Boundaries - Advice

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Please read and advise if I should word this email this way or even send it.  My SO does most of the talking when we talk and it is hard for me to express myself to her.  If I send an email and she reads it I will heard.  A bit of a tornado regarding this trip, I sat and listened so far…
Email I would like to send to SO:
I am planning to go camping next week, as planned, for an extended trip south for about 21 days.  You are welcome to join and if you do join please let me know some of your ideas and where you want to go.
Some dos and don’ts for the trip:
Going to the seashore for a couple of days is a definite
Family and friends will be visited along the way
No more than 4 – 5 hours driving the trailer – I will stop and camp for a couple of days and then move to the next campground
I will not surprise anybody and just show up at their doorstep, I will call ahead and let them know I am coming
I will not tell anybody they are not welcome to visit our campsite
I plan on having fun visiting others and sightseeing

[start_again]

Please read and advise if I should word this email this way or even send it.  My SO does most of the talking when we talk and it is hard for me to express myself to her.  If I send an email and she reads it I will heard.  A bit of a tornado regarding this trip, I sat and listened so far…
Email I would like to send to SO:
I am planning to go camping next week, as planned, for an extended trip south for about 21 days.  You are welcome to join and if you do join please let me know some of your ideas and where you want to go.
Some dos and don’ts for the trip:
Going to the seashore for a couple of days is a definite
Family and friends will be visited along the way
No more than 4 – 5 hours driving the trailer – I will stop and camp for a couple of days and then move to the next campground
I will not surprise anybody and just show up at their doorstep, I will call ahead and let them know I am coming
I will not tell anybody they are not welcome to visit our campsite
I plan on having fun visiting others and sightseeing

[stolencrumbs]

Please read and advise if I should word this email this way or even send it.  My SO does most of the talking when we talk and it is hard for me to express myself to her.  If I send an email and she reads it I will heard.  A bit of a tornado regarding this trip, I sat and listened so far…
Email I would like to send to SO:
I am planning to go camping next week, as planned, for an extended trip south for about 21 days.  You are welcome to join and if you do join please let me know some of your ideas and where you want to go.
Some dos and don’ts for the trip:
Going to the seashore for a couple of days is a definite
Family and friends will be visited along the way
No more than 4 – 5 hours driving the trailer – I will stop and camp for a couple of days and then move to the next campground
I will not surprise anybody and just show up at their doorstep, I will call ahead and let them know I am coming
I will not tell anybody they are not welcome to visit our campsite
I plan on having fun visiting others and sightseeing

Hey start_again. I'm not familiar with the details surrounding this trip, so some of this may not apply. But there are a couple of things I see in this email that might be worth thinking about.

First is whether you actually want your SO to go on this trip with you. I know in my own relationship I fell into this a number of times. What I actually wanted was to do something without my wife. But I wouldn't straight up tell her that. Instead, I'd ask her to join me, but I would secretly hope that she would say 'no.' And probably consciously or subconsciously, I did things that made it harder for her to say 'yes.' It was my own form of manipulation, and ultimately was not a good thing. It just allowed me to give myself a hollow "victory" because, hey, I asked you to come along.

I ask this because the tone of this is not the tone of genuinely wanting her to join you on the camping trip. It sounds more like "I'm going camping, and this is what I'm going to do, and you can come if you want to." PwBPD are very good at picking up on tone. I'd guess that your SO will pick up on the same thing. So if what you want is a nice trip by yourself without your SO, then think about telling her that, and then doing it regardless of her reaction.

If, on the other hand, you genuinely want her to come along, then I'd think about revising the email. In general, I'd think the tone should be more of "Hey, I'm really excited about this camping trip, and it's getting close, so if we're doing this together I'd love to sit down and plan out the trip with you. I'd like to have it all planned out by (pick a date.) Here are some of my ideas. I'd love to hear yours and talk about it all with you." I'm not saying go with those exact words, just that if you want her to say "yes" to the trip, something more inviting that suggests a collaborative trip might be the better bet. 

