Protection Orders: do they work with pwBPD? Part 2

[RolandOfEld]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:   
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=345298.0;all

Thanks lnl, the rocket description fits perfectly.   Radcliff thanks as always for checking in.

I am seeing the kids now since she can't take them to school once she goes back to work next month (she's a teacher). Also I think she just couldn't hack it. She says the kids are living with me now, and I just had them four straight days until she suddenly wanted to see them today and said she'd be picking them up. Since the PO doesn't cover them there's nothing I can do about that. At least I'm seeing them a lot.  

The social worker will visit her tomorrow while she has the kids to observe their interaction. I spoke with the police and court and my long term protection order is in process and we will both be called into court within two months. The officer handling my PO says I should have a detailed, long term PO that covers the kids in place by November at latest. I am also scheduled to see my lawyer next Friday to discuss divorce and custody. It seems me and the kids will have to bear a few more months of this  ridiculous back and forth, though I should be able to have them most of the time when she's working. Her principles only go so far as what's convenient for her.

An interesting development of being truly separated is that I'm finally facing my own mistakes and demons that led me into this situation. Without having her around to blame for all my life problems its put things into much clearer focus. It's painful but liberating at the same time. Did anyone else experience something like that after separating?

- Roland

[kells76]

She says the kids are living with me now

Email? Text? recorded conversation?

Seems like a big deal...

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi, Roland. Yes, after leaving I had to face the issues I had that were both a result of the trauma from the relationship, the dysfunctional patterns I developed from childhood which were largely the reason I got into the relationship (and stayed seven years), and deal with the repercussions from all of that.

It's very difficult, but yes, liberating. I can finally focus on me and my recovery and therapy. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you are devoting energy to yourself. Growth is possible when you start pruning and weeding!

[Shakthi]

Good luck Ronald. I had my forst hearing this morning. It was easy as both lawyers had worked out terms. My husband is getting therapy 4 days a week for substance abuse and mental health issues and a midfulness class. We asked for a continuance, temp restraining order stays in place for 3 months and he gets to see the kids for 5 h every Saturday. I have custody of the kids. I qm dealing with my demons and issues at therapy. Yes, don’t have him to blame for things that are my fault now and we are working through things with my therapist. I am
Not thinking of what after three months right now. For now I am focussing on what I need to do and how to take care of myself.

[Radcliff]

Roland,

Absolutely, in several areas of my life not having the drama and constant stress gave me both the resources to start owning and improving my own issues and took away excuses.  It has been glorious in that regard.  Really a rebirth.

From all of your posts I gather that you're the more stable parent, but that she loves the kids and they benefit from time with her.  Have I got it right?  They seem to stretch her coping past its limits sometimes, though they may become less stressful for her as they get older and if they're benefiting from a stable environment with you.  I don't think you're trying for 100% custody, but you haven't said what you're aiming for.  I think you'd have a very good assessment of what percentage of time they could spend with her, and on what kind of schedule, to give them time with her without pushing her past her limits.  What arrangement would allow her to be as stable a presence as possible in their lives?  This is a question you'll want an answer to as protection order and custody details are being worked out, so that you can do your best to guide things towards the best arrangement.  What are your thoughts on how much time and what schedule would be best?

RC

[RolandOfEld]

Shakthi, that is fantastic news! It sounds like the ideal situation on many fronts, especially the part regarding therapy and behavior classes for your husband. That will be a big help in working with him the future. Really, I am delighted to hear your result, even if it is only temporary. I think three months will be very helpful towards developing a more permanent solution.

Redeemed and Radcliff, thank you for validating my feelings on dealing with our own issues.

I’m terms of the ideal custody situation, it would start from something similar to what Shakthi described, I have full custody but she gets around 5h with them on weekends. I don’t know if she’ll ever be able to offer the kids stability, but she can give them fun and hugs and affection.

Strange development tonight, I asked the kids if they wanted to FaceTime with mom before sleep and they were both terrified at the thought of doing so. I’ve never seen them like that. I think they want to be with me all the time now. I don’t know what to tell their mom. She would think I was lying and trying to keep her from seeing them and would definitely pick them up at school the next day.

Roland

[livednlearned]

I asked the kids if they wanted to FaceTime with mom before sleep and they were both terrified at the thought of doing so. I’ve never seen them like that. I think they want to be with me all the time now.

Is there an expectation or arrangement with mom that they will FaceTime? Did your L say to make these calls happen?

Maybe FaceTime is more transparency than they feel capable of managing right now.

How do you think they'd feel about phone calls or DM/IMs with mom?  

[Radcliff]

It would be nice if we could turn to some impartial expert in these situations who would tell us what's best for everyone.  Unfortunately that person doesn't exist.  I encountered many well-intentioned, qualified people, lawyers, therapists, and others in my journey.  Some of their advice pointed in helpful directions, some in unhelpful, or even harmful directions.  I started to ask you what the social worker thinks about how much time your kids should spend with their mom, and then remembered the fallibility of the folks who support us.  Of course, it's still a good question.  Have you talked to her/him about it?

