I'm looking in the mirror, here comes the projection (Or, I'm an abuser)

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm still in the opening rounds of divorce.  We have a lot to do still.
I thought I had life figured out over the past five years.  I have spent a long time reading and learning, getting better. A long time with BPDFamily too.

I have noticed books she leaves out these days.  Healing From Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas (I read it years ago, found it poignant but not a perfect fit), and The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist by Debbie Mirza at two of the toppers for her nightstand.  Out of curiosity, I flipped through the Mirza book. I hadn't read it. I found the first half was chock-full of underlines, comments in the margins, notes about me, and annotations by my wife. 

No one wants to be suspected of being an narc, or passive aggressive, or anything bad.  So, I'm doing a self-inventory, looking in the mirror.  Seeing my STBX's comments, I think I can see where she's coming from a little.  Sometimes, one person being a person comes across to the other as being an abuser.  And, I'm sure I've done poorly at a lot of things.  But, I can't quite agree with STBX's diagnosis.  I also see from the notes how she takes my behavior, and some of it is really a stretch, or clearly projection. 

A cautious voice inside myself says I better start being nicer, be the anti-narcissist. Another voice says to get ready for some well-educated and informed smear campaigns.

On one hand, I think any awareness of abusive behaviors can make us all better people by being aware and concerned. So, maybe STBX and I will both start walking a higher road. 

On the other hand, I must admit to feeling bad, or defensive.  I believe it's an unfair judgement to call me a passive aggressive narcissist.  It's like now I want to prove her wrong. 

I'm expecting to see results of her study. Maybe it already is having an effect. I'm thinking of her posturing lately, and questioning if it is a result of her convincing herself I'm the abuser.

I am also expecting to get some projection, blame, gaslighting, and manipulation.  In my fantasy, I will see the day she (hopefully) realizes she was mistaken, and I'm not an abuser.  And, maybe see something in herself that can change for the better. 

Dear Lord, I hope I'm not an abuser.

At any rate, here I am looking at the mirror.  Scared and circumspect.

What should I expect? 
What to do?

[Turkish]

Are you an abuser? To a pwBPD you may feel like it.

When my ex lived with us for about 4 months until she could move out comfortably, she had a couch journal, where she slept, and a bathroom journal. She kept her lady things in the master bedroom bathroom where I slept alone. I read them both. 

When she moved out, she left them both, the bathroom journal very purposefully left on empty shelves. She wrote things like,  "turkish has been nicer to me lately. I think that the therapy is helping him." No indication of why I might not be nice to her as I was left night after night to look after our pups (then 1 and 3), while she had fun with her boy-toy.

Personally? I wouldn't engage it. If you feel that you might have "abused" her, examine yourself apart from her passive-aggressive communication.

I'll own, and I admitted later, that I did neglect and ignore her and it hurt her.  I wasn't and am not an abuser though. 

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you, Turkish.

After sleeping on it, I am comfortable enough to let it go, with the enlightenment of understanding STBX better.

Of course, I've done things I wouldn't be proud of. If I was who I am now 20 years ago, reports of my behavior would be much different. Thinking of her examples written in the margins, it seems like she's taking real-life examples, but them hammering them into shape in order to fit her perception.  In addition, it was clear to see that her feelings were are her facts.  Several comments show jumping to conclusions and mind-reading on her part.  I've learned by now not to argue with others about what my motives, feelings, and emotions are.

Her diagnosis of me just doesn't pass the truth-check. It exemplifies that to a person like STBX, convinced they are a victim, they will manipulate and use whatever they can to verify their feelings and experiences. 

There were a few notes that indicated that her therapist in the past suggested that I was a narc. It looks like the advice sunk in, and she's on a quest to prove it.  And, why not? 

I can understand that anyone listening to STBX talk about me, and STBX's feelings and experiences, would also conclude that I'm the problem, and the abuser.  Sure.  Add to that the coaching she seems to be getting from her attorney.  I'll be blamed for sure.

Internally, I want to step forward and prove that I'm not a narcissist, that I'm normal (but not perfect). As an intellectual endeavor, I would love to compare the notes I made in the margins of my books, with her notes in her books.  It wouldn't prove anything, but, it would be a fascinating, although pointless, study.

It was good for me to have this experience.  It will remind me that I should take a good look in the mirror, and often.  I can still do more to be a better person.  It will also serve to remind me how different our realities are.

I'll walk more cautiously now.  I just now remembered that I have seen her secretly video recording our interactions in the past.  I didn't call her out on this, I acted appropriately as soon as I perceived it. Maybe this all fits together. 

[MeandThee29]

What they feel is their reality. So maybe you just listened to them for an hour, but if you focus goes to your kids who need you for something, you are a neglectful spouse. Despite all evidence to the contrary, their shame and feelings make them a victim when actually they were a victimizer.

I prefer not to call myself a victim, I am a survivor. I realize that it's hard to have that attitude when you are in the divorce process.

