Days after we moved across states for him, he was already seeing someone else

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I didn't expect yesterday. I should have, but I just didn't. There weren't any excuses for his behavior. I can't say "if only I had..." I shouldn't ever say that, but like many of you know, it's easy to start thinking it's US.

Shortly after we moved across states for his new job (he had already been out here for a month and a couple weeks), he had a business trip.

Apparently, that's not all.

After I received a welcome email to an online checking account, I called our bank. Would he know if I looked at our finances? Nope. So, I did.

While I was unpacking and putting away an entire house of things, he stayed an extra night at a Hilton. $135. He spent $204 at a restaurant. During a pandemic. He spent $130 at Von Maur. And that feels like a jab. It's a store he knows I always liked browsing.

A $500 purchase with Venmo.

He came home empty-handed. I remember feeling disappointed. He seemed to have the time. It sounded like he was out and about. I guess he was.

I can't make excuses anymore.

I took the kids and left yesterday. He defended his actions, saying that the kids and I always had everything we needed. That's not even true. We need HIM. We need him present and healthy and to stop spending money on every online w**** he finds. And we just moved into a ginormous house. We DO need things for this house.

He says he didn't sleep with her. I'm sure there was something else involved. He will not be sleeping with me either. I moved downstairs to the sofa that's closest to the oldest kid's room.

Ah, the oldest. Both of my boys. What wonderful hearts they have. Both hugged ME off and on all day yesterday and especially last night.

You might remember how the youngest blamed himself for his dad's angry outbursts? And that the oldest didn't notice? The oldest told me last night that he did notice things, like that "Dad gets overly mad about things that aren't a big deal."

The oldest told me that there are things he would like, that he doesn't know what will happen, but he knows that whatever happens, it may suck at first, but then we will be okay.

What did I do to deserve these wonderful little people?

At least I am able to talk about how important it is to deal with our emotions. To point out that he needs to talk and process and not push things down. I want to break this cycle.

Back to yesterday. Yes, it was on the youngest's birthday. I don't even feel like I was triggered and reacting. I couldn't feel emotional about him screwing around again because it isn't about me. I can be upset and I can be sad, but it's more about what we COULD have had and what I thought we were. Of the lack of importance he places on us as his family.

His 200 restaurant purchase blows my mind. It was on the FIRST DAY he was gone. He checked into a different hotel on purpose so no one at work would see him.

He's been so worried about me getting Covid, the kids are doing online through their brick-and-mortar school, and the boys and I have sacrificed to try to stay home...and then he does that.

I told a close family friend all of it and I can still hear her sobbing in my head. She had no idea. No one did. I can't protect him anymore. I'll finally tell my own mother today. I can't feel like a failure because of this. His actions do not define me.

His actions do not define me. That bears repeating. If I say it enough, I will start to believe it more.

So, after talking to him on the phone, then calling an old pastor from a couple years ago (the last church we went to and just loved to pieces, although I could have done without him saying "I'm not sure why you called me." He's younger than me. I'm trying not to feel stupid hurt over it, he did end the convo with being glad I called and to stay safe and that this behavior ISN'T normal, so that helped).

I talked to my therapist too. We will come up with a crisis plan today.  I headed home then.

Yes, he told me I was a selfish b**** for taking the kids on the youngest's birthday. It didn't matter that he spent money on someone else or lied or didn't talk to us. It didn't matter that I just wanted him to be healthy. He alternated between telling me that wasn't true to telling me he was fine and it's just WHAT HE NEEDS. He screamed into the phone like I haven't heard before. Just screamed. Then he'd flip back into saying things are my fault for being a "controlling b****."

He said how over the years I always said I would do this thing or do that thing and it would last  a week and I'd stop. Funny, we went over that back when he loved me a few months ago, and he understood how his behavior and lack of being present or making me feel safe destroyed all of that.

I guess he forgot.

He screamed that if I wasn't home before he got back, that he would f*** my life. Another time he told me that if he ever found out I lied about what my therapist said or what the youngest said (T: BPD, youngest: being bad and reason for Dad's anger), that he would f*** me up.

I can't believe this is my husband. How is this that man? Where did he go? Is he even still in there at all?

Eventually, he did calm down. Sometimes he'd talk about getting treatment, other times he wouldn't. He'd occasionally rant, but he stopped screaming. I feel like he KNOWS he needs it. I do. My gut says he knows. He is going to still work with his therapist. It's not enough, but it's better than nothing. She is able to make the diagnosis, he said. He'll need a few more sessions though before she'll do that.

I would love to see him checked in somewhere for at least a week. Sometimes, he seemed open to the idea, but he needs an "official diagnosis" so he yelled at me about my lack of planning about that too, asking if I was taking the kids away for a couple weeks until that happened.

Even though I hate the day it all happened, the kids actually had a good time. We were at an incredible scenic overlook. We had a beautiful drive. I dropped off the check to pay for part of my car since he "forgot" that morning, just to make sure it got done.

Being away from someone so heavy makes us all feel better.

I did head home again. I sent a photo of the four of us from our vacation last March. I said I just wanted THIS. Us. Our family. Together. He still sputtered, but it wasn't as hot.

When we got back, I tried to hug him, because we always made up before although, I admit, I never took the step of leaving with the kids before. He was a statue. He told me, in the most cold, emotionless voice, if I ever took the kids away from him again, that he would f*** me up. He made a comment here or there.

His mother called and he spent at least half an hour talking to her, upstairs, with the door closed. No idea. Then he spent a good half an hour on his phone, while the kids and I hung out with the youngest's new toys. For all his talk of how I was a horrible mother for taking the kids away on one of their birthdays, I was still the one there and spending time with them.

It probably didn't help that I think the youngest is more excited about my present. Normally, I picked out all the gifts. Just this last July, he picked out something for the oldest on his own. Now, for the youngest, who turned 11, he picked out a professional racing drone. While the youngest is a fan of drones, the one he talked about six months ago was a far more simple model, but still an upgrade from the one he already had.

He is 11. Husband can't figure out how to use it and there are so many knobs and switches...and he spent a lot on it. I think youngest may be scared to even use it, what with the whole anger issues thing with husband.