[start_again]

Yes absolutely I get the tone issue good point and that they can see right thru it. 
We did sit down and did plan the trip.  Next day wife blew up at me and chased me out the door screaming and calling me the usual bunch of horrible things.   She apparently was upset with making plans and not winging it…
Not a problem for me to say I will go on this trip myself and have considered that.  I do want her to come along because in the past on trips we have had fun.
Good advice with the positive approach. 

[formflier]

Yes absolutely I get the tone issue good point and that they can see right thru it. 
We did sit down and did plan the trip.  

Ahh...well couple things.

First SC nailed the tone issue, that being said..you don't need to say anything further to your wife.

The trip is planned..right?

Has she informed you that she is not going? 

I'm assuming yes trip is planned and no she didn't say she wouldn't go...however since she went nuclear and flew around on a witches broom for a while that she doesn't want to go on a trip with you.

So...how am I doing so far? 

Listen...don't "overfunction".   If she wants to cancel the trip...she can take action.

Now..if you want to make sure you go on the trip alone..well...then I think we need to talk about how to approach her.

In person probably better than email...almost always.

Best,

FF

[start_again]

I did talk with her in person this morning and asked her again if she would like to go on the trip.  The flying around on the room on a broom came out again and flew right to her telling me she is afraid that I will leave her stranded on the trip.  Not sure where that came from.
So I am going be myself and am up for a communication approach…
Can you guess who has the history of leaving someone stranded?

[formflier]

So...did she bring it up or did you ask her if she wanted to go?

Had she previously told you that she was not going?

What do you think you will do now?

Best,

FF

[start_again]

I brought it up and she previously said she wasn't going...

I am going, leavening Tuesday...

[I Am Redeemed]

Has she ever left you stranded somewhere?

Do you think she might be worried that you would do it for revenge on her? or in retaliation for something else? Or to abandon her?

My ex used to frequently come up with bizarre left-field things that he thought I was planning as revenge on him for something he had previously done to me. In reality, he was the vindictive person. But I guess since he thinks in terms of retaliation and revenge, he thinks that everyone else does, too, and also he is a pretty paranoid person (fits criteria for Paranoid Personality Disorder, actually).

I think he was also constantly certain that I would "abandon" him at literally any moment.

[start_again]

Has she ever left you stranded somewhere?
Yes she has – different forms of it. Wouldn’t take me to the hospital at the last minute for Heart surgery, at the airport, leaves the campground with the tow vehicle and me and goes home.  List goes on and on…  She eventually comes back or I call a friend to help me.

Do you think she might be worried that you would do it for revenge on her? or in retaliation for something else? Or to abandon her?  I can't answer for her fears.  Early on when we were dating I believe she did mention feelings of abandonment...

My ex used to frequently come up with bizarre left-field things that he thought I was planning as revenge on him for something he had previously done to me. In reality, he was the vindictive person. But I guess since he thinks in terms of retaliation and revenge, he thinks that everyone else does, too, and also he is a pretty paranoid person (fits criteria for Paranoid Personality Disorder, actually).

I think he was also constantly certain that I would "abandon" him at literally any moment.

[formflier]

I brought it up and she previously said she wasn't going...

 

Had she done or said something to indicate she had changed her mind?

Best,

FF

[start_again]

Had she done or said something to indicate she had changed her mind?

Best,

FF

No she didn't do or say anything to indicate that she changed her mind. Our pattern is after the bomb settles I would go back and ask her if she has changed her mind.  Sort of the tail wagging the dog.  She wants me to acknowledge that I am a piece of $#& and if I do she will most likely go on the trip.  Today I am not going to fall into that behavior...

[formflier]

No she didn't do or say anything to indicate that she changed her mind. Our pattern is after the bomb settles I would go back and ask her if she has changed her mind.  Sort of the tail wagging the dog.  She wants me to acknowledge that I am a piece of $#& and if I do she will most likely go on the trip.  Today I am not going to fall into that behavior...

