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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Haven’t seen or spoken with S5 in nearly a month Part 2  (Read 1177 times)
Crispy Waffle

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced!
Posts: 37



« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2020, 08:37:51 PM »

Thank you CW. What a ride. Who would’ve thought that this would be how it is. I know you didn’t. You wanted your family in tact. Do you ever wonder if you could’ve done better? Something different? I do, but the conclusion ends up the same every time. I’m a bit emotional this evening. Angry and sad. I’m expressing those emotions by sitting here on my couch. Lol

How are things with you?

Haha. Yeah, what a ride indeed! My boss (who has some messy marital stuff himself) refers to it as the roller coaster, and tells his kids they don't have to go on this ride that mom and dad are on. Never in a million years would I have expected this. My first post here was "blindsided by BPD". There were always some indicators, but I never could have expected the bizarro world in which I find myself. A friend of ours that had visited with my wife even described it that way. Her total lack of emotion and mourning the end of the marriage was just completely surreal according to her. It helped me realize I wasn't crazy and overly-emotional.

And yes, I KNOW I could have done better. I have spent a bunch of time in therapy. In fact in true BPD fashion she would frequently praise the growth I had made. And then turn around and denigrate me. It was never enough. In hind-sight I have come to realize that despite my shortcomings and contributions to this mess, I could have never done enough. You will always be a villain at some point with the BPD in your life. That has actually been the realization that allowed me to stop feeling so broken as a result of her words and deeds. I have to grow, improve and heal for myself and the others in my life (current and future). Not for her.

And as you noted, we could take a different path but the destination would still be the same. All roads lead to the same place. I chatted with a friend that just finalized a divorce from her husband. She had come to a similar conclusion and we talked about that. If you could go back in time and change things...so what, there would be other mistakes along the way, many of which that would lead to the same woes. It gives real meaning to the "growth through trauma". Oh, that life were not so messy. After 3 weeks of the USPS screwing up delivery of "Don't Alienate the Kids" I received it Thursday evening and started reading it today. It's helping to reinforce the importance of staying in control of myself and my emotions through this. My inner caveman wants to do the opposite.

But you know what... I am going to be just fine. You said so. So it must be true. And so too, it is with you.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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JNChell
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2020, 04:08:02 PM »

It’s quite an experience. My parents never split. They were both abusive, which I’ve been trying to figure out. I try to talk to my sister who is the Golden child. She realizes the dynamic. She is also a psychologist. We have to be careful during our talks to keep things in line ethically. I’m on board with that. We share a lot of similarities, at the same time we don’t. Scapegoat and Golden child. These are both forms of abuse. I experienced a lot violence. Physical, emotional and psychological. Sis was groomed to be the best. There’s no balance there. Somehow, we both came out of our situation fairly in tact.
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
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« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2020, 02:40:11 AM »

It’s quite an experience. My parents never split. They were both abusive, which I’ve been trying to figure out. I try to talk to my sister who is the Golden child. She realizes the dynamic. She is also a psychologist. We have to be careful during our talks to keep things in line ethically. I’m on board with that. We share a lot of similarities, at the same time we don’t. Scapegoat and Golden child. These are both forms of abuse. I experienced a lot violence. Physical, emotional and psychological. Sis was groomed to be the best. There’s no balance there. Somehow, we both came out of our situation fairly in tact.

Sorry to hear this. My parents never split either. They were not quite abusive, more like neglecting my emotional needs. They were/are narcissists. My sister was also a golden child but managed to come out of it ok.

Probably similar background as a lot of people on here. Quite the reason why I chose my now ex, and still let her get away with a lot of things while I try to be the "fixer".

I'm also struggling with seeing my children enough. We've stayed out of the courts and while it started out at 50-50 (at least with daughter) my ex, being a highly functional expert manipulator soon made it so they both stay with her full-time. They are older teenagers now, can't wait for them to move to something of their own. It all feels very unfair.
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JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
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« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2020, 11:05:22 PM »

It’s just a messed up situation. Every bit of literature that I read says that a parent that does these things is most likely Cluster B. The Cluster B will drag your balls through a mile of broken glass.

You can’t fix her. Seriously. Do you have any contact with your kids?
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
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empathic
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Relationship status: Separated since 2016-06
Posts: 256



« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2020, 03:43:59 AM »

It’s just a messed up situation. Every bit of literature that I read says that a parent that does these things is most likely Cluster B. The Cluster B will drag your balls through a mile of broken glass.