I got the kid a microscope (and other stuff, like Legos of course, haha) but the microscope was the big thing. It's been on my list to get him for just ages and ages. I'm so glad I finally did. He was just so thrilled. I know H was disappointed about that. The focus always needs to be on H.

I came up with brother's presents, so on a kid birthday, they have a present to give their brother to celebrate the day they became brothers. It makes everyone happy and keeps everyone busy. It's probably my most brilliant parenting idea ever (because most of mine came from Berenstain Bears books! HA!).

The oldest was building his set. H sits down and starts messing with it, adding pieces to a section, taking some off. I could tell oldest was irritated. H made it about him and "look how clever I am." At one point, oldest said it was going to take him awhile to fix the other thing H decided to "makeover." H laughed and said the kid had nothing better to do anyway.

I still don't know what I will do about our living situation. I'm sleeping on the sofa. I'm not going to use our bathroom anymore for showers (glass shower). I'll use the kids. I'd like to take my clothes out of the closet too, but there wouldn't be room elsewhere for them. So, I guess I'll just leave them. I'll grab stuff before the weekend so I don't even have to go in there. It's a three-bedroom suite so he can say anything or do anything and no one would hear. Not risking that.

Husband has always been so adamant about HIM being the one to leave. Last time, he mentioned staying in the garage. He wants me to still go through all the motions and take care of him and kids and house while he pays the bills, comes in for family dinner, and does what he wants, with whomever he wants.

It might be my only option for now. I can keep working on my site, I'll be left alone. Kids and I can just go to parks or whatever. H is obsessed with his printer anyway right now. Although he is obsessively exercising too at times. I don't know.

I don't want to be around him. I KNOW that. I am done. I deserve love and affection and to not have it withheld. I know there has to be happy marriages.

I think back to all the business trips he had last year and how the three of us (kids and I) just got along so well. Any kid behavior issues always vanished. Always. I didn't associate the two at the time. I guess we have all been walking on eggshells without even knowing it.

We have four cats and I can't split them up too. They are so bonded together and with the kids. It seems so cruel. I don't know how I will ever find somewhere to live though and pay for it! and not have it be some hole. But where on earth will I find a place that accepts four cats? Sigh. I can't imagine renting again but I likely will have zero choice. 

Funny thing. This house, mansion, 5000 sq feet of house, whatev, doesn't feel like home. It hasn't felt like home. I won't even miss it. It's just too big for me. It's not my style. It's just not ME.It feels more like we are staying at a bed and breakfast than this being our house. I don't think moving into something smaller will be too traumatic...as long as there is room for their very large Lego everything. I think H really enjoys the status of it all. I'm just embarrassed. It was the only house available but it also sat on the market for a year so...

Funny, because he did throw that in my face while on the phone. He said how I want him to be the perfect husband with a house and picket fence and 2.5 kids. That he has to fit MY image of how he should be, that I don't care about who he is and I never has.

Well. Yes. Of course I want the husband, house, and kids dream. I didn't say that, but that's what I want. Okay, I mean, I'm done having kids. But I want a healthy family. I want that life. A healthy, good marriage.

I just don't even know how to do any of this. I think I will meet with a lawyer today, I did call yesterday, and get advice on options. And find out how much his services will cost. How do you shop around for lawyers? It just feels like there is so much to do and plan and figure out on top of trying to find a job.

I know so many of you have been here before. I just wish I had been able to better push through my grief over his affairs last year to work on my site then.

For now, I'll try to plan. I reached out to my uncle. I'll reach out to other writers I know, and ask about steady work. I need to try to continue working from home. I cannot upset absolutely everything in the boys' lives. I just can't.

Until that happens, I'll keep walking on eggshells. I'll try to remember the tricks in the book to prevent his raging. I'll keep trying to read and understand and shrug his jerk remarks off. I'll keep practicing. I'll work on my neglected relationships, figure out how to ensure I don't fall for someone else like this someday, and I'll stop hiding my imperfect life.

I'll take the boys to parks and on bike rides and on hikes to keep them engaged. Therapist appointment for me for them in three days. They will have that too.

I've pretended to be happy for so long, it's hard to remember what it's like to actually be happy. But I was this past year, when he acted like he truly cared. I think he really did then. I think the move away from us just snapped something in him. He's back to the behaviors he had stopped for so long.

Ah, well. I need to move on. I'm turning 41 this year. My life might just be beginning.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

I didn't expect yesterday. I should have, but I just didn't. There weren't any excuses for his behavior. I can't say "if only I had..." I shouldn't ever say that, but like many of you know, it's easy to start thinking it's US.

Shortly after we moved across states for his new job (he had already been out here for a month and a couple weeks), he had a business trip.

Apparently, that's not all.

After I received a welcome email to an online checking account, I called our bank. Would he know if I looked at our finances? Nope. So, I did.

While I was unpacking and putting away an entire house of things, he stayed an extra night at a Hilton. $135. He spent $204 at a restaurant. During a pandemic. He spent $130 at Von Maur. And that feels like a jab. It's a store he knows I always liked browsing.

A $500 purchase with Venmo.

He came home empty-handed. I remember feeling disappointed. He seemed to have the time. It sounded like he was out and about. I guess he was.

I can't make excuses anymore.

I took the kids and left yesterday. He defended his actions, saying that the kids and I always had everything we needed. That's not even true. We need HIM. We need him present and healthy and to stop spending money on every online w**** he finds. And we just moved into a ginormous house. We DO need things for this house.

He says he didn't sleep with her. I'm sure there was something else involved. He will not be sleeping with me either. I moved downstairs to the sofa that's closest to the oldest kid's room.

Ah, the oldest. Both of my boys. What wonderful hearts they have. Both hugged ME off and on all day yesterday and especially last night.

You might remember how the youngest blamed himself for his dad's angry outbursts? And that the oldest didn't notice? The oldest told me last night that he did notice things, like that "Dad gets overly mad about things that aren't a big deal."

The oldest told me that there are things he would like, that he doesn't know what will happen, but he knows that whatever happens, it may suck at first, but then we will be okay.

What did I do to deserve these wonderful little people?

