorce.  I handle all our finances so have been eliminating all debt.  I also want to sell some of our investment properties and set up accounts for he and I so that everything will be equally divided in regards to money and then file. 

I wanted some advice on what I can expect from filing for divorce.  My husband has never been violent with me, just loud and aggressive.  I have always been able to basically push him into a silent treatment sort of phrase by just ignoring his paranoia and delusions or telling him that I'm not engaging with him due to XYZ.  He has always accepted this and just stopped talking to me for a while then bringing it back up maybe 6 months down the line.  Like a lot of BPD sufferers, he is not a "bad" guy and most of the time he is a good husband.  But he has been getting worse and worse and I feel I am wasting my life trying to prove to a man I love that I actually love him and am not his enemy.  It seems ridiculous to me to continue to do this.  But I know because of his condition that this may push him over the edge so wanted to see if anyone had any advice for this sort of situation.  I hope to sell the investment properties in the next couple of years so that I can file for divorce by the time our youngest is starting high school.  Advice about explaining all this sort of thing to children would be appreciated as well if there is any to give.

Thanks

[DeeplyRooted 79]

Will also note I am gainfully employed.  I make more money than my husband.  I set up a separate/my name only savings account that he does not have access to in case he decides to try to control me by taking all the money out of our shared/joint account (he has done things like this in the past and I don't put it by him to do it again). 

I do want to stay in the house we currently live in and want him to leave.  I don't want child support or anything from him. 

So there is not a lot of items for him to go into a fit about from my view but I know him and know that he takes the most minute thing to set himself off into a delusion and paranoid sort of state. 

I don't know if there is anything I can or should do with the courts to try to limit his interactions with out daughter following the divorce.  Since she will be a teenager by that time, I'm hoping that her feelings would be taken into effect in regards to a visitation schedule.  She loves her dad but even when I go on trips, she doesn't like to be alone much with him because of his tendency to want to argue/battle about everything. 

[worriedStepmom]

Hi DeeplyRooted.  Welcome to BPDFamily.  You'll find a lot of support on this board, from people who've already walked this path.  There's a lot of value in preparation.  We can help you with some of that.

Have you talked to a lawyer yet, to find out your legal options?  Consulting with someone now doesn't mean you have to immediately file for divorce, but it's a great opportunity to find out what to expect.  What's considered "normal" for an asset split in your state?  How likely is it to have your husband removed from the house during the divorce proceedings?  What does custody "normally" look like, and what evidence would you need to show to get a different arrangement?

Have you thought about what type of custody schedule would work best for your daughter?  It's unlikely the courts will take all visitation away from him, and it's unlikely that a traditional schedule would be best for her, but there is a lot of flexibility between those two options.  For example, my SD12's uBPDmother doesn't function well if she parents too many days in a row, so we limited that.

How do you think your husband will react when he learns that you want a divorce and primary custody?  There seem to be a few types here - those who are terrified of court and after a few weeks/months of meltdowns will give in (that's my SD's mom), those who immediately split their ex black and take extreme measures like filing false claims or attempting to alienate the children, and a kind of middle ground who alternately stall and melt down and give in at the very last minute. 

It's going to be an ordeal, for you and for your kids.  Have you considered therapy for any of you?  This may especially help your daughter, who is going to have to spend some time with her dad.  She'll need to learn how to set strong boundaries and how to separate his delusions and fears from her own experience of things.

[ForeverDad]

I too encourage the children get counseling.  It's okay whether they choose the same one or different ones.  The counselors can communicate with each other or even with your counselor.  The key is to find counselors who are experienced with acting-out disorders, sadly some are a bit clueless.  They also can help the children build strong boundaries of behavior.

Have you read Henry Cloud's Boundaries?

Boundaries are for you, not your spouse.  You already know you can't tell spouse what to do or not do.  You can't force spouse to do or not do something, your power is in your response.  However, what can and does work (though there are limits) is something like this... .
"If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."

Examples:
If you start blocking me from our kids... .
... .then I will enforce the parenting schedule, in court if that's what it takes.
If you want extra time for ___... .
... .then I may allow it but with a trade for equivalent time for ___.

When done right "if... .then... ." is powerful.  It took me years to figure how to make boundaries such as these.

Oh, and since this would be a change to your behavior pattern, expect spouse to flame out with extinction bursts in attempts to make you retreat back into prior compliant, appeasing actions.  Spouse may never fully accept that you will run your own life, but in time the boundaries will work for you better than you expect.

