Checking In

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all my friends,

I’m just stopping by to say hi and catch up on things. My new job keeps me busy at EOM and then we got hit with the tropical storm and had no power for 9 days. Lost our generator (tree), H’s car got hit and power lines out. New generator arrived about 3 hours before the power came back on. Had a lot of catch up at work and no time/energy to check in.

Wish I could say my thoughts were clearer, but it’s been so hectic I haven’t really had time to think.

I do think my feelings are settling.

I think I can finally see that you all aren’t my T, but it would be good for me to have someone help me sort my feelings/thoughts out. That’s my next step.

I did have a call with my doctor about an ongoing medical issue, which has brought on several tests.  I’m going to do, but nervous about Covid, so weighing all of that.

Oldest moved back out and that has driven H into some type of depression. He’s mostly not verbally attacking me but he does his partner. Keeps threatening to leave the practice. Stressful and the instability is almost too much. On one hand I feel for him that he feels stuck, on the other I have encouraged him for years to pursue something else that makes him happy. Just so much turmoil.

But, I have gotten better about letting him sort it out and not engage in the  baiting.

For instance, he still will not go back in to work (or a store, or a restaurant or anywhere but the house or car).  I’ve tried to reassure him that no one really goes to his office so it’s not so risky and he can social distance and wash hands, etc.  Not pushing, but reassuring. He then tries to twist that I don’t care what happens to him.

Geesh, if that were true and I thought it was a huge risk that would put my kids and me at risk, then I wouldn’t support it. But, I just tell him that I hear him and he can decide what’s best for him. Or something to that effect.

Anyway, trying not to get distracted with these things.  Working on a T and my physical health too. Will see where I land.

Pray I have some peaceful time to think. Bless you all.

[UBPDHelp]

Hi all my friends,

I’m just stopping by to say hi and catch up on things. My new job keeps me busy at EOM and then we got hit with the tropical storm and had no power for 9 days. Lost our generator (tree), H’s car got hit and power lines out. New generator arrived about 3 hours before the power came back on. Had a lot of catch up at work and no time/energy to check in.

Wish I could say my thoughts were clearer, but it’s been so hectic I haven’t really had time to think.

I do think my feelings are settling.

I think I can finally see that you all aren’t my T, but it would be good for me to have someone help me sort my feelings/thoughts out. That’s my next step.

I did have a call with my doctor about an ongoing medical issue, which has brought on several tests.  I’m going to do, but nervous about Covid, so weighing all of that.

Oldest moved back out and that has driven H into some type of depression. He’s mostly not verbally attacking me but he does his partner. Keeps threatening to leave the practice. Stressful and the instability is almost too much. On one hand I feel for him that he feels stuck, on the other I have encouraged him for years to pursue something else that makes him happy. Just so much turmoil.

But, I have gotten better about letting him sort it out and not engage in the  baiting.

For instance, he still will not go back in to work (or a store, or a restaurant or anywhere but the house or car).  I’ve tried to reassure him that no one really goes to his office so it’s not so risky and he can social distance and wash hands, etc.  Not pushing, but reassuring. He then tries to twist that I don’t care what happens to him.

Geesh, if that were true and I thought it was a huge risk that would put my kids and me at risk, then I wouldn’t support it. But, I just tell him that I hear him and he can decide what’s best for him. Or something to that effect.

Anyway, trying not to get distracted with these things.  Working on a T and my physical health too. Will see where I land.

Pray I have some peaceful time to think. Bless you all.

[formflier]

I think I can finally see that you all aren’t my T, but it would be good for me to have someone help me sort my feelings/thoughts out. That’s my next step.
 

Hang in there, glad to see you posting again.

Not my analogy yet I like it and found it helpful.

Three legged stool. 

1.  A good T
2.  Supportive family/friends (usually that you don't talk to about BPD)
3.  BPDfamily  (the group of friends that "gets it")

That's a stable kinda thing, but if you remove one leg...what happens?

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

It's good to hear from you. I'm sorry about the storm damage -- I live on the Gulf Coast, and we make hurricane tracking a family hobby.