At least I am able to talk about how important it is to deal with our emotions. To point out that he needs to talk and process and not push things down. I want to break this cycle.

Back to yesterday. Yes, it was on the youngest's birthday. I don't even feel like I was triggered and reacting. I couldn't feel emotional about him screwing around again because it isn't about me. I can be upset and I can be sad, but it's more about what we COULD have had and what I thought we were. Of the lack of importance he places on us as his family.

His 200 restaurant purchase blows my mind. It was on the FIRST DAY he was gone. He checked into a different hotel on purpose so no one at work would see him.

He's been so worried about me getting Covid, the kids are doing online through their brick-and-mortar school, and the boys and I have sacrificed to try to stay home...and then he does that.

I told a close family friend all of it and I can still hear her sobbing in my head. She had no idea. No one did. I can't protect him anymore. I'll finally tell my own mother today. I can't feel like a failure because of this. His actions do not define me.

His actions do not define me. That bears repeating. If I say it enough, I will start to believe it more.

So, after talking to him on the phone, then calling an old pastor from a couple years ago (the last church we went to and just loved to pieces, although I could have done without him saying "I'm not sure why you called me." He's younger than me. I'm trying not to feel stupid hurt over it, he did end the convo with being glad I called and to stay safe and that this behavior ISN'T normal, so that helped).

I talked to my therapist too. We will come up with a crisis plan today.  I headed home then.

Yes, he told me I was a selfish b**** for taking the kids on the youngest's birthday. It didn't matter that he spent money on someone else or lied or didn't talk to us. It didn't matter that I just wanted him to be healthy. He alternated between telling me that wasn't true to telling me he was fine and it's just WHAT HE NEEDS. He screamed into the phone like I haven't heard before. Just screamed. Then he'd flip back into saying things are my fault for being a "controlling b****."

He said how over the years I always said I would do this thing or do that thing and it would last  a week and I'd stop. Funny, we went over that back when he loved me a few months ago, and he understood how his behavior and lack of being present or making me feel safe destroyed all of that.

I guess he forgot.

He screamed that if I wasn't home before he got back, that he would f*** my life. Another time he told me that if he ever found out I lied about what my therapist said or what the youngest said (T: BPD, youngest: being bad and reason for Dad's anger), that he would f*** me up.

I can't believe this is my husband. How is this that man? Where did he go? Is he even still in there at all?

Eventually, he did calm down. Sometimes he'd talk about getting treatment, other times he wouldn't. He'd occasionally rant, but he stopped screaming. I feel like he KNOWS he needs it. I do. My gut says he knows. He is going to still work with his therapist. It's not enough, but it's better than nothing. She is able to make the diagnosis, he said. He'll need a few more sessions though before she'll do that.

I would love to see him checked in somewhere for at least a week. Sometimes, he seemed open to the idea, but he needs an "official diagnosis" so he yelled at me about my lack of planning about that too, asking if I was taking the kids away for a couple weeks until that happened.

Even though I hate the day it all happened, the kids actually had a good time. We were at an incredible scenic overlook. We had a beautiful drive. I dropped off the check to pay for part of my car since he "forgot" that morning, just to make sure it got done.

Being away from someone so heavy makes us all feel better.

I did head home again. I sent a photo of the four of us from our vacation last March. I said I just wanted THIS. Us. Our family. Together. He still sputtered, but it wasn't as hot.

When we got back, I tried to hug him, because we always made up before although, I admit, I never took the step of leaving with the kids before. He was a statue. He told me, in the most cold, emotionless voice, if I ever took the kids away from him again, that he would f*** me up. He made a comment here or there.

His mother called and he spent at least half an hour talking to her, upstairs, with the door closed. No idea. Then he spent a good half an hour on his phone, while the kids and I hung out with the youngest's new toys. For all his talk of how I was a horrible mother for taking the kids away on one of their birthdays, I was still the one there and spending time with them.

It probably didn't help that I think the youngest is more excited about my present. Normally, I picked out all the gifts. Just this last July, he picked out something for the oldest on his own. Now, for the youngest, who turned 11, he picked out a professional racing drone. While the youngest is a fan of drones, the one he talked about six months ago was a far more simple model, but still an upgrade from the one he already had.

He is 11. Husband can't figure out how to use it and there are so many knobs and switches...and he spent a lot on it. I think youngest may be scared to even use it, what with the whole anger issues thing with husband.

I got the kid a microscope (and other stuff, like Legos of course, haha) but the microscope was the big thing. It's been on my list to get him for just ages and ages. I'm so glad I finally did. He was just so thrilled. I know H was disappointed about that. The focus always needs to be on H.

I came up with brother's presents, so on a kid birthday, they have a present to give their brother to celebrate the day they became brothers. It makes everyone happy and keeps everyone busy. It's probably my most brilliant parenting idea ever (because most of mine came from Berenstain Bears books! HA!).

The oldest was building his set. H sits down and starts messing with it, adding pieces to a section, taking some off. I could tell oldest was irritated. H made it about him and "look how clever I am." At one point, oldest said it was going to take him awhile to fix the other thing H decided to "makeover." H laughed and said the kid had nothing better to do anyway.

I still don't know what I will do about our living situation. I'm sleeping on the sofa. I'm not going to use our bathroom anymore for showers (glass shower). I'll use the kids. I'd like to take my clothes out of the closet too, but there wouldn't be room elsewhere for them. So, I guess I'll just leave them. I'll grab stuff before the weekend so I don't even have to go in there. It's a three-bedroom suite so he can say anything or do anything and no one would hear. Not risking that.

Husband has always been so adamant about HIM being the one to leave. Last time, he mentioned staying in the garage. He wants me to still go through all the motions and take care of him and kids and house while he pays the bills, comes in for family dinner, and does what he wants, with whomever he wants.

It might be my only option for now. I can keep working on my site, I'll be left alone. Kids and I can just go to parks or whatever. H is obsessed with his printer anyway right now. Although he is obsessively exercising too at times. I don't know.

I don't want to be around him. I KNOW that. I am done. I deserve love and affection and to not have it withheld. I know there has to be happy marriages.

