Deconstructing a potential argument

[Cat Familiar]

I thought it might be helpful to diagram an interaction that happened yesterday and show how it could have led to a dysregulation.

I was sitting in the dining room, making a list for a project, when my husband asked me how to do something. (I’m way more knowledgeable about fixing things on our property.)

Because my mind was split on two tracks, my words came out slowly and measured, because I didn’t want to lose my train of thought about my project.

Next thing I hear:
H: “Calm down!”
Me: “What?”
H: “You don’t have to treat me like I’m five years old!”
Me: “You don’t have to be misogynistic.”
H: “I’m not that kind of guy—you know that.”
Me: “I know you’re not, but those words are,” said as I went out the door to work on my project outside.

A couple of hours later, I came back in the house briefly.
H: “You think I’m a misogynist.”
Me: “No I don’t, but those words were.”

Later in the day, I was back from my project and my husband was about to go to the store.
H: “Is there anything you need.”
Me: “I don’t think so. I wanted to apologize for hurting your feelings. I was speaking slowly and measuredly. I wasn’t being demeaning.”
H: “It was an unfortunate choice of words.” (Referring to “calm down”)
Me: “Do you understand how insulting that was?”
H: “You don’t have to tell me. I know.”
Me: “So how would you describe that?”
H: “It’s like saying ‘woman be quiet’ or that you’re being hysterical.”
Me: “Exactly!”
Me: “We both got triggered. You good? I’m good.”
H: “Uh huh.”

He then left, went shopping, and brought home my favorite ice cream and some toothpaste I’d previously requested that the store hadn’t had last week.

[Cat Familiar]

So the previous post was what happened. Here’s how it could have gone really wrong, and how I would have handled it a few years ago:

Me: “I can’t believe you said that! Calm! I was totally calm, just minding my own business making this list. You asked me to tell you and I did and now you’re getting on my case!”

I wouldn’t have left. I would have imagined that I could have talked things through until we both agreed—despite all evidence to the contrary on multiple occasions.

My emotions would have gotten heightened though the escalating conflict and I would have been stewing with the unfairness of his attack.

It wouldn’t have occurred to me that my slow measured way of speaking to him would have been insulting.

I would have been preparing comebacks for the next round like “Trump says things like that to female reporters to shut them up.”

In addition, I doubt if I would have offered an apology. I would have wanted to explain in detail why saying “calm down” to a woman who was speaking slowly and quietly was so offensive.

It wouldn’t have occurred to me to ask him why he thought it might have felt hurtful to me.

What I realized by asking him to put himself in my shoes, I validated him and immediately dropped the issue because I realized that he totally understood my position.

That was a really good learning experience. I’ll hopefully remember next time I have a similar opportunity to ask instead of tell.

[formflier]

What I see is an awareness of when to leave the "discussion".

I'm curious if that is based on when you think you need to leave or when you think he needs to stop talking but isn't able to.


Regarding apologies.  I'm still working on that.  I used to only apologize when I had done some egregious thing.  Now I try when I "could have done better" and I also do it to "show leadership".

I have to say many times they taste like vinegar coming out and then I feel weird because they soften things so often.

Why on earth would I be so resistant to doing something that "softens" things and opens the door to something better?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

What I see is an awareness of when to leave the "discussion".

I'm curious if that is based on when you think you need to leave or when you think he needs to stop talking but isn't able to.

I certainly hadn't plotted to leave at that particular moment; it seemed like a good exit point. Actually I'm the one that typically will keep talking. He usually goes quiet with a sullen expression.

Regarding apologies.  I'm still working on that.  I used to only apologize when I had done some egregious thing.  Now I try when I "could have done better" and I also do it to "show leadership".

I think apologies can often be a sign of strength rather than weakness. That said, finding the exact thing to apologize for can be difficult. 

At first, I thought he was being overdramatic taking offense at how I was talking. But then, I imagined it from his perspective and it totally made sense. He isn't very confident about tasks, but he's learning. But hearing me speak in a different manner than I usually do, it was easy for him to jump to the conclusion that I was judging him or being impatient for having to explain something that he probably feels he should know.

[Ozzie101]

Very helpful, Cat! Thanks!

Knowing when and how to leave is a key skill and not always easy.

In my case, I rarely get angry or fight back at all but I am very guilty of “explaining.”

[Cat Familiar]

I’m an Explainer too. It just seems part and parcel of my DNA. But it certainly doesn’t go over well with pwBPD. Maybe with other folks who don’t have a PD, but really, who wants to hear how I think?

