How to reconcile "protective dishonesty" part 2

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Here is a quick story, I partially don’t want to bring up, but it’s the story I tried to post (actually thought I had but can’t find it) a few weeks ago but had trouble with error messages.

Right after his big dysregulation re: the remote that set off 8-9 days of not speaking, etc., he came around. Within a day or two he was losing it again and got upset at something and threw the said remote at the tv and broke it (the tv) and stormed out knocking stuff in his (erratic) path. I was done at this point.

He came around much quicker this time with a tiny bit of remorse. He is gloom and doom with pandemic but also he can’t live like this and we may divorce. I sat quietly and listened. I told him I was feeling this too AND that I cannot allow/put up with breaking things. It is simply not something I can be around. That was it. No more conversation.

I let him live with broken screen for a week or so. Didn’t pick up the things he knocked over.

He’s been much calmer. I suspect because he is figuring out work stuff. Not sure.

BUT, he’s now repeating a story around throwing the remote. It allows him to shift blame (not to me), but it is simply not true.

I sound like a crazy person true/not true. It is NOT the moral high road.

I just don’t know if he’s protecting himself from guilt or trying to convince me, which I don’t believe because I know what happened. This is gaslighting I feel like, except I’ve always thought of gaslighting as being done to my actions...this is trying to manipulate my thoughts.

Besides the absolute intolerableness of breaking things (given!), what do you think is going on here?

Why is he trying to convince me something different than I know happened. This is not foggy memory. This is a month ago.

The retelling has been last couple of weeks. It’s a good story, but untrue.

It will become fact (probably already has). I have not validated or corrected this. I say nothing.

[UBPDHelp]

Here is a quick story, I partially don’t want to bring up, but it’s the story I tried to post (actually thought I had but can’t find it) a few weeks ago but had trouble with error messages.

Right after his big dysregulation re: the remote that set off 8-9 days of not speaking, etc., he came around. Within a day or two he was losing it again and got upset at something and threw the said remote at the tv and broke it (the tv) and stormed out knocking stuff in his (erratic) path. I was done at this point.

He came around much quicker this time with a tiny bit of remorse. He is gloom and doom with pandemic but also he can’t live like this and we may divorce. I sat quietly and listened. I told him I was feeling this too AND that I cannot allow/put up with breaking things. It is simply not something I can be around. That was it. No more conversation.

I let him live with broken screen for a week or so. Didn’t pick up the things he knocked over.

He’s been much calmer. I suspect because he is figuring out work stuff. Not sure.

BUT, he’s now repeating a story around throwing the remote. It allows him to shift blame (not to me), but it is simply not true.

I sound like a crazy person true/not true. It is NOT the moral high road.

I just don’t know if he’s protecting himself from guilt or trying to convince me, which I don’t believe because I know what happened. This is gaslighting I feel like, except I’ve always thought of gaslighting as being done to my actions...this is trying to manipulate my thoughts.

Besides the absolute intolerableness of breaking things (given!), what do you think is going on here?

Why is he trying to convince me something different than I know happened. This is not foggy memory. This is a month ago.

The retelling has been last couple of weeks. It’s a good story, but untrue.

It will become fact (probably already has). I have not validated or corrected this. I say nothing.

[UBPDHelp]

One other quick thing for help. He was expecting some money to come. He’s been not sharing a lot of details. It could be that it’s not as much as he thought so he feels bad about it. Could be he doesn’t think I need to know because he doesn’t care about my stress. He indicated it may be deposited at some point but it has not been. It’s several days.

I’ve been wanting to mention. Don’t want fall out but on the flip side if he assumed it happened and I don’t say, then that could be a problem. I also didn’t want to make him feel bad if he was working on it. But I feel like several days later a follow up is needed.

Also have some concern about opening up bank accounts that he delusionally believes have money in them. He has been given the info previously and should know, but he is kind of out of touch with reality, so I fear he will come undone. If we weren’t trapped inside with him already on edge I would have reminded him two months ago.

So, my thought is to frame it around just updating him that I haven’t seen a deposit and he should probably follow up on it.

