Why does communication break down so fast? Is it me?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It seems like communication with my uBPDw is breaking down faster than ever lately. It’s usually over the most insignificant things too. If I’m not on the same page as her the first time she says something, then she gets frustrated and won’t offer any clarification, explanation, or will simply say “forget it.”
For example, this evening she was out and sent me a text asking for a favor. I replied “sure.” When the requested favor didn’t come through I sent another message saying “que pasa?” A little while later she sent me a vague message talking about someone that had been ill. So I asked who. When she got home she asked why I hadn’t done her the favor she asked. Then she started telling me about the person that was ill.
When I told her I didn’t get the message with the favor or know who she was talking about, all she could say was “well my phone said the message was delivered. I will just have to call Verizon tomorrow.”
I know this is such a small thing I shouldn’t get bothered by it, but it’s just so frustrating that if I’m questioning her understanding of something, or requesting clarification then she very quickly decides that it’s no longer worth her time to talk about it. Furthermore she will hold onto that position no matter how important the issue may be. Then if I try to talk about it after she’s stopped she feels like I’m fighting or picking at her. Which gets me even more frustrated.
It seems like if I’m not an ironclad, written in stone archive of everything she’s ever uttered to me then it’s obvious that I don’t love her.
I know my ADD, or my memory capabilities can get in the way sometimes. But I don’t think that I’m that bad at communicating or listening.

I guess I don’t understand how emotional disregulation ties in to this communication problem. I can understand and apply what I know about the mood swings. But when a simple conversation goes sideways so quickly it just leaves me baffled and confused, as if we’re speaking two different languages. Maybe there’s something else at play.
My T reassures me and lets me know that he can see how hard I work at everything from taking care of my family to trying to improve things between my wife and I. At least I can feel confident that I’m not screwing everything up like my wife insists.

[RestlessWanderer]

It seems like communication with my uBPDw is breaking down faster than ever lately. It’s usually over the most insignificant things too. If I’m not on the same page as her the first time she says something, then she gets frustrated and won’t offer any clarification, explanation, or will simply say “forget it.”
For example, this evening she was out and sent me a text asking for a favor. I replied “sure.” When the requested favor didn’t come through I sent another message saying “que pasa?” A little while later she sent me a vague message talking about someone that had been ill. So I asked who. When she got home she asked why I hadn’t done her the favor she asked. Then she started telling me about the person that was ill.
When I told her I didn’t get the message with the favor or know who she was talking about, all she could say was “well my phone said the message was delivered. I will just have to call Verizon tomorrow.”
I know this is such a small thing I shouldn’t get bothered by it, but it’s just so frustrating that if I’m questioning her understanding of something, or requesting clarification then she very quickly decides that it’s no longer worth her time to talk about it. Furthermore she will hold onto that position no matter how important the issue may be. Then if I try to talk about it after she’s stopped she feels like I’m fighting or picking at her. Which gets me even more frustrated.
It seems like if I’m not an ironclad, written in stone archive of everything she’s ever uttered to me then it’s obvious that I don’t love her.
I know my ADD, or my memory capabilities can get in the way sometimes. But I don’t think that I’m that bad at communicating or listening.

I guess I don’t understand how emotional disregulation ties in to this communication problem. I can understand and apply what I know about the mood swings. But when a simple conversation goes sideways so quickly it just leaves me baffled and confused, as if we’re speaking two different languages. Maybe there’s something else at play.
My T reassures me and lets me know that he can see how hard I work at everything from taking care of my family to trying to improve things between my wife and I. At least I can feel confident that I’m not screwing everything up like my wife insists.

[Babblingbrook]

So you’re not alone here. I cannot tell you how many times my BPD partner has become extremely irate over me not getting a text or misunderstanding it, then when I speak with him in person to follow up, he blows up because he thinks I don’t care about what he shared because I wasn’t listening. Then I am called names and accused of being unreliable.

I have also had him get mad at me if I ask for clarification or if I ask him to repeat something. He has done it to mutual friend as well, and I think it is a need to be heard but also emotions are more amped up so it turns a simple miscommunication or need for more info or context into “you aren’t listening, therefore you don’t get me or care, so why bother with you.”


So it’s not you. Communication is a two way street. Texts get jumbled or lost, so maybe a phone call would make things smoother between you and your wife. Maybe ask her to just call if she needs a favor so you don’t miss anything.