Focusing on a good T fit and your physical health sounds like Northamptonshire right now!

[Cat Familiar]

Glad to hear from you. I was worried, but not for the correct reasons.

I’ve had a variety of experiences with Ts, all good, some better than others, but all were worthwhile. Find someone you click with.

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks FF, GaGrl and Cat,

You are like old friends who tell me like it is but have my best interest at heart.

I like the stool analogy, FF.  I have two, albeit regular support is so limited right now. 

I’ve been looking at different online therapy sites. I found one that seems promising. Not sure I can say site names, so I’ll just say it’s all online, they have different plans and a T checks in daily. The more expensive plans come with either 1 F2F (virtual) session/month or 4 F2F.  Think I would start slow and then ratchet up if it went well.

If anyone has a site they recommend, please PM me, if that’s allowed.

As far as my feelings, I’ve finally accepted (seems pathetic) that I can feel how I feel.  What I can’t wrap my head around is how considering my feelings vs kids works and/or if separation is tough initially, if I keep myself together, over time, that they will bounce back and ultimately be better for it.

And I see H as so broken now. The tough facade just has cracks to whatever is broken. I don’t fault him that, I just don’t know if I can keep trying to make things okay. And then the guilt creeps in. But I want peace in my life.

And please don’t read too much into my words. I’m tired and I truly have the best intentions of all involved at heart. I’m not always eloquent or as clear as I’d like to be.

I think I’m at the point where I’m just confirming that looking out for me doesn’t unfairly disadvantage him, and most importantly the kids.

Guilt.  I’ve worked on some of the things that kept me chained. Better job, damaged credit.  I’ve overcome these and I’ve tried to get him, for years, to participate in financial responsibility and he simply isn’t interested. I feel guilt that I’ve fought to overcome and can be independent and he has not. But I think this was part manipulation to keep me obligated.

And there is fear, but I think much of that is from being told I make poor decisions, etc.  And fear of the torrent of assaults that will be thrown my way. But that’s where I’m trying to gain strength. 

I’ve rambled again.  Just letting you know where I am.  Off to sort this out.

None of this is what I wanted. I can’t have that. Can I make the most of what I can have?  I’m damn well going to try.

Bless you all...you truly are gifts to me.

[babyducks]

Nice to see you posting again.    I am glad you took a break and practiced some self care.

And there is fear, but I think much of that is from being told I make poor decisions, etc.  And fear of the torrent of assaults that will be thrown my way. But that’s where I’m trying to gain strength. 

You know you don't right?    Make poor decisions.   this isn't at all accurate.    you don't really need to spend time on 'am I making a poor decision'.    you could reframe this to 'how can I rebuild my sense of certainty'...  I believe that would be more productive.

the fear of verbal and emotional assaults is natural...the rages of pwBPD/NPD are truly impressive.    and they do generate some hypervigilance.    still you have endured and survived all his previous assaults and you did that with less tools than you have now...   this is a process.   a process of changing thinking to what works better for you.    he will, some time again ... emotionally dysregulate... he is untreated and stressed and it is bound to happen.    what is important is NOT that he dysregulates but what you think and do and feel about it...  what is your plan to handle it... how do you protect yourself and your kids... how do you minimize the conflict.     the focus is on you...  not on whatever he is dysregulating about.

'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

Nice to see you posting again.    I am glad you took a break and practiced some self care.

You know you don't right?    Make poor decisions.   this isn't at all accurate.    you don't really need to spend time on 'am I making a poor decision'.    you could reframe this to 'how can I rebuild my sense of certainty'...  I believe that would be more productive.

the fear of verbal and emotional assaults is natural...the rages of pwBPD/NPD are truly impressive.    and they do generate some hypervigilance.    still you have endured and survived all his previous assaults and you did that with less tools than you have now...   this is a process.   a process of changing thinking to what works better for you.    he will, some time again ... emotionally dysregulate... he is untreated and stressed and it is bound to happen.    what is important is NOT that he dysregulates but what you think and do and feel about it...  what is your plan to handle it... how do you protect yourself and your kids... how do you minimize the conflict.     the focus is on you...  not on whatever he is dysregulating about.

