Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 04:26:38 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
81
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: PD/BPD and Sad Stories  (Read 507 times)
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« on: June 06, 2020, 07:41:12 AM »

Hi all,

Didn’t know what to call this thread but I have a small issue that I don’t know if has anything to do with PDs or if is just my H’s personality.

He cannot/will not discuss anything sad.  Some examples...

Two years ago a friend of mine had a recurrence of breast cancer. Her kids are about the same age as my younger two, with my youngest daughter and hers the same and in class together, religion class, Girl Scouts, soccer, etc.  Friend was pretty quiet about the recurrence (like she told no one) and she lives a couple of doors from us so when soccer needed to get something to her (she hadn’t come around), they asked me to drop it. I had it in my car and saw her out one morning and swung over to give it to her. I asked her how she was doing (standard pleasantry, no knowledge) she just said, bad, really bad. We talked for a bit and she basically said it came back and spread and she had several brain tumors, was on her liver. All in all as she said, really bad. I asked what I could do and if I could start a meal train and rally friends to help with kids, etc. She wanted to think about it.

I was pretty shaken up and called a mutual friend I was confident would keep the conversation private to counsel.  I felt she could use help, wouldn’t ask and yet I wanted to respect her wishes. She also seemed completely overwhelmed. But I didn’t want to cloud how I felt onto her. Ultimately, I made a couple of meals and put them in her fridge so she didn’t have to worry about kids being fed, shopping. I texted her a couple of times with no response. Got one last one that was nonsensical (heartbreaking) and she was gone in less than three weeks.

I told my H about it at first and he told me he didn’t know why I cared because she’s not my friend. I never spoke to him about her again. I look at her house everyday when I walk out my front door. I see her kids, I watch them put up their holiday decorations, I see them at school.

Anyway, two days ago my youngest daughter’s friend lost her four-year battle with diffuse intrinsic pontine glioma (rare inoperable brain tumor in children with less than 1% percent survival past a year). She was 12.  When I got the news, I broke down even though as I’d followed her these four years and the updates the past couple of months were not good, she fought so long and so hard, I always had hope.

My H once again told me I shouldn’t be upset because I didn’t know her. She was in my daughters class, her GS troop. My daughter was at her last birthday party about two months before her diagnosis and she went downhill pretty quickly. They did a trial at Sloan and then years out of country for experimental, but productive treatment. Once you are in a trial, they don’t let you do another so they went to some extremes to keep treating her.

Anyway, I respect H can’t discuss these things, but why?

Is it a PD thing?  Just a him thing?  

These things are hard, I get that.  I get it bothers some people more.  It bothers me soo much, but my reaction is what can I do to help, to feel the feelings. Maybe I’m more abnormal. Idk.  

But his reaction isn’t “I’d rather not talk about it.”  It’s much bigger.

Just wondering if this fits anywhere or if anyone has similar reactions to sad things.  Thanks!
Logged
I Am Redeemed
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1915



« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 11:16:32 AM »

My first thought is that this may be a glaring example of a lack of empathy. He is unable to be emotionally supportive, maybe because he doesn't understand the emotions of others, maybe he can't conceive that others have emotions, or maybe because he has no interest in anyone else's emotions except his.

Is it a trait of a PD? Possibly. Lack of empathy can be a trait of npd or aspd. BPD, too, though I think the BPD lack of empathy comes more from just being overwhelmed by their own emotions so they can't deal with other people's, too.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=130485.0
Logged

We are more than just our stories.
GaGrl
Ambassador
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 5722



« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 12:24:47 PM »

I also immediately thought of NPD and the lack of empathy.I

My husband's ex had often said things like ke, "Why should I care (or get involved). It is nothing to do with me." She cannot connect with anyone or anything unless it affects her in some personal way.
Logged


"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7480



« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 01:52:00 PM »

I think lack of empathy fits for NPD and ASPD. Perhaps too much emotion (grief/sorrow) makes for an emotional overwhelm for a pwBPD and then, they’re probably more immersed in their own feelings than having empathy for others.

My husband will shut down if I go into too much detail about medical or veterinary information. He can’t handle hearing about it.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 10:42:43 PM »

Thanks all.  Thankfully the extremes of this aren’t often, but I feel these things and care and his response is always “why”?

In of itself, knowing of a 12 yo girl who died would be sad. Knowing that 12 yo girl (who had just turned twelve a month ago), who spent four years fighting the inevitable, enduring excruciating treatment and who played and went to school with our daughter is upsetting. But he feels nothing, but worse gets upset with me that it bothers me.