Of course, that’s what I would do to avoid future conflict. Texting is easier in many cases but it has caused so much undue drama for me, I would rather avoid it unless it is urgent, you know?

I also am glad you have a therapist who is reassuring. That helps. Mine is helping me re-evaluate my relationship and having me ask tough questions of myself. It’s a blessing to have mental health professionals who can give us a more balanced perspective, given that the BPD world can feel like a house of distorted mirrors.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

Thought I'd chime in.

My husband has long embarrassed me by telling everyone I never check my phone and he doesn't know why I even have it.

I have long told him if he needs something, if it's important, to CALL.

People usually understand when I reply. No one responds instantly. Except for me over the past year. Somehow, he's conditioned me to instantly check and respond...to the hundreds of texts he would send in a day. From work.

Didn't matter what I was doing, like NO EXCUSES EVER. Somehow I let it happen where I did insta-respond. As I work on getting out, I'm no longer doing that. It's so ingrained, it's hard.

In my case, it didn't matter what I did.

He never saw anything I did as ever taking care of him or caring for him. He still viewed and views me as manipulative and controlling when his dark side takes over or when he rages.

It's worth trying to mention calling when something is important, but my H will text and text and text. If he HAS to call, then he's MAD because I am not checking my phone.

It doesn't matter what the reason is, he will still be mad.

[Cat Familiar]

What all three of you have in common is that you care about what your partner thinks about you.

This sounds absurd, you might think. Of course I care about what my partner thinks about me.

That’s the trap.

Yes, it’s important for our partners to care about us as well as for them to feel understood and heard. But don’t we deserve the same courtesy?

As we’ve tried to adapt to unsettling BPD behaviors, we’ve gone on hyper alert. We’ve trained them to expect we will snap to attention any time they reach out to us. We’ve trained them that we will apologize if we somehow misheard or misunderstood them. We’ve trained them that every communication from them is of utmost importance.

Do you behave this way with anyone else? Did you behave this way in previous relationships?

How to get out of this pattern? It won’t be easy and it won’t be quick. The secret is feeling good about yourself when confronted for a so-called misdeed, such as not immediately responding to a text.

Instead of apology, how about just admitting your truth? “Yeah, I didn’t feel like replying then.” Then say no more. No excuses.

If your partner continues to berate you, politely excuse yourself from the conversation.

Rinse and repeat. Over and over and over.

Ultimately you will carve out space for yourself to be treated more respectfully. The initiative must come from you. It won’t be easy, but it’s doable.

[RestlessWanderer]

CF, I know what you’re referring to. And I can’t deny that I have fallen into that pattern.
But what I’m talking about is a little bit different, I think.
I’m talking about how we can no longer have conversations about anything, unless I offer only a POV that mirrors hers. It feels like no matter what I say she is going to get irritated. Sometimes it seems like she reacts that way even if I am agreeing with what she’s saying. These communication breakdowns leave me feeling like I’m regarded as less than, like I’m seen as if I can’t possibly contribute anything of value to the conversation, like anything I say is completely unfounded and without any facts whatsoever. She is extremely smart and well read. Lively intellectual conversations were a fundamental part of our relationship in the early days. So to now have any conversation derail so quickly is just hard to understand. I’m often left thinking “what just happened?”

[Cat Familiar]

So she gets irritated. What do you do when that happens?

These communication breakdowns leave me feeling like I’m regarded as less than, like I’m seen as if I can’t possibly contribute anything of value to the conversation, like anything I say is completely unfounded and without any facts whatsoever.

Can you see how she undermines your self esteem?

It seems you have an opportunity here to try different ways of responding. If she gets irritated no matter what you say, even if you agree with her, why not try something new?

How about being absolutely true to yourself, your own values?

[RestlessWanderer]

So she gets irritated. What do you do when that happens?

Can you see how she undermines your self esteem?

It seems you have an opportunity here to try different ways of responding. If she gets irritated no matter what you say, even if you agree with her, why not try something new?

How about being absolutely true to yourself, your own values?

When she gets starts to get irritated I usually will just stop talking. There doesn’t seem to be anything that I can say that won’t make things worse. But, I’m not perfect so I don’t always get quiet in time. In other words I might still try to preserve the conversation. I try not to JADE, as that never works.

