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snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
on:
January 20, 2019, 09:16:19 AM »
Hello All,
I’m sorry I haven’t updated earlier. I find it difficult, almost like undergoing root canal, to recap our behaviours, once the dust been settled.
Last Tuesday I was still sleeping separately, not engaging, keeping conversations to a minimum, he was civil. Since he got rid of the expensive car, we have been carpooling. On our ride to work, I was looking straightforward, kind of ignoring him, lost in my thoughts of self loathing. I didn’t want to engage. Halfway through he turned and very calmly said” let’s divorce, I can’t live like this. I loathe moments that I spend with you, I would rather be anywhere then in your presence. It’s hard for me, as I care about you, you are mother of my children, but you changed so much. You used to have a way with me, of making me feel better, have your love for me show. Now you don’t, I deserve to be happy, and it isn’t with you”.
I burst into tears, as it came hard crushing down on me, even though I somewhat expected it. I smoked two cigarettes back to back, even though I don’t smoke at all, they were his left overs. I tried to tell him that I didn’t want the divorce, and was very sorry he felt the way he did. That I saw potential in us. He counter explained that he gave up on us, and that he once thought how he would act if I came around, and now he doesn’t. I wasn’t able to drive from there, so I asked him to bring me back home. I also said that I wanted to work towards rebuilding “us” and if he was on-board. He replied: “ I am, but I’m not giving promise or guarantee, as I won’t do anything, it’s your job now to fix it” (should have seen this red flag) instead, I got so violently sick, from a horse size nicotine injection that I spent next 4 hrs bedridden. I called him at work to help me with school dismissal, he came home and helped me. We started talking, he kept on saying “don’t take divorce off as the best option out for both of us”. I kept on trying to convince him to try and work things out. The following day he had a mirriad of things to do, aka his personal assistant, I tried to keep it friendly, sexy even. We were intimate several times thereafter. He wasn’t bring up the third person. He also went on a strict diet, which I somewhat joined to keep things in common.
As the crypto currency continued to flactuate, so does he mood. He wakes up pissed, the first thing he looks for is the confirmation that the world, the country, everything around us is coming to an end. He also picked up the tune “ I’m selling this house in May/April. If I don’t find anything I like, we rent”. The problem with this is that the house is the only investment/commodity that was reliable and consistent over the years. The reason why we survived and he didn’t gamble Away the kids future. I won’t go into rent. In fact, our mortgage now is less then rental of a one bedroom apartment. He was “a castle” to feel better, short term it might. As all of our friends will be amused and his ego will be rubbed. Then the reality With the bills will settle in, he will have to pay much more for property tax, maintainance and other house related bills. I know we can’t afford it with the current situation. He is correct about the market bubble where we live, but it’s only applicable to those who do business on real estate. For us, the matrimonial home, prices go up or down, it’s irrelevant, as we paid 1/3 for it. If we were to sell, I’m certain he would not find what he likes, he doesn’t compromise, and I will be forced to move into rental, while he invests money into his failing businesses. I hate this. So this morning while he bagan to accuse me of sabotaging his life by not letting him sell earlier, how as a soldier he already weathered several blows, that he had lost his legs (figuretevly speaking, his arm, and if I don’t comply this last blow will kill him aka our relationships). I’m disgusted. This grown ass man, who has no control over his businesses, industries, feelings is trying to manipulate and control me, the only person he can. I’m fine with selling and perhaps upgrading, or at least substituting. Conditional buy and sell is the only option for us. We find what we like, we put an offer. We try to sell. If it works, we both win, if it doesn’t, I tried. He started threatening me, saying that we are playing for different teams. I don’t want to live in chaos. Perhaps I should not have engaged and just postpone the conversation. The only times we can reason and compromise is when he is high
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
formflier
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #1 on:
January 20, 2019, 09:53:06 AM »
No response is necessary to his speeches about what he will do. Make sure he doesn't have power of attorney for you.
Then don't give your signature or consent to sell.
Keep it simple.
Do you see how he "hooked" you with divorce talk? Do you see how he "got something" out of it?
FF
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Notwendy
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #2 on:
January 20, 2019, 12:29:10 PM »
I think you want your H to change his behavior, but can you see how you are rewarding it?
