He tossed out insults at the slightest pushback

[UBPDHelp]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344945.0;all

I'll put this out there for you and for others to comment on about the "bossing around thing".

Here is the deal, everyone knows that's no good, yet he has been trained that it's ok for a long time.  It needs to be undone, but it needs to be done carefully and consistently.

Agree.  Just want to clarify a bit.  It’s hard to give examples. Often it’s not a verbalized bossing, but rather an expected bossing. When the kids were little I was home and did household chores, it just kind of turned into an expectation.

Distinction example...

H stays up late and snacks. He’ll leave glasses, dishes, etc., in the family room. I can leave it, but ultimately we then run out because he will never pick up, at least 85-90% of the time. And, if I hold off, then it means I deal with an outburst.

I see how I’ve created this terrible dynamic coupled with very narcissistic tendencies and it’s perpetual.  Can it be broken?  Should it be, when considering who he is?  Idk.

So...I'm looking for wisdom/input on if now is a good time to address this...or leave it alone for a better time.

Agree...would love shared wisdom.

Note:  I took a hard line on this and have mostly gotten it out of my relationship.  My gut tells me it comes from your pwBPD's need to "control".

Bossing around is a "kissing cousin" to insults because it often comes out/across as "you would be nothing if not for me to tell you what to do" or "I can't believe you did it that way...you are such a screw up...aren't you glad I'm here to save you..."   Uggg...double and triple uggg

Entirely.  In fact, he has tossed out insults at the slightest push back lately.

The most annoying part is he gets mad at my push back of his push back.

Watch this...

We moved a piece of furniture and lost some storage. The items in it are used rarely, but worth keeping. He asks where I’m going to put them. I say I’m going to put them in a different cabinet where there’s room. He says “no, why don’t you box them up.”  I say, “It would be nice to box them.  I’m going to put them in the other until I see how often I need them before boxing up.” He gets really mad, makes some loud, intimidating grumbly noises and storms out of the room. Won’t even talk to me now.

The pieces are mine, he never uses them. He disagreed with me, but sees it as I disagreed with him.

This is over and over on things all day. He never puts his own stuff away. It’s frustrating.

So, maybe I’m looking at this wrong...please tell me.

So...before getting into how to undo this...what are people's thoughts on if now is a good time?

Or perhaps we do this with one issue (like the new job and where the work is done)

I am ALL ears!

Thanks FF...you all have an impressive ability to pare down my stories/ramblings and get the issue(s)!

[Cat Familiar]

To go back a few posts, you said, "My other concern is that I put in all this effort, make these changes and in a year or so, it all crumbles again."

You are putting in the work for YOU, not him.

Nearly every post you are talking about his reaction to something. As you're well aware, this is completely out of your control. The only control you have is over your own responses.

So what if he's making exaggerated claims in his stories, becoming indignant if you don't agree with his POV 100%, talking about "girls" on Facebook?

You're not going to change his behavior, so why even react to it?

I know, it's habit. But you have the awareness and ability to change your response, whereas he's limited by a mental illness.

I'm much more concerned with your feeling overwhelmed and exhausted than how he responds. As long as you remain so focused upon his behaviors, you will always feel overworked. Yes, it's annoying when someone won't pick up after themselves and acts so superior. But you don't have to participate when he's ordering you about. What's the worst that could happen if you said, "If you think that needs to be done that way, go right ahead."

[UBPDHelp]

To go back a few posts, you said, "My other concern is that I put in all this effort, make these changes and in a year or so, it all crumbles again."

You are putting in the work for YOU, not him.

Nearly every post you are talking about his reaction to something. As you're well aware, this is completely out of your control. The only control you have is over your own responses.

It’s true.  Maybe it’s because I don’t belong on the bettering board. It feels like his behaviors are insurmountable. Yes, I’m focused on his behaviors because I guess I don’t feel like they will change and I’m weighing whether I can live with them anymore. I’m not perfect, don’t even pretend to be. But, I give and take and have empathy. I get none in return. Worse, I get tables turned on me.

So what if he's making exaggerated claims in his stories, becoming indignant if you don't agree with his POV 100%, talking about "girls" on Facebook?

You're not going to change his behavior, so why even react to it?

I’ve stopped reacting but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact me. And I’m trying to decide if I can deal with the hypocrisy and constant need for ego boosters.

I do annoying things. I do kind and compassionate things. I’m a mixed bag, but you can live with me. I don’t think I’m superior, but equal.

I know, it's habit. But you have the awareness and ability to change your response, whereas he's limited by a mental illness.

A lot habit. I have stopped reacting/responding to his outbursts. His ego needs have intensified. Assuming there’s a correlation, throw in pandemic and I’m searching for clear answer.

Hard to walk away, want to be sure. It’s not that I don’t think I have behaviors that can be improved, I do. I’m willing to see them and try. He is not.

I'm much more concerned with your feeling overwhelmed and exhausted than how he responds. As long as you remain so focused upon his behaviors, you will always feel overworked. Yes, it's annoying when someone won't pick up after themselves and acts so superior. But you don't have to participate when he's ordering you about. What's the worst that could happen if you said, "If you think that needs to be done that way, go right ahead."

Thank you Cat.  I’m trying. I just am frustrated at the constant nitpicking and foot stomping. It’s in my face.

I’ve done a variation (maybe reverse). Doesn’t go over well with him, but I feel better/good. Boundary.

I appreciate you, and everyone, who keeps refocusing me. I really think I’m trying to decide if I’ve just given enough time and effort and should be not dealing with these things. Idk.  Kind of where I am.

He’s supposed to go back to work next week, so hopefully a little breathing room will help with a clearer head. Fingers crossed.

Thank you.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re weighing the pluses and minuses of the relationship and deciding upon your future path, all of which is daunting in normal times. That you’ll have a bit of breathing room when he returns to work will certainly take away some pressure.

Of course his behavior impacts you. It would impact anyone. The point is that it’s unlikely to change much, if any. And that’s where your decision point lies: is this something you can tolerate for a year, five years, ten, the remainder of your life?

If it is indeed tolerable, then you’ll need strong boundaries not to be negatively influenced constantly. Strong boundaries come in handy in other circumstances too, so any effort you make on that front won’t be wasted. Here’s a good article on setting boundaries.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being boundary-less and 10 ironclad boundaries, how would you rate yourself?