It's vital for your kids to know that their mom loves them.  They need to know that you support their relationship with her.  An excellent book to read is Overcoming the Co-Parenting Trap: Essential Parenting Skills When a Child Resists a Parent, by Matt Sullivan.  It talks about what the "favored parent" can do to support the child's relationship with the "resisted parent."

Your experience may differ, but I found that my defensiveness and lingering trauma made me reluctant to yield parenting time to my ex until she either took responsibility for what had happened, or a "qualified" expert told me everything was A-OK.  Yielding more time sooner would have been better in my situation.  It sounds like your situation is pretty fluid, and you've not yet secured primary custody of your children, but it may be something to keep in mind.  Be flexible, be willing to work outside of your comfort zone, and be open to adjusting things to allow more time with her as things evolve.

What advice have you gotten from local folks on this issue?

RC

[ForeverDad]

... and I just had them four straight days until she suddenly wanted to see them today and said she'd be picking them up. Since the PO doesn't cover them there's nothing I can do about that. At least I'm seeing them a lot.

I'm glad to hear you're seeing the kids more.  Fortunately circumstances are favoring you.  I thought I'd chime in here about your perspective, actually a perspective all of us share to some extent.  For this illustration, the Father is a member here and the Mother is the disordered parent.

1.  There are no orders.
2.  Mother can get the children regarless what the Father says.
3.  Father cannot get the children whenever the Mother says No.

Do you see the difference?  How does that happen?  Often the parent is so entitled that anything else is blocked, sadly much of society including domestic court enables that perspective.  And we are so very careful to be overly fair and overly nice and overly whatever while the other parent is overly aggressive and overly entitled.

[RolandOfEld]

Dear all, sorry for the slow responses. I’ve been on full time kid duty for around two weeks now and it’s almost impossible to summon the energy to sign on after I’ve got them to sleep.

Lnl they have started FaceTiming again, after their mom offered to by S7 a phone of his own if he did. Yeah that’s terrible on all levels.

RC everyone in my team (counselors, SWs, lawyer) is all onboard for her to have some designated time with them each week. I met with my lawyer two days again to initiate divorce / custody proceedings, and he shared some interesting info, at least relevant to the country I’m in. He said “custody” was a responsibility, not a right, while “visitation” was a right, not a responsibility. His meaning was that even if I get full custody, she still has full rights to see them, unless she was serious to the point of needing to be committed. He also said the divorce / custody part is usually easy - it’s after the lawyers and judges disappear that things get hard in terms of arranging the kids time. Not sure if anyone here’s experience corresponds.

FD that is a very enlightening perspective. In these sorts of relationships all sorts of bizarre logic and entitlements take hold. The only true reason she can take the kids and I can’t is that I would not do something like that- eg disrupt the kids life for my own desire to have them with me. It’s basic moral principles and genuine caring for the kids that chain me, as I think is often the case for many of us. When the other person doesn’t care about the consequences of their actions, they can get away with a lot in the short term.

Right now the question that’s top of mind for me is when exactly the three of us can begin the healing process, eg start seeing our counselor and child counselor to start repairing the damage. Can it happen now while things are still unstable but at least we have a little distance from the center of the trauma? Can I at least get started so I can be a more emotionally present father?

ROE

[Radcliff]

It would be good for all of you to be seeing the counselor regularly starting now.  You all need the support, and you'll need a resource to help you with coping and insights as things evolve.  Congrats on getting so much time with your kids.  It's exhausting, but I'm glad you've got the time!

RC

[livednlearned]

I agree with Radcliff that counseling as soon as possible is a good idea.

I did individual therapy, and my son did individual therapy as early as age 10.

Over time I started to notice that sessions in which I participated with S10 were helpful for both of us, and the different therapists seemed to find it helpful, in part because my son kind of encouraged it and seemed to want the two of us to be together. Not all the time but often enough.

It might be worth asking a therapist if family counseling could be helpful for you and your kids in addition to individual.

There is a lot to unravel in our family dynamics. 

[Radcliff]

Hi Roland, how are things going?

RC

[RolandOfEld]

Hi RC, so sorry for the delayed reply. I would say things overall are going well. I usually like to describe it as having "1000 wonderful problems", meaning I have a lot of challenges but they are all finally in service of a good life. My stbxbpdw makes mischief sometimes in terms of promising to see the kids and then not showing, but overall her impact on my life is minimal. She claims to be starting DBT and alcoholism classes, which I hope to be true. She will soon be served the papers for divorce and custody, two items which can hopefully be settled through mediation rather than going to the judge.

The kids at this point are with me 95% of the time. Being a single dad for real is exhausting but seeing them safe in my house each night is worth the struggle. I burn out but I'm finding helpers and am investing in rest and self-care. 

~ROE