'ducks

Thanks ‘ducks,

Always happy to hear from you even though it makes me cry almost every time. They’re not sad tears or happy tears. They are some combination of resignation tears, enough is enough tears and I deserve better tears.

Knowing that he will dysregulate again is accepted. It’s also one big part of the decision I’m facing. As you all know, these are not typical squabbles or outbursts. They are outright assaults to the soul. When you’re in it, especially (I think) when it comes rapid fire/continual, you just do protective.

The boundary coupled with understanding of JADE has diminished his huge outbursts and definitely in the previous subject matter. Having some space from that has let me gain the perspective that it doesn’t matter, it was never okay EVEN IF anything he said had been true.

Next steps are coming. Definitely after some gut checking with a T. I have a compass, I’m just not sure it points due north, so gonna get it checked. All the while, getting my “ducks” in a row 

It’s still weird that I focus on him. I’m trying and am spending time on what I want. I’ve stopped putting my feelings aside and have been doing things how I want. Pandemic has maybe made this easier as I get baby steps since bigger things are limited. But, I still haven’t been able to fully stop considering what he’s doing. From another perspective, I think it’s just trying to gauge how I feel about those things and whether his behavior aligns with my values anymore.

Clearly the dysregulations do not. Do the increased political rants and disdainful perceptions of others work for me. No. I have distaste for some political things and some people.  Outright contempt, no. Respectfully disagree. But entitled to own opinions.

Strangely (or maybe not), he professes to not be racist (and sometimes says I am (I am not) and how nice he is to everyone. Idk, I just don’t think it works for me anymore. Did he change (or did the facade just crack wide open) or did I?  Idk. I wanted to be somewhere else in life. He doesn’t want to go there. I think I have to go anyway.

Thanks ‘ducks.

If anyone has had a good experience with any online T site, I’d love a rec. Or, some clues what to look for. For instance, 2 of the 3 Ts on the site had 1 year of experience. (FYI, there are a ton of T, these were narrowed after a series of Qs).  Not sure that’s enough, but also may have most recent knowledge/research. Thoughts?

[formflier]

It's important to find a T that you "click" with.  Said another way, someone that you feel at ease being open...completely open with.

Quick FF story.  I've had a number of Ts over the years (lots of moves and lots of my wife charging into a T situation and then backing out).  Never a bad one (thankfully) but I liked some more than others.

Well my current T (that I call a P because she is PhD level psychologist) really clicked with me.  She's in her 60s and has had long career.  After a while she revealed to me that one of the reasons she has invested so much time in me is that she has personal experience being married to a paranoid spouse (my wife is much more PPD than anything). 

So she gets it personally and professionally. 

Also...her manner is has an uncanny resemblance to my Grandma (Dad's Mom).  They both have this way of a wise woman that can convey life truths (many of them hard) without it being upsetting.  You could talk about anything with Grandma, her manner and the milk and cookies just made everything ok.

So, while I would be concerned that a 1 year experience T would be a good fit...if you "click" with them, I wouldn't run away just because of 1 year experience.

Clarity:  I really hope you can find someone that has been around for a while and I bet you can...personality disorders are very tough to treat and often those in relationship with people that have PDs have very deep and ingrained patterns.

What do you think is your next big step/goal?

Best,

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi, ubpdhelp, good to hear from you again!

Just wanted to say that I started seeing my T while she was still an intern in grad school. She's close to my age, went back to get her master's after a long hiatus. Currently she has about 18 months of experience in professional counseling since graduating, and I have never had another counselor that I clicked with quite this much (though I did have one for some time that I liked a lot).

My T "gets it", even without much professional experience, so don't let that factor alone discourage you, that's all I'm saying.

[stolencrumbs]

I would echo what redeemed said. The best T I've had was young, fairly inexperienced, and was a LCSW. She was much more helpful for me than all the more experienced Ts. And it's worth thinking about what you want and need out of T. I had never really considered the differences between someone trained in clinical psychology and somoene trained as a LCSW. I much preferred the social work model that looks at strenghts, systems, existing support, etc. and tries to build on that.

