my uBPDh periodically flips

[snowglobe]

Hello all, in continuation with my previous post- my uBPDh periodically flips, and demands “he sells the matrimonial home”. Just because... .he rationalizes that he wanted to sell for a while, our house is getting older, it will need more maintenance and repair, he wants to purchase something better, bigger, or... .when his crypto business suffers losses he claims we can no longer afford it. Both things are equally untrue:
1. We can’t afford anything better, his business is at the loss, no substantial amount of money is coming in. The money that he accumulated over the years of running his business are in a firm of crypto currency. I never had an access to it, nor did I ever have a vote “at the table” of what to do with it. He was managing it, accumulating it and storing it. It’s unlikely he will sell anything, as his “magical” thinking is telling him that at some point crypto will recover. I’m not at all optimistic in that regard.
2. Our current mortgage is less then rent of a one bedroom apartment. We can afford it, even if we fell on harder times, I could get a job and we would make it work.
Upon alalyzing the information I have reasonable evidence to believe that the two real reasons my husband wants to force me to sell the house is to reinstate total dominance, control and obidinece (his accusations are; “you don’t believe in me, you don’t support me, if you believed in me you would have done as you are told”)
2. He wants to use this money as an investment, or purchase more crypto currency. He had lost all of his investments previously. This crypto market is especially troublesome for me. Until there will be some solid laws and regulations in place, my uBPDh can take off with our money to the country of his origin, they don’t have extradition agreement.
In any regard, I’m resolute on upholding my boundary, which isn’t a boundary at all. I’m ok upsizing (if he shows me the numbers) or downsizing (first conditionally buying and then selling our current home). What I won’t do- is blindly sell the house and give him the money. If he chooses to leave, I have enough money to last me for several months. I can also get a job, sue him, the options are all there. I don’t want things to get that far, but I’m certain I won’t make this sacrifice. I won’t do something I’m being forced to just to prove to him I love him. I’m not that 17 yo girl anymore.
We are in February and he is talking about going on sale in April/May. Not going to happen unless he sits down to talk and compromise. I’m not responding to his conversations about the sale, as I decided that until he asks me to talk about it, I won’t even acknowledge it or make it part of my reality. Forcing a house sale is a lengthy process that has to go through court, I won’t end up on the street tomorrow. Albeit to my decision, my contempt with him is growing, so is my dissatisfaction with the relationships. I’m hurting and I’m also annoyed.
How do I start building my fences around this issue. Yes to sale, but xyz conditions have to be met... .

[Cat Familiar]

I don't know what real estate is like in your country, but with obtaining loans, carrying costs of selling and purchasing, property tax basis, and the cost of moving, etc., the reality is that it costs less in the U.S. to stay in a home you currently own, given that you have an affordable mortgage or have paid it off, than to buy something new, even if the new home costs less than your current one.

And as you know, I don't think your husband would be happy with a lesser home than you currently own. Since you cannot afford anything better, putting yourself at risk financially when his income doesn't warrant that, doesn't seem like a sound plan.

How about just saying NO?

[snowglobe]

  Cat Familiar

No, is the answer I have when approaching it logically, methodically as well as my intuition. I’m solid on “no”, yet I don’t say it out load. I’ve already expressed to him that I’m not doing it unless the above mentioned conditions are met. Yet, he keeps on pressing me, once. A manner :”I’m selling the house in April/May, if you don’t comply I will move out and leave you scrambling for finances. The reason why I don’t respond to him at the moment is :it’s still some time away, I don’t know if I should start a stand off when so many things may change, his mood is one of them for example. It looks as if my unpdh had lost his center of gravity. Three years ago even he was very concerned with our son’s diagnosis, d15 sports career and our relationships (he was pressing the levers then, make no mistake about it).
I’m just trying to figure out the right approach about this. He uses many subjects to try and evoke a reaction out of me. Tbh I’m actually waiting for the moment that he is high, which I anticipate is coming soon, although he has been clean since November 5th. It’s my only window of opportunity to be heard and seen. I’m also questioning the validity of such relationships. Where does it leave me, if the only time my opinion matters is when the person is intoxicated?. I find out more about his past, feelings and hopes when he is high for 24 hrs then in 6 months of living and cohabitation with him.
The price of not following may be very high, the stakes are high- he may walk. On thyme other hand, if I go along, put my children through moving and sabotaging their lives as well as mine, if he looses this money or starts manipulating me, I will further resent him and the outcome will still be the same. At least in this case I’m honouring what is actually good for me, as opposed to blindly following his demands.