I don’t think my self esteem really gets affected. I feel frustrated when she doesn’t want to hear me but  it doesn’t change what I think of myself. Perhaps that’s why I get so frustrated. I know that I’m not really doing or saying anything that warrants that kind of response. Rather I am frustrated that I’m those moments she doesn’t seem to see or hear me as having anything to contribute to the conversation. That’s usually when I persist, because I don’t see myself that way. When I talk to my T about these types of situations he merely validates me for my efforts and recognizes my intentions.

When you say to try something new, I’m not sure what I could do.

I think I do a pretty good job of staying true to myself and my values. That can be something else that bothers her. What I mean is that I do what I think is right and appropriate, what comes naturally to me. But I often get met with “you never involve me in decisions, you just act and hope I don’t get mad.” Or if I do check with her then I’m met with “ why can’t you just make a decision on your own. You don’t have to ask me everything.” The ol’ damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

I talk to my friends, family, therapist, and BPDfamily to get a second opinion on these situations when I’m being accused of being selfish, apathetic, or just not caring about her or my family. I am usually trying to figure out if she’s overreacting or if I actually did something wrong. For years now, the vast majority of responses has been validation. But I do get called out if I did do something wrong (using the term loosely). So my conviction and self esteem are still strong and positive.

[Cat Familiar]

Have you ever asked her if she wants to hear what you have to say?

Or does she think you have anything worthwhile to contribute to the conversation?

I'd be asking those questions. When you ask questions, you steer the conversation.

When she says, "You never include me in decisions," you can ask which decisions she'd like to be included in. Does she want to be included in decision x, y, or z?

That she said, "you just act and hope I don't get mad" seems to indicate that she's aware that she uses her anger as a cudgel.

[formflier]

There are many times that there is absolutely nothing I can say to prevent my wife from being irritating.

It used to bug me...took me some time and work with my P (psychologist) to understand it's actually liberating.

So...since I'm not going to affect her being upset, I might as well communicate in the way that suits me (vice her).

Look at it another way...we get trapped into doing gymnastics to "keep them happy"..then they want more and when we can't deliver..we are "bad".  We get so trapped we don't even ask "who made us the keepers to their happiness?" 

I suppose I'm one of the more successful people around here, yet I still find communication difficult, especially when it's really important.

Accurately gathering and presenting information to a lawyer is important.  Gathering accurate information from a pwBPD is...interesting.

about 2 hours ago...

FF:  "Hey babe..did you get a chance to look over the court summons and law code chapters I emailed you."

FFw: "blah blah blah we need to get a lawyer."

FF:  "I agree we need to get a lawyer, I'll call our legal plan tomorrow.  Did you get to read what I sent you?"

FFw:  "blab blah blah, we don't want to go to court without a lawyer, we don't know what we are doing, just get a lawyer"

FF:  "We will get a lawyer, can we talk about the information I emailed to you?"

FFw: " blah blah blah why don't we have a lawyer yet, we need to get a lawyer."

FF:  "FFw...we agree on getting a lawyer.  Let's stop talking in any way about what we agree about and only discuss the information I emailed you?"

FFw: kind of off put and sputtering "well..I don't know anything about it"

FF  "did you read it?"

FFw  sigh 

I proceeding to ask her about each of the three "elements" needed to make a claim under the state code and she huffed a bit and acknowledged she didn't know anything about any of the elements but I did find out she had a video that might be helpful for our argument

She promised to send it to me.  I don't have it yet.

When I call her...anyone want to guess what she will say to me?

"We need to get a lawyer..."

Note:  You will note the absence of SET or anything from my conversation.  Maybe that was a mistake...maybe not.  I just went for the info and said what I had to say.

In this particular case..I realize I'm not the target, yet I needed to "fish for information".

Anyway...last thought.  Someone mentioned "another language".  That's actually a helpful analogy.  I think it actually is another language.

Best,

FF

[globalnomad]

I totally relate to this baffled and confused feeling. Here is an example of a type of conversation that happens regularly with my wife.

Her: Can you pass me that book over there?
Me: Uhhh (hesitating for 2 milliseconds as I look for the book she is pointing at)
Her: Over there! (raising voice)
Me: Sure, which one? (there are three books on the table and I genuinely don't know which one she's referring to)
Her: Forget it. I don't know why I even bother. You never listen to anything I say.

I used to get upset about these kind of interactions. And then I'd get sucked into trying to explain to her how she was being unreasonable. Never went well. Now I just walk away and at least don't make things worse. But it's really frustrating and the core problem never really seems to get resolved.

