Am I just tolerating this or am I actually happy?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Good morning all,

So my fiancé was diagnosed with BPD last summer after an explosive and "legal" outburst on her part in which I was arrested for getting her off me and she fell being drunk and got hurt (just some perspective). After a break and the realization that it was a mental disorder, we decided to try and work on this together and continue our relationship.

Since that has happened, things have been honestly not too terrible.  We have had the odd flare up but I just remove myself from the situation allowing things to cool down, then we talk.  This came to a screeching halt this past weekend...

Due to the self isolation world we are living in, my daughter was with her mom this weekend so I decided to plan a cute date night for us for being kid free.  I did an indoor wine and paint night, made her an awesome meal, we played along with some jeopardy (which we love), then we finished out the date night with some awesome intimacy time.

Naturally, being a man, I fell asleep after all the activities.  Around 5:00 am I woke up and realized she wasn't in bed with me.  So I got up and went out to the living room where I found her balled up on the couch holding my iPad.  I asked her what she was doing and she said she just couldn't sleep.  I asked what's wrong and I got the preverbal "I don't want to talk about it".  We all know that is not the truth though haha.

So I pressed the issue a bit and she said "so you were on xyz dating site last summer?"  I guess an email had come through at some point a while back and she happened to go through my emails and saw it.  Now, to clear things up, I did go on there back after she had me arrested as I was contemplating if I wanted a distraction or not.  Ultimately, I decided no and hid my profile and never looked back.

So naturally, this turned into a nuclear level event.  She also went back to emails in my sent folder from almost 10 years ago between me and my ex (LONG before my fiancé's time... like 7 years before).  I noticed she was forwarding conversations between my ex and myself to her own email for "records".  In addition, she went onto every single thing that I could possibly talk to people on and went through with a fine toothed comb.  She even yelled at me and accused me of cheating with a work client of mine that I met because we set up a meeting on there.

So we worked through this, even though I was seething with anger that she would violate my privacy like that for stuff that is none of her business.  Now, I can empathize with the dating app thing even though I didn't purse anything,  that must have hurt that I was looking to move on possibly. So we agreed to move past it and that night we connected again (as she is a physical person) and it was still short and awkward.  

The next three days was more of the same.  The shortness, the little snotty comments the works.  She was bound and determined to "punish" me even though she started this from my perspective.  I was getting to the point of where I was feeling this was too much and worried for the next 50 years of this.  So l let her know I was struggling and of course she pushed.  She said "I'm going to stay at a hotel and I demand an answer on if you want to continue this by tomorrow".  As if love is that easy to put a deadline on...

So I thought about it and was willing to give it one last try with some couples counseling added on.  She has been doing CBT therapy on her own as the DBT just got too expensive for us, but I believe that has slipped with all this distancing stuff.  Since we have decided that, she is getting annoyed, cold shouldering me, glaring at me, etc for the dumbest stuff.

For example, last night she was asking if I would be ok if she didn't get her nails done this week.  She deemed my response took too long (maybe 3 seconds) and she rolled over and gave me the cold shoulder.  This morning, I was getting ready in the main bathroom because when we both get ready in the morning in the master bathroom it is super cramped.  She walked by me, gave me a glare and kept on walking.  

Like I am getting tired of this hostility and negativity honestly and looking for advice on other people's experience.  Or am I just doomed to suffer through life like this if we continue?  I have read the walking on eggshells book and done lots of online research on this so I know how difficult it is, but I am feeling like I am not good enough and can't do anything right, even after amazing date nights...

Also, sorry for the long winded post.  I just wanted to lay it all out there.

MDW

[littlewillis2381]

Good morning all,

So my fiancé was diagnosed with BPD last summer after an explosive and "legal" outburst on her part in which I was arrested for getting her off me and she fell being drunk and got hurt (just some perspective). After a break and the realization that it was a mental disorder, we decided to try and work on this together and continue our relationship.

Since that has happened, things have been honestly not too terrible.  We have had the odd flare up but I just remove myself from the situation allowing things to cool down, then we talk.  This came to a screeching halt this past weekend...

Due to the self isolation world we are living in, my daughter was with her mom this weekend so I decided to plan a cute date night for us for being kid free.  I did an indoor wine and paint night, made her an awesome meal, we played along with some jeopardy (which we love), then we finished out the date night with some awesome intimacy time.