[UBPDHelp]

You’re weighing the pluses and minuses of the relationship and deciding upon your future path, all of which is daunting in normal times. That you’ll have a bit of breathing room when he returns to work will certainly take away some pressure.

Of course his behavior impacts you. It would impact anyone. The point is that it’s unlikely to change much, if any. And that’s where your decision point lies: is this something you can tolerate for a year, five years, ten, the remainder of your life?

Exactly. As it stands right now, I can’t take another five minutes.

Discussing venturing out.  He’s starting to get comfortable but then freaks out again. Snaps at our oldest for zero reason. Cannot modulate mood, feelings, nothing. Just a normal conversation and something triggers him.

But, it wasn’t always this way. Definitely rough patches and increasing difficulty the last 5-10 years.  But this past year too much. Why?  Idk. But because it’s a big decision I want to make it with all the facts. And, yet, I’m realizing I won’t likely ever know why or fully understand. And I have to do what’s right for me, but even more so, for my kids.

Thank you for understanding.

If it is indeed tolerable, then you’ll need strong boundaries not to be negatively influenced constantly. Strong boundaries come in handy in other circumstances too, so any effort you make on that front won’t be wasted. Here’s a good article on setting boundaries.

True. The funny thing is I have decent boundaries everywhere but with him. And he’s the only one who flips out. Ugh.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being boundary-less and 10 ironclad boundaries, how would you rate yourself?

Feels like (-10)with him prior, but probably 1-2, which thanks to you all has grown now to 6-7ish.

Everyone else 7-8, maybe 9. I’ve grown comfortable in my own skin and know what I’m willing to do and what I’m not. I don’t get too much boundary overstepping or freaking out when I hold my boundary.

Thanks Cat...it is helpful.

[babyducks]

I'm much more concerned with you feeling overwhelmed and exhausted than how he responds. As long as you remain so focused upon his behaviors, you will always feel overworked.

I find myself on the same page as Cat.   I am much more concerned with you feeling overwhelmed and exhausted.   I am much more concerned with the amount of energy and effort going into figuring him out, responding to him.

I would suggest you protect your energy like it's a Fabrage egg.   I'll let you pick which one.   

True. The funny thing is I have decent boundaries everywhere but with him. And he’s the only one who flips out. Ugh.

what I hear you telling us is that you are uncomfortable with conflict.    I would say very uncomfortable.    especially when he 'flips out'.     I get that.   the dysregulation of someone on this spectrum is a whole different category of flipping out.     I would suggest working on a strategy of how to deal with conflict, especially the high voltage conflict he generates.

• for all conflict/negativity that is generated find ways to cultivate calm and positivity in equal or greater amounts - garden, mediate, listen to music.   double or triple your self care.
• find ways to self soothe and self validate in the face of his nitpicking.   ways that do not involve him.   ways that are internal to yourself

• anticipate that conflict is coming.   it may be about the job, the end of the lockdown,  where the dishes are put.   anticipate it and work to find ways to be present with it but not impacted by it.
• find one value from the link Cat gave you and let it become your mantra.   cling to it.

my two cents
'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

I find myself on the same page as Cat.   I am much more concerned with you feeling overwhelmed and exhausted.   I am much more concerned with the amount of energy and effort going into figuring him out, responding to him.

I would suggest you protect your energy like it's a Fabrage egg.   I'll let you pick which one.    

Thank you BabyDucks...love Fabrage eggs, probably can’t be trusted with one, though.

I recognize that I need to start taking care of myself — mentally, emotionally, physically.

I think living in confusion, where nothing made sense has compounded my need to understand. I just don’t trust my perception.

Recognizing his responses/reactions are not typical/normal, watching him flat out try to manipulate and just learning so much about NPD/BPD (only tip of iceberg, though), has reassured me that my feelings are mostly reflective of “true” reality (vs his projected reality).

Adding to the confusion is his ability to function and sometimes be extremely thoughtful (perhaps an unknown agenda, idk).  I simply didn’t trust myself.

But, I’ve had time to sort and think and try to understand. I have accepted that he won’t truly change. I can’t understand the ebb and flow, the unbearable vs manageable behavior. I wanted it to work. I tried. And I sold my soul to do it.

Despite what he’s done to me, and that I have allowed, I wish him no ill will. In fact, I find myself feeling sorry for him. That concerns me some but I just have to not get sucked in.

I want my life back. I don’t want to walk on eggshells or avoid conversations (generally about situations he has created) so he doesn’t explode. It’s not what I envisioned. Didn’t even know this reality existed.

Anyway, his behavior is just an irritation at this point. I am shifting focus to building my life again. Guaranteed it’s not a clean break, but my goal.

what I hear you telling us is that you are uncomfortable with conflict.    I would say very uncomfortable.    especially when he 'flips out'.     I get that.   the dysregulation of someone on this spectrum is a whole different category of flipping out.     I would suggest working on a strategy of how to deal with conflict, especially the high voltage conflict he generates.

I don’t love conflict. I manage with work and friends. But no one flips out and insults me. He does.

Agree.  I’ve mistakenly tried to handle things to avoid conflict with him. Made me feel duplicitous, but my self preservation overrode it all.  

• for all conflict/negativity that is generated find ways to cultivate calm and positivity in equal or greater amounts - garden, mediate, listen to music.   double or triple your self care.
• find ways to self soothe and self validate in the face of his nitpicking.   ways that do not involve him.   ways that are internal to yourself

• anticipate that conflict is coming.   it may be about the job, the end of the lockdown,  where the dishes are put.   anticipate it and work to find ways to be present with it but not impacted by it.
• find one value from the link Cat gave you and let it become your mantra.   cling to it.

Yes!  Deep breaths. Getting control of myself and doing things for me. No explanation. It is what it is.

I expect the job is going to be conflict (he’s always generated it around my jobs) because it has a decent salary and benefits which means I “need” him less. I suspect his support is going to change soon OR maybe he’ll feel like he can leave. Idk, but I expect turmoil soon.

I’m working on a plan. I will NOT let him manipulate this job. I need it. Things are so uncertain, I don’t want to go back, but a lot of jobs are not very secure right now, so I will be bending over backwards to do a good job. It is a blessing to have.

What do you think about him re: the new job?  Do you see it becoming an issue?

