I'm afraid of what would happen if I move out

[IWantToLive]

This post was split off from another thread, as it merited its own thread.

Hi All, with no intention to hijack Kaufmann's thread but my story seems so similar and so putting my situation here and request suggestions/guidance.

Been 14years for my marriage and have 2 kids. I would accept at the outset that a fault of mine right at the onset of our marriage has led to my situation today. But to say that I didn’t make amends to correct that and make my wife feel respected and loved in our marriage would be grossly incorrect.

Fast forward to today, sick and tired of those umpteen sittings with her where I goad in front of her trying to convince her of my best intentions but to no avail and her new weapon is to use foul language even while kids are around and listening, throwing things around, shouting. One moment she will be asking for me to leave for good, second moment she would go rent a flat and stay separately and any later moment that she will kill herself. As per her, in all these 14 years, I am always at fault (don't recall a single instance where she accepted that she got it wrong), or am no good and that am the reason for all her sorrows and miseries, that it is my responsibility to make her life fulsome.

So, what tipped it this time - she secretly sniffed at my Whatsapp conversation with my father where he asked me to get him few things online as he is unable to. I got to know about it but didn't react to it. Having been sick and tired of the silent treatment that I had been getting all these years I have now started keeping my conversations with her transactional (as opposed to earlier times when I used to make her sit and talk). Her tactic is to try stop me from doing anything at hand (including sleeping at night) by engaging me in conversation. If I try avoiding a conversation then she will scream, abuse verbally, throw things around etc. Yesterday, 1130pm when I am fast asleep, she switches on the light of the room to get ready to go out. I woke up and questioned her to which no answer and I followed her to the door. After I questioned her umpteen times, she sits down and it is the same rant again that how much time I have spent with her during the day or if we have good memories or what is the plan for future.

Am really, really sick of all this now. I want a way out but unable to muster courage coz am too attached to my kids as well as am scared of her threats of taking her life. I am afraid of the uncertainty as to what would happen if I indeed move out. I am unable to decide and I have lost focus in life.

What would any of you have done in a similar situation?

[formflier]

What would any of you have done in a similar situation?

Not "pick up" her many offers to fight.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

 
I'm curious why she does all that stuff (hollering and pitching a fit) when you try to avoid a conversation.

What do you think?

Best,

FF

[Danetone]

I don't know what I would do, because I'm in the exact same situation. She gets out of the hospital, and then goes back a couple days later. (Her paranoia has gotten so bad that she has become psychotic, which happens more and more often as times goes on.)
We keep getting evicted, she's gone to jail twice (because the ignorant cops didn't recognize a crisis situation.) Our belongings keep getting destroyed, smashed and shattered onto the sidewalk and street. Won't let me sleep unless she's tired herself.
I think if I were to leave she just might kill herself because of her extreme fear of abandonment. So I don't leave, and resign myself to it just being this way. I'm constantly depressed and feel like broken glass because I am completely unable to help her.
I feel for you. Believe me, I understand.

[IWantToLive]

I'm curious why she does all that stuff (hollering and pitching a fit) when you try to avoid a conversation.

What do you think?

Best,

FF
[/quote
I have no clue as to what satisfaction she gets by raging.

Only today, her 2 day long fit came to an end. Reason been she wanted me to speak with a lawyer and file for a divorce. I fixed the appointment and she was so eager to speak with the lawyer but once we were off the phone, her rage started again and am confused - few minutes ago she was all for leaving me and now raging again and am thinking "why rage if you want to leave...leave in an amicable way and let be all in peace." Another thing she caught on - I booked a therapy session and she is like why do I need therapy. I reminded her that only couple of weeks ago I had requested her to come for a couple's therapy and she declined and said that I can go on my own. Now that I booked one, why did I do so and when did she say so?

After calming down, she is preaching me that I should listen to her for motivation rather than to motivational speakers, that these speakers are fraud and that I will find peace if I do stuff for her to keep her happy. Seriously?

[IWantToLive]

I don't know what I would do, because I'm in the exact same situation. She gets out of the hospital, and then goes back a couple days later. (Her paranoia has gotten so bad that she has become psychotic, which happens more and more often as times goes on.)
We keep getting evicted, she's gone to jail twice (because the ignorant cops didn't recognize a crisis situation.) Our belongings keep getting destroyed, smashed and shattered onto the sidewalk and street. Won't let me sleep unless she's tired herself.
I think if I were to leave she just might kill herself because of her extreme fear of abandonment. So I don't leave, and resign myself to it just being this way. I'm constantly depressed and feel like broken glass because I am completely unable to help her.
I feel for you. Believe me, I understand.