I think back to all the business trips he had last year and how the three of us (kids and I) just got along so well. Any kid behavior issues always vanished. Always. I didn't associate the two at the time. I guess we have all been walking on eggshells without even knowing it.

We have four cats and I can't split them up too. They are so bonded together and with the kids. It seems so cruel. I don't know how I will ever find somewhere to live though and pay for it! and not have it be some hole. But where on earth will I find a place that accepts four cats? Sigh. I can't imagine renting again but I likely will have zero choice. 

Funny thing. This house, mansion, 5000 sq feet of house, whatev, doesn't feel like home. It hasn't felt like home. I won't even miss it. It's just too big for me. It's not my style. It's just not ME.It feels more like we are staying at a bed and breakfast than this being our house. I don't think moving into something smaller will be too traumatic...as long as there is room for their very large Lego everything. I think H really enjoys the status of it all. I'm just embarrassed. It was the only house available but it also sat on the market for a year so...

Funny, because he did throw that in my face while on the phone. He said how I want him to be the perfect husband with a house and picket fence and 2.5 kids. That he has to fit MY image of how he should be, that I don't care about who he is and I never has.

Well. Yes. Of course I want the husband, house, and kids dream. I didn't say that, but that's what I want. Okay, I mean, I'm done having kids. But I want a healthy family. I want that life. A healthy, good marriage.

I just don't even know how to do any of this. I think I will meet with a lawyer today, I did call yesterday, and get advice on options. And find out how much his services will cost. How do you shop around for lawyers? It just feels like there is so much to do and plan and figure out on top of trying to find a job.

I know so many of you have been here before. I just wish I had been able to better push through my grief over his affairs last year to work on my site then.

For now, I'll try to plan. I reached out to my uncle. I'll reach out to other writers I know, and ask about steady work. I need to try to continue working from home. I cannot upset absolutely everything in the boys' lives. I just can't.

Until that happens, I'll keep walking on eggshells. I'll try to remember the tricks in the book to prevent his raging. I'll keep trying to read and understand and shrug his jerk remarks off. I'll keep practicing. I'll work on my neglected relationships, figure out how to ensure I don't fall for someone else like this someday, and I'll stop hiding my imperfect life.

I'll take the boys to parks and on bike rides and on hikes to keep them engaged. Therapist appointment for me for them in three days. They will have that too.

I've pretended to be happy for so long, it's hard to remember what it's like to actually be happy. But I was this past year, when he acted like he truly cared. I think he really did then. I think the move away from us just snapped something in him. He's back to the behaviors he had stopped for so long.

Ah, well. I need to move on. I'm turning 41 this year. My life might just be beginning.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry.    My ex husband was a serial infidelitor. I knew about some of his affairs, but not about all. It is really painful when you have to confront it. And I had no idea how I was going to manage on my own. But it all worked out--much better than I could even have imagined. And though I married another husband with BPD (seemed like "family" after growing up with a BPD mother), this one is really kind and only has "traits" that are pretty insignificant, compared to the first.

Life can get better when you're not being lied to or expected to tolerate abhorrent behavior.

[GaGrl]

I'm so very sorry you are dealing with this hurt and disappointment. That you realize his infidelities are about him and not you is important -- don't take that into yourself.

My husband was married for many years to a uBPD/NPD woman whose primary behavior problems were constant and blatant infidelities and rages. He will say he stayed to provide a stable parent for the children -- also, he was a career military officer at a time the military was not accepting of accommodating to single parents. She finally moved out when the children left high school. By that time, H was depressed and had serious health issues related to stress. It can wear you down.

The considerations you listed are all important. You sound as if you are thinking clearly through your pain. That's good. Stay here and keep posting.

[kells76]

So sorry you and the boys are going through this. Just reaching out from Family Law to say these questions make so much sense:

I just don't even know how to do any of this. I think I will meet with a lawyer today, I did call yesterday, and get advice on options. And find out how much his services will cost. How do you shop around for lawyers? It just feels like there is so much to do and plan and figure out on top of trying to find a job.

and please don't hesitate to pop over there for even more support.

The nutshell version is that you can usually call up a few (3 is a typical #). As soon as you call, they usually take down your name and your spouse's name, so then your spouse can't use them (conflict of interest) -- and that's even if you don't end up using them. They might ask you some questions over the phone, and sometimes can give you general advice over the phone. You can do the "compare and contrast" of the different L's (lawyers) via phone, although sometimes you don't actually get to talk to the L, it's a receptionist or paralegal. Then, once you have a couple or a few that sound good, you can do initial meetings with them. You haven't hired anyone yet, so there's no retainer. Initial meetings range from free to a hundred bucks or so, maybe more or less depending on the L and where you live. Talk through your scenario and goals, and take notes or ask if you can record the meeting. Then, out of the 2 or 3 you meet with, decide who seems to get it the best. You'll probably want a proactive, problem solving kind of L, versus a "just rubber stamping the forms" L. This may go all the way to court, so consider someone who has some litigation experience... and experience with "high conflict" divorces.

Consider (privately) picking up the book "Splitting" by Bill Eddy, a lawyer who specializes in high conflict persons. It's about protecting yourself when divorcing someone with a PD like BPD and/or NPD.

Lots of info, I know. You can be prepared ahead of time to help you and your boys!

Cheers;

kells76

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I'm trying not to take it personally. I know it isn't about me this time. After all, these are "his NEEDS!" Hahaha

But the timing and money part of it...

He hasn't texted at all today. That's not good. That's not typical.

I see he burned little love notes he had written to me in the fireplace. He left the evidence there, of course. God forbid he pick up after himself.

I feel like he sends all these little cries for help. But he's 37. He has to help himself at some point.

I appreciate all of this.

I am just so isolated now it's all so hard. I told my mom today about everything and that was awful. I talked to a lawyer then and that was awful. I told a close family friend yesterday and, you guessed it, awful (esp. since her ex is likely BPD so she relived some of through me, and I hate that).

I'm just ready when I can have some new, more positive words enter my vocabulary!

I have reached out to my godfather. I confided in him about earlier affairs and all, and he may have solid advice, or a job lead (he's also a writer). Or something.