[RestlessWanderer]

Globalnomad, you nailed it. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. I only know how to not make these things worse,  not how to make them better. But this is the type of thing that is completely eroding our relationship.
How can I hope for any type of improvement when something that benign can trigger my wife?
Right now the only answer to that question seems to be “I can’t.”

[AskingWhy]

In my experienced, a pwBPD has such low self esteem that they see everything through a distorted filter that reflects that poor self esteem. 

As FF notes, sometimes there is nothing you can do to prevent this. 

My uBPD H can take any conversation and turn it into how bad I am as a W, which is also a projection of him as an H.  (H rages, punches holes in walls, destroys furniture and light fixtures, scares the pets with his anger, and etc) 

I know I used the words everything, nothing and any, but that is the was BPDs think.

[globalnomad]

Globalnomad, you nailed it. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. I only know how to not make these things worse,  not how to make them better. But this is the type of thing that is completely eroding our relationship.
How can I hope for any type of improvement when something that benign can trigger my wife?
Right now the only answer to that question seems to be “I can’t.”

I wish I knew the answer. It's easy to shrug off one or two incidents like the above a day -- if things are otherwise fine. But what if it happens 10 times a day? In my case it leads to a kind of protective disengagement. I do my best to not make things worse, with a lot more success than I used to have. But it ends up with me cutting short a lot of interactions and just walking away. That's not any kind of recipe for intimacy or positive feelings in a relationship.

[Cat Familiar]

In my case it leads to a kind of protective disengagement. I do my best to not make things worse, with a lot more success than I used to have. But it ends up with me cutting short a lot of interactions and just walking away. That's not any kind of recipe for intimacy or positive feelings in a relationship.

Absolutely true that this does not lead to a fulfilling relationship for the non. However, it may be a necessary step to rebuild the relationship.

I was absolutely flabbergasted and insulted when my husband told me that he didn’t trust me. I had been previously married to a serial philanderer, who was financially irresponsible, had a substance abuse habit, and who was violent.

I have never done any of these transgressions and was irate that he would tell me he didn’t trust me. But it wasn’t about any of this. It was that he didn’t trust me emotionally because I could hurt him.

I’m committed to the marriage and I still didn’t understood what he was talking about. But over time, it started making sense.

With my directness and my bluntness, I could easily say something devastating and true about him which would wound him to the core. To me, it might seem insignificant because I’ve been around people who crack jokes and say offensive things in jest. And I certainly didn’t feel mean spirited when I’ve teased him about something unimportant, but to him, it could have felt shattering.

Now that I’m aware of his sensitivity, I no longer engage in any conversation poking fun at him, which previously I thought was insignificant and would have happily participated in if the roles were reversed.

And over time, he has started to trust me again. On the one hand, as I write this out, it sounds absurd. He’s had a successful law career, yet the way I describe him, he sounds emotionally disabled. And he is, to some extent, in an intimate relationship.

It’s hard to truly understand how our partners can be so damaged, yet seem somewhat normal-ish, but BPD can really wreak havoc on their sense of self.

Since it’s a disorder that’s on a spectrum, there are no guarantees that learning all you can about BPD, utilizing the tools we teach here, and being on your best behavior as their partner—may or may not yield a relationship that is fulfilling for you. But it’s certainly likely to improve things.

[formflier]

But it’s certainly likely to improve things.

And...you will figure out the bounds of what is and isn't possible in your relationship.

The vast majority of things are dramatically better in my relationship.  There are a few things that are "core wounds" of my wife that I just need to "bubblewrap" and not go there

For instance, I can't remember the last time I told my wife "you are wrong".  I have other ways of communicating the same thing (very gently) but from her childhood she was told this so much that it wasn't that she was wrong about an issue...it was taken by her to mean "she was wrong" (or bad).

I tend to be a "direct" or "blunt" person as well and personally if I said something wrong...I would appreciate if Cat Familiar piped up and let me know.

So..I figured my wife would appreciate it as well and it was perplexing that "right" information would set her off.

Anyway...it's a journey and we are here to help.

Best,

FF

[globalnomad]

Thanks CF and FF. It does give me hope listening to those who have used the tools on here and seen significant improvements in their relationships. Like I said earlier, I am getting better at not making things worse (most of the time). That still doesn't feel very satisfying. But my hope it it's a transitional stage on the way to something better. Sorry RW for hijacking this thread...