Naturally, being a man, I fell asleep after all the activities.  Around 5:00 am I woke up and realized she wasn't in bed with me.  So I got up and went out to the living room where I found her balled up on the couch holding my iPad.  I asked her what she was doing and she said she just couldn't sleep.  I asked what's wrong and I got the preverbal "I don't want to talk about it".  We all know that is not the truth though haha.

So I pressed the issue a bit and she said "so you were on xyz dating site last summer?"  I guess an email had come through at some point a while back and she happened to go through my emails and saw it.  Now, to clear things up, I did go on there back after she had me arrested as I was contemplating if I wanted a distraction or not.  Ultimately, I decided no and hid my profile and never looked back.

So naturally, this turned into a nuclear level event.  She also went back to emails in my sent folder from almost 10 years ago between me and my ex (LONG before my fiancé's time... like 7 years before).  I noticed she was forwarding conversations between my ex and myself to her own email for "records".  In addition, she went onto every single thing that I could possibly talk to people on and went through with a fine toothed comb.  She even yelled at me and accused me of cheating with a work client of mine that I met because we set up a meeting on there.

So we worked through this, even though I was seething with anger that she would violate my privacy like that for stuff that is none of her business.  Now, I can empathize with the dating app thing even though I didn't purse anything,  that must have hurt that I was looking to move on possibly. So we agreed to move past it and that night we connected again (as she is a physical person) and it was still short and awkward.  

The next three days was more of the same.  The shortness, the little snotty comments the works.  She was bound and determined to "punish" me even though she started this from my perspective.  I was getting to the point of where I was feeling this was too much and worried for the next 50 years of this.  So l let her know I was struggling and of course she pushed.  She said "I'm going to stay at a hotel and I demand an answer on if you want to continue this by tomorrow".  As if love is that easy to put a deadline on...

So I thought about it and was willing to give it one last try with some couples counseling added on.  She has been doing CBT therapy on her own as the DBT just got too expensive for us, but I believe that has slipped with all this distancing stuff.  Since we have decided that, she is getting annoyed, cold shouldering me, glaring at me, etc for the dumbest stuff.

For example, last night she was asking if I would be ok if she didn't get her nails done this week.  She deemed my response took too long (maybe 3 seconds) and she rolled over and gave me the cold shoulder.  This morning, I was getting ready in the main bathroom because when we both get ready in the morning in the master bathroom it is super cramped.  She walked by me, gave me a glare and kept on walking.  

Like I am getting tired of this hostility and negativity honestly and looking for advice on other people's experience.  Or am I just doomed to suffer through life like this if we continue?  I have read the walking on eggshells book and done lots of online research on this so I know how difficult it is, but I am feeling like I am not good enough and can't do anything right, even after amazing date nights...

Also, sorry for the long winded post.  I just wanted to lay it all out there.

MDW

[Cat Familiar]

It’s a huge violation of your privacy to do a deep dive on your iPad. From her side, feelings equal facts.

Added to all these disruptive feelings on both sides is the fear and anxiety from the pandemic.

She is unlikely to admit to any fault for snooping since she probably feels justified for “catching” you. How do you feel about your privacy being invaded? Is this a deal breaker or something you can get past?

[PeteWitsend]

...
So naturally, this turned into a nuclear level event.  She also went back to emails in my sent folder from almost 10 years ago between me and my ex (LONG before my fiancé's time... like 7 years before).  I noticed she was forwarding conversations between my ex and myself to her own email for "records".  In addition, she went onto every single thing that I could possibly talk to people on and went through with a fine toothed comb.  She even yelled at me and accused me of cheating with a work client of mine that I met because we set up a meeting on there.
...

Expect this incident, and these emails to be a continuous - if not constant - issue during your time with her, including your marriage, should it go that far.  She'll bring them up to justify future snooping and violations of your privacy, and maybe also to justify any behavior of her own that you don't like. 

Even if you can show that *every* *single* *email* was sent before you met her, she'll still claim it's suspicious that you are defensive about it, or just continue to outright lie, & claim she caught you emailing other women, or trolling a dating site while you were together (especially if she's talking to third parties).  Once pwBPD "have something" or think they have something, they never let it go.  The saying "feelings are facts" for them is very applicable here.  She FELT you must have cheated, so in some way, you DID cheat.   

Like I am getting tired of this hostility and negativity honestly and looking for advice on other people's experience.  Or am I just doomed to suffer through life like this if we continue?  ...

Yes.  You are doomed to suffer through life like this if you continue. 