More planning and preparation.

Thanks BabyDucks.

[formflier]

Put me down for concern about exhaustion as well. 

And I sold my soul to do it.

Here is the thing, "selling your soul" sounds like a lot of work..right?  Which leads to...hmmm...exhaustion..right?

Plus then you feel not authentic because you aren't living for yourself..being yourself.

Sort of a double whammy.

I want my life back. I don’t want to walk on eggshells or avoid conversations (generally about situations he has created) so he doesn’t explode. It’s not what I envisioned. Didn’t even know this reality existed.
 

Here is the thing...did all the energy you put into eggshells and avoiding conversations really work?

Was your life calm because he "didn't' explode?"

Was the result worth the work/energy you put into it?

The answer to the bolded question will help us/you figure out our next steps.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Put me down for concern about exhaustion as well.  

 
Here is the thing, "selling your soul" sounds like a lot of work..right?  Which leads to...hmmm...exhaustion..right?

Plus then you feel not authentic because you aren't living for yourself..being yourself.

Yes.  The thing is, it’s been a slow morph. Wasn’t needed in the early years, maybe less problems to deal with. But, it’s just intensified.

I’ve been reading Splitting and Should I Stay or Should I Go (Dr. Ramani’s YouTube videos were recommended by, I believe, Gemsforeyes (apologies if I got this wrong) and I found her book looking for more on NPD).

The book is pretty much what you all have been telling me, but she may be a bit more pessimistic (or realistic depending on your viewpoint).  The thing is, she pretty much says nothing will change and you’re in for a world of hurt (disclaimer, I am not done with the book).  But reading the first half, coupled with everything here, has helped me make sense of how I got here (vastly disappointed in myself regardless).

Please know that I recognize the importance of focusing on me, rather than him. But, in order for me to assess whether he can change (as a result of me changing)/whether I can continue without him making any changes (or partial changes), I have to understand why certain behaviors occur.  

Am I doing things that elicit his response?  Even so, is his response reflective of the transgression? The answers are maybe sometimes and an emphatic NO.  

If this were dating for 6 months or a year or two, although hard, I think shifting focus to me would be easier — and had I understood any of what was happening (remember the time before the internet and easy access to info, wish I would have studied harder in abnormal psychology!), maybe I could have prevented it getting worse (tools) or made the decision to go before all this time had passed. I would do it all again for my kiddos, could not imagine a life without them. They are wonderful joy, even with kid nonsense.

But, I’m talking about walking away from a 25 year marriage and breaking up my 4 kids family, without any support, except all of you (wonderful, thoughtful people, truly!). Or staying and hoping things will get better (with a lot of work, tools, boundaries on my part — worth it IF it can impart change and better, more peaceful life), so I have to understand the problem. Some can be fixed/tweaked, others are simply unfixable.

The bottom line is — I can NOT continue:

— Getting yelled at for the slightest resistance, including things that have absolutely nothing to do with him, he just thinks should be done a certain way.  Think, I’ll get my hair cut Tuesday, but he’ll argue Thursday is better.
— Avoiding him in the morning because I haven’t showered yet and he will physically recoil if he sees me, avoid in case he’s already pi$$ed off
— Inability to discuss bills, health issues, news without him flipping out.  May constitute dysregulation, certainly at its threshold
— Double standards, hypocrisy
— Projection.  This is a tough one. Really tough.
— Gaslighting. Also tough.

I don’t know that these things can change.

Here is a case in point.  Idk if this is projection, gaslighting or a combo. I’ve got a rudimentary understanding, so please chime in for clarification.

My apologies for this story. It’s insensitive and shameful and I’m embarrassed. Please know this is not a prevalent long-standing occurrence.  I suspect these things have always been there, but hidden because on some level he knew they were wrong.  Pandemic/stress and he can’t contain them.

I mentioned he had my phone the other day.  We finally ordered in from a Mexican restaurant. We requested contactless, paid/tipped in advance, left a note for the driver on the back porch (our driveway pulls up to the back of the house) where to leave the food.  The driver came and knocked on the door. Thought he was just letting us know the food arrived. But he wouldn’t leave.  We called out to him to let him know thanks, he could just leave it. But he proceeded to walk around the house knocking and looking in the windows. I called the restaurant and told them we were all set and to please let the driver know we saw the food and he could leave. They were confused why we wouldn’t come to the door and I explained to them that that was the point of paying in advance and doing contactless. There was clearly a language barrier and we weren’t understanding each other. Anyway, H decides he can explain to them. I hand him the phone and he starts to get agitated and feigns a Spanish accent as he’s getting a bit heated. I tell him to knock it off and give me my phone. Ultimately the restaurant calls the driver and he leaves. It was really strange and H was getting really upset with the driver walking around the house.  

He wants to know why I asked for the phone. I told him when he started with the accent it was too far (know that was not helpful, but it was highly emotional moment).  He then tells me I’m racist because I was frustrated and that he didn’t use an accent. Repeats this for the next 2-3 days. The two older kids witnessed the whole thing and privately said he used a fake accent too.  

Where the he! am I supposed to go with that? He can call me whatever he wants, simply not true. Next. But, is this gaslighting, projection, bit of both?

I just don’t see a functional, productive place from here.

One of the big call outs Dr. Ramani and others here have said is to watch how they treat service people. This is a huge go to for him.  He’s actually pretty nice to service people BUT also tells you that you always have to be nice to service people. Maybe he read that it’s a tell tale sign of narcissism.  Maybe because his parents were service people. And he is mostly nice, but I’ve also seen him be downright cutting if he feels someone has overstepped, albeit he gives a lot of leeway.  Point is, when he does snap, it’s intense insults.

Sort of a double whammy.


Here is the thing...did all the energy you put into eggshells and avoiding conversations really work?

Was your life calm because he "didn't' explode?"

Nope.  And it has been exhausting. Another reason I want to understand his behavior. If I correct my approach, requiring tremendous effort the other way, can it improve my life?

Yes, I’ll have more peace which is appreciated. But, if I have to spend my life giving him space and distance and time to manage his own feelings where we can no longer function for any length of time without manipulation and dysregulation, then is it worth the effort?

Was the result worth the work/energy you put into it?

The answer to the bolded question will help us/you figure out our next steps.

No, it’s not.