Many here did delay ending their relationships hoping to find the right time.  Too often there was never a right time and some regretted not going ahead and just preparing and doing it sooner.  Creating a safe space for the kids sooner where they had stability and love was more important than not rocking the boat.

I noticed that you had a concern your younger daughter might be alone with dad when he was ranting and berating.  Consider an alternate perspective, that she doesn't have a safe space away from that pressure.  And there no doubt are even now times when she's alone with dad.  Do you see that waiting more years is not necessarily better than making the break sooner?

From another of my prior posts:

Frankly, your daughter is a minor and cannot make decisions for herself independent of parents until she is an adult.  Yes, in many states the court will consider a teenager's wishes.  That's called an in camera interview, but 11 is a young age for that.

My son was 11 when my ex's lawyer filed for an in camera interview with the Guardian ad Litem (GAL, son's lawyer) and magistrate.  I already had custody and was in court to get majority time.  The court's decision never cited anything he said but did state that son was more comfortable talking about me, with better eye contact.  That's what meant more to these professionals, not the words but the less obvious clues.

People with BPD (pwBPD) are generally inconsistent in their behaviors, predictably so.  If you have concerns about dad berating the youngest, you can seek an order where daughter has the ability to contact you or big sister and cut short a scheduled visit if/when that happens.  Some here have gotten orders specifying shorter scheduled visits, even day visits only.

What is especially helpful is to document the discord.  Journals or calendars supported by emails, texts, etc.  Courts largely ignore vague claims of "he always..." or "she always..." as hearsay but if you have details of specific incidents written in a log then the court is more likely to sit up and take that into account.

[MeandThee29]

A local attorney is going to be your best bet as to how they are going to view your custody concerns. In my area, your attorney would probably order a full psychological eval of you both because a judge will want to see that before agreeing that your husband should not have custody. Here, they are very reluctant to cut off one parent entirely. If he does get some custody, you need to carefully document everything that happens in case you have to go to court again, which is probable in my area if you have concerns. It rare to cut off one parent in the first round.

You can expect a mess. Maybe not, but probably a mess. Generally if the marriage was difficult, the divorce process is even worse in these cases. Mine was a negotiated settlement (no mediation, no court) with no custody issues, and it was still very disordered and difficult. My attorney called my case "memorable and unprecedented" at signing. What should have taken a few months took most of a year. You want someone very experienced who has good relationships with other attorneys in your area. If the attorneys get along, some of the difficulty is taken out of the process. You need all the help you can get.

I keyed on how hard you believe this is on you. If you are like me, you won't really know how hard it was on you until you are separated, and then you will see more aspects of how hard it was on you after the divorce is final. You kids may feel the same. Even if your younger one is having to spend time with her father, having you away from him and having peace when she is with you may be a positive for her. There's something called "emotional custody" where kids rely more on and are much more free with one parent than the other. If they have one healthy parent, that may be enough.

As far as explaining to kids, they know that something is very wrong. You don't have to go into details. But be honest when his behavior hurts them by saying something like, "It is isn't right that Dad did X. How can you cope with that if he does that again?" You want them to problem-solve for themselves.

And yes, they should go to their own counsellors and be free to discuss what they want there. That is essential.  

[Sluggo]

Deeply rooted,

I have 7 kids.  It was more difficult for the older ones... 16 and 14 at time.  They witnessed years of me allowing wife to berate me.  They had and still have little contact with me after a full frontal assault of alienation.  Now over 18, do not want a relationship with me. 

My 16 yr old (11 at divorce) just told a CPS social worker who put in her report...that daughter no longer feels she has to walk on egg shells or feel paranoid in the house anymore (when living with me) .  Kids started full custody with me 9 months ago. 

The younger ones 2, 5, and 7 didnt skip a beat.  Also, they see me as a parent and not a 'loser' as exwife would describe me in front of the kids often.  They were too young to remember those degradation. 

I agree with Forever Dad, they are probably with your spouse alone a lot of time now.  If you were like me, I spent most of my time trying to keep peace and manage bpdwife's emotions.  . 

Since divorcing, now having my own space and emotional space, I can set a loving tone in the house.  I am much happier and fun to be a parent again.   The divorce was absolute hell.  It took about 3 years and a lot of money.  However, I wonder if I could still have  relationship with older kids if I had done it sooner. 