[littlewillis2381]

It’s a huge violation of your privacy to do a deep dive on your iPad. From her side, feelings equal facts.

Added to all these disruptive feelings on both sides is the fear and anxiety from the pandemic.

She is unlikely to admit to any fault for snooping since she probably feels justified for “catching” you. How do you feel about your privacy being invaded? Is this a deal breaker or something you can get past?

Sorry for taking so long to get back, I tried to get on Saturday and the site wouldn't load at home for me... then we had another nuclear blowout.  To answer your question though, I feel that it is completely unacceptable that she invaded my privacy.  I don't have any of the old emails in my inbox or anything, and who thinks they have to clear their "sent" items?

As for this blowout, it was all the same thing except this time we were laying on the couch and I was cuddling with her.  She then got mad at me because I wasn't "kissing her enough".  At this point, due to the last week of hell I had it.  I didn't get mad, I got up, walked away and went and had a long hot shower to essentially hide.  I had my daughter so I was unable to leave the house to cool down.

Once I got out of the shower I told her I was frustrated and it was on.  I am the only one in this relationship that isn't allowed to have feelings.  I am to be the rock that never faulters, the one to fix all problems, the one to come crawling back to her and make things right.  I am not that personality type normally, but this is the woman I love and my fiancé so I feel I owe it to bend.  Well, my back is getting pretty damn sore. 

She stayed in a hotel all of Easter because she didn't feel comfortable at home.  This devastated my 7 year old child who loves the crap out of her.  It hurt me more to see her so upset.  When my SO was home I told her she needed to get herself together and the little one doesn't need to have to worry about this.  Her response "well maybe you should be more concerned about how I feel right now".  I was furious as she doesn't get the parental bond because she doesn't have kids of her own. 

Again, after a day of calming down she comes back and apologizing after I told her I was tapped out (cause I am getting to that point).  We have agreed to try couples counseling but she is putting this on "we" did something wrong and I don't honestly believe that.  Yes, I react and sometimes it's angrily.  However, if someone punched me in the face I would not just try to heal them with my heart...

[littlewillis2381]

Expect this incident, and these emails to be a continuous - if not constant - issue during your time with her, including your marriage, should it go that far.  She'll bring them up to justify future snooping and violations of your privacy, and maybe also to justify any behavior of her own that you don't like. 

Even if you can show that *every* *single* *email* was sent before you met her, she'll still claim it's suspicious that you are defensive about it, or just continue to outright lie, & claim she caught you emailing other women, or trolling a dating site while you were together (especially if she's talking to third parties).  Once pwBPD "have something" or think they have something, they never let it go.  The saying "feelings are facts" for them is very applicable here.  She FELT you must have cheated, so in some way, you DID cheat.   

Well, she is locked out of all electronic devices and not because I am hiding anything, but because I cannot trust her.  She then goes on to say "if I ask to look at your phone can I see?"  That is something I am ok with.  What I am not ok with is sitting up till 5 am actively searching for problems from stuff I sent my ex from over 5 years ago... ugh.

[IWantToLive]

I can totally feel for you considering uncanny similarities in your situation and mine. It has been 13 years for me with my wife and not one day passes by when I don't think why I did not pull the plug on my marriage before our first kid was born (I have 2). Snooping on my emails from past when she wasn't even in my life early in our marriage to today checking my mobile, passing snide remarks on my character for no reason, waking me up from my sleep dead in the night only to call me names, I too am going through every bit of what you are going through.

To add to it, current lockdown situation has worsened it all up.

I used to be the same of going up to her trying to make things work every time post her drama but for last 2 years, I have stopped doing that. It hasn't fully helped my situation but definitely has cut down on her drama. Yes, there are days and weeks of without speaking to each other (except for transactional matters) but ultimately she does become normal (mostly because she needs my help for something or the other).

With 2 kids around, I am unable to figure out how to get rid of my situation for good! I wonder why she doesn't leave me if she is so pissed with me.

[littlewillis2381]

I can totally feel for you considering uncanny similarities in your situation and mine. It has been 13 years for me with my wife and not one day passes by when I don't think why I did not pull the plug on my marriage before our first kid was born (I have 2). Snooping on my emails from past when she wasn't even in my life early in our marriage to today checking my mobile, passing snide remarks on my character for no reason, waking me up from my sleep dead in the night only to call me names, I too am going through every bit of what you are going through.

To add to it, current lockdown situation has worsened it all up.