You have been cool and distant, sleeping in the other room. He may feel the difference, but he knows how to get your attention by saying he wants a divorce, or some other threat like that. You react- as predicted, by getting upset, explaining your position and acting sexy and boom- you two are in the bedroom.
Lets take this example to something else. Your child has been asking for cookies before dinner and you have been letting him eat cookies for dinner. You decide you don't want to do this. You want him to learn to stop asking for cookies.
He wants cookies, so he says "Mommy give me a cookie or I won't like you". You say, "oh honey I love you, please know that mommy loves you. Let's have some cookies".
The next day he says " Mommy, give me a cookie or I won't like you". You really want him to stop. This hurts your feelings. You don't want to have him speak to you like that, so you think " If I give him cookies, he will be happy and like me". Here honey, eat all the cookies you want and here is some chocolate too, and what else do you want, because Mommy loves you".
The next day he says " I hate you Mommy! I'm tired of your cookies. I get the same old cookies every day. I'm bored with your cookies .Buy me a new toy or I won't like you.
"Oh honey, Mommy loves you. Here is some cake and ice cream and a new toy. I just want you to love me.
What do you think he's going to say the next day?
Your H knows how to get attention from you. He says the D word and you react by rewarding it. I know you want it to stop, but if there is any chance of it stopping, you have to be mindful not to reward it.
I don't know if he wants a divorce, but rewarding his divorce threats with attention and a hop in the sack is rewarding it. If he does want a divorce, he will do it. However, he can not just do it- he has to take steps, see a lawyer, you will be involved. If you don't want a divorce, then you don't have to help him get one or go along with him if he takes legal action. Let him do the work. But as long as you respond to his threats by reinforcing them, then he will keep on doing that.
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formflier
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #3 on:
January 20, 2019, 01:15:41 PM »
Quote from: Notwendy on January 20, 2019, 12:29:10 PM
Your H knows how to get attention from you. He says the D word and you react by rewarding it. I know you want it to stop, but if there is any chance of it stopping,
you have to be mindful not to reward it.
This part can get better. Divorce threats used to be routine in my relationship.
You guys may remember better than me... .but I think the last "implied" divorce threat for me was over the summer... .some sort of money dispute so she implied that if I want to "count" money... .let's just divorce instead.
It was via text... .so I did not respond in anyway. I think it took a day or so before she texted about something else... .and I responded to that.
I didn't chase her... .remind her... .try to convince her of anything. The divorce threat (implication) got no reaction.
Now... on the the "mindful" part... Very hard when you two are trapped in a car together.
What do you think you could have done to diffuse the situation? Something that doesn't quite ignore it... .yet doesn't add any fuel to the fire.
FF
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Notwendy
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #4 on:
January 20, 2019, 05:40:23 PM »
Maybe it would help us help you if you told us what you need from us. I’m assuming you want to see the divorce threats diminish but we can’t act on your H. We can only advise you to not reinforce them. Yet this pattern is persisting between you two.
I know you don’t want a divorce. We aren’t advising you to do anything that would cause him to do that if he doesn’t want to divorce you. . But if he really wants to do that - then nobody can act on him to make him change his mind.
So far - all you have seen is threats though. There is a comfort to both of you in this pattern. If he feels an uncomfortable distance from you - he just has to say the D word to be reassured and comforted. When you do this you also feel assured in the moment - if he’s sleeping with you then you have hope. To do something different may change this pattern of threatening you- but change is scary. It’s unknown. This is familiar and somewhat predictable.
You may not like this but it may feel better to you than to change it. What would help you the most for us ?
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Cat Familiar
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #5 on:
January 21, 2019, 11:17:20 AM »
Hey Snowglobe,
How are you doing today? We're thinking of you.
Cat
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“The Four Agreements 1. Be impeccable with your word. 2. Don’t take anything personally. 3. Don’t make assumptions. 4. Always do your best. ” ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #6 on:
January 21, 2019, 04:42:59 PM »
Quote from: formflier on January 20, 2019, 09:53:06 AM
No response is necessary to his speeches about what he will do. Make sure he doesn't have power of attorney for you.
Then don't give your signature or consent to sell.