To be clear, my reactions/responses prior were not well-thought out responses. I mean I planned big actions, but I wasn’t necessarily anticipating his reactions. As he became more dysregulated, my reaction was basically retreat/avoid. Not great, but I was simply in self preservation.

So there’s some responsibility for making things worse. Yet, I shouldn’t have had to worry about telling H we needed to figure out how to pay bills because he insisted he needed another family vacation or a new car.

And, thank you for saying what “our” next steps are  .  Don’t know if it was intentional or subconscious, but either way appreciate that I’m not going this alone. Thank you.

[UBPDHelp]

Also, sorry for the long reply to simple questions.

I really am at a place of I’m doing what I’m doing, best interest of my kids, me and then with him in consideration.  But, not bending to his demands. He can come or not. I will assess as we progress.

I start back at work at the end of the month. He’s supposed to be going back sooner. Both of these I expect will cause him stress.

But calls that have been on hold can now proceed.

Need to revisit what should be presented in those conversations.

Again, sorry I can’t just give a simple answer. Bless you for not giving up on me. 

[Notwendy]

A couple things about boundaries-

You mentioned that it is harder to keep your boundaries with your H than with other people. This makes sense. Our romantic partners are closest to us- we don't have the same boundaries with them as we do with other people.

Emotionally healthy boundaries are variable depending on the relationship. I have different boundaries with a co-worker than I do with a close friend. Where we see inappropriate boundaries could be sharing TMI at work, or also being too distant, too closed off, with a good friend. Too strong boundaries could be as dysfunctional as having too weak ones.

My own boundaries in non intimate relationships are fine, but were weak in an intimate one. Boundaries can be about how we think about ourselves.  A boundary can be thinking "is this true, or is it not true" and if it isn't- then don't take a statement to have meaning- don't react emotionally to it.

I was raised to be a doormat to my parents. In my marriage I would also change my own wishes and goals to keep the peace. Over time, I just became more unhappy and resentful.

What has changed for me is the realization that, I need stronger boundaries in an intimate relationship than I am comfortable with. My position of comfort is to have weak ones- that's what I was raised with- and that's my part to change. However, a boundary also needs to be appropriate for the situation. If someone tends to trample boundaries, mine better be strong for that.

Our core boundaries reflect our values. There are principles we don't compromise. However, some of our boundaries are modified by who we are relating to and what we have learned over time. It may not feel natural to have stronger boundaries with a husband, but you might need to adjust yours to fit the situation, not what you assume the relationship is.

[formflier]

Hey...I'm intentional about using "our" next steps.  We've got you on this.

That being said, it is completely "your" decision.  I see our job as helping you get to a point you can clearly see each pathway...each point of view and that your outlook is "realistic" (knowing that even then there are no guarantees)

For me I found it helpful to understand the principles involved in the responses, that way when a curve ball comes and you don't have a pre-planned response...something reasonable will come out of your mouth without much effort

Let's take the phone/fake accent issue.

Your phone, you were making the call...you handle it (unless YOU get to the point where you would like to ask him to handle it).  If he wants to communicate to a (fill in the blank) restaurant with a fake accent and claim he is (fill in the blank)...he has access to other communication devices.

If you choose to let him use your devices...ASSUME IT WILL BE WEIRD get popcorn and settle in for the show (enjoy it vice getting twisted up) or don't hand him your device.

Really no middle ground. 

OK...this is me here.  I'm on your side and I also want you to "own" the phone incident and not blame him in the slightest for being him.

Read that a couple of times.

Is he really ever going to respect your written or unwritten rules for you device (no accents, no abc, no xyz..etc etc)

Last:  Instead of "deciding to divorce or not", I think it will help you to have a lower interim goal.

How about "deciding to be healthy in the relationship, regardless of consequence".  Realizing of course that he may not want this and he may choose divorce, he may choose silent treatment...he may forever talk to you with a fake accent...he may only email you...or perhaps use smoke signals...or...

But you...be the you that you want to be.

A big part of doing this is no longer worrying about conflict and/or dysregulations. 

Last:  Hope for you.  For many years I had iron clad boundaries on my devices.  My wife went ape shizzer for a while, then pretended it didn't matter and then would randomly grump for years.

In the past several months (perhaps 6) there have been some things going on in our lives that involved lots of emailing and texting.  I made the decision one day to hand my wife my phone and read over a text string.  We discussed it and when we matched up the way forward I asked her to send the text (I think I was driving)

She did.  It went fine.  It's happened a few times since then.  All my choice.

It would have  been unimaginable to me that this would have ever happened even a year ago...certainly 2. 

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

nice post from formflier.     good points.

OK...this is me here.  I'm on your side and I also want you to "own" the phone incident and not blame him in the slightest for being him.

I agree.   

this is another place to turn your attention away from him.   blaming him for being him is counter productive.   blaming him for acting "weird" continues to grow the stockpile of resentment and frustration you have.    yes.   he acted like a jerk.   at this point that can't be even a little surprising. he has been doing that steadily for how long now?     my first thought as I read the phone/food story was that at any point you could have opened the door, maintained a six foot distance... and said leave it on the whatever chair... porch... and have a nice day.   and the situation would have been over.    yes your H would have barked about having to open the door.     he is going to have conflict and dysregulation.    it's not going to magically go away.    his conflict isn't going to get better.  what can get better is how you feel about it,   how you react to it... and how you learn to avoid escalation.

Last:  Instead of "deciding to divorce or not", I think it will help you to have a lower interim goal.

How about "deciding to be healthy in the relationship, regardless of consequence". 

also a good idea.    deciding to be healthy is about you.    about you taking responsibility for what is yours.    it's about protecting the kids from having to figure out if Dad was using a phony accent.     it's about being the mature healthy calm adult in the family.     its about deciding to not focus on whatever today's erratic behavior is but to go do something that supports the kids and you.

'ducks

[formflier]

and how you learn to avoid escalation.

This concept was really hard for me...and still is sometimes because (at least for me) it feels like "I'm not addressing the issue" or "I'm letting her win" or "I'm letting her get away with..."

Those are my feelings though..and mine to handle.

What are the benefits?

We you are already seeing some of them "less big stuff" (yes I know..he is a grouch, he is xyz..) but the epic, shake the relationship to the foundation dysregulations are less..right?