Early in separation, I was very concerned about being disordered myself, and I went to  our long-term therapist with that concern. Of course she let out a full belly laugh and said no. She outlined all of the signs that I am not and the lack of those patterns.

Apparently, my ex presented himself as a victim to his attorney, but his attorney let go of that partway through and approached it more reasonably from then on. He asked my attorney what I was like, and mine said that I was a model client and very easy to work with. Not at all how it had been presented.

It's tough to evaluate yourself apart from your spouse's opinions, but we have to do that.

[worriedStepmom]

Everyone who is getting divorced has room to improve - either to improve our picker or to eliminate bad habits or to find new healthy habits.  It's very normal for you to be attempting to improve yourself now, whether or not it's partially inspired by your STBX.

That's one of the things that shows that you're a healthier person - the ability to look at yourself and attempt to change.

Your wife isn't going to be able to do that, and, over time, she is going to try harder and harder to put you into the "abuser" category. If you are the problem, then she isn't.  My H and his uBPDex have been divorced for 11 years.  3 years ago, at just about the time that H started to question some of her parenting decisions, she decided that my H had physically and emotionally abused her during their marriage.  She goes to therapists and insists she's a battered (ex)wife and that her issues stem from that trauma.  She then tries to tell H that the therapists think he's dangerous and blah blah blah. It's ridiculous.

Keep working on yourself, and remind yourself as often as you need to that her opinions aren't necessarily reality.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you.
This event has spawned a new round of self-reflection.  Yeah, I did bad things.  I was controlling (maybe acted out of fear or frustration, too). I am very sorry for things I said and did.  I must have hurt STBX and others. I am sorry.  Meanwhile, I also see from inside me how I was angry and bad because of the pain I was in.  Sort of a cycle.  I can also reflect and see how my FOO, and early life, set me up to be what I was, who I was.  I think now I can see myself as having gotten better.  I am still who I am, light and dark inside.  

I will certainly keep an eye on myself.  Awareness can help cure.

And to my defense, I see things she's noting, and I can understand how it might appear to fulfill her diagnosis of me being a narc, but, her examples as she interprets them, and what I had inside are very different.  For example, a few years ago I had what I think must have been a cardiac event - flushed skin, thready pulse, visions, chills, collapse, pain, everything - like for real I thought I was going to lose consciousness, and either wake up in the hospital or not at all.
It was momentary, thankfully.  I saw in the margins of STBX's book, her notes of that event next to how abusers fake illnesses to thwart the partner's plans or control the family.  Constantly creating chaos to get the center of attention. This is about me?  Never missed a day of work or failed to deliver on family plans for illness more than once or twice in ten years or so.  

Finding that made me realize that I'm not going to get a fair trial from the STBX ;)  If I'm getting diagnosed as being a passive aggressive narcissist, it's going to have to be from a different source.  

I'll just keep working on self-improvement, on my own path. I've got yet more to learn and do.

[formflier]

Also there is a difference between doing things that might be considered "abusive" and being an "abuser".  Where is that line?  Is calling someone a name and saying they are horrid "abusive"?  Well..I'd say yes.  Does that make the person saying it an "abuser"..well I'd say "it depends".

This is totally a FF definition here...

We've all had our bad days, yet we try to make up for it...have insight..make things right.

The biggest thing that jumps out at me is that you were looking at yourself and seeing a point of view.

Here is the thing, is there a "pattern"?  Where is the "trend"?

Best,

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

Taking an academic sidebar to this...
I have tendencies to control, as I look at it now.  But, for a head of household, keeping things on budget, and on time are sort of innate qualities.  For a spouse, are they abuse?
Is it me?  Can I take out what the military put in?

I remind myself that most of my personality jives with that of Mr. Rogers, Ghandi, and Brene Brown.  So, I shouldn't beat myself up too much.

I also look and see that to someone who projects and blames, it would be impossible to not eventually be cast as a narcissist and/or passive aggressive.

Crazy world with crazy people.

[formflier]

 

But that's not the real question.

Do you control things that are "outside" your boundaries or only "inside"?

So...money you bring into the family and then you "control" how it is spent.  Solid work!

Money someone else brings into the family.  Shakey ground.

Money someone else brings in but promised to spend in a certain manner as part of marital compromise and then you try to "control" that the deal goes forward as promised...solid work.

Anyway...switching gears, hijacking..whatever.  I had forgotten or missed that you are military.  Branch?  What did you do? 

As a Naval Aviator used to "controlling" my plane and crew, commander of two shore installations and a county manager in retirement...I can assure you I have zero controlling tendencies.  Oh yeah..look up ESTJ.

Yep...no control here..move along.

 

Best

FF

[MeandThee29]

Finding that made me realize that I'm not going to get a fair trial from the STBX ;)  If I'm getting diagnosed as being a passive aggressive narcissist, it's going to have to be from a different source.  

I'll just keep working on self-improvement, on my own path. I've got yet more to learn and do.

