Daughter found messages on phone

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Revenge is sweet.

For quite some time you have wanted the the stbx-wife to confess her affair to your 8, 10, and 11 year old girls... Stbx-wife is forever shamed in the eyes of her girls - and this would crush any mother - but a dxBPD mother will be broken by it. It is as damaging to her as the affair was to you - maybe more so. And she won't be able to escape the shame - this will resurface for years in disputes with the kids. Her boyfriend is also whacked - he will be a target of blame and this will play hard on their relationship and make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to develop a relationship with the girls. They did it (affair) and these were always the possible consequences.

I allowed W to take the lead with regards to how that was managed and was content to leave myself neutral and allow her to take any fallout from the disconnect between what kids knew and were aware of and the ‘story’ W fed them. Clearly this didn’t happen and the kids sought my version of the truth because they trusted my integrity. They could not trust their mother because they knew for a fact after discovering their own evidence that she had been deceitful. Was the option to remain neutral still there? I don’t think it was since staying neutral and providing no information, or deferring to W to provide information is a story neither were willing to listen to anymore.

Respectfully, I can't agree with your rhetorical question. You had choice. You had choice to mitigate or intensify - protect the children or revenge the wife's affair. In fairness, you got plenty of advice on how to mitigate without lying and you got it early enough to be able to do so.  You also got advice on how to reverse course once the train was headed down the track. You chose to intensify. You have to own that.

Your choice to intensify, no matter how justified (and it was justified), will have ramifications for years - now that the kids are fully immersed and participating in the adult fight and there is an adult competition for their approval (and disapproval of  the other parent).

Research has shown that kids recover from a reasonably amicable divorce in 12-24 months and live life (academic achievement, emotional and behavior problems, delinquency, self-concept and social relationships) similar to kids from intact households. Researchers have also consistently found that high levels of parental conflict during and after a divorce are associated with poorer adjustment in children.

Technically its not too late from the children's perspective to resolve this, but now that the adult fight is fully amped up, and the prior attempts by the boyfriend to work amicably nailed shut, the battle lines are drawn.

A person with BPD feels wounds much deeper than a person without and they tend to have either a disproportionate and exaggerated response or they walk away. A person with NPD tendencies often reacts intensively to an ego (narcissistic) wound. They can plot and retaliate for a lifetime.

[Skip]

Revenge is sweet.

For quite some time you have wanted the the stbx-wife to confess her affair to your 8, 10, and 11 year old girls... Stbx-wife is forever shamed in the eyes of her girls - and this would crush any mother - but a dxBPD mother will be broken by it. It is as damaging to her as the affair was to you - maybe more so. And she won't be able to escape the shame - this will resurface for years in disputes with the kids. Her boyfriend is also whacked - he will be a target of blame and this will play hard on their relationship and make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to develop a relationship with the girls. They did it (affair) and these were always the possible consequences.

I allowed W to take the lead with regards to how that was managed and was content to leave myself neutral and allow her to take any fallout from the disconnect between what kids knew and were aware of and the ‘story’ W fed them. Clearly this didn’t happen and the kids sought my version of the truth because they trusted my integrity. They could not trust their mother because they knew for a fact after discovering their own evidence that she had been deceitful. Was the option to remain neutral still there? I don’t think it was since staying neutral and providing no information, or deferring to W to provide information is a story neither were willing to listen to anymore.

Respectfully, I can't agree with your rhetorical question. You had choice. You had choice to mitigate or intensify - protect the children or revenge the wife's affair. In fairness, you got plenty of advice on how to mitigate without lying and you got it early enough to be able to do so.  You also got advice on how to reverse course once the train was headed down the track. You chose to intensify. You have to own that.

Your choice to intensify, no matter how justified (and it was justified), will have ramifications for years - now that the kids are fully immersed and participating in the adult fight and there is an adult competition for their approval (and disapproval of  the other parent).

Research has shown that kids recover from a reasonably amicable divorce in 12-24 months and live life (academic achievement, emotional and behavior problems, delinquency, self-concept and social relationships) similar to kids from intact households. Researchers have also consistently found that high levels of parental conflict during and after a divorce are associated with poorer adjustment in children.