We know...we know... he has a "fire burning inside him", as you become more adept at not "adding fuel" to that fire...guess what, his episodes will be less often and less bad (over time).

Full confession: You can find some of my posts where I seem shaken (and I was) after my wife said/did something off the wall.  The issues have become so infrequent that when they happen they are "more shocking" because I'm not used to them. 

What in the old days would have been a 5 (1-10 scale) is now perceived by me as an 8 or so. 

Still...I have my procedures to care for me, not add fuel and amazingly.  "Poof" a few hours later the world is normal again.  I add extra self care for a day, post here perhaps have a call with my P and then I'm back on track.

So..maybe a day detour instead of the weeks off track in the past.


Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

A couple things about boundaries-

You mentioned that it is harder to keep your boundaries with your H than with other people. This makes sense. Our romantic partners are closest to us- we don't have the same boundaries with them as we do with other people.

Emotionally healthy boundaries are variable depending on the relationship. I have different boundaries with a co-worker than I do with a close friend. Where we see inappropriate boundaries could be sharing TMI at work, or also being too distant, too closed off, with a good friend. Too strong boundaries could be as dysfunctional as having too weak ones.

My own boundaries in non intimate relationships are fine, but were weak in an intimate one. Boundaries can be about how we think about ourselves.  A boundary can be thinking "is this true, or is it not true" and if it isn't- then don't take a statement to have meaning- don't react emotionally to it.

I was raised to be a doormat to my parents. In my marriage I would also change my own wishes and goals to keep the peace. Over time, I just became more unhappy and resentful.

What has changed for me is the realization that, I need stronger boundaries in an intimate relationship than I am comfortable with. My position of comfort is to have weak ones- that's what I was raised with- and that's my part to change. However, a boundary also needs to be appropriate for the situation. If someone tends to trample boundaries, mine better be strong for that.

Our core boundaries reflect our values. There are principles we don't compromise. However, some of our boundaries are modified by who we are relating to and what we have learned over time. It may not feel natural to have stronger boundaries with a husband, but you might need to adjust yours to fit the situation, not what you assume the relationship is.

Hi Notwendy...busy few days.  I was certain I replied to you, but, wow, I must not have submitted.

Boundaries have been an issue with H.  As you said, less intimate relationships are easier, but I also feel like most people, even other family members and close friends, don’t push unreasonable requests that cross normal boundaries, so haven’t had to try so hard.

I’m a caregiver, my nature. I never looked at it as a negative. I have stamina and fortitude.  Like I am bothered by say the pandemic and current equal rights issues (is there even a question here?), BUT I don’t crumble with them. I say time for BS is over, let’s get the job done.

What I’m trying to say is that I have tremendous compassion for the human race, but I’m not a pushover (mostly 90%) and I don’t have time for nonsensical BS.

But H has utilized scare, emotional, financial, intellectual tactics (gaslighting, projection, silent treatment, testing) to throw me off. I have been so busy putting out his fires (and exhausted from) that I haven’t gotten to the heart of the matter.

The last year has been especially bad. Add in the pandemic and I’ve had a front row seat at an endless show of his disorder. Toss in “normal” functioning 20-30% of the time and get some confusion.

And some flashes of sympathy/empathy for his condition.

Anyway, just prior to pandemic stay at home (Feb) he went off at me some of the worst I’ve seen and left for four days. You all helped me with the first true boundary. I’ve held that and it will NEVER be broken. Since, there have been some others and I guarantee there will be more.

And, if we separate/divorce, there will be new ones, which may or may not be easier. TBD.

Thank you for your explanation. Examples always help me and hearing others experiences helps with my confidence in how I’m implementing various tools. Appreciate it.

[UBPDHelp]

Hey...I'm intentional about using "our" next steps.  We've got you on this.

That being said, it is completely "your" decision.  I see our job as helping you get to a point you can clearly see each pathway...each point of view and that your outlook is "realistic" (knowing that even then there are no guarantees)

Thank you. I know how I feel, just not sure yet if it’s reasonable.

For me I found it helpful to understand the principles involved in the responses, that way when a curve ball comes and you don't have a pre-planned response...something reasonable will come out of your mouth without much effort

Let's take the phone/fake accent issue.

Your phone, you were making the call...you handle it (unless YOU get to the point where you would like to ask him to handle it).  If he wants to communicate to a (fill in the blank) restaurant with a fake accent and claim he is (fill in the blank)...he has access to other communication devices.

If you choose to let him use your devices...ASSUME IT WILL BE WEIRD get popcorn and settle in for the show (enjoy it vice getting twisted up) or don't hand him your device.

Really no middle ground. 

OK...this is me here.  I'm on your side and I also want you to "own" the phone incident and not blame him in the slightest for being him.

Read that a couple of times.

Agree. I was not able to bridge the communication gap.  He can often do this, and doesn’t usually go off (at least initially, perhaps if recipient quickly acquiesces to his request...I need to pay attention here), so as it was clear I was getting no where, he offered. I handed him my phone. My choice. Didn’t think he would behave badly, but certainly the risk is always there.

Other than it being totally offensive and inappropriate, the restaurant has my name and phone number. So, yes, now I’ve sunk myself and am horrified he did this.

It was a lot to get him to order in during pandemic.  Opening a door, even at a distance, would have simply put him over the edge. He will only ever do contactless. He’s a germ-a-phob on a normal day, pandemic is so far beyond, I can’t explain.

Is he really ever going to respect your written or unwritten rules for you device (no accents, no abc, no xyz..etc etc)

Nope. It’s totally on me for letting him use my phone.

Last:  Instead of "deciding to divorce or not", I think it will help you to have a lower interim goal.

How about "deciding to be healthy in the relationship, regardless of consequence".  Realizing of course that he may not want this and he may choose divorce, he may choose silent treatment...he may forever talk to you with a fake accent...he may only email you...or perhaps use smoke signals...or...

But you...be the you that you want to be.

A big part of doing this is no longer worrying about conflict and/or dysregulations.

Agree. I’m focusing on new job, taking care of things that have been neglected and seeing if he can start functioning now that things are reopening. He said he was going back to work Monday, he didn’t. Think it was a test for me to tell him not to. I didn’t. I’m not pushing as it’s his decision and I’m not taking responsibility for it.  

So, I’m making backup plans (which may just become plans). Gathering info and going day by day, right now. 