I can't believe that 14 months ago I was ridiculously happy. I'd like to think it will be sooner than 14 months that I can feel that way again!

Just thank you all for making me feel a little less lonely. I know  so many of you understand exactly these issues.

But oh, my heart. $204 on dinner out with someone else.

Then the $130 whatever from Von Maur.

I just...we used to have much fun together.

[AskingWhy]

Truly, you are feeling the harsh reality of being in a R/S with a person with a PD, especially BPD or NPD.  My heart goes out to you.   

They have their own version of reality, and it's not the one we inhabit.  It is incredibly painful when the mask they have chosen to show you comes off.  It becomes clear that we were living in a lie, a lie told to our very faces.

You most likely were "love bombed" at the beginning of your R/S.  BPDs are great chameleons and will show you the side of themselves that they know we'd like to see.  We become hooked and we think we've found the love of our lives.  In no time at all, they are our partners and  we're soon married.

My own FOO made me a perfect target for BPDs and NPDs.  My uBPD X H was covertly incested by his M.  She had a H (she was divorced and remarried) but was far too fond of her son, if you get my meaning.  Early in our courtship, he'd go off on private holidays with his M and stepfather, and I was excluded.  We had already been dating for months, and I was his steady girl, and yet excluded.  Red flag.  The M would speak to her S in a whiny or seductive voice.  And yet I know this man love me on the one hand, and yet also loved his mother on the other.  That is why she felt so threatened.

This man and I had such a connection.  We'd talk for hours on our mutual areas of interest.  We moved into an apartment, and then we eloped at the courthouse.  This man did not tell his M that we were married.  He said the death of his sole sibling was a blow to his M, and losing her S in marriage would hurt her.  And so I waited and waited. 

One day, my H arrived home from work after I had arrived home.  He barely put down his brief case when he flatly said, "I don't love you.  I don't think I ever loved you.  I have to go."  And then he turned to leave the apartment and he was out of my life.  I was so stunned I never followed him, thinking he was just in one of his moods.  I never saw him again.  I tried to phone him at his parents' house, but he would not return my calls.   I left messages at his new phone number, hoping he'd call me back or at least give me closure.  I finally salvaged my dignity and stopped calling.  If he wanted to go, let him go.  I'd been a good wife to him, caring and concerned.  He'd been in counseling for several months, the counseling I myself had recommended.  I even found the name of a T and gave it to him.  It was like a slap in the face. 

Desperate for closure, I called his T and she actually spoke to me.  She simply said, "He has a lot of problems," and that was all she could say, of course.  She probably knew he had serious mental issues.  Only then did I start understanding BPD.  I waited months hoping to make sense of it all, hoping his therapy was working, and then I was served with divorce papers.  It was all handled through our lawyers, and I never saw him since that day he left.

Please know I partially understand what you are feeling, Truly.  These people really don't know who they are. They are usually operating on some very primal level of childhood trauma.  It's not logical but it's their terrifying hollow world that they try to fill up with drugs, sex, alcohol and other addictions.  They want love and approval, but the splitting nature of the illness won't let them love anyone.  They usually hate themselves on some level. 

I later learned from mutual friends years later that my X H had remarried and started a family in another state.  I wonder if he is divorced now.  My H did not have a mistress, but in a way, it was his mother.  Sick, I know.

Whatever you do from this point on, be sure to get a copy of Bill Eddy's, "Splitting."  I wish I had this resource for my divorce.

 

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

That is a horrible story. I am so so sorry for your loss as well.

I went through our bank account over the last month. He has spent almost $2000 on this other woman.

Not even a week after we moved to this state (just five weeks ago), he said he had to go on a biz trip. I was okay until Day 3. Then I started having triggers and struggling and the kids were struggling too, since this was all new to us, the house was a mess of boxes, and, well, you know moving sucks.

He had to stay an extra day. He said he was told he had to be there in case the failure occured, but it only occurs at 7 PM on Friday nights. He would let me know if he was able to leave earlier or not.

He purchased a flight too.

He has spent an absolute fortune. Not just on her, he's spent $355 on 3D printing stuff (where it used to be around 20 for filament) and $400 on the fancy drone for our 11 year old! OMG! H can't even figure out how to use it BECAUSE IT'S NOT MADE FOR KIDS.

I'm calling the crisis center today to see if I am allowed to leave the state with the kids. I don't actually have nowhere else to go though. We have four cats. I cannot leave them with him and it would kill the kids (and me).

I have no idea how I am going to get out of this mess with what remains of my family.

With so much awfulness and change, I just can't ditch the kitties too. It's bad enough to think about the kids having to start all over with school again too, if we do head back to our home state. 

I don't know where to go.

I slept on the sofa closest to the oldest's room again. H kissed me on the forehead before he left, he thought I was sleeping. WTF

Last night he called me "babe" once, which is not a nickname he has ever used for me before.

I really, REALLY want to bring the twin mattress down from the attic...but I don't want to be outright confrontational, so I'll keep dealing with the sofa for now.

I can't believe I thought this house and town and state were going to be a new start.

He didn't even wait a week.

I'll read that book today. Thank you.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

After another day of giving him the silent treatment (I am trying desperately hard to lay low while I plot my escape), and of him not texting me at all (which is a relief, because if your BPD person was the ANSWER MY EVERYTHING NOW type, it's a lot to respond to), he sent a text this morning:

"Has your group actually seen improvements from the week long therapy retreats?"

I responded by saying

"Yes. It's not one and done but it's a bigger boost without the distractions."

I am still moving forward with my plans to leave. My unc and I chatted yesterday. He told me to sell the stocks he has gifted me over the last couple of years. I stupidly added hubby to it, but unc is finding out if I can just transfer the stock back to him. Then he'll cut me a check. I'm getting a PO box here soon and opening a secret bank account myself.

I need to find steady writing work so I can add to that escape nest but OMG. Emotional stuff and the exhaustion that goes with it doesn't make it easy to write. I hate that.

And four cats? Two kids? Who is ever going to let me rent? And renting again. OMG. I just feel so old and beaten down to do all of that. We live in a 4700 square foot house. While it is too big for me, H loved it (of course, STATUS! I see the light about that now).