Keep it simple.
Do you see how he "hooked" you with divorce talk? Do you see how he "got something" out of it?
FF
So what do I do when I’m down in bed drifting off to sleep, and he starts the shpeel, “I hate this house, I can’t wait to sell it, if you don’t sell it, I’m moving out, understand. Confirm affirmatively that you understand!”
He doesn’t have the power of attorney over me, I am not willing to sell, unless it is to improve our conditions. He already lost a lot of money, impulsively.
Please clearify about keeping it simple. Be as detailed as you can’t. I am missing some vital skills and knowledge, regarding interpersonal skills. When you are being descriptive, it helps me to rehearse a healthier alternative.
I stumbled on my own triggers which I could not resist. I got my “hit”, if you can compare this with addiction. I was clean for longer then I can remember, emotionally. However, him knowing all of my weak points. I automatically slipped into saving relationships mode, while torturing me emotionally.
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #7 on:
January 21, 2019, 04:50:52 PM »
Quote from: Enabler on January 15, 2019, 11:11:16 AM
and he’s going to have to maintain that personality for longer than a few hours after a bad day at work if he’s going to achieve a divorce.
I don’t know about the business opportunity abroad, I don’t know the facts. If he said it when dusregilated it could well be complete nonsense, maybe even a threat to get you to behave as he wants you to. By the sounds of things you externally stayed kinda okay, got your sh!t together and slept on it. See if the subject is raised again and also whether it is raised when he is calm... .my W threatens a lot of stuff on a range of different topics such as pushing the divorce forwards, selling a large car and buying a small one, buying things,, doing stuff... .things she knows would hurt me... .why? Because she wants me to feel rubbish and get me to react, I don’t know, I think it’s her way of transferring her pain on to me. Typically it works in a karpman kind of way... .she says something outrageous and provocative, I react and attempt to correct the narrative (likely involving me telling her she is wrong, out of order on downright crackers), she then immediately flips, becomes passive and acts as though she is mortally wounded. Now I just say “okay, it’s up to you”. Things rarely get mentioned again. It maybe an idea, a thing that she believes will improve her happiness, it could be a ploy to get into victim mode, maybe because she knows she is going to do something immoral and wants some justification for it... .I don’t know, but I don’t play the game anymore.
If it’s mentioned multiple times, it’s generally serious, if there’s consistent action, she’s serious.
Enabler
Why do you mean by; he will have to maintain personality much longer if he were to achieve the divorce?
I can totally relate to the provocation. First, he speaks about some nonsense; threesome, sellling the house, moving to another country, divorcing, having four d15 quit professional career, pulling her out of private tutoring, not contributing to her career, finding me a substitute, punishing me, selling my car, quitting his job.
If I react, he usually tries to do it, just so I can react and try and stop him. He then amped up his verbal abuse, eventually leading to physical, you all remember the tooth paste, him hitting me in the car for bad driving, kicking me in the chest, smacking me on the head. Once I retaliate, it gives him a permission to act as if I attached him, complete gas lightening. I was able to navigate around this pattern since my eye injury.
Side note, or more of a question: how do yo I continue living with your wife? How do you make love to her? How do you make plans, both long term and short term? How do you share, with the person who takes an active steps to divorce you?
I’m hanging on to my marriage by bloody fingernails
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #8 on:
January 21, 2019, 04:56:25 PM »
Quote from: Notwendy on January 20, 2019, 12:29:10 PM
I think you want your H to change his behavior, but can you see how you are rewarding it?
You have been cool and distant, sleeping in the other room. He may feel the difference, but he knows how to get your attention by saying he wants a divorce, or some other threat like that. You react- as predicted, by getting upset, explaining your position and acting sexy and boom- you two are in the bedroom.
Lets take this example to something else. Your child has been asking for cookies before dinner and you have been letting him eat cookies for dinner. You decide you don't want to do this. You want him to learn to stop asking for cookies.
He wants cookies, so he says "Mommy give me a cookie or I won't like you". You say, "oh honey I love you, please know that mommy loves you. Let's have some cookies".