Last:  Hope for you.  For many years I had iron clad boundaries on my devices.  My wife went ape shizzer for a while, then pretended it didn't matter and then would randomly grump for years.

In the past several months (perhaps 6) there have been some things going on in our lives that involved lots of emailing and texting.  I made the decision one day to hand my wife my phone and read over a text string.  We discussed it and when we matched up the way forward I asked her to send the text (I think I was driving)

She did.  It went fine.  It's happened a few times since then.  All my choice.

It would have  been unimaginable to me that this would have ever happened even a year ago...certainly 2. 

Best,

FF

Thanks FF. I generally don’t give him my devices and certainly not unsupervised. But, I do occasionally show him something.

Sadly, I can recall some devices broken in the past. I don’t know how I blocked that or pushed it aside. Yikes. A lot of time to reflect. And much of that is trying to understand why I put up with some of these things. I hadn’t remembered that in years. Selective memory...so sad.

I digress. I guess I become a fortress of boundaries. Initially it feels restrictive, but the results are absolutely freeing!

[UBPDHelp]

nice post from formflier.     good points.


I agree.   

this is another place to turn your attention away from him.   blaming him for being him is counter productive.   blaming him for acting "weird" continues to grow the stockpile of resentment and frustration you have.    yes.   he acted like a jerk.   at this point that can't be even a little surprising. he has been doing that steadily for how long now?     my first thought as I read the phone/food story was that at any point you could have opened the door, maintained a six foot distance... and said leave it on the whatever chair... porch... and have a nice day.   and the situation would have been over.    yes your H would have barked about having to open the door.     he is going to have conflict and dysregulation.    it's not going to magically go away.    his conflict isn't going to get better.  what can get better is how you feel about it,   how you react to it... and how you learn to avoid escalation.

Agree. UUUGGGGGHHHH!  I mean not surprising, but I still just trip up thinking he can behave properly (whatever that scale is) because sometimes he does and is actually helpful.

The roller coaster of that is unbearable. It’s not sometimes you remember to take out the trash (he never does, btw) and sometimes you don’t. It’s sometimes you close a huge deal for a client and are a hero and most of the time you’re tripping out because I: looked at you funny, haven’t showered yet, or just some random reason no one can figure out. And tripping out includes screaming obscenities, making not so subtle manipulations (threats, not physical), rage texting vile rants,  etc.

As the functioning good behavior has waned and the disordered behavior has waxed, the questions about continuing have emerged and taken a stronghold in my mind.

But, totally on me and I take responsibility.  Ridiculous behavior on my part. Blech.

also a good idea.    deciding to be healthy is about you.    about you taking responsibility for what is yours.    it's about protecting the kids from having to figure out if Dad was using a phony accent.     it's about being the mature healthy calm adult in the family.     its about deciding to not focus on whatever today's erratic behavior is but to go do something that supports the kids and you.

'ducks

Exactly.  I have been planning behind the scenes. I’m about 75-80% on my backup plan (again this may quickly become the plan).  I’ve implemented about 25% of the plan. The next bit will go quickly once I implement. So, making progress.

Making a decision if/when to move forward is the big hold right now.

I’m monitoring his next steps and his behavior going forward. I’m muddling some of his “new” plans and my distinct feelings about them. When I have some more time, I’ll share so I can get feedback on my thinking.

Thanks BabyDucks...you are so much help. Thank you.

[formflier]

I have been so busy putting out his fires (and exhausted from) that I haven’t gotten to the heart of the matter.

 

Why not let him deal with his fires?

Seriously...who elected you fire department for him.

Perhaps he likes it hot...

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

This concept was really hard for me...and still is sometimes because (at least for me) it feels like "I'm not addressing the issue" or "I'm letting her win" or "I'm letting her get away with..."

Those are my feelings though..and mine to handle.

I agree. This is how I feel. He gets away with it, worse yet is the fear I am reinforcing and moving the line of truth/reality. I don’t like that and it feels real to me.

But true, these are my feelings.

What are the benefits?

We you are already seeing some of them "less big stuff" (yes I know..he is a grouch, he is xyz..) but the epic, shake the relationship to the foundation dysregulations are less..right?

We know...we know... he has a "fire burning inside him", as you become more adept at not "adding fuel" to that fire...guess what, his episodes will be less often and less bad (over time).

They are less now. He’s also more distant. I don’t feel much towards him right now either. I’m mad at his behavior and treatment.

I’m responsible for allowing it for so long. Bitter pill.

Full confession: You can find some of my posts where I seem shaken (and I was) after my wife said/did something off the wall.  The issues have become so infrequent that when they happen they are "more shocking" because I'm not used to them. 

What in the old days would have been a 5 (1-10 scale) is now perceived by me as an 8 or so. 

Still...I have my procedures to care for me, not add fuel and amazingly.  "Poof" a few hours later the world is normal again.  I add extra self care for a day, post here perhaps have a call with my P and then I'm back on track.

So..maybe a day detour instead of the weeks off track in the past.


Best,

FF

That makes sense. I agree it’s more shocking.

Add in that I feel like it’s total BS that he even thinks it’s okay to behave that way.

I’m sorry you’ve had to go through this, so glad your experience has helped so many others. Thank you for being willing to share and help.  

[UBPDHelp]

Why not let him deal with his fires?

Seriously...who elected you fire department for him.

Perhaps he likes it hot...

Best,

FF

Hi FF,

Sorry I wasn’t clear. I meant that in the past 5-7 years I’ve been busy dealing with his “episodes” that I wasn’t looking at the true issues. Kind of like the ventriloquist throwing their voice. I was busy looking at the puppet, but didn’t look for where the voice was coming from. There was a manipulator (puppet master) behind the scenes.

I’ve been looking this last year, the past several months with you all helping. Now I see the fire. Some are his alone, some impact family, so if he can’t do (WON’T), then I do.

Interestingly this is the point that I think may break me. Cleaning up messes that I didn’t create and would have never put myself in that position.

It’s funny you say about him liking it hot. He’s told me many times he likes to spend all the money because scrambling makes him feel alive. I don’t like that. But he’s always managed to make enough, but granted with a lot of shifting priorities, that I let him do his thing. But now he doesn’t want to. Okay make a change, but clean up your damn mess first. I’m not doing it. This is the selfish breaking point I’m pondering. Maybe it’s simply different lifestyle choices/thresholds for risk.  Idk. To be decided.