The youngest cried this morning. He said yesterday, "I just miss Dad." Because H may be here, but he's not mentally here right now. This morning, the kid said he was just upset about Dad and he was sad because I'm not happy like I was. OMG. I hate that. I feel like I'm failing at all of this. I comforted him best I could.

Sigh. I asked earlier, but has the being boring and distancing thing worked when there are kids? I don't want him to leave them, but I do want him to detach from me.

At the same time, I don't think he is mentally capable of taking care of them at all. Our sons someday visiting him alone makes me terrified. At least they are 11 and 15. But still. From his driving to his angry outbursts, lack of giving them personal space or respecting their things, I just don't know. I won't be there to smooth it over or guide him to something else.

I'm getting an STD test today and speaking with a therapist I've lined up for the kids. They need someone other than me to talk to about their feelings. I want someone to help them learn how to acknowledge their feelings too, just to make sure they don't end up BPD or with the traits.

It just...all this makes me so scared I will end up alone forever. How will I know I won't make the same mistakes and meet another BPD? Are there actual happy marriages? What if I never meet anyone at all? Then I WILL be that old woman alone with her cats!

[I Am Redeemed]

I know this is all overwhelming. I stayed in my relationship much longer than was actually even safe for me because of the fear of the unknown and how I was going to make it. I had to rehome my cats when I left,  but my exit was a run-for-your-life type situation. I moved in with a coworker friend until I got on my feet.

Believe it or not,  there are pet-friendly landlords,  it just may take some researching and networking to find them.

I totally get the "old lady with the cats " thing. I am almost 43, I am still single after almost three years,  and I have
3 cats. But it really is ok. I am doing trauma focused therapy and I am starting to maybe believe that I will be able to have another relationship one day, a healthy one.

Learning how to identify red flags and determine my own values and boundaries (and how to protect them) is helping me realize that I am not doomed to falling into the same trap of picking a partner with serious emotional and mental issues. We generally attract partners that match us in terms of emotional health,  which doesn't mean that we have the same issues,  but it does mean that we may be lacking in boundaries or emotional maturity.

This was certainly true for me,  but the divide grew larger because my exbpd (untreated) did not. He has not changed emotionally or mentally in over twenty years.

We can continue to grow in emotional maturity with support,  therapy,  etc. and we don't have to stay stuck in the same unhealthy patterns. I am not the same person I was when I got into my relationship with my ex and I would not make  the same choices today as I did then.

[Cat Familiar]

I wasn't sure how I was going to get out of my disastrous first marriage, since our lives were so intertwined. No kids (I knew he wasn't cut out to be dad material and I didn't have a need to be a mom), but we had horses, goats, and lots of cats.

What happened was that he met somebody after I broke up with him and decided to move in with her. I kept the place (which I had paid for through an inheritance), though he thought he'd get a significant sum from me, in contradiction to state law.

I did end up paying him quite a bit, but not nearly as much as he imagined. Then I kept acquiring cats--not intentionally. Five kittens were dumped near my driveway, two cats came from the vet who had two feral moms with large litters under his house, two came from a neighbor who died--boosting my total to 18 at one point. Of that number, I'd only voluntarily adopted 5, and the rest either showed up or were foisted upon me.    Hence my name on this site.

Now I'm down to single digits and intend to keep it that way.

[AskingWhy]

We, as partners of BPDs, must determine what is not negotiable.   For me, it would be infidelity.  Granted the covert incest with his children was betrayal and painful, and extended well into their adult years, and still continues to some extent, an extramarital affair would not be forgivable.  For me, it would be the height of poor judgement.  Driving drunk is another one for me.  (When his adult children call, I cease to exist for him.  He gets this crazy love smile on his face.  These are the same children who emotionally blackmail him.)

Please read Bill Eddy.   I cannot recommend his book highly enough.  You make think, "Yes, I will get around to it," but where you are now, to planning leaving, you need this information now.  Please don't be in a position of "I wish I saw that coming."  Once a divorce is in progress, the BPD will escalate the abuse.  Make no mistake.  

Protect yourself, your children and pets.

[AskingWhy]

My husband was married for many years to a uBPD/NPD woman whose primary behavior problems were constant and blatant infidelities and rages. He will say he stayed to provide a stable parent for the children -- also, he was a career military officer at a time the military was not accepting of accommodating to single parents. She finally moved out when the children left high school. By that time, H was depressed and had serious health issues related to stress.

GG, this seems to be like my uBPD H.  His X W was uNPD/BPD, he was a military man, and his W at the time cheated on his when he was overseas.  She divorced him as soon as he returned so she could marry her lover, and the three children were all in diapers.  When I marry my H, he used this opportunity to project his rage over his X W (and also rage at his uNPD F) at me.

Infidelity causes wounds of betrayal.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

Hahaha! Well, I guess I will be in good company with my emotional support kitties then.  

Ran out of time so I couldn't get the lab part done. I'll have to drive an hour back, so that sucks. BUT the doc and her assistant were wonderful.

The kids' therapist won't work out. I specifically mentioned BPD and behavioral when I called. The woman was very much older, didn't have much experience with that, and her very first question:

What is your education level?

I'm not normally an expletive wielding type of person, but man, oh man.

No, I didn't finish college. But I did start an award-winning website, appeared as a regular on a state-wide TV show, and wrote an award-winning book. So, N-YAH!

Anyway. I sat there and told her my story even though I knew from the start she wasn't going to work. No masks in her office. She kept asking irrelevant questions to the situation, "Your husband sounds like he hates women." OMG except he also slept with couples and a man so...

"What if you told your husband..."

He has a behavioral disorder. I can't TELL him things. He won't hear it. It doesn't work like that. Actually, that would probably end up with him in a rage.

Office admin was all, "$50 cash or check." What? I didn't know that or I wouldn't have kept the appointment because I don't use either of those things and my bank isn't local! Admin told me she had it written down that she told me. Fine. Whatever. I think I have a check left somewhere so I'll send that, because I'm not going there again.

Sigh. Trying not to feel defeated but ugh. I really wanted the kids to have someone to talk to ready to go. Now I'll have to vet another and wait to get in. Not sure why insurance had me pay like that.