[Cat Familiar]

You talk about "conditions" and to me, that means "wiggle room" for him to try and manipulate you into doing something you don't want to do.

First of all, what do you want? Do you want to stay where you are, with an affordable mortgage?

Secondly, do you really want to get a better house, when you don't have the income to support it?

Thirdly, what benefit would there be in downsizing?

You need to get clarity on what you want, and then you can present a resolute front and you won't waver.

I speak from experience. I used to be wishy washy, "Whatever you want, Dear." That often ended up with unforeseen bad results. Now I know what I want. I'm not afraid to say, "No, I don't want that" and hold my ground.

That's the thing with dealing with pwBPD. Often they really don't know what they want. Better that you do and do what's best for you and the kids, because that's not how he's thinking. Someone has to advocate for a stable home for the children and since that's not him, it's up to you.

[snowglobe]

Cat,
He has resources in crypto currencies, if he sells it and reduces a new mortgage, or able to share his shares in a now-sinking-ship- company I would love to move to a new home. It would be absolutely delightful. Having said that, I also see a benefit in downsizing. Not having any mortgage, is a bonus that would take some stress off. The third option is staying put until something changes is acceptable. Like I said, I’m open to a discussion and weighing the options. What I won’t have is a sale and then basically homelessness. I don’t have an income yet, nor would I have funds for rent. Selling this home would be equivalent of an enslavement for me. It would completely remove all leverage when it comes to decision making.
He started texting me from downstairs very well knowing I’m upstairs in our bedroom: “what is an outstanding amount we owe on a mortgage?”. I came down and replied what the amount was. He seemed taken aback, but it should be a lesser number. The numbers he was producing aren’t something to do with reality. I calmly reminded him that he spent his money on obtaining even more crypto currency, even though it’s loosing its value daily. He seemed to take it in, then reply:” I hope this house will sell soon for xyz amount of money”. I said that I had to get back to cleaning upstairs and walked away.
All of our exchange seemes to revolve around him in some way mentioning the sale. I ask “how is the weather” - I hope we sell the house
We drive by our neighbourhood “ I hope we sell the house for xyz.
At the most inappropriate and random times. When I breathe deep and try to think about it, I recognize him trying to establish control and dominance. This isn’t about the house. This is about him taking away something he knows is important for me. It’s about a cookie that a child isn’t supposed to have before dinner. All of his rationals “everything breaks in this freaking house” is a nonsense. He is either talking about his weight loss or about the sale of the house. I feel like I’m suffocating and choking. There isn’t a room for anyone else, he isn’t interested in what I have to say, feel or do.
Cat, the longer he is backing me into the corner, the more solidified I feel about not allowing the sale to go through.
Do any of you know- if we share minor children, (if he decides to choke us financially I will clearly ask for the full custody and spousal support) is it true that the matrimonial property is decided by the number of immidiate residents? Meaning if I stay with the children, I will have 3/4 of the house and he will have 1/4?
Here I’m again, always ending up in the same corner, thinking of how to protect myself and the children  

[Notwendy]

I wrote in the last post about boundaries. Boundaries are not something we impose on the other person. Boundaries are about our core values, the things we will not budge on no matter what. However, we may also pay a cost for our boundaries: the other person may not like them, and they may act out or even leave us. We don't have to judge a person's boundaries- each person is different.