[formflier]

Add in that I feel like it’s total BS that he even thinks it’s okay to behave that way.
 

I doubt any pwBPD "thinks" it's ok to do this.

Hmmmm?  

So then I wonder why they...

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

I doubt any pwBPD "thinks" it's ok to do this.

Hmmmm?  

So then I wonder why they...

Best,

FF

Errr...I get it. I don’t like it. It’s not what I signed up for (at least not knowingly).

Is it wrong now that I know to decide I no longer want to continue?  I simply don’t know that this is how I want to spend the rest of my life.

[formflier]

  There was a manipulator (puppet master) behind the scenes.
 

I get the thought, yet would push back on this analogy a bit.

There is a thread or "feeling" I get from you that your husband is "plotting" this..."thinks" about this...is "intentional" about how he treats you.

Part of "RA" or "Radical Acceptance" is to understand that this is WAAAAAY deeper that "I think I'm going to be an "a hole" or "difficult" to my partner."

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

I agree. This is how I feel. He gets away with it, worse yet is the fear I am reinforcing and moving the line of truth/reality. I don’t like that and it feels real to me.

But true, these are my feelings.

I feel like vanilla ice cream is the best ice cream in the world.   you feel like chocolate ice cream is the best ice cream in the world.   whose feelings are real?   whose feelings are 'right'.    who feels like it's okay to behave this way about our ice cream choices.

the point is both our feelings are real and right.    neither one of us decides to contradict the other with our choices of ice cream.   we just pick the one that feels right to us.

when are you going to stop this obsessive focus on him?    why monitor his next steps?       why measure everything against how much tripping out he is going to do.    are you ready to let go of your denial?

I am not going to excuse his behavior.    text rants,   threats,  screaming obscenities'.   None of that is acceptable.   

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality#2

this is from our detaching board:

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening. When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits. Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

at a certain point understanding becomes rumination,...Rumination is the focused attention on the symptoms of one's distress, and on its possible causes and consequences, as opposed to its solutions.

[formflier]

Is it wrong now that I know to decide I no longer want to continue?  I simply don’t know that this is how I want to spend the rest of my life.

It's 100% ok for you to walk away from this life..this relationship...this behavior.  100% your choice.

Deep down I would work through how it is troubling for you to decide to walk away, but if he decided to divorce it would somehow be better (better might not be best word..maybe "more acceptable")

I certainly have had the same feelings and thoughts, luckily it's been a while.

Yes I have been ready to file for divorce, but those were really for "technical reasons" (control of kids, control of finances...), basically it's a way to get courts involved.

I'll also toss this out there, since it's been a while since we discussed religion.   If there is a religious "angle" where you are thinking it might not be ok to divorce, perhaps we should discuss that in separate thread.  (I'm not recalling how big a role this plays in your life or relationship...so bringing it up)

I do feel it necessary to keep reminding you to "pump the brakes" on divorce mindset.

If 6 months from now you feel the same way AND you are much healthier AND the relationship still hasn't improved, then I might not remind you.

My gut says there is still some "shock" at "looking behind the curtain" and actually seeing the "Wizard of Oz" (hoping this analogy works).

It is shocking..

It also can change

Change will take a long time and is not "in a straight line".

Change may or may not be for what you consider "better".

It is shocking...

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

I get the thought, yet would push back on this analogy a bit.

There is a thread or "feeling" I get from you that your husband is "plotting" this..."thinks" about this...is "intentional" about how he treats you.

Part of "RA" or "Radical Acceptance" is to understand that this is WAAAAAY deeper that "I think I'm going to be an "a hole" or "difficult" to my partner."

Best,

FF

I’m grasping this enough that I can explain it. It’s hard to visualize during the times when he functions well enough. I question which person he is. It’s definitely confusing.

I don’t think he’s planning ahead or even plotting. I think he has go-to things he says and does when he feels poorly and I am the usual recipient. They’ve worked for him. Were they projection? Stress reliever? Both?  Idk. But, true, I used to think he spent days stewing these things and then unleashing. Now I see it as something else.

He’s back to not wanting to fight the last few weeks and mostly not acting out towards me. I don’t believe it will continue. He also won’t leave the house except for very short controlled trips.

I just need a break. And I’m not going to get it n

[UBPDHelp]

I feel like vanilla ice cream is the best ice cream in the world.   you feel like chocolate ice cream is the best ice cream in the world.   whose feelings are real?   whose feelings are 'right'.    who feels like it's okay to behave this way about our ice cream choices.

the point is both our feelings are real and right.    neither one of us decides to contradict the other with our choices of ice cream.   we just pick the one that feels right to us.

Except this isn’t ice cream. But, I totally get what you’re saying and honestly, I have said no less than a million times that so and so can feel how they feel when he’s tried to assign another’s feelings for them.

And, I might like vanilla and you like chocolate, BUT he likes mud with dead worms and glass shards. I’m just saying.

when are you going to stop this obsessive focus on him?    why monitor his next steps?       why measure everything against how much tripping out he is going to do.    are you ready to let go of your denial?

I don’t know. I’m trying.

I don’t care about his next steps except how they negatively impact me and our kids. Other than that, he can do what he wants. But, his decisions often impact us.

I’m getting better about the tripping out. There are a lot of things that I’ve let him deal with and not stuck around for the party. But there are so many and some I know will be big and I just can’t always muster dealing with the fall out.

Idk about denial.  Where do you see this?

Inability to fully comprehend his disorder and which behaviors constitute disorder or just plain a$$hole?

Unless there’s something I don’t know, I don’t think I’m in denial. I think I may not be totally clear. I know there’s something wrong. I know I have a hand in it. What to do about it is not totally revealed to me yet.

That said, maybe I’m in denial about my denial. Maybe I don’t understand the perspective or terminology.  I totally see this is a very messed up situation and I have blame. Other than not fully understanding yet, what am I missing?

I am not going to excuse his behavior.    text rants,   threats,  screaming obscenities'.   None of that is acceptable.

Agree  

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality#2

this is from our detaching board:

at a certain point understanding becomes rumination,...Rumination is the focused attention on the symptoms of one's distress, and on its possible causes and consequences, as opposed to its solutions.