Tell me about the losses I have incurred because of her rash behavior - she once smashed her iPhone so bad that it became irreparable (not to mention so many other things that have flown around my home and in front of kids).

Today she tells me that she doesn't like my going for workouts in morning! Why? Coz when she asked me to go with her, I declined. Yes, I declined coz I don't want to be with her (at least some thing where I can be alone) and I don't want myself to be tutored/reprimanded by her while working out. I want some time alone...

Another instance - I am on a call with neighbor who wanted car jumping cables. The neighbor asks what made me got a jumping cable and I told that I don't wish to go about asking around for it when in need and my wife started teaching me mannerisms. Right from our engagement day I have been tutored on how and how much to laugh, how and what to speak etc. etc. and today that I have shut down - at home and in public - she rages why I have shut down? I am at my wits end

[formflier]

Right from our engagement day I have been tutored on how and how much to laugh, how and what to speak etc. etc. and today that I have shut down - at home and in public - she rages why I have shut down? I am at my wits end

Can you see that her need to control someone else is very high? 

What does she do when you don't allow her to control you?

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

Can you see that her need to control someone else is very high? 

What does she do when you don't allow her to control you?

Best,

FF

Yes, she has immense desire/need to control - just not me but the entire world (her parents, my family, kids, her reputation in the neighborhood etc.)

If I don't allow her to control me (like last week when I tried telling her that am not comfortable she checking my Whatsapp), she will start abusing me of worst kind (even in front of kids and as well can abuse them if they try to distract her), start throwing things around that she is able to grab, threaten suicide, will force me to leave home or else that she will leave and to that extent that she wants divorce asap etc.

Day before yesterday night, her tantrums were on and I could barely manage 3 hours of sleep and then her arguments continued morning too. I finally somehow managed to patch up but yesterday night, as I was too sleepy, I fell asleep while putting my daughter to bed. I was then woken up by her and her worst reactions surfaced - not only did she call me names but she got physical with me. While as much as I wanted to retaliate I kept my calm. My daughter woke up and she pushed her away to her room yelling at her. Her justification for her behavior been that while we patched up in the morning I had told her all is in past and we will have fun today and that I didn't keep my promise and that I have always been such not caring for her and that I might as well go f*** my daughter.

I tried not taking all of it personally and finally was able to calm her storm but am for sure broken.

[formflier]

I tried not taking all of it personally and finally was able to calm her storm but am for sure broken.

That must have been exhausting.


I'm curious about something.

How is it you are able to calm her storm after she starts, yet you are not able to control if she starts or not?

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

How is it you are able to calm her storm after she starts, yet you are not able to control if she starts or not?

Hi FF, mostly it is due to exhaustion after hours and hours of rage that she is then ready to listen and that is when am able to say few things that maybe calms her down. But mostly, her rage returns overnight and it is the same cycle but maybe shorter this time.

So, yesterday, for example I first time cooled her down that I still feel for her, care for her and wish to be with her all throughout (which is a lie though) and that we will have fun. However, I fail when it comes to walking the talk coz there is no conviction to follow through and this is where she starts again. The reason there is no conviction is this that am so burnt that I fear opening up with her as to what next she will pick me up on and spoil the day.

[formflier]

Hi FF, mostly it is due to exhaustion after hours and hours of rage

I would agree.

Would you think it's "mostly" or "all" due to exhaustion?

Can you imagine with me for just a minute?  What if...what if it turned out that your attempts to control and calm were actually counterproductive?

What would be the result of that realization (should it be true) on the decisions you make about the relationship?

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

Would you think it's "mostly" or "all" due to exhaustion?

Honestly, hard to say. After I arrived at BPDFamily and learnt about BPD and do's and don'ts, I stopped going after her convincing her of my intentions. I used to get silent treatments but after few days she used to return to normal.

Can you imagine with me for just a minute?  What if...what if it turned out that your attempts to control and calm were actually counterproductive?

What would be the result of that realization (should it be true) on the decisions you make about the relationship?

Yes, I have realized this that mostly they have been counterproductive. I had this realization after going through others' experiences on BPDFamily. What decisions I will make - again, I feel myself at sea. The one thing I really wish I could do is to walk away but for sake of kids find it difficult to implement. Otherwise, I have mostly shut down with her again which bothers her and I now feel am adding to the drama but conviction is not there to engage with her. Overall, still trying to find my way out. I tried meditating and she opposes that as well.

[formflier]

Otherwise, I have mostly shut down with her again which bothers her and I now feel am adding to the drama but conviction is not there to engage with her. Overall, still trying to find my way out. I tried meditating and she opposes that as well.

Is the goal for her not to be bothered?

or

Are you ok doing things that "bother" her?