Cat mentioned "wiggle room" and when there is something to negotiate, then it isn't a firm boundary. I would not call the house issue a boundary-but a preference and what you are asking is how do I deal with this disagreement- "he wants to sell and I don't."

Everyone has boundaries and they can be different for different people. I think I can identify a couple of yours- your non-negotiables. One is your commitment to your religion. You may not be openly practicing but you strongly identify with who you are and that doesn't change no matter what your H says or does. That's a boundary.

Another one that I mentioned is your marriage. You want to stay married no matter what. However - that one is a bit tougher because to stay married- your H has to want to stay married too, and it's not possible to control someone's wishes, so you spend a lot of energy trying to control his.

Another is stability. Because of how you were raised, you want stability for your family. The house is a part of that.

The conflict in the moment is that, your H wants to sell the house and you don't. You have some negotiables but I agree with Cat- that muddies the decision. Giving negotiables is room for manipulation.

You know how your H responds to when you disagree with doing what he wants. He threatens divorce. Are you able to stand up to that?

As to the legal question you have about selling- if you sell any house, it involves a real estate lawyer. If it's in both your names, you will have to sign legal documents on the sale. Once cash is in your H's hands, he can do whatever he wants with it, you have no control over that. The only thing you can control is your signing a document. He can't make you do that, but he can threaten you with divorce and manipulate you into doing that.

Your boundary here is this: I will not sign a paper. You don't have to pick up the pen and sign. That's the part you can control- it's your hand. Your H's behavior - what he says, does, threatens is not something anyone can control.

I don't know the answer to what rights you have to the house in your area, but a lawyer does. You've been advised to seek a lawyer to find out your rights if your H follows through with his " I'll divorce you and leave you in poverty" threats. This has not been something appealing to you as it brings up your wish to not be divorced. The suggestion was not about the choice of divorce, it was to take the fear factor out of the threats- to see if there is any truth in it, so you would not be so scared of them. None of us are lawyers and we don't know the custody, rights to house answers in your area- but a lawyer would and I still think it's a good idea to ask a lawyer the "what if" question when threatened with divorce. It does not mean you will initiate it.

[snowglobe]

NotWendy and Cat,
Thank you for your replies. I am processing them st the moment as well as my own feelings about it. With his constant brainwashing I started feeling like I’m living in a rental property that my landlord will kick me out of soon. I’ve given up so much of my own power that the things he tells me start feeling real, as if they already happened. I have not slept much, although sleep is the only luxury I can afford to gain some much needed rest for my brain.
I’m struggling with the establishment and announcement of the boundary. For that reason I have ordered the essential guide for BPD, the one Randi wrote about last night.
I’m trying to secure allies, so it would be easier to hold on to the boundary. I spoke to his partner last night to see if things were as bad as my uBPDh is projecting them on to me. Yes and no. He is using the same control and “fog and mirrors technique with his partner to covertly persuade his (partner) to purchase the crypto currency onto their line of credit. Gambling mentality. He is chasing his losses everywhere he can.
At the end of the day- stability, the only end goal I’m chasing for our family, is as far as I once imagined it to be. With all of my compliance, empathy, compassion, team playing, I’m no closer to living out my end goal.
Boundary isn’t about uBPDh, it’s about me protecting my and my children’s interest. The same way a country would protect its borders, citizens and economic interests.
Keep me in your prayers please, as I know I will need them.
I won’t be discussing his desire to sell, until I see that the time is approaching and his is resolute about the sale. He talked many times about relocating to another city for work, kicking out my mom, none of that took place. He also talked about wanting a separate bedroom set upon our return. As soon as I moved out from our bedroom, those conversations have stopped.
The major theme here is control and forcing it into submission. My husband is an emotionally and physically violent man. His demands, threats and tactics can be compared to emotional rape every time. Once he establishes his domination, he is placid for a while

[Notwendy]

I think it's a good idea for you to not mention it. The moment you tell him- he will start working to back you down. I think you are correct that it's about power. He may not even be able to sell the house. Threatening to do it is similar to threatening divorce- it gets you into a situation where he can establish power over you.