I used to be the same of going up to her trying to make things work every time post her drama but for last 2 years, I have stopped doing that. It hasn't fully helped my situation but definitely has cut down on her drama. Yes, there are days and weeks of without speaking to each other (except for transactional matters) but ultimately she does become normal (mostly because she needs my help for something or the other).

With 2 kids around, I am unable to figure out how to get rid of my situation for good! I wonder why she doesn't leave me if she is so pissed with me.

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this as well.  I hate to say it, but I am terrified for the next 30-40 years.  We do not have any kids right now though I even went through a vasectomy reversal for her to put it on the table.  I have sacrificed a lot for her and I feel that she is a "taker".

It feels like there will never be enough for her to be happy with her life and she is constantly looking for more.  Her job is amazing and she makes incredible money and it's stable.  Yet, it isn't good enough and she wants a new one.  Her vehicle that is only a few years old, she wants a new one.  At first in our relationship she was adamant about not wanting kids, then, you guessed it... she wanted one.  It's like she is constantly looking to fill voids she feels she has in her life. 

The same goes with emotionally and physically. She says we don't have sex often enough even though it's every 4 days for sure. I don't kiss her enough so she gets mad at me.  I don't reassure her enough, mad at me.  I don't, I don't, I don't.  I am literally beat down and feel not good enough but I am now seeing it's not a me thing at all.  This is her need for constant gratification.  She could have a new house, new car, new kid, I could have sex with her enough, cuddle her enough, and she would still find something that is missing in her life.

That is a huge expectation to put on your partner in life to fulfill every little thing that you think you are missing.  She has two divorces under her belt at 34 years old and I am worried she will be headed for a third if we got married and this continues UGH.

[IWantToLive]

I totally get when you say "taker". There is always a void that they are trying to fill. Once that is filled, they will enjoy for a moment but sooner than later there's another void that will surface and the drama continues.

In my case, all along she wanted kids. We have 2 now. The only thing she is now concerned about them is whether they are safe. Apart from them, it is none of her concern whether they are studying/playing or continuously watching TV/mobile games or involved in any character development activities. She can be on calls for hours and hours together which disgusts me no ends but ultimately I have learnt to ignore her been on calls.

The list is endless!

[PeteWitsend]

Well, she is locked out of all electronic devices and not because I am hiding anything, but because I cannot trust her.  She then goes on to say "if I ask to look at your phone can I see?"  That is something I am ok with.  What I am not ok with is sitting up till 5 am actively searching for problems from stuff I sent my ex from over 5 years ago... ugh.

I didn't realize you already had a daughter.  How is your BPDgf toward your daughter? 

Regarding the phone, get used to her asking to see your phone almost every day.  Or over odd things when she is about to dysregulate.  The conflicts they find tend to become a focal point for them (in my experience), and they never let it go. 

I always had a password on my phone out of general privacy concerns, but early in my marriage we told eachother our passwords in the spirit of openness & trust.  This changed for me after a couple years of marriage, when she would snoop on my phone and blow up over literally nothing.  Seriously.  It was like she decided she wanted to fight, and so would bend over backwards to find a basis to get upset.  One time it was because my mom texted my brother and I that she missed her "beloved sons."  Another time she got enraged that I hadn't texted any pictures of her to my mom, but I texted pictures of our kids.  Another time she was mad because I did text pictures of her, but they were "not nice ones." 

Each time this resulted in -at best - an uncomfortable, tense day, or at worse, a multi-day fight + silent treatment. 

After this happened a third time, I changed my passcode and told her she couldn't look at my phone anymore.  She hated this and made all sorts of allegations, but grudgingly accepted it.  she would still find excuses to need to "borrow" my phone for a sec, which always resulted in her snooping through texts, never actually doing what she claimed she needed to do, and of course, getting enraged over something someone sent me: an off-color joke from a friend, not enough pictures of her being sent to my family, my mom texting and asking how I am, etc.

of course these fights were in addition to all the other fights we had regularly... on average two serious blow-ups a month, with multiple days of silent treatment each time.  It got to the point where I looked forward to the days of silent treatment because I could at least expect peace and quiet at home after work.   

Whatever you decide to do is your decision, but recognize that you're seeing all these things now, and they're very unlikely to improve after you're married.  Marriage adds the heightened stakes of a life-long commitment (and therefore enhanced fears of withdrawal for the pwBPD) to the mix.  weigh the good against the bad, and decide whether you feel a high-conflict relationship is worth it. 