I relate how things get worse...
I was married 18 years.  At first the explosions only happened a few times a year, then as time went on it got worse and worse.  At the end explosions would happen daily.  Like being at a wave pool at the waves get closer and closer together until it is hard to stay afloat. 

Sluggo

[RolandOfEld]

Hi DeeplyRooted79, I am in a similar situation of planning for divorce with children in the mix and trying to avoid any dangerous fallout.

For now I'll just share from one perspective - the children - as that is what has mostly held me up. I have been too afraid of letting the children see some ugly scenes to move forward. My counselor's recent suggestion to me on this part had several layers:

- We can't always avoid letting kids see or experience bad things. But what we can do is be very honest with them about it so that they can understand. Though my children are still young, the counselor advised me to explain to them that mama is "sick". It sounds like your daughter is older so the narrative would be a bit different, but same basic idea. 
- I have grown stronger through this and it will make my children strong, too. It's terrible they have to go through it but if we give them one parent who is strong, rational, and loving, they can get through.
- By staying and suffering I am hurting the children and their future. 

Do you feel any of the above makes sense or relates?

~Roland

[livednlearned]

Bill Eddy (author of Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse) suggests there are three kinds of BPD:

*generally cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, dangerous

Dangerous would include substance abuse, domestic violence, history or threats of making false allegations, etc.

Eddy also talks about the difference between BPD and high-conflict personalities (HCPs). Many of us on this board divorced HCPs, which Eddy defines as someone who recruits negative advocates, has a target of blame (usually us), is a persuasive blamer, and has a personality disorder of some type.

How do you think your H will respond when a) you tell him you want a divorce and b) you serve him the separation/divorce papers?

That might help us think more specifically about your circumstances.

It does sound like an important next step to consult with an attorney. Where I live, it's usually a hundred dollars or so for 30 minutes and you can ask questions to find out how things work where you live. Is that something you've done already, or if not, feel comfortable doing?

[ForeverDad]

Ponder what your children would feel in a better environment, at least part of the time.  Despite their natural love for a parent, combined with being used to the way things are, once things are better might they make a comment like these?

He did say to me months ago, "I wish you had protected me sooner." It is both a statement of love and trust "you did protect me" and disappointment "not soon enough."

Greetings.  My story is strewn across these boards, so I won't go too deep into history.  I had been holding things together in my marriage, mostly to stay present in my kids' lives.  I think I have overcome all the ambivalence, and I believe this marriage has to end eventually.  I am now thinking that sooner is better.  I'm getting what I think are health issues, mental and emotional, and not getting stronger - just getting older from my situation of enduring this marriage...

Uncertainty has keep me paralyzed.  Patience and endurance has kept me steady.  Kids have kept me motivated to put up with this married life.

Not to forget, my wife has several good traits, which make it a difficult situation to leave with a clear case for divorce.  However, she also has some fierce traits (she's effectively alienated my D18 against me, and she's had no contact for over two years).  Which makes it hard to decide to divorce so that I don't release the kraken of vengeful spouses.

A member's own comments about her FOO (family of origin) during her youth as an older sister:

My verbally abusive dad moved out when I was 17.   My mother wanted to save the marriage and have an intact family for us kids.  Even decades later, I'm pretty sure she has no idea how much I interfered after that to make sure their divorce went through.  My goal was to keep him out of the house; even though I was soon to go away to college, my little sister was stuck and I wanted to protect her.

A thought about your conversations on this topic with your children, should you have them...  You and the children have a right to confidentiality.  Prematurely sharing this sort of information with the disordered parent could make things more complicated for the long term.  No one needs to 'confess' pondering these things to an abusive or berating parent.  Remember the three factors of the FOG we typically experience — Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  This is now time to look to the future, not the past.

[DeeplyRooted 79]

Thank you for all the replies.  Seeking advice from a lawyer right now is a good idea.  I honestly have been thinking of just going ahead and doing it as soon as possible but I do want to wait until we sell the rental property we own out of state.  It is the bulk of our net worth as a couple and that leads me to how he will resond. 