The next day he says " Mommy, give me a cookie or I won't like you". You really want him to stop. This hurts your feelings. You don't want to have him speak to you like that, so you think " If I give him cookies, he will be happy and like me". Here honey, eat all the cookies you want and here is some chocolate too, and what else do you want, because Mommy loves you".
The next day he says " I hate you Mommy! I'm tired of your cookies. I get the same old cookies every day. I'm bored with your cookies .Buy me a new toy or I won't like you.
"Oh honey, Mommy loves you. Here is some cake and ice cream and a new toy. I just want you to love me.
What do you think he's going to say the next day?
Your H knows how to get attention from you. He says the D word and you react by rewarding it. I know you want it to stop, but if there is any chance of it stopping, you have to be mindful not to reward it.
I don't know if he wants a divorce, but rewarding his divorce threats with attention and a hop in the sack is rewarding it. If he does want a divorce, he will do it. However, he can not just do it- he has to take steps, see a lawyer, you will be involved. If you don't want a divorce, then you don't have to help him get one or go along with him if he takes legal action. Let him do the work. But as long as you respond to his threats by reinforcing them, then he will keep on doing that.
Wendy,
I swear I did my best upon my return back home. I was careful to wait and let him self soothe and not reinforce bad behaviour. Things such as swearing and cussing actually stopped, while I was keeping my distance. I can’t even cognitively explain how this highjacking occurred. The fear of loosing him was intolerable. I want to keep our family, but he isn’t making any steps towards making things better. In fact, he is increasing the pressure with the threat of the impending sale. I know what the next step will be- if I don’t comply, he will cut me off financially, leaving me no choice but to react in legal actions. Thus, he will still force my hand, it won’t be him, doing the heavy lifting.
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #9 on:
January 21, 2019, 05:13:00 PM »
Quote from: Notwendy on January 20, 2019, 05:40:23 PM
Maybe it would help us help you if you told us what you need from us. I’m assuming you want to see the divorce threats diminish but we can’t act on your H. We can only advise you to not reinforce them. Yet this pattern is persisting between you two.
I know you don’t want a divorce. We aren’t advising you to do anything that would cause him to do that if he doesn’t want to divorce you. . But if he really wants to do that - then nobody can act on him to make him change his mind.
So far - all you have seen is threats though. There is a comfort to both of you in this pattern. If he feels an uncomfortable distance from you - he just has to say the D word to be reassured and comforted. When you do this you also feel assured in the moment - if he’s sleeping with you then you have hope. To do something different may change this pattern of threatening you- but change is scary. It’s unknown. This is familiar and somewhat predictable.
You may not like this but it may feel better to you than to change it. What would help you the most for us ?
Dear Wendy,
I need someone to talk to, to be honest with, to have someone reflect my fears back to me. Ever since we came back, he is withholding financial support from me, so I’m waiting to have a session with my therapist. I’m work in progress, I want to get healthy, I want to be well, if I continue speaking to you guys, at some point I will rehearse enough not to fall into the same trap. Also, when you remind me of the previous flare ups, which my memories shuts off to self preserve, I can have a better plan of actions.
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
formflier
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #10 on:
January 21, 2019, 06:15:02 PM »
Quote from: Snowglobe on January 21, 2019, 04:42:59 PM
So what do I do when I’m down in bed drifting off to sleep, and he starts the shpeel, “I hate this house, I can’t wait to sell it, if you don’t sell it, I’m moving out, understand. Confirm affirmatively that you understand!”
He doesn’t have the power of attorney over me, I am not willing to sell, unless it is to improve our conditions. He already lost a lot of money, impulsively.
Please clearify about keeping it simple. Be as detailed as you can’t. I am missing some vital skills and knowledge, regarding interpersonal skills. When you are being descriptive, it helps me to rehearse a healthier alternative.
I stumbled on my own triggers which I could not resist. I got my “hit”, if you can compare this with addiction. I was clean for longer then I can remember, emotionally. However, him knowing all of my weak points. I automatically slipped into saving relationships mode, while torturing me emotionally.
"I won't discuss such matters at this late hour. I'll be available to talk tomorrow when we can both think clearly."
Don't say anything else... seriously.
If he continues. Go to another room, lock the door and go to sleep. Use ear muffs if needed.
Should he pursue or block you... .call 911.