Being a Thinker rather than a Feeler is also a major mismatch when my husband is getting ready to disregulate.

No matter how many times I’ve bombed out with trying to explain, something within me still believes it’s possible. 

[UBPDHelp]

Hi Cat,

This was an interesting read and helpful to see how a successful interaction happened.

I’m an over thinker and over explainer...I think they don’t mix very well for me. I need plenty of time to think through things and in the moment explain (JADE).

The JADEing has plagued me since the beginning but I had zero comprehension of the insidiousness of it.

My H will say “why did you X?”

I will provide a reason.  He views this as an excuse and typically becomes enraged. He fully says there are no reasons, only excuses. I disagree, but can now see how neither is doing me any good. That said, I don’t think that’s acceptable.

Why are you late?

I forgot I needed to get gas so I had to stop first.

To me this is pretty innocuous, sh!t happens sometimes. He sees that I don’t value his time (I understand this, but super rich considering he values mine none at all), but I am not dismissing responsibility, simply stating the reason I was late (totally my fault).

But the “calm down” really caught my eye. Very interesting take and understanding. I get the calm down a lot. I’m generally not “not calm” and he usually IS “not calm”. I’ve been confused/frustrated by this and sadly it has made me not calm. Your understanding helped frame a new view for me which I think is helpful.

Thank you...keep up the good work and keep sharing your experiences...they are so helpful, especially to those of us who have not consistently acquired the skills.

[Cat Familiar]

My H will say “why did you X?”

I will provide a reason.  He views this as an excuse and typically becomes enraged. He fully says there are no reasons, only excuses. I disagree, but can now see how neither is doing me any good. That said, I don’t think that’s acceptable.

Why are you late?

I forgot I needed to get gas so I had to stop first.

He’s setting you up for an attack. My husband has done this too, but instead of excuses, he sees justifications.

If you can see this as a power play rather than an innocent question, it can help you avoid the knee-jerk tendency to answer. (I know how automatic it can be.)

A friend who attended a negotiation seminar once told me:
Whoever asks the questions controls the conversation.

Perhaps you can think of some questions that could be rejoinders to what he asks you. Some of these might seem kinda smartazzed, but perhaps you can create some responses that might be more suitable for your situation:

What about that is important to you?
Why do you want to know?
Does it really matter?
How will knowing that help you?
Have you ever been late?
Do you really want to know my thought process?
Do you want the five minute explanation, the half hour explanation or the twenty second explanation?
How much do you really want to know?

Regarding the “calm down” I think it’s likely that it’s projection. Like you, hearing that at times when I’ve been absolutely calm has had the effect of enraging me. I cannot imagine a man saying that to another man in similar circumstances. It seems like a very gendered remark.

In sum, there will always be times when things will go off the rails, whether or not I’m adding fuel to the fire, and sometimes I am. I think the important thing to remember is that before the physical impacts of emotions being triggered, there is often time to change one’s response and stop making things worse.

It took me a long time to learn to disengage when I became angry, but limiting the emotional damage certainly offsets any momentary glee about replying with a devasting zinger, but which has long lasting negative consequences.

[Ozzie101]

Really good point about setting up for an attack. In my case, looking at it from that angle, I can see that at times, my H has been “spoiling for a fight.” Keeping mind that that’s what he wants and that’s his motive may help me in these situations going forward. I appreciate that different way of looking at it.

Asking questions — another good point to keep in mind. It’s been tricky in my situation. If I’ve asked questions back, H has tended to get more angry and accuse me of acting like a lawyer or a therapist, which can send him down another tunnel of the rabbit hole, given his he feels about both professions. Or, he’ll accuse me of doubting him or of trying to put more stress in him. But maybe it’s my tone or wording more than the act of questioning. Food for thought.

[Cat Familiar]

Yeah, Ozzie, I’ve gotten accused of “cross examining” and my husband is a lawyer.  

I have to remember not to be a heatseeking missle, eyes focused directly upon him, with one goal in mind—to get a response to that question!

From my little bit of newspaper work experience, I put on my friendly reporter’s hat and casually ask a question, showing interest in whatever the reply, not tipping my hand to my agenda.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, good advice. I’m working on being mindful of tone and body language. What can trip me up is when he’s peppering me with questions and I respond with a question it annoys him for the reasons stated above. Well, you want an answer. I need more facts. Or maybe I have other questions of my own. Nowadays, I mostly just sit quietly or say “I don’t know” in a flat tone and let him move on. There’s no “winning” and I realize that now.