I honestly don't know.  I mostly think he won't believe I'm doing it.  He is also very anxious and I do feel that once he knows I'm serious that he will free fall.  He has never been physically aggressive with me or our children.  But he is VERY erratic in his behavior and so I can never tell how he will respond.  I am kind of afraid of what his reaction will be because he is not predictive in that way.  Typically when I upset him (and note I don't do anything really to upset him - if I just tell him about my day and use a word he doesn't like he will get upset) he just gets angry.  I now rarely engage with him when he does this and will just say "nevermind" and that I'm not going to argue with him.  He knows that I feel he suffers from BPD and paranoia/delusions and I've discussed with him before that I am not going to spend the second half of my life without the peace I want for me and our daughter in particular.  When I've discussed this with him (but it has been some years but he knows I am not happy in our marriage and am planning on divorcing him in the future) he just leaves the house and gives me silent treatment for about 2-4 weeks.  Honestly I enjoy these times as I feel relaxed. 

On our daughter, she  rarely spends any time with him alone at all right now.  We live in a medium sized city without much traffic.  He picks her up from my mom's house about 5pm typically Mon-Friday.  Nearly everyday, after dropping her off at home he leaves her with her older brother and goes to his friend's house or to the bar to drink.  He does abuse alcohol and cannabis but nothing hardcore.  But he does have some health issues associated with his alcohol abuse. 

I've shared with both our son who is 18 an our daughter who is 11 that their dad has some mental health issues.  I don't personally view mental health issues as "bad" in a way so when this was explained to them, I didn't frame him in a bad way.  I see mental health issues the same as I do chronic physical health issues or autoimmune disorders - that they can be managed with care, but their dad refuses care.  I've had to educate them on this because of their dad's rages and his constant criticisms and rants about what "words" he wants them to use when he converses with them.  He can be relentless with these discourses and they typically happen when I'm around and I get him to target me versus the children and I diffuse the situation and he leaves, as I described above and does the silent treatment.  He's done silent treatment with them as well.  Our son is used to him but is frustrated by his dad but he knows he has mental health issues that dad refuses to address.  Our daughter knows this as well but he scares her, I think because he is bigger than her.  Our son is 6'3" and 220lbs and is bigger than his dad and has been for a while.  She is obviously smaller and he will literally get in her face and try to "make" her "admit" that she is a liar.  He has done this as well in front of my mom when he was picking her up and my mom has stepped in as well so I had to share his issues with her too, but she is not as  understanding and says it takes all her strength not to hit him when he raises his voice at her grandchild. 

Your suggestions are great in regards to counseling to try to get her to set boundaries herself. 

[DeeplyRooted 79]

I also don't think he will go to great lengths to try to destroy my character.  Honestly, there is nothing for him to base it on.  As I noted, I recognized rather early in our relationship that he has issues.  Because his rants and rages used to be so infrequent, I made excuses for him based on me believing he had some mental health issues.  He has some pretty severe anxiety, which I do believe impacts his behavior.  He also had a very traumatic upbringing and experienced a lot of abuse and neglect.  So I feel bad for planning on putting him through more trauma but I'm at the point where it is either him or me and the kids, especially our daughter.  His abuse was mostly allowed by his mother and he has a very negative view of all women, except me, he says.  He often comments on how our daughter has traits of women he doesn't like and I worry with her entering her teen years that it will heavily impact her self view/self esteem of herself as a young lady. 

But I have nothing in my background he can use against me.  His family loves me and they know he has issues as well.  He is the same with his family and friends as he is with me, but not as ranting with friends.  We live in my hometown so I have a lot of support here.  I honestly feel when we divorce that he'll move back to his hometown because he often complains of not having any friends here.  But I also know that one of his main gripes in life is that his own father abandoned him and he has said he'd never do that to his kids so he may stick around. 

I do think he will dig into staying in the house with me.  If it comes to it, I'd be willing to let him have it.  Mostly I think he'd try to keep me from getting my half of the rental property we own out of state.  We stand to gain about $200k with the sell of that property and I plan on putting it into specific accounts for him and our children upon the sale.  I feel if I file or even hint at divorcing him before that occurs that he'd try to take control of that situation and disallow the sell.  So the main thing I'm waiting on is to sell the house.  I'm kind of peeved about this covid outbreak for that reason as the economic fall out will hit the real estate market and I was planning on selling that property by June this year. 

On other advice, do you all feel there are certain things I should discuss with attorneys about divorcing a person with BPD.  I read some of the info here but I do want someone who knows about how erratic they can be.  I  hope that my husband will just give in and go into a depression of sorts and let things be which is what he usually does when he's disappointed in something for a while, but he also is very intelligent and he works in the legal field and he may want to fight me.  I just don't know what to expect. 