Just don't... .what good comes from YOU deciding to talk? Let him talk if you want... .he can't force you. Should he try... call 911.
FF
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formflier
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #11 on:
January 21, 2019, 06:17:55 PM »
Quote from: Snowglobe on January 21, 2019, 04:50:52 PM
I’m hanging on to my marriage by bloody fingernails
Exactly... that is what it appears he wants.
Seriously.
You "letting go" of your marriage is not the same as seeking divorce. Frankly, I don't think he wants a divorce or will seek one.
This is a manipulation tactic that WORKS for him. If he wanted a divorce... he would have one already.
Next time he does "nonsense"... .DON'T HANG ON!
What would that look like for you?
FF
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snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #12 on:
January 21, 2019, 07:20:35 PM »
Quote from: formflier on January 21, 2019, 06:17:55 PM
Exactly... that is what it appears he wants.
Seriously.
You "letting go" of your marriage is not the same as seeking divorce. Frankly, I don't think he wants a divorce or will seek one.
This is a manipulation tactic that WORKS for him. If he wanted a divorce... he would have one already.
Next time he does "nonsense"... .DON'T HANG ON!
What would that look like for you?
FF
I’m dreaming of the financial freedom, that will enable me not to fear if my children will eat tomorrow. The nonsense part is tightly enmeshed with threats and actual reality. It’s a burdensome and overwhelming task to separate the two. He is either an overwhelming rich millionaire, or broke person, who owes more then he produces. There isn’t a middle ground. He convinced himself, as well as others at times, myself including. In either case, his reality has nothing to do with the common sense. If he is millionaire, it’s paper rich. When I hold off from making vast purchases, such as with him “surprising me “ with one of the most prestigious cars in the world (you know how that ended) or upgrading our current home to a mansion, he tell me “you demasculane me, you cut off my testicles and will to produce”. Or when he says we are so broke ( I know he has the money) that we can’t afford he necessities, I call him on his bluff “we have xyz amount on your account” he flies into rage, telling me to mind my business.
I have an option of getting into grad school after I complete my degree in June. I always dreamt of this, not materialistic things. I want to help people like me, uBPDh, my son, to get better. I can potentially earn sufficient income to support both of my kids on my own. I will have to put this deal on hold, as gaining an employment will enable me to stop reacting to “nonsense/emotional and financial abuse”. I need to make it to June. I will start applications early April, hopefully finding something in the field. I don’t want a dead end job. I hope to build a career.
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #13 on:
January 21, 2019, 07:40:00 PM »
Please slow down... .deal with things a step at a time... .one thing at a time.
Don't hold off on resisting bellicose threats because your kids might not eat tomorrow... .or 3 years from now.
Breathe deep... .you know there is money for people to eat. Right? Please don't create scenarios where there "might not be"... . that would require him to actually "do" outrageous things... vice threaten them.
Slow down... .solve todays problem today.
FF
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #14 on:
January 22, 2019, 03:09:28 AM »
Quote from: Snowglobe on January 21, 2019, 04:50:52 PM
Why do you mean by; he will have to maintain personality much longer if he were to achieve the divorce?
... .
Side note, or more of a question: how do yo I continue living with your wife? How do you make love to her? How do you make plans, both long term and short term? How do you share, with the person who takes an active steps to divorce you?
I’m hanging on to my marriage by bloody fingernails
Firstly, it takes a lot of sustained effort and emotional consistency to achieve a divorce. By all means in the heat of the moment he can go to a lawyer and the lawyer takes over the whole process and deals with the divorce in an emotion free manner... .but there will be points where he would have to get involved and these are tough... .it takes a long time. e.g. telling kids, splitting up money, signing divorce documents. At each point he has to REALLY want this divorce. In my W's case I think she thought that she could blurt out that she wanted a divorce and I'd somehow scurry off and get it for her... .much the same as everything else in her life. But this didn't happen and I have chosen not to deliver her a perfectly wrapped "If you love her set her free" divorce as she decreed and instead worked out for myself what I want and more to the point what I don't want and what I don't think is in line with my values. The consequence of her choices is that SHE has to chew through the emotional sludge that comes with HER choices whilst I have got myself to a point of acceptance that I cannot make choices for her, and will thrive regardless of her choices. Yes I would like for her to choose to reconcile, but it requires 2 people to want this and at the moment she doesn't want to. She has constructed a fantasy world around her choices such that in her mind she 'has no choice' therefore abandoning the need to take responsibility for her actions... .a guilt free divorce. I don't push guilt on her but when she drops it on my doorstep like a pile of dung I scoop it up and plonk it back where it's supposed to be.