[I Am Redeemed]

Agreed, stolencrumbs! My T is an LCSW and I think that the social work model works because they look beyond behaviors and symptoms and try to get the whole picture instead of just the psychological aspect. It's a lot like what we do here, exploring childhood experiences, family patterns, etc.

[GaGrl]

My best T is a PhD level clinical psychologist trained in a Humanist tradition ( "start where they are"). A behaviorist model didn't work for me.

[formflier]

UBPDHelp

What's new in your life? 

How goes the search for a T?

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Hi FF and all,

Unfortunately not a lot new. Our oldest got covid and came home so we could watch over which threw us all into 2 weeks of self quarantine. Luckily the rest of us stayed negative. Unbelievably I had a minor, albeit excruciatingly painful medical issue arise during this time which sent me for some hefty diagnostic testing.  Doc said had only seen the diagnosis a handful of times. No long term complications and unlikely to recur — what are the chances? But ct scan testing revealed something else that requires further testing. Likely nothing and doesn’t appear ominous, but depending what it is, determines treatment. Go me!

All while working a demanding job (aka my lifeline).

He finally left the house for work, says everyday he wants to quit and he needs a vacation (it’s been a week and a half).

Have a second call with lawyer.  Will pay (consult was complimentary), but also plan to interview a couple of others. I really don’t want anything but financial support and my kids (I’ll share, but prefer limited like e/o weekend, alternating holidays). My middle two want nothing to do with him and the youngest has started expressing fear of dad. There’s nothing physical (and I know it can change) but the verbal/emotional is so damaging.

So, yes, I’ve decided the only option is divorce. It’s taken me a long time to get past wondering how he would feel about it or if it was the right decision.  I simply have given so much of my life to this man on the promise that he had my best interest at heart and that he would love and care for me. It’s over and over been said that the good is so good that you fight to get it back when things are bad. The thing is, I believed the good was real and the bad was because I did something wrong, I said something wrong, or that someone else did those things and he was just so put out. I finally (and I mean finally) realize that the good was an illusion. 

It’s okay.  I was naive, dumb, blind, stupid, in denial, afraid, guilty, embarrassed, thought I could fix it.  All of that. I was simply wrong.

Just plain and simple wrong.

 I wonder how he can twist that the kids won’t come out of their rooms because they’re afraid of me (you mean the hugging and kissing, and asking them how their day was and what’s on their mind?). The middle two avoid him at all cost. My little one is starting to be impacted. Mumbling and talking quietly to dad as dad barks at him. My heart is officially broken.  I have failed. I have failed them and myself. They didn’t deserve me to let them down and I think that will be the hardest thing to forgive myself for, if it can even be done.

I wonder how he can twist a story and say horrible things about me in front of the kids and when I defend myself he storms off spewing more vileness as if he is the offended.  And then refuses to speak to me and again leaves his dirty dishes everywhere (such a dumb thing, but it’s an act of defiance or something). I spared the 2 weeks he didn’t pick up 5-6 glasses with mold growing in them.

It just doesn’t matter.

So the decision is made.  I’m not rushing (I wish I could) but I have some preparation left to do and I still haven’t settled on the best way.  I’d like to leave and take the kids but the lawyer thinks I should get him to leave the house. I want to hear more opinions here.

I know he’s going to get crazy vindictive and I am trying to prepare myself. Can I really though? 

Having him out of the house 5-6 hours a day for the last week and a half has been liberating. It’s what I need to clear my head and prepare. And, yet, I can’t wait forever. But, now freer to make my calls or actually go in, and I feel like I can start moving forward.

Thank you all for your advice, ears, kind words, tough words and all in all being here when I’ve needed to vent and find meaning and just being those who understand.

Bless you all. 

[formflier]

It's obvious you have done lots of reflection about this, please keep that up.

I'll attempt to answer some questions.