You can’t fix her. Seriously. Do you have any contact with your kids?

You are absolutely right. But I feel that I have to put up a facade to not cause her stress, which would backfire on me. She's capable of a lot, which she showed at the time of separation. So I'm trying not to stir things up. It's gotten better though. She has a new guy (since less than a year after we split) which seems to have a calming effect.

Yes, I see them now and then. Try to involve myself as much as I can, driving them places etc. Problem is my ex doesn't work, she lives off an inheritance so she has all the time in the world to put into this. And she wants everything - she'd never take a step back and let me drive them somewhere if she can, for example.

Some periods I can see them quite often (especially my son). Other times it can go 2-3 weeks without seeing them at all. Texting and voice is a poor substitute I've learnt. I miss the day-to-day stuff.

My daughter talked about maybe wanting to get back to 50-50 yesterday when we were out shopping though, so that is a glimpse of hope.
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Panda39
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2020, 11:08:45 AM »

Excerpt
Vent, share, emote, do whatever is necessary here so that you don't do so in a way that undermines yourself with your BPDex or the courts.
  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Totally, agree with Crispy Waffle here! 

I will also want to validate that you absolutely have things to be angry about, but it's important that you put seeing your son before all else.

My partner had one of the bad, high conflict, parental alienation 2 year divorces that you hear about around here. 

He had lots of things to be angry about and for the most part kept it in check around his kids, but one day he was on the phone with the ex and she hung up on him and he got frustrated and threw the phone into the couch.  That got twisted by his ex with the help of their alienated daughters into, the phone was thrown against the wall and shattered, to it being thrown at the girls, to he wouldn't let them use the phone to call their mother, to him not letting them leave his apartment, to physical abuse that he was required to show up to court for.  He did not see his kids again until after court.

He showed up at court with his intact phone and told his story.

His uBPDxw didn't bother to come to court, Ms. so concerned about the horrible abuse done to her kids told the court she was sick.  In reality she was out having a Mani/Pedi with one of their daughters. (miss the barfing emoji!)

He told his story and was court ordered to see someone about "Anger Management"...which was a blessing in disguise his new Therapist was really helpful to him moving forward. 

What I'm getting at is that something as benign as throwing a phone into the couch out of frustration can blow up into something that can set you back. 

His children had no idea that because they went along with their mother due to parental alienation or just going along to get along, they may have had to have supervised visitation with their dad, and because of the alimony and child support he was paying, he did not have the funds to pay someone to supervise the visits. So they would not have seen him at all.

Hang in there.  I too am happy to hear you've taken action and are heading to court to get custody worked out.  Your son deserves to have his dad in his life.

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
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Relationship status: Dissolved
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« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2020, 04:58:11 PM »

Panda39, I’m terrified of going to court. It’s so upside down. This woman can take my child from me and feel nothing while doing it.
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
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Panda39
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2020, 05:14:07 PM »

I know it's scary, most of us have never had to go to court for anything so don't know how it works.  It's also scary because we like to control things and in this scenario someone else will be making a really important decision that effects your life.

But doing what you are doing now is not working, so you need to change up your approach.  By going to court you are asserting your rights as your son's dad.  Being prepared is important too,  I hope you have been documenting her refusals to let you see your son and your efforts to have contact, that information should help you.

Try not to focus on the fear, or on your ex, focus on the goal of seeing your son.  Keep your eye on the prize.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) 

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
Crispy Waffle

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Posts: 37



« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2020, 11:03:12 PM »

Panda39, I’m terrified of going to court. It’s so upside down. This woman can take my child from me and feel nothing while doing it.

JNChell, I can't recall if you mentioned having read "Don't Alienate the Kids". I'm reading it now and its helping me get my head straight about making sure I'm not contributing to a high conflict divorce. I know that I can be my own worst enemy if I let my emotions get the better of me, and she has already talked about sharing some of my venting at her with her lawyer.