Living with my wife is tough... .I don't make plans long or short, I am standing still in many respects and in other respects I am just strolling along doing my own thing. I don't make huge unilateral decisions or anything that could be deemed as controlling, I am respecting her choice to get divorced and with those choices certain things don't happen. She's complaining about the internet connection, we have normal broadband and not fibre... .why? Because signing up to fibre means signing up to a 1 year contract and that's not in line with her choices. I have not had any intimacy with my W for 2.5 years, she is almost constantly angry at me and at my presence in the home, but that's part of my choice to stand for my marriage.
When the emotional blast waves come I turn, brace and stand strong with my shield of knowledge and personal understanding protecting my heart, my mind and my kids... .when they cease I continue about my way focusing my efforts on areas I can have a positive effect... .my kids and me. Contempt would be so easy to achieve and something I have to actively try and avoid... .which is tough because frankly there's a lot to be contemptuous about.
This is the hard route and requires going against everything secular culture suggests.
Enabler
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babyducks
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #15 on:
January 22, 2019, 04:40:13 AM »
Snowglobe,
How many times has your husband said he wants a divorce? Seriously? 10 times? 20 times? 50 times? 100 times? More than that?
How many times has he made an appointment with a lawyer? How many times has he gone and spoken to a lawyer? How many times has he started the paperwork? Have you ever been served? How many times has he started to actually take steps to end the relationship? Move out? Buy his own set of furniture so he can sleep separately? Zero times? One time and then he came back? What has he actually
DONE
to get a divorce?
Is this really about a divorce ? Or is this more about abuse until you do what he wants?
Quote from: Snowglobe on January 21, 2019, 04:56:25 PM
Things such as swearing and cussing actually stopped, while I was keeping my distance.
Here is your answer. When you don't get sucked into his fallacies and fantasies things are calmer. When you get triggered into an emotional response more gas is poured on his fire. Can you respond with your wise mind?
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What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us.
Notwendy
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 11348
PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #16 on:
January 22, 2019, 05:42:34 AM »
I'm glad we are able to be of help to you- and also that our discussions are helpful reminders. I do think that when you react to your H, you go on "automatic". I have done that myself. You've been doing this since you were 17 or even before that with your BPD mom. I know I was reacting automatically as I had done in my own FOO.
I think you have made progress in your awareness of the patterns between you and your H. One day, I hope, you will not be on automatic- you will find yourself remembering not to reinforce his threats. This doesn't mean reacting aggressively to him so that he escalates them. It means you can be calmer and aware as you go through your actions- keeping your thinking on, not off, and starting to make choices.
This takes practice and I think you are starting to be more conscious- and I hope you believe you will gain more ability to stay calm in these times.
I don't need to remind you that the coda group is no cost, and neither is a sponsor. We are here too, but adding this could help you with this process. I know you fear divorce and I don't think it's OK to tell someone to get a divorce. That is their own choice to make. I haven't heard this said in a 12 step group. If someone were to say this to you, you don't have to agree to it. The group can also help you focus on you, your patterns and help you stay aware of them. I understand the idea of change is scary- for any change to happen you need to be doing it- and changing patterns is slow by nature. You remain in control of any personal changes from attending these groups. Adding this to your T and posting here can be helpful.
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formflier
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Relationship status: Married
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #17 on:
January 22, 2019, 06:25:24 AM »
Quote from: babyducks on January 22, 2019, 04:40:13 AM
Here is your answer. When you don't get sucked into his fallacies and fantasies things are calmer. When you get triggered into an emotional response more gas is poured on his fire. Can you respond with your wise mind?
And... .why is it that when I don't get sucked into my wife's fallacies that she (and my home) is calmer? Do you think my wife and your husband know each other and compare notes?