I'd also not say anything now because of the timing. The longer he wears you down - the more you will just cave in.

I've seen similar dynamics with my BPD mom. She has made all kinds of "threats" none of them have materialized, but if you oppose her, she will then begin to work at the boundary. In the end, I think it is all about power and setting up a situation where she can do this.

I have learned that when she says something, it is best to not say something oppositional or react unless she takes absolute steps to do so. I have fallen into this with her before, and it has created a lot of drama, family drama. In the long run, I wonder if she ever intended the threat in the first place.

I saw similar dynamics with my father. She'd demand something outrageous. He'd try to oppose it. Eventually he'd give in as she would just wear him down. He would just be submissive to keep the peace. I do think it was about power.

I've stood up to her before and she's pitched a fit, but after I've endured a few fits, and not backed down, she's realized her behaviors don't work for me. But standing up to her had a cost- that cost was my father's anger at me. It was very difficult.

This is why I learned there can be a cost to standing up for a boundary. We do have to consider this. However, there's also a cost to appeasing. It's a tough choice.

As always- self care is key. Try to sleep, take care of yourself.

[snowglobe]

  Notwendy

I feel like you completely understand the place I’m coming from, just ignore his nonsense, while he takes. If I see a realtor st my door, then I will have to react and have that conversation. Until he actually starts taking active steps- it’s all talk. I’ve spoken to his partner about cautioning him against borrowing from their company’s line of credit. My uBPDh isn’t coming from a sound place. However he will be responsible for the half of that loan.
What is wrong with me that I have no self esteem and understanding that I’m at least worth normal human treatment?. I get bits and pieces and I feel like I’ve won a lottery.

[Notwendy]

I'm in no position to say for sure, but I wonder if there isn't some Stockholm syndrome aspect to your feelings.

There was a time when my H wasn't treating me well and my own self esteem was very low. I was used to looking outside myself for self esteem. Through a series of events ( one was my father's death, the other- working on co-dependency) I have gained an inner sense of self esteem. Many of us have made suggestions to you on how to do this.

Each time I compromised my own core values in hopes of making someone I cared about think positively of me, I chipped away at my self esteem. In 12 steps they would call this looking at someone else as our higher power. It's a form of idolatry. Your self worth comes from your Creator, not anyone else, and when you put it in the hands of a disordered person, you are diminishing your own self worth.

I would suggest a reality check- contact with other people- your counselor, a 12 step group. One reason I suggested a lawyer for the divorce/sell threats is to know if it is even possible for him to carry out his emotional wishes. Family law in your area might have it that he can't divorce you and take all the money leaving you in the streets. He may not even qualify as a home buyer with his unstable financial situation. It also takes time to list a home, view the home, sell the home, get it inspected etc. He can't just do it and you don't have to do it for him. If you knew his threats were not as feasible as he says they are, you may not be in such fear of them. Talking to a lawyer to get facts is not the same as initiating a divorce. Nobody can make you do that and the members of this board will not tell you to do that.

The more you act like his servant with benefits, the more you will hurt your self esteem, because, as you said- this isn't working to get you to the goals you want. First, you have to connect with who you are, your higher self, and learn some self love, because you are worthy of that.

If we choose to live with someone with disordered thinking, I think we do need a lot of contact with the outside world. We need to stay emotionally stable and have a footing in reality. I saw this with my father. He did pretty well when we kids were older and yet still at home. He had to have contact with us, our friends, the friends' parents and he also had his career. Where I saw him start to act like he was more "Stockholm" like was when he was retired and home more with BPD mom. Still, he got out every day and did something for himself. When he got sick, he was mostly home with her 24/7 listening to her talk about her feelings  and his reality seemed to match them. He didn't act like himself anymore. He was the emotionally more stable one when we were children. Our well being depended on this. Your kids are young. They need you to be a sane parent. You've been leaving to travel with your H and have been with him constantly- living in his world of feelings. Taking the time to be with your kids, go to school, meet other people ( not romantically), eventually be employed if possible - will help you see a larger picture. None of these things will have anything to do with the idea of divorce. It's OK to take care of you.