Anyway. I did start Bill Eddy. I'll take a bath tonight again and take the phone in with me. eBooks are the safest way to read now. Funny, I normally really don't like them. Desperate times, though.

(meant to post yesterday and forgot to hit "post." LOL

[I Am Redeemed]

It's better to keep looking for a therapist that you feel "gets it" and can actually be helpful than to keep going to one that you don't get good vibes from, though I know it's frustrating.

She kept asking irrelevant questions to the situation, "Your husband sounds like he hates women." OMG except he also slept with couples and a man so...

I think she probably could have phrased this differently, but to be honest, I get the same impression from your h's behavior. Perhaps that is due to my own experience with a man who was very violent and disordered (many traits of BPD, NPD, and ASPD, much like Cat's ex) and who had very unhealthy sexual behaviors.

The couples and the other man could have been experimental and tied to his lack of self-identity. Pwbpd have a fragmented self and sometimes switch careers, hobbies, interests, musical tastes, fashion styles, and even sexual preferences/partners because they don't really know who they are at their core.

But I keep coming back to his pursuit of his desire to have a partner who he can "treat like an object". Does he want to treat a man this way, or another couple? or is it a female that he wants to treat this way (and feels entitled to treat this way? That is one reason I tend to think that comment from the therapist may be more relevant than you think (not that that alone makes her the right T for your kids. If she doesn't understand communication with a PD then she probably won't be much help).

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. It was the way she was saying things. She said she had little experience with BPD. From meeting with her, I gathered that experience was likely = 0. The things she was saying that I should say to him would have resulted in Rage City! She was a grandma type. Floral sofa and everything.

She asked why I stayed. Well, jeez, lady. It wasn't all bad all the time! As everyone with a BPD spouse knows!  But the bad times were SO BAD. But then...the good times were so good! I know you guys all get it.

Even this relationship was made up of 1000 little worthwhile things. Wine on the porch or deck, planning vacations, talking about the future, laughing in bed before sleeping, all the family stories...

He used everyone. He said it "was like being drunk, but I wasn't drunk. I don't really remember."

Plus, he has trouble remembering people's faces.

He said he wanted to be able to lose control with someone who didn't matter and that he "respected" me too much to act like that with me, that he didn't want to hurt me. He has plenty of times in the past, like he forgot I was there too! It makes sense now.

I called the shelter today. I'll get connected with a therapist to help with the abuse part of things, free. Then I'm speaking with their legal counsel as well. I need to know what my rights are and what I should be doing since I haven't lived in this state more than five weeks yet!

God, I miss my old house and town so much. I wish I hadn't moved.

I do agree that those were all experiments. He was ashamed of the man portion of things.

He has bounced around in careers and hobbies plenty. He's currently way into 3D printing. His music changes too. He'll put mine down when it was stuff he didn't mind before.

He even put down The Office a couple months ago when the oldest had it on, told me it "didn't age well." Now who goes and sits with the 15 year old and watches, laughing?

It's like he doesn't have me to mirror so he's using the kid? I don't know.

He's struggled plenty with not knowing who he is. He loves to scream at me about how I just want him to be something he's not, the perfect husband with 2.5 kids and picket fence but that's not who he is.

I never know what to say to that.

I am concerned about how to handle this weekend. Keeping my distance without being too distant. He's mellowing a bit right now, called me "hon" last night. I will have to navigate how to avoid sitting in a car with him. I don't want to go anywhere with him, even if he takes the kids.

I did mention the 2k check. I said since it was unexpected, that the kids need stuff (which is no lie haha) but also so i can prep for later. I said it likely cleared by now. He said to let him know how much.

So, I have him thinking I'm back to not looking at the financial stuff again.

AND I got him avocados at the store so he'll think I'm ticked but that I do love him. That I'll get over it.

Small wins.

Talked to the shelter and the woman said to focus on one thing at a time. She said trying to look at the big picture is too much right now.

It makes sense and it so simple, yet makes me feel ridiculously better.

So, this weekend it will be to try to find a remote writing job. I can't make calls, etc. since he'll be here.

Monday, it's PO Box.

[Cat Familiar]

When I began my divorce process, I got my own PO Box. It felt empowering to have something that wasn't connected to him.

[AskingWhy]

TrulyMadly, I am very pleased to see you empowering yourself and reading Bill Eddy.  Speaking to a lawyer and investigating shelters are a step in the right direction.  BTW, Bill Eddy does phone consults for clients he does not represent as "information consults."   You can find this information on his Web site.  It's not cheap (he charges lawyer's rates because he is a lawyer) but may be something to consider after you read his book.   

I am still with my uBPD H at this point of 20 years of marriage.  I am still ready to divorce at any time now. H might split and decide he wants to live with his younger uNPD D (a married mother of young children), or I might say "enough" and decide to file. Either way, I feel that I can survice what comes.  I have a cell phone that H does not know of in case I need to speak privately. Our phones are on a joint account, so H can see all the calls I make.  I got this phone when ended up calling a DV hotline in tears when H punched holes in the dry wall and raged, screaming names at me and threatening divorce.  Again, things are a bit better now that his children are all grown (sort of, as he is still enmeshed) and he's on hormone treatment.

My H's job history is stable, and he is a retired military careerist.  He is responsible in that respect, but his ego and self perfection are as brittle as any one with BPD. 

The issue you describe with not remembering faces seems to be a manifestation of dissociation that occurs in BPD.  This is when they split.  BPDs really don't have a grasp of reality from one minute to the next, which is why they can truly love you one minute and hate you the next.  It does not make sense, but it's their reality.  It must be terrifying for them, but I am not now in a place to give sympathy for a man (my H) who abused me and robbed me of a happy marriage for more than 15 years.  He put his children ahead of my in the marriage and as they grew, they became entitled and abused me while emotionally blackmailing him.   In my eyes, the man who should have been my champion turned out to be a shrinking cow ard.  It was heartbreaking and angering. 