I agree — I often don’t share these things or water them down so he can tolerate. It’s just tough having no support or acceptance of my feelings.

That said, this was just curious sake and just confirms to not share with him.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2020, 08:13:06 AM »


I'm also curious what would have happened if you had said...


"Hey hubby (name)...I would appreciate you listening and understanding my concern.  What I just heard sounded like a critique of my feelings, was that your intention?"

Basically..just get right to it.  Let him explicitly know what you would appreciate or find helpful and clarify if he intended to critique/criticize. 

One thing is for sure, he's apparently not able to talk about your feelings as you "expect"...without guidance.  And it's likely he's not able to do that with guidance. 

It would seem you could quickly clarify this.



Best,

FF
Logged

UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 10:28:58 PM »

I'm also curious what would have happened if you had said...


"Hey hubby (name)...I would appreciate you listening and understanding my concern.  What I just heard sounded like a critique of my feelings, was that your intention?"

I told him I needed a minute when I heard because I was visibly upset. I was actually trying to leave so I wouldn’t have to discuss with him because he doesn’t like death/illness (does anyone?) and I knew he would be no support.

He knows he’s critiquing because he’ll tell me he doesn’t know why I care followed by telling me that I love/enjoy death. Clearly it’s a manipulation so I won’t discuss with him. But why?. Idk if it’s narcissistic in that he wants all the attention or what. 


Excerpt
Basically..just get right to it.  Let him explicitly know what you would appreciate or find helpful and clarify if he intended to critique/criticize. 

This would be great. I don’t think he’s capable of being helpful in this regard. He won’t discuss illness or death. Just won’t. It is like a two year foot stomping.

Excerpt
One thing is for sure, he's apparently not able to talk about your feelings as you "expect"...without guidance.  And it's likely he's not able to do that with guidance. 

Amen. I think that’s true. Occasionally it will be a short lived understanding but it doesn’t last.

Ultimately I guess I just wanted to know if this was a BPD trait, but not expecting a change.

Also balancing typical behavior. I feel like “normal” to not enjoy/be uncomfortable with these topics. Refusal to discuss/zero empathy, not so “normal”.

Thanks FF...
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2020, 07:28:59 AM »


Hey...resist the urge to "assume" you know what he knows.  Short clarifying questions.

Let him verbalize..."yes, I'm critical of your feelings."

In other threads it's obvious he is changing.  Sometimes it can be hard for someone that wants to believe they are "all good" to verbalize something they know is "bad" and it "might" nudge things in a different direction.

Don't hold your breath..but it's worth a try.

Best,

FF
Logged

Ozzie101
Ambassador
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1915



« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2020, 09:47:26 AM »

BPD, ASPD, NPD. Which? That’s a question I ask myself a lot.

My H also shies away some from sad stories. In his case, he can actually be good about talking and listening sometimes. While a bit detached, he’s at least there and seems to listen.

The problem comes later.

When he’s upset about something, he will often take things I’ve been upset about and throw them back at me as proof I don’t care about him and/or SS9. For instance, I have a 7-year-old niece who has had four seizures over the last 18 months. No explanation. No diagnosis. I told H. He was detached but said that was scary. During an episode, he lambasted me and my family for showing so much concern for N while showing none for SS (who is perfectly healthy).

I get that it’s probably his way of saying he feels ignored or left out or not cared for, but it was still bewildering for me at the time. Especially since my concern hadn’t involved any major emotional reaction or anything other than asking my sister a few questions and offering help if she needed it.

Likewise, if I show emotion or concern for others, he gets annoyed that I can get emotional over other people or accuses me of caring more about them. He’s said more than once (when at baseline) that he’s just not interested in other people if it doesn’t affect him

Is that true? Or is it bravado/defense mechanism? I really don’t know.

But it can be difficult for people like us, knowing we can’t really expect support from the person nearest to us.

Very interesting topic. And helpful insight/advice from FF. Thanks!
Logged
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2020, 06:58:26 AM »

BPD, ASPD, NPD. Which? That’s a question I ask myself a lot.

My H also shies away some from sad stories. In his case, he can actually be good about talking and listening sometimes. While a bit detached, he’s at least there and seems to listen.

The problem comes later.

When he’s upset about something, he will often take things I’ve been upset about and throw them back at me as proof I don’t care about him and/or SS9. For instance, I have a 7-year-old niece who has had four seizures over the last 18 months. No explanation. No diagnosis. I told H. He was detached but said that was scary. During an episode, he lambasted me and my family for showing so much concern for N while showing none for SS (who is perfectly healthy).