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy has given you some great advice. Please re-read her posts.

And have a consultation with a lawyer so you know your rights.

Even if you could get him to agree to buy another house, he might put it in his name only and then your rights would be severely compromised.

And what's to keep him from gambling away all the money should your house sell?

You currently have power. You don't have to agree to sell the house. You don't have to sign a real estate agreement.

Don't throw that power away trying to appease a man who has a history of unstable behavior.

[snowglobe]

I’m in a midst of a powerful emotionally charged storm. I want to cry, yell, accuse and hurt my uBPDh as much as he is hurting me. It just suddenly dawn on me today that none of my needs are being met in this relationships. I want tell him to shove his money where the sun don’t shine, and that life doesn’t revolve around him, his weighloss journey, his financial losses, his misery, of his wants and wishes. There are other people around him that feel, need and want something too. I’m being constantly rejected sexually,  it’s ok when it’s episodal, I’m looking at more of 9 out of 10 times. This sexual frustration is building up, taking a life of its own. I feel like I’m ready to start climbing walls, it’s both humiliating and embarrassing for me to admit. I’m also being disregarded, interrupted mid sentence. No questions about me, my day, my interests, my worries, I don’t exist. It’s all about him, and me caretaking to him. Last night I found out that the is a linkage between breast implants and cancer. I wanted to talk about it, I was concerned, still am. I got the surgery in 2011 to bring myself closer to his ideal image of me. He shut me up and didn’t want to listen. I’m being denied financially, he hides his income and assets from me. My feelings, moods or states don’t influence him in any way. What am I holding on to?
I’m afraid I won’t be able to control myself and I will shout this in his face. I’m afraid it will get physical. I left the room to try and study for an exam, and allow some space between us to calm myself down. It’s not working. I’m angry, I’m hurt, I want revenge. I want to inflict the same amount of pain I’m currently in. I also know it backfires. If I do something damaging to him, I will suffer too, as it’s a form of self harm. I sit in this agony, realizing that he doesn’t love me, he never did.

[Notwendy]

This is one reason I suggested returning to your CODA group. I think it's important to feel your feelings, but this isn't always easy. Both of you ( and I can speak from experience ) manage your uncomfortable feelings by "escaping". Your H through his acting out ,drugs, spending, and you by caretaking and focusing on him. It was helpful to me to have a sponsor to call- to help me process the times I was feeling angry, hurt, and other feelings.

I think you know that acting out, in a hurtful way to your H backfires. My own description for this is that it's like peeing into the wind. It all comes back on you. This is because it just doesn't work well with someone who tends to project their own bad feelings. If you did act on it, well, it happened. You're human, but I hope instead you can take this anger into positive action- do something positive for yourself. Take the focus off your H and on to you. This may not be easy- you are used to focusing on him.

[snowglobe]

Wendy,
I managed and this is how it unfolded. I left to another room to study for the upcoming exam, things were meshing up in my head, but I deligently pushed through. He came to the bedroom and asked me why I was mad. I snapped and told him to use his brain, unhelpful, I know. He laid down beside me, held my hand, stroked it and wanted to be close the entire night. He held me the entire night. Before drifting off to sleep he was talking about buying something nice for me. What?. What is the pattern? Me pulling away, being mad and angry and him now trying to placate me?. I’m confused

[Notwendy]

Who knows. He has several ways of gaining your attention and distracting you. You weren't focused on him when you were studying. Studying is a positive step for you and I hope you stay focused on it.

Keep your focus on your values and goals, not his ever changing moods. You can see how he gains your attention, either by upsetting you or placating you.

Beware of the "I will buy you something nice". It's easy to spend money to gain affection or attention. It's harder to treat someone kindly and be a decent person. Don't sell him short by allowing him to buy whatever he wants from you. If he's to live up to this, he needs to not be given the easy way out.