As if nothing more is wrong than perhaps a clerical error.

My brain is fried and I can’t see the land mines here. Anyone that can help me here?

[Notwendy]

Why not at least say your mom and I ?

Because, he doesn't think like you. He also doesn't have the same feelings as you. He's a different person than you are.

And if his thinking is disordered, he's going to perceive, say, feel and think differently than you. And react differently than you.

His tendency to speak of things like sex and drugs around the children.It's not a question of morals, it's boundaries.

Judging you for your BF is also projection. And your son. Maybe your H was a player, or wished he was. Or wanted to be cool in HS and wasn't.

Pw BPD have delayed emotional ages and emotional regulation. Honestly some of the things you say your H does sounds like a 4 year old ( throwing food) or a teenage trying to be cool with his kids and talk to them like they are peers.

I think one issue you have ( and I don't blame you for this ) is wanting him to be different than he is. But he is who he is. The more you judge him through your own eyes and ideas of how you think he should act, the more distressing it is to you.



Stop expecting him to not be who he is. All you can do is decide how you will act.

I don't think it's good for the kids to hear him speak like that, but on your part, you need to set the different example.

As to the dating shaming; I had a similar situation with my H over an old school crush. He acted as if I had cheated on him when he found out. Now, how could this be cheating if it was years before I met my H? But before I had better boundaries, I allowed myself to be completely shamed over this.

Here's the thing- I had to have a stronger sense of self. Who I dated before I met my H is not his business to judge me over. I have been a faithful wife. I know that , and whatever he thinks doesn't change that. Now, I don't even listen to it, or take it seriously. The boundary is: I choose to not feel shame or diminished over something there is nothing to be ashamed of. You can choose this too.

[Cat Familiar]

I hear you on the irritation about hypocrisy/dishonesty. I often have grown more fruit and veggies than we can use and I give away the surplus. My husband would often tell friends, “Here are some melons/tomatoes we grew.”

It would irritate me because he has done nothing whatsoever to grow anything and probably couldn’t find them in the garden if asked.

Last fall I brought a giant 25 pound Hubbard squash that looked like a weird blue alien to a party. My husband was dead set against doing so, saying I was trying to pawn off something I didn’t want, which was true—I had a smaller one I was keeping for ourselves. I think he was afraid of being embarrassed.

He was so irritable about it, but I brought it anyway and it was the hit of the party. Everyone joked and laughed about it and I got an email from our friends the next day thanking me for it and saying they felt it was now like a pet and they didn’t want to eat it—yet.

To echo something mentioned earlier in the thread by Notwendy, formflier, and ‘ducks, you are entirely caught up focusing upon your husband’s emotions and reactions. Understandable, particularly during the pandemic.

You worry about feeding the NPD beast. It’s already full grown, you’re not going to make it bigger!

What you can do is to take the focus off him and put it back on yourself if you don’t want to give his personality disorder more energy. If a small child is having a tantrum, do you explicitly focus on every word they’re saying or do you just make sure their physical needs and safety are taken care of?

Your husband is gonna grouse about the neighbor, about anything and everything external to his own internal emotional discomfort. Why not just think of this as his version of having a tantrum and ignore the details? Doing so will make your experience much more peaceful.

Since he’s not letting you in on details of the incoming money, why not just present him with the bills to be paid and tell him you hope it all works out well?

[Notwendy]

My BPD mom has poor boundaries and shared sexually inappropriate information with us kids. She sees my kids as her peers and tries to confide in them as peers. Knowing how she did this with me, I made the point of protecting them from that kind of contact with her.

Now that they are older, they have their own boundaries so I don't worry as much. So one day grandma said something inappropriate, the looks on their faces said it all. This reflected entirely on her. I didn't have to say anything. It had no personal effect on them as they have their own boundaries.

For your own kids, help them reinforce their own boundaries. If Dad makes them feel uncomfortable, let them feel this. Don't reinforce that. They may decide they don't like the way he speaks to them and disengage- good- let that happen. Don't triangulate by talking to them about their father in a negative way. But don't also run interference. You want them to have boundaries with people who speak like this.