I don't think the good was an illusion, although I see how people could believe that. 


When his feelings were a certain way, he was "good".  That was true, honest and authentic for that period of time.

Same for when he was bad and also in between.

My goal is to get you to understand they are are "true". 


Projection and invalidation likely explain the other questions.  When you corrected him or stood up to him, he likely felt invalidated and stormed off.   (clarity:  not saying you did anything wrong, sometimes you need to say the truth and let them do whatever they will do)

I think it is wise for you to interview several Ls.

Can you describe your search for a T?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

You sound clearer in the direction you plan to take. What helped clarify things in your thinking process?

[UBPDHelp]

It's obvious you have done lots of reflection about this, please keep that up.

I'll attempt to answer some questions.


I don't think the good was an illusion, although I see how people could believe that.  


When his feelings were a certain way, he was "good".  That was true, honest and authentic for that period of time.

Same for when he was bad and also in between.

My goal is to get you to understand they are are "true".  

Projection and invalidation likely explain the other questions.  When you corrected him or stood up to him, he likely felt invalidated and stormed off.   (clarity:  not saying you did anything wrong, sometimes you need to say the truth and let them do whatever they will do)

I think it is wise for you to interview several Ls.

Can you describe your search for a T?

Best,

FF

Perhaps. Maybe. Maybe not. The point is, who can tell?  I mean truly.

I know my feelings don’t vacillate so quickly, over so little, so often. It makes me believe that the expeditious way he can turn to this place of annihilation demonstrates, at the very least, his negative feelings override the positive.

I don’t really care if he sometimes feels happy and love/like/fondness/pleasantness.  I do not believe that if you actually had the ability to care for another human that the words he has uttered would have ever left his mouth. Ever. I mean ever. Sure, he has a mental illness and can’t help himself. Okay. But I can and I simply choose not to be made to feel like this any more.

His feelings get hurt (invalidated...because he insulted me in front of the kids and I didn’t take it) and then he refuses to eat with us for 3 days.  Goes out of his way with the kids but does not speak to me.

I enjoy the peace.  It’s no way to go through life. No way.

And I am terrified of the actual divorce process because I believe he will be an absolute nightmare. I would walk away with my kids, some clothes and mediocre financial support (he makes 5x what I do and then some, when he works, which he has started doing), just to not deal with it.

But I plan to ask for everything just to get something.

I digress.

T has not progressed as any “free” time I’ve had with work has been taken up with medical stuff, which unfortunately is requiring additional testing and specialists still.

And attorney consults are next and then T. I’ll probably start online and go from there.

Any ideas how I can talk to a L and a T without breaking down?  I hardly cry, except when telling this story. It brings me to tears and to my knees.

  FF.

[UBPDHelp]

You sound clearer in the direction you plan to take. What helped clarify things in your thinking process?

Hi Cat,

So many things but perhaps simply time and space.

Realizing that I just didn’t choose to be miserable. I wake up every damn day thankful and grateful and happy to be alive and love my kids and have work to do and friends to talk to.

And every damn day he tells me my job sucks, my family sucks, the kids are irresponsible or messy, that I don’t have any real friends and that just basically everything is wrong.

When he “had to go” back to work, he decided we could all just get Covid b/c if he was risking his life, then we all were. When my son was “annoying” him and he purposefully sneezed in his face (who the heck does that?).

I just finally   -ing realized I could choose to not try to make things better for him. That it was perpetual misery and that I didn’t have to do it. It couldn’t be done.

I just want to be allowed to be happy. To be at peace.

In some ways it took Covid. Who could look at what we’ve been through and not be thankful to be safe and recognize life is too fragile to not let love trump all?  Not a blind eye, but a bit of grace.

It’s okay for me to choose it even if he doesn’t want to. No one can say I didn’t try. Not him.  Not me.

Appreciate your tow-the-line support and making me look inside myself, too.