You were raised in poverty and you equate him buying nice things for you as a form of love. What you really want is security. Security is consistent- not this up/down erratic purchasing behavior where at one point he gets you a luxury car or a European vacation and in a snap says he's putting you out on the streets. One moment he's "rich" on crypto and the next moment he's broke.

If you say no thank you, he'll day you're emasculating him. Is what he's doing being a man, or buying love. There's another word for buying sex and attention. Saying you are emasculating him is manipulation. He knows he's a man ( or should have figured that out by now).

Please don't allow yourself to be bought. Security is a different thing and offering to buy you something in exchange for a sexy time is not security. Your dignity is not for sale.

Consider replying " I love you honey but I don't want a fancy gift right now, thank you". If there is going to be a chance for him to elevate his behaviors- it will come from you keeping the standard you wish he would have.

[Cat Familiar]

What is the pattern? Me pulling away, being mad and angry and him now trying to placate me?. I’m confused

You're seeing the "pull" part of the push/pull cycle. Typically you've tried to appease him so you haven't experienced this part. Since pwBPD are anxious about being abandoned, he was trying to make sure that you were still in his "camp".

This shows that you have more power in the relationship than you think. You can assert yourself and hold firm to your values. You just don't have experience yet in doing that. You still think of yourself as that frightened teenage girl. You've outgrown that self-image. Time to accept your power as a woman.

I know you've got a lot to do with taking care of two kids, school, the house, etc., but you've been ignoring our suggestions to get legal advice and go to codependency groups. Knowing what your rights are in your country would lessen your anxiety. And having a support group would give you much needed strength.

[gotbushels]

I'd like to support your discussion here. I haven't much to add beyond the great advice you received.

It seemed to me that you wanted to assert your boundaries using physical space. So you stepped into the other room.

I left to another room to study [... .] things were meshing up in my head, but I deligently pushed through.

I think this is important. Sometimes when we're being emotionally engaged and try to do things we want (here, establishing the limit of not discussing something you feel strongly about), it's harder to push through--it's easy to slide back into our old ways. I think you can pat yourself on the back for that one.

He came to the bedroom and asked me why I was mad. I snapped and told him to use his brain, unhelpful, I know.

If you're upset, then sometimes you're going to want to argue. For me, when I'm trying to maintain a limit on something, I try to manage myself first--it's helped me heaps to help myself to access the self-compassion to avoid doing things I may regret later. When you turned to him, it seemed you were dissatisfied with doing this. I think it's alright sometimes to not perfectly handle ourselves in a huff.

You seem like you've done your homework on this issue of selling the property. You've considered what it means for you in the long term, you've addressed how it's a priority factor in maintaining a place to live, you have some ideas on your rights upon it as a spouse. You wanted to set up a fence around your work on this issue, and it seems you've taken steps to get this. So well done on that.

I support the others' suggestions of going to a codependency group--people that are in good positions to give mutual support. I took the advice of a P when I was with my partner. It's all quite complex to so having that relationship was helpful.

[snowglobe]

I have a question about boundaries-
In my case my uBPDh seems to also have grandiose npd, he is trying to make me sell the matrimonial home we currently share so he can “either get a much bigger, better, Newer house, or nothing... .rent and he wants to reinvest those money”. I know that he won’t be able to find his search criteria for the amount of money he wants to spend. I’ve tried validating and compromising “let’s first conditionally buy and then sell”. But it’s falling on deaf ears.

I want to set the boundary that I won’t sell unless he will sit down and think of a compromise that would work for both of us. Example- downsize, upsize and him investing his savings or staying put. What should be a tactic when he is constantly threatening “if you don’t sell I leave, divorce you and leave you pennyless”. I’m feeling manipulated and abused. Selling and giving in is out of the option, as I know it will surely be a befall of our relationships and financial security. How do I start a conversation with npd hoping for a win win?

[formflier]

No is a complete sentence.