There you go. I think that once you are in the divorce process, the less time you spend analyzing the other person's past or present behavior, and the more you focus just on your behavior, the better. Start looking at yourself apart from you STBX and asking what needs to be fixed.

A therapist friend of mine often notes that healing will unfold as we go, so make progress and don't rush. Sure you are going to find things that you did that contributed to the downfall of the marriage. But when you find those things, deal with them. It's not worth digging for them if you really aren't ready for it. I've been told that full divorce recovery from a marriage of over a decade takes at least three years. It does get better though, but not all at once.

[Turkish]

When we filed for CS, my ex said, "I thought you made about [$20k less] a year?" I had an open spreadsheet for a budget. I only put my net, but I also put a $amount I put into my 401(k) and employee stock purchase plan. I never tried to hide anything.  Yet she still pressured me to do the $30k kitchen remodel, the $40k SUV (which I did buy for her, then had to get rid of), and the $3-5k vacations (which she did on her own after, calling me "cheap" yet running up $25k in CC debt for which she actually asked to borrow from me).

She never accused me of abuse though would often call me "cheap" even in front of the kids.  I "provided" so we wouldn't end up on the street. I didn't think of it as controlling though from her point of view maybe she did.

[worriedStepmom]

I have control issues, which are my brain's attempt to soothe my anxiety.  My ex likewise did, and we had lots of power struggles.

These control issues are something I have worked on since my divorce.

My control issues weren't abusive - not stopping my ex from doing something or withholding money or anything like that.  More along the lines of "the dishwasher must be loaded THIS way" and the chores are done in THIS order and THIS is your responsibility so I'm never going to do it.  I'm sure that was annoying to him.

The blessing of divorce is that we have a very large "failure" with lots of room for introspection so we can improve ourselves.  I used my ex's comments and complaints over the years to figure out what - or whether - I needed to change (some of his complaints were about core things that I'm not willing to change).

On the other hand, my H's uBPDex calls him controlling for saying "SD had the sniffles again.  Do you think we should get her allergy tested?"  So her perception is whack and we don't give it any weight at all. 

[formflier]

Well...I'm not sure "control issues" are bad...at least it's in the "it depends" area.

Perhaps he was thankful he didn't have to worry about how to load a dishwasher and the dishes were clean.

Best,

FF

[whirlpoollife]

I would say now is not the time to self analyze yourself . You are in the middle of divorce proceedings.  Which puts you in survival / victim mode.
When divorce is behind you , you will come out of that shell to be a thriver. Then you will have time to self reflect and better yourself.
My exh projected his behaviors on to me . Early in in our marriage he said himself that anything comes his way he just bounces it right back off. Little did I know of PD and projection.
Control ...is the cliche of the frog in a pot of water and turning up the heat to boiling.  Ex controlled my looks, my thoughts , my behavior , where I went , who I talked to , stalked me to always fear his presence.  All in a sick morbid manipulative way. My identity was controlled.
The other control talked about here I feel we humans have . A good book for that  if you need less of it for yourself is, “ Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff“
Stay focused and strong SamG

[once removed]

"my ex is a bipolar narcissistic sociopath and i am an empath" - everyone in 2020 going through a breakup or divorce.

seriously, this is the going trend for coping with a breakup today. its all over the internet, its all over my own facebook feed.

i dont normally trash therapists, but lets face it, there isnt a shortage of them buying into this, and diagnosing a persons ex.

its been many years since my ex and i broke up, and we were never married, but even now, if i were privy to her expressing similar in her writings, id probably be frustrated, and id probably ask myself the same questions.

i would simply remind you that the need to prove right or wrong dies when the relationship does. the only burden upon you is to be mature and navigate conflict with skill.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Thank you all. 
OnceRemoved - no wonder, I knew I was an empath!  ;)
But, seriously, thank you.  I made a note to myself quoting you "the need to prove right or wrong dies with the relationship."  My written goal for this divorce is to establish a relationship in which we both can forgive and let go. I'm including "and then go" to that.

@FF - I have run household finances based on my income, and we've managed.  I do watch things, and behold, we are debt free except for the house, and live simple, but not poor. My wife earns money on her own, and I can't think of an example in which she's used it to pay household bills or expenses.  There is a steady flow of Amazon deliveries addressed to her. She tracks and keeps all her own money. I usually only find out what she makes when we file taxes - so, I don't think that would qualify as me being over-controlling.
I'm a Marine, and although less mean, I'm still green ;) I'm in law enforcement now, and that requires a skill set of following plans and controlling your environment. That's non-negotiable right now

Since you reminded me, I just now took a quick online MBTI.  It gave me ENFJ.  Which sounds like a happy-manager person.  Although, taking the test, I see a lot of questions I like both options for.  I've suspected I could take a lot of personality tests that would be influenced by my current mood and mindset however. 

I do know that I'm still carrying my flaws, and I'll improve them as I can. And, mid-divorce isn't the right time. I'll just try to stay real.