I get that it’s probably his way of saying he feels ignored or left out or not cared for, but it was still bewildering for me at the time. Especially since my concern hadn’t involved any major emotional reaction or anything other than asking my sister a few questions and offering help if she needed it.

Likewise, if I show emotion or concern for others, he gets annoyed that I can get emotional over other people or accuses me of caring more about them. He’s said more than once (when at baseline) that he’s just not interested in other people if it doesn’t affect him

Is that true? Or is it bravado/defense mechanism? I really don’t know.

But it can be difficult for people like us, knowing we can’t really expect support from the person nearest to us.

Very interesting topic. And helpful insight/advice from FF. Thanks!

Thanks Ozzie. This feels familiar.

My H definitely feels that focus should be on him so I do think if he senses my attention may go elsewhere, even temporarily, he gets upset.

And, he throws it back up, too.  “You did such and such for so and so, but I need you to rub my neck and instead you take the kids to school.”  That’s a mild version...heard way worse.

Hope you’re doing well...thanks Ozzie!
Logged
I Am Redeemed
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1915



« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2020, 07:52:00 AM »

Thinking back about how my ex was with this, I realized that if someone else gave him information that was sad ("so-and-so lost their six month old") he would show an emotional response but it would be a display of how hard he was taking it. If I shared something sad (so-and-so lost the baby today) he didn't want to discuss it and would shut down the conversation.

When my father died, he was in jail... again. Later, he would throw it up to me how I didn't write to him while he was there (he was only there three weeks, and my father died the first week) and how much that hurt him. He seemed to either forget, discount, or not care at all about the fact that I lost a parent during that time and also that the reason he went to jail was that he had taken my parents' checkbook and written a fraudulent check. It was all about him and his feelings and what he felt entitled to.
Logged

We are more than just our stories.
UBPDHelp
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 794



« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2020, 08:36:44 AM »

Thinking back about how my ex was with this, I realized that if someone else gave him information that was sad ("so-and-so lost their six month old") he would show an emotional response but it would be a display of how hard he was taking it. If I shared something sad (so-and-so lost the baby today) he didn't want to discuss it and would shut down the conversation.

Entirely accurate. Hypocrisy.  Hypocrisy has been a huge issue with me dealing with my H. This is another example.

I’ve seen this exactly. Ugh...thanks for pointing it out I Am Redeemed!

Excerpt
When my father died, he was in jail... again. Later, he would throw it up to me how I didn't write to him while he was there (he was only there three weeks, and my father died the first week) and how much that hurt him. He seemed to either forget, discount, or not care at all about the fact that I lost a parent during that time and also that the reason he went to jail was that he had taken my parents' checkbook and written a fraudulent check. It was all about him and his feelings and what he felt entitled to.

Unbelievable, and yet there it lay at your feet. How is that possible?  But again, seen this kind of thing, too. Amazing (not in a good way).

Thank you!
Logged
WitzEndWife
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 674



« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2020, 10:41:31 AM »

I agree with others that the lack of empathy sounds very NPD, but also BPD can sometimes look like NPD in that they are totally self absorbed and will deflect and project to protect themselves and avoid feeling abandoned. Often, with the BPD, there's a real fear of anyone coming between you and them, of anyone taking the focus off of them and their needs. So, for example, if a parent is sick or dying, the pwBPD will often even demonize the parent or their partner because they are terrified of losing your attention.

My HwBPD will often demonize friends, family, or acquaintances he fears might take attention from him. He also feels overwhelmed by strong emotions from me. He cannot handle it when I'm stressed out or angry or sad. He'll either lash out at me in anger, criticize me, cry, or try to make me laugh. 

Paradoxically, there's also a limit to his depth at times. He does not like to talk about his feelings unless he is entirely in control of the conversation. He does not like me to talk about mine. He is also selectively avoidant of some texts, music, movies, or art that I like to talk about in terms of emotional depth. He loves art, music, and literature, but again, only on his own terms. It's like they have to control their emotional environment to avoid overwhelm. That could be a part of avoiding sad stories - a genuine fear at the lack of control over the emotions they provoke.
Logged

"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
WitzEndWife
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 674



« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2020, 10:47:37 AM »

I'll also add that, given that most of us live in cultures where men showing emotion is seen as weakness, and many men have grown up with this in mind, imagine what it must be like for someone who has disordered emotions and trouble controlling them. It probably feels terrifying, that at any moment their emotions might betray them. That's also something to consider when examining why a PwBPD might avoid sad stories or seeing their partners sad.
Logged

"Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. All is riddle, and the key to a riddle is another riddle." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!