What do you think the chances are that they are on a BPD internet board and have the same online mentor?
What is the common thread that would lead them to respond in the same way to similar situations?
Seriously... .what is the common thread?
And... if there is a common thread... .is it likely that they will behave in a similar way going forward?
FF
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snowglobe
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #18 on:
January 22, 2019, 03:43:55 PM »
Quote from: formflier on January 22, 2019, 06:25:24 AM
And... .why is it that when I don't get sucked into my wife's fallacies that she (and my home) is calmer? Do you think my wife and your husband know each other and compare notes?
What do you think the chances are that they are on a BPD internet board and have the same online mentor?
What is the common thread that would lead them to respond in the same way to similar situations?
Seriously... .what is the common thread?
And... if there is a common thread... .is it likely that they will behave in a similar way going forward?
FF
Unlikely that they have compared notes, although similarities are striking. It’s a way of getting what they want through threatening to take away the very things that we hold dearest. I know the mantra: “ don’t negotiate with the terrorists”, I’ve lived in a war zone. I’d say that your wife and my uBPDh are emotional terrorists, and that the only way to deal with them is in a clan, rational manner by calculating and rationalizing. My uBPDh can’t rationalize when he is emotional. He managed to suck me into a triangle today without me realizing it. He is experiencing hard time in his company. He had to close doors on one of his data centres due to it no longer being profitable. His partner isn’t panicking, crying or putting up with unpdh’s hysterics show. UBPDh doesn’t want to be around his partner S he isn’t giving him the desired emotional feedback. This week unBPDh wanted to go back to the other city for a day to pick up some equipment. The partner is having his girlfriend visit him, she is leaving on Monday. The partner said “let’s go on Monday for 2-3 days”. UBPDh doesn’t want to be around partner due to above mentioned reasons. Instead, he said “I have very peculiar relationships with my wife, I’m not allowed to go anywhere without her. So I’m going with her to help me”. When I picked him up from work he went on rant how sad, upset he is about work, which I validated. He also mentioned how much he hates his partner and wants to get rid of him, which I ignored. He also stated as a matter of fact that he will need my help, which I don’t mind, we are one unit and it’s my job to help him. When I walked into my house, I got I call from the partner, accusing me of sabotaging their work commitments. That instead they should be going on Monday, and that how could I forgot him from leaving for several days?. I calmly said that I was going to help, as my husband had asked me, and will speak to uBPDh to figure things out.
When I walked on my uBPDh and asked him regarding the matter, he got upset, started yelling, telling me that he didn’t want to travel with his partner and basically told me that he used me as an excuse. He then sent his partner a message to never contact me again. Why all unnecessary drama? He threatened to leave the house should I ever speak to him again (is it jealousy, or anger for blowing the cover?)
I’m scratching my head, as on one hand, we do have an agreement not to do overnights without each other. On the other hand, he didn’t ask me, warned me, just used me as a boogie man.
I’m also conflicted about my feelings with regards to the partner. On one hand, this unnecessary drama is out of proportion, I’d like to maintain friendly relationship. I’m not his enemy, and I’d actually like what’s going on, so I can separate smoke from mirrors. On the other hand, my arrangements, family life isn’t his business.
3 options:
1. I leave things as they are, and try to explain to partner in person when I see him next
2. I send him a text? (Probably bad idea)
3. I don’t speak to partner again, which has more costs then benefits.
Advice?
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“Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
formflier
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Relationship status: Married
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PART 4: Holidays, vacation, surgery, BPD charades
«
Reply #19 on:
January 22, 2019, 04:22:49 PM »
Quote from: Snowglobe on January 22, 2019, 03:43:55 PM
“ don’t negotiate with the terrorists”
Should you do anything with terrorists?
Seriously... .
I think you understand the point about pwBPD collaborating. They say what they say and do what they do, in large part, because of the emotional instability... .THEIR emotional instability.
It has very very little to do with you.
So... .I wouldn't worry to much about what to text, say or do. Less is generally more. Unless you are sure you are doing something "healthy"... .go live your life and let him live his.
When he is being rational and nice... .have a relationship with him. When he is a "terrorist"... .you clearly understand what to do.
FF
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