One of the disservices adults ( mainly my father who saw it all) did was tell me my feelings about Mom were wrong.  I should ignore that I feel uncomfortable around her and " don't you dare speak like that about your mother". But what I said and felt were true. I needed to be allowed to own my truth. Let your kids own theirs.

[UBPDHelp]

Why not at least say your mom and I ?

Because, he doesn't think like you. He also doesn't have the same feelings as you. He's a different person than you are.

And if his thinking is disordered, he's going to perceive, say, feel and think differently than you. And react differently than you.

His tendency to speak of things like sex and drugs around the children.It's not a question of morals, it's boundaries.

Thank you for the reminder. I’m not saying my thinking is 100% correct, it’s just I seem to land somewhere on the more normal range.

Ultimately I’m accepting that I may need to take a big step back and reevaluate my thoughts AND how I may be making things worse. I’m so tired and it’s so hard to see the hidden meaning in certain things he perceives.

I try to set boundaries around this but it doesn’t do them any good if I leave.

Judging you for your BF is also projection. And your son. Maybe your H was a player, or wished he was. Or wanted to be cool in HS and wasn't.

This has been suggested before and I have considered it. I do think there is some projection BUT he seems to really feel this. And question my specific choices with such intense disdain, it’s hard to see this as about him. He also carries the same rhetoric every single time. Some I believe is from my poor reaction to his raging at me. It didn’t start quite like this but at some point I was over it all and got tired of him bringing it up. Then when he did, I got more upset/frustrated and then a really bad cycle ensued.

He has gone so far in his rage texts to dig up pix of this old bf and send them to me questioning why I would sleep with someone like him. Then he would want to check my phone to make sure I deleted the picture. One time I missed one and he screamed at me for having it on my phone. I was like I wouldn’t have it if you didn’t send it to me. I mean, please tell me that’s not just me misunderstanding?

This is before I set any boundaries. I do think if I refused to show him my phone, he would lose it, but he hasn’t done this in a while. I honestly don’t know how much is he’s stuck home for now so he’s not going down this road. Or, has he hit my boundary and is looking elsewhere. Idk.

Pw BPD have delayed emotional ages and emotional regulation. Honestly some of the things you say your H does sounds like a 4 year old ( throwing food) or a teenage trying to be cool with his kids and talk to them like they are peers.

Entirely. He is a foot stomping four year old. But he is capable of so many things intellectually, just completely stunted emotionally. It is so hard.

He is supposed to have funding for his business in the next few days. He actually looked at me and said he hoped I was taking advantage of all the pandemic programs they’re offering for mortgage and other bills. I saw this as an opening I’ve been waiting for. I said yes, but I need your input on the house payment. He was like I don’t want to talk about it, just do it. I can’t just do it, it’s not in my name and there are options and I need input on which is best. If I don’t get his input, then guaranteed whichever I chose will be wrong. Is he emotionally unable to discuss?  Does he want to not be responsible (so I can be blamed later if needed)?  Combination? 

He literally says he hopes I’m taking care of it, I state I need his help for one consideration and he won’t discuss.  Just walked away mid conversation. Guess he has damn better boundaries than I do. Ugh.

I think one issue you have ( and I don't blame you for this ) is wanting him to be different than he is. But he is who he is. The more you judge him through your own eyes and ideas of how you think he should act, the more distressing it is to you.

Stop expecting him to not be who he is. All you can do is decide how you will act.

I don’t disagree with this.  I would add, however, that I would like him to be who he used to be or who he pretended and made me believe he was. Doesn’t seem fair he promised to be this person and it was a facade. I’m just saying.

But, I am nearing acceptance. I suppose in some ways my turmoil is not about him or what he does, but rather trying to figure out what I can live with and what I can’t. And to that end, I suppose that’s why I focus so much in his behavior. I know it won’t change, so is it livable?

I don't think it's good for the kids to hear him speak like that, but on your part, you need to set the different example.

As to the dating shaming; I had a similar situation with my H over an old school crush. He acted as if I had cheated on him when he found out. Now, how could this be cheating if it was years before I met my H? But before I had better boundaries, I allowed myself to be completely shamed over this.