[DeeplyRooted 79]

Note on the rental property sell that we have some tax deferred accounts through our jobs that allow us to put in up to $25k annually in them.  I've opened one for myself and for him over the past 6 months and wanted to put a total of $50k in both of our accounts.  Those accounts don't have a penalty for withdrawal of the funds like a 401k so if it comes to it, I can use that money to buy a new place to live or he can as well, which is why I wouldn't want to fight over the house I live in now.  The rest I will put into IRAs for the kids and I don't think there is a way that he can seriously complain about splitting the proceeds between all 4 of us, but who knows. 

He doesn't like the house we live in because it is "old" - we bought it very cheap, about $10k and put some work into it so we don't have a mortgage or anything (I try to practice FIRE techniques of living beneath ones means).  I handle all our financial accounts, he honestly knows nothing about any of our finances.  I have been planning financially for this for about the last year by paying off debts and improving both of credit scores. 

Reading all your comments are making me feel it would be better on my daughter to go ahead and do the split as soon as we can.  The reasoning of having a safe place for her to relax outside of visits with dad is a comforting thing to see.  I also like the idea to put into an agreement the ability for her to call me to get her if/when dad is berating her. 

I will go and meet with some attorneys.  I'd honestly like to do it without attorneys, but I don't think that will be possible.  I'll also look into a therapist for my daughter.  Thanks so much. 

[DeeplyRooted 79]

And Sluggo what you described about it getting worse is exactly what's happening.  This was very infrequent when we were first together.  Maybe he'd have a rant about something 2-3 times a year. 

Now it literally is everyday when he is not silent treating me.  I look forward to silent treatment now and to me it is ridiculous for me to stay.  There is so much pressure in my view of having an "in tact" family but I honestly don't feel we have an in tact family as is.  He gets angry at me or the kids everyday and he is literally not a presence at all in the house much at all.  He spends most of his time with friends, literally over their house watching TV.  That used to bother me, but now it doesn't and it bothers me more when he is here. 

This self isolation due to covid has really shown me that I should have left years ago.  He did have an affair 10 years ago, around the time our daughter was born.  I only stayed with him because I didn't want to break up the family and I worked to forgive him and did even though it took years.  Now I regret that decision and feel it would have been easier to break off from him back then versus now that the kids are older. 

Prior to coming back to read your responses, I was thinking it would be best to just break it off prior to my daughter starting high school so that if she does have a hard time for a year or two in school that it won't have much of an effect on grades /experiences that are more memorable in high school. 

[RolandOfEld]

He is also very anxious and I do feel that once he knows I'm serious that he will free fall.  He has never been physically aggressive with me or our children.  But he is VERY erratic in his behavior and so I can never tell how he will respond.  I am kind of afraid of what his reaction will be because he is not predictive in that way. 

I am feeling the exact same thing right now. My wife has become violent when I make overtures towards separation or moving out and I'm not sure if she would give it up at grabbing me or if we would go into Fatal Attractions territory when I move out. What I did yesterday was to write up a detailed contingency plan, thinking out every possibility I could based on her past behavior, and then how I would respond in each case. I then listed out the people whose help I would need beneath each possibility and shared this document out to my support network. (I also made sure to have my local police department number on the main screen of my phone! )

Of course, we cannot be ready for every possibility and it will be an ugly battle no matter what. But if we are prepared we can see our way through.

Hope this helps.

~Roland

[worriedStepmom]

A lawyer should be able to advise you on what a divorce would mean if you have property in another state.   You might not have to sell it first or might be able to do some other exchanges in the finances so he gets that and you get an equivalent amount of funds out of other accounts.  State laws vary a lot on that (I live in a community property state, which is a lot simpler).

If you husband has alcohol issues, you DEFINITELY want this to be noted in a custody decree.  He shouldn't be around your daughter if he's impaired.  Now is a good time to be documenting his drinking and the time he spends with your daughter (and how he spends it).  You can use a calendar or a journal, and each day write down what interactions he has with D, and whether or not he's drunk.  I have two friends who have it in their custody agreement that neither party can drink alcohol within 24 hours of having their kids.   One required supervised visitation with the dad, for a while, to make sure he wasn't drinking around the child.

Just so you can be prepared, disparagement doesn't need a logical reason.  My H's uBPDexw decided a few years after they divorced that he was an abusive husband.  This is categorically not true.  They divorced 11 years ago, and she still tells all kinds of people that he abused her.  Most don't believe her.  She also spent a lot of time disparaging H and I (and H's parents and SD's therapist) to SD - she'd tell SD that we were trying to steal SD away and we hated mom and all kinds of nonsense.  Our latest custody agreement specifically forbids mom from making those kinds of comments.