I’m definitely getting better about not taking “bait.” I wish I could think of an example I could share and will if one comes to me. But I know there have been a few times recently when I could tell he was trying to get a fight going or being passive aggressive. It’s a vibe he gives off. Instead of engaging, I basically ignored what he dropped on the floor and went blithely on. It didn’t end things entirely, but the situation didn’t escalate.

[formflier]

Also...once you see it as a "set up", you can really switch up the response.

H:  "Why are you late.."

you:  "Oh...I can't wait to share.  (big sigh...whew...)  Let me get us something to drink.  I can't wait to share about my evening...it means so much that you asked." 

hand out drink, plop down next to him and sigh again..

you:  "Ever have one of those days were the world is stacked against you?"

seriously..wait for answer.

you:  "I tell you what...how nice it is to be welcomed home."

you can see how this is going.  Perhaps you get to some reasons..perhaps it's just one of those days.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Love FF’s strategy! The more options you have, the better!

[Ozzie101]

That is excellent. I’ve been a lot better about dealing with the passive-aggressive stuff. It rankles underneath but I just act ignorant and treat what he says at face value. Inside, I’m on “alert.”

[Cat Familiar]

Let’s add to the list of strategies we have when asked questions we really don’t want to answer with our frank opinion or spoken to about subjects we think will lead to a dysregulation:

1. Asking a question or questions

2. Friendly Southern hospitality (FF)

3. Taking what is said at face value (Ozzie)

OK guys and gals, let’s add to this list!

[formflier]

There is another strategy I use, when things are especially outlandish...it's along the lines of Ozzie101 taking things at face value.

So...if they say something shocking I try to be "honest" and/or authentic and express shock along with a perfectly reasonable and healthy statement that because this is so shocking I'm going to need to consider it carefully so I can act...not react.

When pushback comes I focus on whether or not I have it correct.  Do they really want me to understand xyz?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I like that, FF, shock leading to careful evaluation.

That’s similar to my playing dumb/confused and asking for more details.
Caution, if you try this one, you really need to be able to act as though you’re confused, otherwise it will backfire big time. I am often genuinely confused, so it doesn’t come across as insincere.

[Cat Familiar]

1. Asking a question or questions

2. Friendly Southern hospitality (FF)

3. Taking what is said at face value (Ozzie)

4. Shock, leading to careful evaluation (FF)

5. Playing dumb/confused and asking for more details (Cat)

[formflier]

That’s similar to my playing dumb and asking for more details.

Which can be an authentic response...especially if you really don't understand.

In the earlier days I made up my responses.  I think that was right for the times because I was being deliberate about changing things.

After I got more comfortable that tools could really "clean up the mess" AND by learning more about me and what I want...I really started to focus on "being authentic"

So...if shocked...do that.

If puzzled...do that.

If angry...do that (although I don't "aim" it at my pwBPD).  I'm so angry that (fill in the blank has come between us). 

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I agree, it’s important to be authentic. PwBPD can be very perceptive and can often easily spot insincerity.

The more options we have in responding, the better we can walk through potential minefields.

Sometimes having a canned response can buy us time, when we’re caught up short and have no idea what we are being confronted with.

[Ozzie101]

Buying time can be very valuable. I know with my H, once he’s upset, he’s like a freight train. Occasionally he’ll ask questions (though it’s more like issuing challenges — “don’t you agree?” “You think this, don’t you?”). But for the most part, he talks and talks. The level of coherency is proportionately linked to the level of dysregulation. But it’s fast, constant and hard to keep up. Delaying a bit and getting a pause is definitely a good thing, if only so I can keep a handle on what’s happening and figure out what I need to do.

[formflier]

  “You think this, don’t you?”). 

I took a really hard line on stuff like this.  For one it triggered me.  Makes me feel like I don't matter, since others can define my thoughts.

So...I would say I'm open to sharing my thoughts if my pwBPD was opening to listening. I would be explicit about saying that I don't do "cross examinations" and I don't do the "let's put FF behind the 8 ball and let him fight his way out".

I simply won't participate in that.  Call it stonewalling or whatever...I got to where I didn't care.

Even said things like "I've thought this through...if you need to impose a boundary or consequence..please go ahead.  I won't communicate in this manner and I'm willing to accept whatever consequence there is for that."

Maybe that's another thing to add to the list.  Instead of listening to threats...invite them to proceed. 

At least in my case they rarely do.

Disclaimer:  My wife will "proceed" if really honked off.  However I'm almost always "feed the beast" for a while.  Nip it early and let them show their cards.  They rarely do.

Best,

FF