Likely best to ask him to write out his thinking, especially since it's a "business idea" and let him know you will consider it.  Perhaps even ask for him to spreadsheet out how the money will be divided, used.

Likely a good idea to discuss with your therapist a work track to use that would go something like this "I'm not able to discuss important matters when there are threats between us"

See how you didn't accuse him of threatening... but you stated your boundary and then act on it.  Don't talk more about it while there is an unresolved threat.

FF

[formflier]

Hey... I'm adding this after reading the other thread... .I didn't want to divide my advice.

We both know it's all talk.

He can't sell without your signature... you have leverage.  Your signature is yours... .he can't take it, so he is trying to manipulate you.  Realize this for what it is.

Should he actually take action, such as a sign showing up in your yard.  DO NOT TALK TO HIM first.

Post here... talk to your therapist.

Most likely I would advise you to call the listing agent and ask for a copy of the listing agreement.  You would need to know if he listed it without you or if he try to fake/forge you name.

Direct question:  Does he have a power of attorney for you?  Do you have one for him?

You would need to know before you talk/respond to him what he has actually done, which is most likely very different than what he says he has done.  Make sense?

   


FF

[Notwendy]

I think there was a lot of advice on this topic recently on the other thread. I don’t know what else to add. There isn’t a way to compromise with someone who doesn’t want to compromise and tries to manipulate you to get his way. The boundary has to be firmer and tougher to have any hold.

[Cat Familiar]

Speak to an attorney about your rights.

[babyducks]

You are having a circular argument.

You don't need a boundary about the house.    You need a boundary about the circular argument.

a circular argument is one that goes round and round.   where both people are deadlocked in their positions.    where the issue causing the deadlock is much deeper than whatever is being discussed.

stop having the argument.  stop trying to convince him.    stop trying to compromise.    stop.    just stop.    

H:   I want to sell the house and get something bigger,... better... .
you:   We have talked about this and I have no interest in that.
H:  If you don't do what I want I am going to divorce you and leave you without a dime.
you:   I am sorry you feel that way.   AND LEAVE THE ROOM.

if you linger in a circular argument for more than 5 minutes you have been there too long.   and are adding fuel to the fire.

H: I want to sell the house and take the money and invest in this new ... .
you:    Like I have said,   I have no desire to sell the house and move.
H:   You are just being stubborn,  I am in charge of the money in this family.
you:   Oh dear that sounds omnious,  I am going to bake cookies now.  AND LEAVE THE ROOM.

stop engaging with him at his level.

[formflier]

    You need a boundary about the circular argument.

 
stop engaging with him at his level.

This is THE advice to follow.  Tip of the hat to Babyducks for the analysis.

FF

[snowglobe]

  formflier

Thank you for getting to me. He has tightened the screws financially, I ran out of his insurance money for my dbt trained psychologist, and he isn’t giving me access to anything. I barely have enough for food and necessities. What this means is that I have to wait for a lengthy time of going through my family physical, and hopefully getting a referral through medical system route, not a private one. In one word, you guys here are my only source of support and information.

[snowglobe]

  formflier

He does not have a power of attorney, nor I of him. I realize that it’s all talk, but when it’s done daily, and he is making active adjustments to show that he “is boss”, such as significantly decreasing the access to money, it no longer feels like an empty threat.

[snowglobe]

I think there was a lot of advice on this topic recently on the other thread. I don’t know what else to add. There isn’t a way to compromise with someone who doesn’t want to compromise and tries to manipulate you to get his way. The boundary has to be firmer and tougher to have any hold.

Wendy,
I’m perplexed. On Friday he seemed to be running circles around me, on Saturday he wanted my companionship to be with him and our kids, running errands. He went shopping for s11, did d15 hair, and finally got me a present for anniversary (which had past almost a month ago and Valentine’s Day). Yesterday he turned off cable tv for everyone because it’s “too expensive” (1/1000 of what he spent the day before) and went on silent treatment mode out of a blue. Could it be Comorbit bipolar? I just can’t make any sense out of it, whatsoever.