Technically its not too late from the children's perspective to resolve this, but now that the adult fight is fully amped up, and the prior attempts by the boyfriend to work amicably nailed shut, the battle lines are drawn.

A person with BPD feels wounds much deeper than a person without and they tend to have either a disproportionate and exaggerated response or they walk away. A person with NPD tendencies often reacts intensively to an ego (narcissistic) wound. They can plot and retaliate for a lifetime.

[Enabler]

You have a dim opinion of me Skip, almost contemptuous. What am I supposed to do with that post?

[once removed]

Was the option to remain neutral still there?

honesty can be used as a weapon, New-life. shakespeares character iago in othello is a famous example and a great study.

i, too, think there was an opportunity to remain neutral for the benefit of the children and in a way to maintain your integrity. please don't take that as contempt. its an honest answer to your question.

[Fian]

One thing that I would like to point out is that the fact that your wife is within walking distance of your house is resulting in some disturbing behavior of your children.  Right now it is working towards the detriment of your wife, but it could easily reverse in the future if you try to ground your children, and they then punish you by walking over to your wife's house.  There may be some security risks too, especially if D7 tries it.

[mart555]

Remember, your girls are a risk for developing BPD traits. It runs in families ad if mom has BPD, there is a 50% chance of each child developing traits. A mismanaged co-parenting gambit could be the emotional burn that flips them into lifelong turmoil.

Where is this stat from?  I have two kids and one of them has definitely traits.  I'm trying to help and he's made tremendous progress in the last year (he hasn't seen his mom) but I'm afraid he will regress because visits will resume soon...  and I can't get much help anywhere because it's all "oh, we can't diagnose BPD, this behavior is likely just due to anxiety".  Yes, I know he has anxiety and we're working on that. But there's more. I can see his mom behavior in him and she was severe BPD!

[Enabler]

Sorry all, busy week and lots and lots of homework.

Saw co-parenting specialist on Wed. W was pretty slow and cautious when describing what had happened initially and I think she'd forgotten that she'd told the T in Jan that she was in a relationship with OM and had been for some time. Meeting was productive and T was supportive that I was doing what was required to encourage the children to see their mother. We discussed the kids coming to see her and the practicalities around encouraging that to happen. She stressed that she wants to see them when they want to see her and encouragement rather than "forcing" them was the most appropriate method. She asserted that it was still relatively early days and the two traumas had come pretty close together and were still pretty raw.

She encouraged W to continue reaching out softly.

D10 is keen(ish) to see the T, D12 (who probably stands to benefit the most) was a flat "no". T was pretty open to whether the kids came together or separately.

Fian, I hear you on the risk, I didn't let D10 leave the house to deliver her anger note a few weeks back. However, I can't control what happens when D10 or D7 try to leave W's house.

New-Life

[ForeverDad]

Does she care about the kids, yes she does and she was a good attentive mother when they were young. BUT, as time has gone on she has become less and less attentive and more and more self-focused making choices prioritising spending time with the boyfriend rather than spending time with the kids.

I'm not sure whether this comment has been addressed.  I'll expound on it here.

Many BPD/disordered parents, generally mothers, are so attached to their children that they view them as virtual appendages. Other BPD/disordered parents are less attached to their children.  There is quite a range of behaviors and that can change over time as well.

Your spouse seems to have been attentive to the children while they were young.  An "attentive mother" as it were.  That is typical with younger children.  But as they get older, children naturally crave some more independence, they're starting to think for themselves.  Your spouse may not be able to accept that growing need for a measure of increasing independence and independent thought, observations and perspectives.

I think I mentioned your spouse seems to also be focused on her adult relationship.  She's straddled between her current adult love interest and keeping the kids as her 'advocates'.  She seems to need then "on her side".  Not surprisingly, the older children have their own thoughts about the matter.  That is to be expected.  In time they may have to accept their mother will do as she pleases... but they don't have to like it nor do they have to (no should they) reject or blame you for their mother's choices.