It's good you see your pattern.

Much better to take her at her word.  She tells you once that she is going...so...you go.  She misses out.

Many of us nons "overfunction" for our significant others.  At first many of us didn't see it or still don't.

Keep on the lookout for it.

She is an adult...the rational and normal consequence of telling someone  you aren't going on the trip is...wait for it...ohhh the suspense is killing me...hang on I need a glass of water and I'm going to sit down...drum roollllllllllllllllllll..

that the person that says they aren't going on a trip doesn't go on a trip..

shocking... I know.. 

Now...just know that FF is standing an applauding that you are going on the trip!  Don't look back.  have fun!

Best,

FF

[start_again]

I applaud you FF.  I am on the trip without her helping my father in NC who is 90 years old  with some health and financial matters.  Feels real good to help him...

Best of all I am able to spend some quality time alone with him...

[Cat Familiar]

So nice to support your father. And I’d bet it’s a much nicer trip to do without her.

[start_again]

TY CF for the kind words...
There is so much going on with my father and I need help and someone to talk with.  The unfortunate reality the best person to talk with would be my SO WBPDT.  Can’t do that because eventually it would be used against me. 
The short of it is I am my father’s power of attorney; my sister is the health care proxy and her SO is paid to do some basic functions for my dad and does a wonderful job.  The issue is that my sister is in early sobriety, five weeks, and things have gone nuclear in the past with my sister and her SO.  So right now, in early sobriety most people are crazier than a bed bug and if my sister relapses my father might be without the basic care he needs.  Got my hands full… BTW I live 750 miles away from this all…

[formflier]

Are you secondary on the health care documents?

Is your sister secondary on the power of attorney?

I'm an only child.  So...on the one hand there is no sibling drama.  On the other hand, my support network is limited.

Hang in there.

Best,

FF

[start_again]

The reality of the POA document is that I have almost all power.  The way they were created is that my sister reports into me for the health care while my dad is living - she makes the call to pull the plug, if you will, I do not...

[start_again]

The lawyer is 2nd...

[start_again]

So nice to support your father. And I’d bet it’s a much nicer trip to do without her.

Sure was a better trip, much accomplished helping my dad...

Had one good day back then the broomstick came out and my SO started flying around the room with the craziness.  Just going about my business and not engaging with her.

[formflier]

Had one good day back then the broomstick came out and my SO started flying around the room with the craziness.  Just going about my business and not engaging with her.

Can you try to describe a he said she said of 10 minutes or so of the broomstick flying?

If I was a fly on the wall...what would I experience?

Best,

FF

[start_again]

Can you try to describe a he said she said of 10 minutes or so of the broomstick flying?

If I was a fly on the wall...what would I experience?

Best,

FF

Not so much that a fly on the wall would be interested in.  The key for me is to not engage when the conversations is all emotional.   What I do is excuse myself from the situation and offer up another time to talk when emotions are not driving the conversations.  If she follows me so be it it will eventually end...
He said she said – if this goes longer than five minutes I am in deep trouble, defuse, defuse and defuse again… Discussing plans for the day turned into an accusation that I think of my SO as a hired hand.  Not sure where that came from since she offered to help with some of the chores around the house.  Then the accusations morphed into that I deliberately started an argument so that I could go on the trip by myself.  Neither is true and I didn’t respond to either – no reason to since a response would just add fuel.  I am learning pull back, take care of myself, and accept the situation for what it truly is.  This too will pass and there is another day to discuss and I let her know that.

[start_again]

Now...just know that FF is standing an applauding that you are going on the trip!  Don't look back.  have fun!

Best,

FF

Hello FF got back from the trip and wanted to let you know that my friends have noticed a difference in me.  I can see it in myself.  Thank you for the encouragement to go and do some good stuff for me, family and friends without feeling feer of being myself.