[PeteWitsend]

...  This is her need for constant gratification.  She could have a new house, new car, new kid, I could have sex with her enough, cuddle her enough, and she would still find something that is missing in her life.

That is a huge expectation to put on your partner in life to fulfill every little thing that you think you are missing.  ...

Yep.  I always felt like I had simply signed up to fill a bottomless pit.  Their anxiety and fear of abandonment leads them to "need" all sorts of things. You never know what they'll demand when they decide you need to prove your commitment in the next 5 seconds.

And it's all in bad faith.  I thought it was ironic how a bunch of the things my BPDxw claimed she needed went out the window when she (out of desperation & poor judgment) replaced me as quickly as she could and ended up with a guy who has chronic back problems, plays video games all day, and threw her mom out of the house.  note: She had claimed her mom needed to live with us to provide her with "help" and "family support." (I actually didn't mind, because her mom helped around the house and would cook and clean, things my XW felt was below her, so I had to shoulder much of the burden of, in addition to working full time). 

[AskingWhy]

Boundaries are a real problem for BPDs.  They are happy to put them in place for their partners, but rage when boundaries are place in themselves.  They deny to us nons what they freely take for themselves.  It's part of the disorder.

The snooping was an invasion of privacy and a violation of trust.  Time to pull back and put passwords on all of your devices.  The snooping was a betrayal.

[IWantToLive]

Can one help me with this obsession of being super cool in public, pretending to be ahead of everyone (e.g. Netflix, Prime shows) etc?

I am referring to the incident that happened today. My sister messaged on family Whatsapp group about a documentary on Corona virus on Netflix. I sat with my son to watch it. Comes my BPDw claiming she told my sister and so the message on Whatsapp by her. I checked with my sister if she was told of the documentary by her sis-in-law and got the response that there never was such a discussion. So, it is confirmed that my wife is again making up. This is not the first time. Earlier I couldn't understand but now after 13 years of marriage am slowly able to connect the dots.

When in public, any topic being discussed, she will pretend she knows everything and will at times grandstand as well. She will always guide me as to how to behave (how much to talk, how to react, who to talk to etc). Result, I have started keeping mum in public when she is around coz many a times once back home, all hell will break loose for no obvious reasons. And, if I do speak (which I do if am aware of the topic being discussed), the response back home is that I was trying to flaunt!

I have really cut down on my social media life too to avoid any altercation with her in the larger interest of kids (when she gets around creating ruckus at home, it is totally immaterial to her if kids are around or not and if they are scared or not).

I have cut down on all my interactions with females (past/present friends) coz she then comes to character assassination. My cousin with whom I was so close before marriage, we are hardly on talking terms now coz my wife doesn't get along with cousin's wife.

All in all, a pitiable situation to be in.

[PeteWitsend]

Can one help me with this obsession of being super cool in public, pretending to be ahead of everyone (e.g. Netflix, Prime shows) etc?
...

I remember reading a comment on here that when dealing with BPDers, every interaction has to have a "winner" and a "loser."

Maybe because they have such a poor self image, that they're constantly needing to "one up" everyone around them, and if they can't, they sulk.  If they don't know something, weren't first, or don't have the most expensive gizmo and someone else does, it seems they internalize this as a personal failing, maybe?

I experienced this a bit too.  I found over time I'd just avoid most topics with my XW b/c she would get irritated and upset if she didn't know something or understand something. 

"Keeping up with the Joneses" was also a problem for us:

When we were married, her circle of friends at the time had a lot of people in it that lived WAY beyond their means, and in due time, many of them had declared bankruptcy, in one case several times.  But XW couldn't grasp why they had nicer cars than we did, new kitchens, etc etc. and would complain I was cheap and not a good provider.  While at the same time, on the flip side of the coin, she relished mentioning her friends' financial problems when gossiping with others. 

she needed to find ways to make herself feel superior to whoever she was talking to, and had no problems ignoring evidence to the contrary, embellishing her stories, or outright lying when it suited her.

[Cat Familiar]

To accuse you of flaunting is Projection 101. She must be pretty oblivious to not see that’s exactly what she’s doing.

I second PeteWitsend in saying their lack of stable self image and sense of insecurity inclines them to braggadocio.

My current husband has traits, not full blown BPD, like my first husband. But even though he’s not dysfunctional, he still surprises me in public by taking credit for things I’ve accomplished, when he had nothing to do with it. At first it annoyed me, but now I see the humor in it, though it’s a sad commentary on his own lack of self esteem.