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Cat, that’s it!
That’s the issue that isn’t being discussed. It’s a dead lock and the issue is running much deeper, under that hood of the car. The car is breaking down, yet no one is looking under the hood to see what’s causing those issues.  
More later

[formflier]

Ff,
Thank you for getting to me. He has tightened the screws financially, I ran out of his insurance money for my dbt trained psychologist, and he isn’t giving me access to anything. I barely have enough for food and necessities. What this means is that I have to wait for a lengthy time of going through my family physical, and hopefully getting a referral through medical system route, not a private one. In one word, you guys here are my only source of support and information.

Do you have to pay each time or do they bill you?

Perhaps you can explain what is going on and send your husband the unpaid bills.  

Realize this is manipulation to "make" you sell the home.  He likely realizes it will be easier without a "t" giving you healthy advice.

What does he know about your visits to the T.

FF

[Notwendy]

I have no idea what your H's diagnosis is or how to explain his behavior.

I'm perplexed as to why a new thread was started when there was unanswered advice on the previous one. Dealing with this type of situation is difficult. Any time we stand firm on our boundary, we risk the other person responding in a way that we may not want. There's no win win compromise with someone who won't compromise.

Standing by this boundary will risk your H making divorce threats, using manipulative behavior, cutting your finances ( as he has). IMHO, the only way I know to stand up to these threats is to know your rights. For that, you have to seek a lawyer. With no finances, that means free legal aid- but for information seeking only, that's enough.

12 step groups are of no cost. To gain the support and information these groups offer- you have to attend a meeting.

I think it is good that you can post here, but to gain the strength and support and information you need to stand up for yourself- you need to take action to consult these resources we have recommended.

I've seen this type of behavior before and it is a pattern. My father earned the money in the household. But all the power was with my mother. She spent what she wanted, did what she wanted. My father went into debt as there were no restrictions. She had the finest- the European vacations, the designer clothes, household help. Dad shopped at bargain stores for his clothes. Your H's erratic expensive taste at the expense of your family's security is due to his impulsiveness and need to soothe his ego. Your going along with this is enabling it at the expense of the security you wish for. Your own self worth goes up and down with his spending- but to gain your self worth you have to disconnect it from his expensive purchases.

Sometimes, like you are doing, he would decide that her wants were unreasonable, but in time, he wore down. She knew just what to do to get her way and she did it. He couldn't stand up to her. It was one thing after another- this vacation, this new house, this new ----- whatever it was. She may have been happy with the "new" thing for a  little while, but then it was something else.

I didn't have a name for what she had, but by high school I was looking at psychology books because I knew something was going on. But I didn't try to look up my father. The whole time, I thought it was her, he thought it was her, and we all assumed it was her- because the only focus my father had was on her. Even at the end of his life, all he worried about was her. His last wishes were all about her.

My father had other aspects to his life- he has children and extended family who loved him. But his day to day focus was only on one thing- my mother.

I didn't want to have this situation and went into therapy- loaded with stories about my H did this, and my H did that, and my parents did this and my parents did that.

And the T said " YOU have a problem"  and the problem was co-dependency. I then had a "label" for my father and saw how his co-dependency led him to focus only on my mother, allowing her disordered thinking to lead our family.

I was desperate. I was ready to do anything she said. I didn't worry about my H divorcing me or other issues. I was desperate enough to walk into a 12 step meeting, get a sponsor. Every time I said "my H did this" she turned the mirror on me. I was the problem.

Are you ready to take the focus off your H and on to you- because that is the only person you have any control over. Are you ready to take steps to be able to emotionally withstand your H's threats - by going to a 12 step meeting, getting information. Because that's the only next step I can think of to shift your focus away from your H and on to what you need to do for you. And you are the only one who can choose to do that.

I could advise my father but I was powerless to help him. To see beyond my mother, he had to choose to look. We can support you here, but our advice is not helpful unless you choose to take action for yourself.