Here's the thing- I had to have a stronger sense of self. Who I dated before I met my H is not his business to judge me over. I have been a faithful wife. I know that , and whatever he thinks doesn't change that. Now, I don't even listen to it, or take it seriously. The boundary is: I choose to not feel shame or diminished over something there is nothing to be ashamed of. You can choose this too.

Thanks notwendy. I am really working on reframing my thinking and approach. I have found, with a lot of help here, different ways to approach my life that are working better for me. Some slight improvements in him, but more walking away when I need.

I fight back, but I am listening to all the feedback. It takes me time, but I do start to see the points and own my part.

Work in progress.   

[UBPDHelp]

I hear you on the irritation about hypocrisy/dishonesty. I often have grown more fruit and veggies than we can use and I give away the surplus. My husband would often tell friends, “Here are some melons/tomatoes we grew.”

It would irritate me because he has done nothing whatsoever to grow anything and probably couldn’t find them in the garden if asked.

Last fall I brought a giant 25 pound Hubbard squash that looked like a weird blue alien to a party. My husband was dead set against doing so, saying I was trying to pawn off something I didn’t want, which was true—I had a smaller one I was keeping for ourselves. I think he was afraid of being embarrassed.

He was so irritable about it, but I brought it anyway and it was the hit of the party. Everyone joked and laughed about it and I got an email from our friends the next day thanking me for it and saying they felt it was now like a pet and they didn’t want to eat it—yet.

To echo something mentioned earlier in the thread by Notwendy, formflier, and ‘ducks, you are entirely caught up focusing upon your husband’s emotions and reactions. Understandable, particularly during the pandemic.

You worry about feeding the NPD beast. It’s already full grown, you’re not going to make it bigger!

Thanks Cat...I guess this is true. I hope it is!

I do see that he needs a lot of validation. I really do give him as much as I can. But sometimes it truly feels endless. And, I go back, he has a way to take everything and literally relate it back to him. I like to call it the BPD six degrees of separation. Kid got an A on a test, he bought the pencil so they had the tools to take the test otherwise they would have failed. I won the baking contest, he bought the oven and paid for the ingredients, otherwise I wouldn’t have the ingredients or way to bake it and then wouldn’t have won (yes, dude, there would have been no cake).  It does not matter how big or small, it was his idea or somehow his doing.

BUT, I am going to make a concerted effort to really acknowledge him and see if it helps. I am not convinced, but will try.

What you can do is to take the focus off him and put it back on yourself if you don’t want to give his personality disorder more energy. If a small child is having a tantrum, do you explicitly focus on every word they’re saying or do you just make sure their physical needs and safety are taken care of?

Your husband is gonna grouse about the neighbor, about anything and everything external to his own internal emotional discomfort. Why not just think of this as his version of having a tantrum and ignore the details? Doing so will make your experience much more peaceful.

This has been good advice on this site, even if I fail at it on occasion. I am getting better. I am stepping back a lot more and letting him deal with his emotion. Today it was something I made smelled funny. He wouldn’t eat it. Everyone else did and loved it. I asked him once, he said no.  I left him to figure it out. He repeated that it smelled funny. I said sorry he didn’t care for it. He harrumphed some more, but I moved on and finally he did, too.

Then he goes on to an issue with local government sending an email that annoyed him. I said I got it too and yes to his being annoyed. He doesn’t drop it like three more times. Why would they do this?  I said again I didn’t know and yes annoying. Said it again, at this point I think he is really looking for why. I tell him I don’t know, but maybe it’s X.  And then I’m defending it, he hasn’t heard me agree with him two times and I have just JADEd him. Yep, walked right into it, but my patience only stretches so far on repeat.

Since he’s not letting you in on details of the incoming money, why not just present him with the bills to be paid and tell him you hope it all works out well?

I love this. I think he would totally lose his mind because he is not living in reality right now. Seeing some money movement, so will revisit and then work with him on something small.

Thank you so much Cat, it is appreciated.

[Cat Familiar]

This thread has reached its maximum length and is now locked. The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344462.0