H's lawyer had experience dealing with high conflict cases.  I still ended up suggesting a lot of changes to the proposal to deal with issues specific to the way his ex behaves.  We called out specific behavior and added a lot of consequences for noncompliance.  And then, finally, things got better

You are doing a great job starting your planning!

[livednlearned]

do you all feel there are certain things I should discuss with attorneys about divorcing a person with BPD.  I read some of the info here but I do want someone who knows about how erratic they can be.  I  hope that my husband will just give in and go into a depression of sorts and let things be which is what he usually does when he's disappointed in something for a while, but he also is very intelligent and he works in the legal field and he may want to fight me.  I just don't know what to expect.  

If you google "parental alienation" or "high conflict divorce" for your area, you're likely to find lawyers who understand BPD. You may want to talk to two or three attorneys, not just to eliminate them as possibilities for your H to use, but to get an idea of how different lawyers would advise you in terms of strategy and tactics to reach your goals.

This is a good article describing what characteristics to look for in an attorney dealing with a high-conflict divorce, and is based on Eddy's work.

At a minimum, your ex will likely engage in stonewalling and obstruction. It's amazing how expensive a person with BPD can make our cases just through stonewalling and obstruction alone. If you end up thinking to yourself, "I'll just give him x," you might want to reconsider. I gave my ex the house and it cost me money hiring a real estate attorney and four trips to court just to gift away the house. Your H sounds like he will be duck to water when it comes to arguing over little things in court, meanwhile not doing what he needed to do  

At the worst, it sounds like your H has a high degree of paranoia/delusions even when things are relatively stable, so he may slide toward psychosis under stress. I fully believe psychosis is a helpful way for a disturbed person to get the help and attention they need, but it can also be unnerving to go through it if you're not accustomed to the ride-a-long that goes with it.

You sound really smart and thoughtful about how to leave your marriage. I planned my divorce for a year and while things didn't go exactly as planned, I'm grateful I had a plan in place so that when things reached the boiling point I could move quickly and be 10 steps ahead.

You may feel stuck right now given the virus/economy, and that's a decision only you can make. As you weigh your options, there is still a lot you can do to help your daughter in particular. Bill Eddy has a second book called Don't Alienate the Kids which is more about raising emotionally resilient kids when one parent has BPD. It was a game changer for me when it came to my relationship with (now) S18. My kid has lingering trauma from his dad, and will probably struggle his whole life with the bitterness he feels about not having his father show up as a functioning parent, but that kid knows exactly who he is and can read people better than most adults I know.

[MeandThee29]

It sounds like you're doing a great job of considering all of the issues.

I'm a planner too and thought that I pretty much knew how it was going to go. My ex said he would be civil and fair. It should have taken a few months. It didn't go that way although apparently he kept telling his lawyer how wonderful he was being to me. His lawyer raged about how crazy that was.

Both lawyers commented repeatedly how over-the-top it all went. About six months in, I learned to just let it go and trust mine. Whatever happened, he knew what to do, and it would eventually end. Thankfully he already had a good relationship with my ex's lawyer, and they worked very well together. His wanted to quit but stayed in it out of respect for mine.

But my agreement has all kinds of unenforceable requirements and contradictions in it because if I had fought those, it would have taken another year. None of them have any long-term impact at all. At one point he was trying to prove adultery, and I had a P.I. watching my house and following me for several weeks. That made me so angry but did give me a good laugh with my attorney when I told him. I did come out with what I wanted financially.

So be prepared for a wild ride. Or not. And get yourself a really good lawyer. Mine was expensive, but his steady personality and experience made all the difference.

[GaGrl]

My DH and his ex-wife (uBPD/NPD) had lived separately for at least nine years when we reconnected (high school crush). She had told him multiple times that they could divorce any time he asked -- she is from a culture where women pretty much do what they want after the children are grown, so she did what she pleased and felt no need to divorce.

So DH tells her he wants to divorce. It should have been a 30 day, non-contested divorce. It took nine months. The only thing that finally moved it along was DH telling her, "Fine. We'll take it to court." She fears the court system and caved.

Their settlement agreement also had some weird, non-enforceable items. So strange. The blessing was that the children were all legal adults.