Part of healing and moving on is allowing yourself to be angry.  Many people say forgiveness is moving on, but we all have to choose the right path for ourselves.  I chose anger., or should I say indignat ion  I am no longer extending to his adult children nor forthcoming with information that can help them for all the abuse they heaped on me since their childhood.  When I see them, I am amiable and welcoming, but I don't offer myself like I once foolishly did (I am in the health field.)  Owning anger is a part of moving on.

If you doubt this, read Lundy Bancroft's, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?: A Guide to Knowing if Your Relationship Can--and Should--be Saved?"  Bancroft is a DV expert and this is his companion book to the one on DV.    You can also buy this book in digital format.  He discusses the awakening to the abuse and the anger that results from it.   As you are already looking into lawyers, this book may not be for you.

As for a counselor, I agree with Redeemed that you must find one who understands BPD, or you will be looking like the crazy one.  Kindly "grandma" type counselors want people to kiss and make up, share a cookie and make it all better.  This won't likely work for you. Feel each counselor out and you will find your fit at some point.  Don't stick with the first one, and look until you are satisfied that he or she will give you 100% empathy and not blame you for your H's actions.  Years ago, my uBPD H and I went to couples counseling.  Bad idea.  In the office, I was crying, describing how my H would rage at me, throw things, call me names and terrify me.  I then shouted at my H asking how he could do those things to me.  The counselor stood up from her chair, pointed a finger at me and bellowed, "You do not shout at him in this office!  Do you hear me? You get angry like that and you are going to lose the man who loves you!"  You can't make this stuff up.

On Monday, as you get your own PO box, think of this as the concrete beginning of a new start. 

If you have not already, take the MOSAIC DV inventory.  It's free and confidential, and might help you with some insights. 

https://www.mosaicmethod.com/

Be well and be safe.   



 

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

Omg i didn't think about phone records.  We use Credo for cellphones. Do they send itemized statements like that? Does anyone know?

Went for walk with 11 yr old. He said he can't wait until things are back to normal. 

That just kills me inside.  They won't ever be Normal again.

H went upstairs to bed at 905, after he spent an hour and a half in the garage (saw him texting) and then inside on his phone supposedly trying to figure out how to get the drone to work.

I thought I heard his voice when I went up to tuck in the youngest. He's been in bed at 930 lately.  I don't know.

My cat followed me up all excited about bed...and then followed me back down to the sofa. I'm just lonely. 

He came home from work and said I probably wasn't going to like this but gave me a hug.

I was so shocked.i didn't know what to do.  I'm trying to keep my distance but keep him in the current phase.

What should I have done or said?

Right now it all feels too big and hopeless and hurts. Pretending I'm okay with the kids is so hard. Like I said, I'm an awful liar
 They know I'm not always okay.

I just think about stupid things like how I probably wont ever be able to get my hair done after I leave or that I'll end up in some tiny dump of a place and the kids will just lose their spark.

I hate I'm the only one grieving

[legalboxers]

@TrulyMadlyDeeply: I am sorry what you went through, no one deserves that. Cats do rock..
by the way..Savage Garden fan?

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

He spent 100 at a bar not even two weeks after he moved out here
 The day we closed on our house, he spent 70 at bareminerals website.  He told me he was going to get me a housewarming present but ran out of time.

It all just hurts.

Hes getting upset at my lack of attention.  Wamts to know if we are coparenting or done or what. This is so hard
 I don't know how to find a non triggering middle ground. 

He spent 45 at a liquor store on his way home but came in empty handed. Is he hiding drinking now?

I'm avoiding alcohol in the emotional state im in
 Need to keep my wits about me.

I can't believe all the times he went to bars when he was out here. He put the kids and my health at risk.

There is $1000 left from the several thousand we had. Hes blown through it all, while talking about investing and paying things off.

How am I going to keep staying here for months and months and months.

No light today.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

He spent most of the day in the garage again. I took a bath, got out, heard the TV on, and was surprised to see the kids were still in the playroom.

Earlier in the evening, he said multiple times about going to Best Buy and getting a mesh network. I had written quite a bit about them in the past, but I was not going to get stuck researching what one is best, etc. right then. I don't plan on being here for long!

He said about getting two, one for playroom, one for garage. I said maybe just one for now, when oldest son piped up about how bad internet in playroom is and makes music hard to play. UGH! Way to go, kid. I had to work hard at not being ticked at the kid for saying anything. He doesn't know we won't be staying here. And it's something he probably views as pretty important, even if he knows I don't want him to encourage H to spend money right now.

So, hubs gets back after an hour and a half. He bought two Google Nests, the things I had said before I did not want, that we discussed awhile back.

I looked at the account last night. He spent $288 bucks on them at Target! He kept saying Best Buy. Why all the constant lies?

This morning, when I headed up to shower, I smelled pot in the hall. He works around the stuff, but not with it, so his clothes usually smell. But his clothes are at the other end of the three-bedroom master suite. It's never smelled in the hall before.

Last night at 905 or so, he told kids goodnight, that he was going to go workout, and go to bed.

Is he drinking and smoking pot now? Is that why he suddenly left to get a mesh network, to meet up for that? I do have a strong sense of smell.

He always thought it was dumb before...but he flunked out of college the first go-round partly because of it. When he cheated March 2019, he did eat a pot gummy with the woman. Same night he spent 100 at one bar, 27 or so at another.

I just had no idea.

He's been so against all of it, that whole pot culture. He is such a good liar. I just don't know.

I just miss my old life. My old house, my old state, my old neighbors. The kids' schools. I want to go home and I don't think that will ever be possible. I can't afford a trip back like that with a UHaul big enough for us and that I'd be okay driving. I'm just stuck here now.

When heading to my STD test appt (no time to finish lab portion), I was weirdly drawn to the town. It just felt like home. Goofy. But I did even see a sign about tennis, which both boys love. I don't know.

Four cats. Two kids. Legos that take up an entire room. How will I ever afford a place to hold us? Where the kids won't be miserable and the cats won't fight due to lack of room?

It all feels so hopeless right now. I just need to remember to focus on one thing at a time. But it's so hard sometimes.

It doesn't help that my mother told me yesterday that  she had just been thinking, a week or so before i told her everything, that it seems like I found my soul mate, and how we always do things as a family, and we have the house, and his job...

Not helpful.