[babyducks]

Hi UBPDHelp,

Nice to hear from you again.     I am sorry to hear about the medical stuff you have going on.   I hope that begins to resolve for you.    a couple of thoughts regarding the medical if you don't mind.    You've lived with a high level of stress and anxiety for a long time now.   Stress and anxiety are going to go somewhere...   and physical manifestations are to be expected.   Please take good care of yourself.     seriously work on your self care plan.     the stress in your life isn't going away any time soon... finding a counter balance is important.

Have a second call with lawyer.  Will pay (consult was complimentary), but also plan to interview a couple of others.

How did the lawyer strike you?    What was your sense of how comfortable you would be working with this lawyer?   What are you looking for in a lawyer?

So the decision is made.  I’m not rushing (I wish I could) but I have some preparation left to do and I still haven’t settled on the best way.  I’d like to leave and take the kids but the lawyer thinks I should get him to leave the house. I want to hear more opinions here.

I know he’s going to get crazy vindictive and I am trying to prepare myself. Can I really though?  

This looks like a good place to talk through some stuff with us.   How to leave successfully and safely.    I think I agree with the lawyer... it would be better for him to leave the house from a financial perspective still I do wonder about how reasonable he is going to be about this.    my expectations are not high that he will be cooperative and not dangerous.     a couple of simple questions.. if he leaves the house will he stay away?   or will he return to create drama and release his anger?    what is the situations regarding the locks?   can you change them while the divorce is in progress?     how can you protect a safe space for you and the children?

I don’t really care if he sometimes feels happy and love/like/fondness/pleasantness.  I do not believe that if you actually had the ability to care for another human that the words he has uttered would have ever left his mouth. Ever. I mean ever. Sure, he has a mental illness and can’t help himself. Okay. But I can and I simply choose not to be made to feel like this any more.

this is a complicated thought, and maybe hard to grasp but I find it important so I hope you will entertain me for a while.

what my experience was living with a person with mental illness ... for me what turned out to be true was that living with a untreated mental illness had a vast impact on my emotional and mental health.    one of the hardest things to see for the longest time was how emotionally immature I became,  how I regressed to a more child like (okay - late teenager) state of handling and coping with my own emotions.   either I stuffed them.    I discounted them.     I blamed myself for them.    or I blamed life for them.    I think when I first came to this website I was probably about 17 years old emotionally.   and that was a painful way to live.    therapy helped me "get in touch" with my emotions (hackneyed phrase) and view emotions as a rich broad tapestry of gorgeous variety and no judgement.     

this is why I would encourage you to consider therapy.   I think living with mental illness damages the ability to recognize and be comfortable with emotions.   I think therapy helps make friends with emotions again.

And attorney consults are next and then T. I’ll probably start online and go from there.

Any ideas how I can talk to a L and a T without breaking down?  I hardly cry, except when telling this story. It brings me to tears and to my knees.

its okay to break down and cry, but if you find that counter productive right now you can control how much you discuss and how far you are willing to go in recounting your story.    break it down into manageable size pieces.    its also okay to say ... I find it difficult to discuss XYZ right now so can we come back to that a little later?   you are in charge of how fast or how slow this progresses.  you set the pace and it should be a pace and tempo that you are comfortable with.     driving yourself into an emotional collapse - no not good, don't do that.    set a slow easy pace where you tackle a reasonable amount of emotionally tough topics - good yes...   remember to breath.    work to slow your racing thoughts.    remember to take breaks, where you just sit and feel.

I hope your child is recovering.   and I hope you keep in touch with people who can support you.

'ducks

[formflier]

 
this is why I would encourage you to consider therapy.   I think living with mental illness damages the ability to recognize and be comfortable with emotions.   I think therapy helps make friends with emotions again.

Ditto to this. 

I'm certainly feeling similar time pressures.  So much to do and so little time.  Many days I wonder if there is more to do at the end of the day, than I started out with.  Very frustrating.  Add on top of that the "reason" my production is low are chronic medical issues...well it makes keeping a positive outlook hard.

With that said, I would ask to you be reflective and curious about whether or not to spend any free time on a L search or a T search.  (it would appear there may only be time for one at the moment).

When you consider this question, what kind of answers do you get?

Best,

FF