I agree. I have been ruminating. Partially because I am a slow decision maker. Partially because I knew I couldn’t do anything about it right now anyway and too much free time.

Partially because I’m afraid to make a misstep and it’s not just my future.

But, I have been making plans, not fully formed and still have some prep to do.

Trying to shift the focus. Really trying to take actionable steps.

Please share any insight I am still missing. Be blunt.  

Thanks BabyDucks.

[formflier]

Partially because I’m afraid to make a misstep and it’s not just my future.
 

Likely this is going to come out more blunt that I intend...so..."pad this" when you read it.

You will make missteps.  That's life.  It's especially true with a pwBPD involved. 

One perspective about "learning tools" is so you are confident that when you make a booboo, you can be confident that you know where the "broom" is and he "dustpan" and you can go about the business of cleaning up the booboo and the moving forward.

Note:  The tools are not about avoiding missteps, although it is likely that consistently applying tools and lessons will result in less "missteps"..that's not the point.

Last:  A note about "fear" and being "paralyzed".

Inaction is wonderful if you are being deliberate about "staying put" so that you can be wise and think.

Inaction is toxic when you are not able to decide/act due to "fear" of how it will turn out.

Now, life is really not dichotomous as in "fear/no fear", so please imagine this as a spectrum.  I hope you can be deliberate about taking wise steps, even in the face of "fear".

 Best,

FF

[formflier]

Case in point:  I made a major misstep today.

I know that my wife is not a wise one to call about advice about my Mom.  When I was stressed about my r/s with my Mom...I called my wife.  (not a thoughtful decision..I just did it)

My wife starting blaming me for "battling" with my Mom and that I should "stop the battle" and do whatever my Mom says.

At this point I realize my booboo, reached in my tool chest and disengaged from the conversation I unwisely started.

Then I did some further self care.

I cleaned up the mess I made.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Likely this is going to come out more blunt that I intend...so..."pad this" when you read it.

You will make missteps.  That's life.  It's especially true with a pwBPD involved.  

Thanks FF.  I can accept that in the day to day I will make mistakes.

I guess the bottom line is that I want my life back.  Pre-pandemic, 10 years ago, most of the time things were tolerable. Good outweighed bad. Dysregulations crept in more and more starting 5-7 years ago. I did not understand what was happening. There were outside issues (work stress) that I attributed to his behavior.  While those issues were real, his responses were more outrageous than made sense. And yet, I just believed it was the work stress and would pass. This past year has been near constant.  I don’t know what caused this, nor do I really care, despite trying to make sense of which way is up.

Since that time there has been a “feeling” permeating, that walking on eggshells feeling. This is where the “throwing voices” example comes into play. I didn’t understand why or what. I was busy listening to the voice but not focusing on where it was coming from. I took things at face value. He says this — that’s what he means. A lot of time believing what he said. It didn’t make sense.  It was extreme. It was confusing. I made it so much worse.

But, understanding so much more now, the not making sense makes more sense.

There is, however, no time alone truly to think things through. He’s not going back to work. He does some work from home a bit during the day. Keeps talking about changing jobs. I just let him talk. Every third time I ask what he’s thinking of doing. Usual response is quit and let me pay for everything with my new job. I couldn’t.

And so you see, the things he does will impact me. If he quits (not like he’s not two and a half months behind on pay as it is), we lose everything. I know if he goes this route, it will be over. But, I’m trying to make a decision of it’s own value, not forced into it. But I can’t get enough time and space to think clearly.

Bottom line, the constant turmoil he puts me in is simply no longer tolerable. And I know I’ve allowed it. I had hope things could return to normal.  They can’t.

I’m not able to rent an apartment yet. No job for a few months.  So my hope is to work for a few months and gather some resources so I can get a place. Willing to keep working on tools and myself during this time, but I honestly don’t have much hope there will be any improvement. But I will try.

Even if the tools bring improvement, the damage has been done. It would take more than just being better. There would need to be ownership and I think we both know that won’t happen.

One perspective about "learning tools" is so you are confident that when you make a booboo, you can be confident that you know where the "broom" is and he "dustpan" and you can go about the business of cleaning up the booboo and the moving forward.

Note:  The tools are not about avoiding missteps, although it is likely that consistently applying tools and lessons will result in less "missteps"..that's not the point.

I make plenty of mistakes. I fix or accept and move on. When making a mistake on tools/H, I do try to reset and move on. I can accept it’s not perfect. I suspect the sheer number of land mines coupled with being on stay at home orders has really forced constant focus the last three months. I’d give anything to have so space away to clear my head. He just won’t return to new normal.  

Last:  A note about "fear" and being "paralyzed".

Inaction is wonderful if you are being deliberate about "staying put" so that you can be wise and think.

Inaction is toxic when you are not able to decide/act due to "fear" of how it will turn out.

To this point it has been deliberate. Really trying to understand (focus on what he is doing to understand why (ha!).  Deliberate in putting together a plan. A lot of pieces. Two younger — switching schools, friends, one very connected to dad.  One just graduated into pandemic world...wants to launch, now also competing as a recent grad, little experience against millions more than usual that have more experience. What does my need right now do to kid two?  Kid two doesn’t  want to do anything around/with dad (new revelation, sadly could only share now). Big eye opener. But then I’m adding more disruption to an already challenging time. Oldest is employed at a job that I am fairly certain boss has NPD/BPD. Family business and does things that are so similar to H it is unreal.  Kid one and I have discussed that they may be able to handle boss better than others because came with experience. H says boss is a psycho, but never sees the behaviors are the same. Kid one is looking for new job and once pandemic is over/reopened, has own place to go to. 

So, what I want impacts my kids.

If I go, H will run a cycle of him not wanting to divorce, to attempts at total destruction. I need to be prepared for the assault.

So deliberate planning and deciding...but fearfully aware of being stuck in inaction from my own inability and/or stuck for pandemic.

Despite everything he has said and done, I believe he will be totally surprised. Please tell me why...

Now, life is really not dichotomous as in "fear/no fear", so please imagine this as a spectrum.  I hope you can be deliberate about taking wise steps, even in the face of "fear".

 Best,

FF

That is my hope too.  I’m still mulling. Getting close and part of my working plan is making sure the new job is a fit. I need it. It provides some level of independence. 

Thanks FF.