There might be some valuable knowledge in that book for you and your situation. You may even find that you can avoid court if you play your cards right. I've finally reconciled myself with the fact that I can only go up from here, so long as I don't shoot myself in the foot. That has allowed me to stop being as anxious about the future. And face it, we can prepare for the future, but we can't control it, so I try not to be controlled by my emotions over it. I keep finding that fueling my reaction to her BS and it becomes a vicious, self-perpetuating cycle. And I think she is trying to manipulate me to behave that way; baiting me into f-ing up. I try to short-circuit that when I feel myself losing it. Boy is it hard.

"Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, no one can help you as much." -Buddha

"The past can be nothing but the memory of the way we felt about it. So we are prisoners of our own past in this way." -Gurdjieff
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JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2020, 11:41:44 PM »

Thanks, CW. I’m familiar with the title of the book, but I haven’t read it yet. My emotions are on overdrive with her. I own my part and won’t deny my bad behavior. I’ll be damned if I’ll be quiet when it comes to our Son. I understand that there is a lot of advice that is available when it comes to these situations. On a societal level, things are not getting better and I don’t see any benefit in following guidelines that keep pushing a toxic narrative forward. I’m not going to be quiet when it comes to my Son. If she successfully alienates him from me, and there comes a time when he’s curious, he’ll need proof that his dad fought for him. Not all of this BS that is currently being floated. A Son needs a Father that is a man. An example. Someone that doesn’t give up. An example. That’s what parents should be for their children. In making this decision, I have to ask myself if I can endure the worst case scenario. If I don’t see him for a very long time. I can because he’s my Son. I’ll never abandon him.

It is hard. I have all of the tools and knowledge with me. It’s really hard when I can plainly see her using our child like this. I reckon that that shows that I’m still weak against this BS. Feeling helpless sucks. I love my Son more than anything. She knows that. That’s her card. I don’t hold any cards because I don’t play that game. I’ve tried, but I can’t beat a narcissist.
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2020, 11:54:51 PM »

Thank you Panda39. I’ve always appreciated your pragmatic and objective approach. I mean that with sincerity. It’s just hard. I love my Son. She knows it. She also knows that I know her because I’ve called her on it. The one thing that can hurt me the most is now in play. I messed up. I worry about him. I’m sure that he’s fine, but I worry. He’s only 5. I send him care packages every week. I hope that his mom is reading the messages that I send to him.

I’m trying to keep myself squared away, but it is very hard when I have no contact with my Son.
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
Crispy Waffle

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced!
Posts: 37



« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2020, 02:25:16 PM »

Thanks, CW. I’m familiar with the title of the book, but I haven’t read it yet. My emotions are on overdrive with her. I own my part and won’t deny my bad behavior. I’ll be damned if I’ll be quiet when it comes to our Son. I understand that there is a lot of advice that is available when it comes to these situations. On a societal level, things are not getting better and I don’t see any benefit in following guidelines that keep pushing a toxic narrative forward. I’m not going to be quiet when it comes to my Son. If she successfully alienates him from me, and there comes a time when he’s curious, he’ll need proof that his dad fought for him. Not all of this BS that is currently being floated. A Son needs a Father that is a man. An example. Someone that doesn’t give up. An example. That’s what parents should be for their children. In making this decision, I have to ask myself if I can endure the worst case scenario. If I don’t see him for a very long time. I can because he’s my Son. I’ll never abandon him.

It is hard. I have all of the tools and knowledge with me. It’s really hard when I can plainly see her using our child like this. I reckon that that shows that I’m still weak against this BS. Feeling helpless sucks. I love my Son more than anything. She knows that. That’s her card. I don’t hold any cards because I don’t play that game. I’ve tried, but I can’t beat a narcissist.

Indeed! It's that knife edge that I'm trying to walk as well. Fight for what is right, without looking like I am the problem. And like you, my ex holds many of the cards and is adept at being manipulative, at presenting herself as the victim.

The book speaks to the issue of the courts being ill-suited to dealing with family matters, and in fact potentially undermining the "better" parent if they approach the divorce the wrong way. I intend to write out a specific strategy, with consultation from my therapist, on how to approach this if/when it goes to court, mediation, etc. I'll be damned if I'm going to continue to be subject to her abuse, manipulation, etc. But if I go in with the mindset of me against her, then it potentially backfires, especially if she can flip the script and use that as "see, he's abusive". There's a fine line between demonstrating what is best for your boy, and being seen as pushing what is best for you and/or trying to undermine your ex. It's a big poop sandwich, and I'm tired of eating it. But it looks like it is on the menu for a while longer.
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