Trust me here...the answers to these questions are important and they are "going somewhere"..

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

Is the goal for her not to be bothered?

or

Are you ok doing things that "bother" her?

Trust me here...the answers to these questions are important and they are "going somewhere"..

Something or the other will always bother her - so, I don't believe that could be the goal else I will simply end up being a robot in her hands.

I, therefore, do need to continue on with my things/life that will sure bother her but I need to (guess) learn ways to stop her or mitigate her rage and impact thereof.

[formflier]

  that will sure bother her but I need to (guess) learn ways to stop her or mitigate her rage and impact thereof.

So close...so close.

I'm curious about something else.  How did you become responsible for her out of control (or in control for that matter) emotions?

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

I'm curious about something else.  How did you become responsible for her out of control (or in control for that matter) emotions?

Not sure if you are hinting that no one is responsible for other's emotions but in my case I feel guilty of something that happened at the start of our R/S - I feel everything today is a chain reaction of that behavior of mine that time. However, while I made her my priority and did everything to help make a happy home, my differences with her always cropped up due to her taking offence to trivial issues and blowing out of proportion and I hell bent trying to convince her of my intentions.

Specific instance (recent one) - my mother was with us when Corona lockdown got announced and intercity travel got prohibited. My wife therefore had to shut her clinic and thus wanted her rules to prevail at home leading to conflicts between my mother and her. My mother felt trapped as she couldn't leave and ultimately shut down and the environment overall became very heavy - passing each day was a burden and finally one day my mother had a meltdown. She eventually got to leave but the way she left (second time in 2 years), I was utterly dejected for I could clearly see that the situations (between my mother and my wife) for last 2 times weren't my mother's making (though to be honest, early on in our marriage my mother did play wrongly and thereafter it was a never ending tussle between the two). So, I was dejected and our interactions became transactional - she started sleeping in other room (5 months) and then all hell broke loose (couple of weeks ago) when I caught her prying on my Whatsapp conversation with my dad and I expressing my discomfort with her checking my phone.

That's how I feel I led to her utter dysregulation.

[formflier]

That's how I feel I led to her utter dysregulation.

So..after reading your story again (please do), do you believe it's accurate/appropriate to own her rage?

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

So..after reading your story again (please do), do you believe it's accurate/appropriate to own her rage?

Agree and I have started already disowning reasons for her age. What bothers me is I am unable to muster enough courage to call her bluff one last time, let all hell break loose one last time with parents involved and go my own way. Multiple scenarios come to mind primarily being that it will not happen amicably and will have a huge impact on kids who are already scared of her rage and blindly follow her out of fear and that I will be away from my kids at least half the time and not sure how they will be treated. All this is impacting my professional growth and unable to pick on hobbies in a consistent way that could help motivate me.

A nibble in throat that neither can be swallowed nor spit out.

She has finally agreed to a couple's therapy next week but I know her intentions are more to listen to what I wish to discuss rather than actually treat her raging behavior.

[formflier]

  What bothers me is I am unable to muster enough courage to call her bluff one last time

Hmmm...what would calling her bluff look like?  How would that help? 

Let's say you "call her blufff" and now it's a couple days later, describe how your relationship will be improved?

She has finally agreed to a couple's therapy next week but I know her intentions are more to listen to what I wish to discuss rather than actually treat her raging behavior.

So, have you ever been to therapy before?  Individual or couples?

Do I understand it correctly that your goal in going to couples therapy is to change an individuals behavior?

Best,

FF

[IWantToLive]

Hmmm...what would calling her bluff look like?  How would that help? 

Let's say you "call her blufff" and now it's a couple days later, describe how your relationship will be improved?

It's more from the perspective of separation/divorce where I will be no more concerned about improving relationship with her. Now that you asked me about "calling her bluff", I realize am unable to put them to words and sure will not help.

So, have you ever been to therapy before?  Individual or couples?

Do I understand it correctly that your goal in going to couples therapy is to change an individuals behavior?

I have been to individuals therapy about 6 years ago but I just ended up ranting out and the counsellor didn't offer me anything really to help alleviate my situation. But this time I was more prepared on what I want to achieve out of therapy. Alas, I disclosed my plan to her of going again for therapy as last time when she got to know about my individual sessions, till date she hollers me that how I can go telling one sided story to someone. She still feels her outrages are all normal behaviors for anyone as she is suffering a lot with me and so she doesn't need any fixing. But that she will come along and will portray her versions as well.

Yes, I intended for her to come for therapy so as to be able to fix her behavior. But I see now that it is not going to help and whatever I will mention to the T might backfire on me. Doomed again.