Guidance needed re 48 year old daughter's habitual overspending.

[Roses are red]

My daughter habitually overspends. About 10 years ago I realized she had BPD after reading Stop Walking on Eggshells and talking with a counsellor since I was at my wits' end. The symptoms of BPD made sense of my daughter's behaviour (not the most extreme). I was told not to tell her at that time. Few specific resources available where I live at that time. She has been seeing a counsellor for many years and also suffers from Anxiety and depression and from losing her job and having cancer requiring surgery (No cancer now) 5 years ago. Unable to work. I asked her counsellor once if she had considered BPD and she said yes but didn't like labels. I have only met with her once or twice. She has never asked for my perspective or input in situations in which I have been involved. Not sure if my daughter reports what her counsellor tells her accurately. Crisis now as I plan for my own future (I am 76) and that of my son and daughter. When I learned of her probable diagnosis of BPD I shared that with  her father and my son. Helped us all to understand her. Overspending and me bailing her out has to stop. I know I have enabled her. I am now wondering if it would be helpful to tell her of this underlying disorder since overspending is a symptom and she has a hard time seeing that. Builds up credit card bills. Has gone bankrupt but still not careful. Not luxuries just does not live within her means. Telling her of her disorder would explain some of my own and my son's recent actions that she is so upset about. What shall I do? Talk to her counsellor if she will hear me? She also has some group therapy which maybe CBT or DBT. I have now been seeking psychologist for advice but none will see me- full case loads.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[CountTo108]

My sympathies; it’s hard to watch someone who seems to be self-sabotaging.

You mention talking with her counselor, who hasn’t asked your input. The counselor is not supposed to talk with you extensively;  the counselor is bound by confidentiality to his/her client, your daughter. If the counselor is ethical, you’ll get few details. And whatever your daughter has said (truthful or not) is between her and the counselor. Again, if the counselor is any good, he/she will have a well-tuned bull-hockey detector.

Since you are 76 and widowed, it sounds like you need to make sure your own future is secure financially; you cannot keep forking over cash. It will never be enough. Ever. Telling her she’s a pwBPD is not likely to go well (I cannot tell whether she has a formal, professional diagnosis). Imagine someone telling you that you must stop driving because you’re 76; how would you respond?

You can refer her to credit counseling, social services (food banks, housing, Medicaid), and validate her feelings (“It must feel frustrating when…”). But you don’t owe her an explanation. If you cannot find a counselor for yourself—are there minister, pastors, clergy you can consult with?

[PearlsBefore]

  Amateur opinion ahead! 

I wouldn't personally suggest bringing up your presumed diagnosis in relation to her over-spending; either she has BPD and she'll feel betrayed by being told about it, or she doesn't and she'll feel understandably that you've mislabelled her and that could cause further friction.

If you're going to discuss the possibility, I'd suggest broaching it one of two ways - if there is a HUGE trigger-point like a history of suicide attempts, a crime spree or multiple violent incidents...then she'll likely be willing to hear your theory, since it offers a way to escape feeling like SHE is a bad person, just that she has a "disease" which causes her to do bad things. That's, with a touch of irony, the easiest way to broach the possibility from my understanding and experience.

The second way would be just to broach BPD in a roundabout fashion, perhaps this week mentioning that you read about some celebrities (Amy Winehouse, Courtney Love, Princess Diana are apparently three of the most-accepted; I'm more skeptical of claims like Jim Carrey who seems to have SOMETHING but not Borderline)...then next week mentioning a news story about this same PD, isn't that funny, you hadn't ever heard of it before last week now you see it mentioned everywhere, etc, etc.

In the meantime, while it's helpful for her father and brother to have the same information you have, be careful not to "gossip" about the presumed diagnosis behind her back; her struggles and pains are in many ways no less real just because they are caused by this "disease", and she'll likely catastrophise and be upset to hear you've all been saying "she's crazy" even if that's not what you were saying. Tiptoeing is sometimes necessary, especially if she isn't yet at a place where she's ready to say to herself "Maybe it's not just part of my unique snowflake personality...maybe something is wrong".

[Roses are red]

Not sure if I am using this message board correctly. Replies and reading other's posts have been very helpful, not least in realizing I am not alone. Also I can see where I have not handled things well. Since writing before I did reach out to her counsellor who as I expected said family contact was shared with her patient and so did not tell her anything. Have now left message for her family doctor. Don't know if she will respond. Very busy. None of the psychologists specializing in BPD  in my area have space to see me. I am seeing another counsellor who is being very helpful. Made a decision  not to give her more money to pay off debts and not to leave my house to her-rather to be sold and proceeds shared with her brother. She is very angry with me and also with her brother. Says we are through, relationship ruined for ever. This is very sad as she can be wonderful, kind, caring etc. However, right now I feel some relief to have a break after difficult month or so. I don't know whether a proper formal diagnosis would help her at this stage of her life but she is intelligent. It would now be up to her doctor, if she phones me, to follow up. I love her and it is difficult to have her walk away.  Fortunately she has friends. Thanks for the support and insights, sharing of experiences here.  Oh and yes, saw an online course (Family Guidelines?) recommended and am considering taking that if its not too late for me to change my ways of reacting and coping after nearly 49 years of this. We have gone  through calm times and bad episodes over the years.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Roses are Red:
Don't get into the weeds with wanting to tell your daughter she is likely BPD.  You are focusing on dealing with the behaviors and that's a good approach. 

Telling her she is BPD won't likely improve anything.  She is already in therapy.  There is no magic pill for BPD, but most with BPD have other mental health issues.  Meds for mental health issues like depression, anxiety, bipolar, ADHD, OCD, etc. can be prescribed by a psychiatrist.  Sometimes, a primary care doctor prescribes psyc. meds, but its' best to have a psychiatric evaluation.

Keep enforcing boundaries & don't bail her out financially.  Maybe even consider some restrictions on whatever inheritance you decide to allocate to her.  i.e. She receives a certain percentage at incremental points in time, or events.

You have no power to fix her.  She has to want to make changes.  You have the power to enforce boundaries and to learn communication skills that can make things easier for you. You have control of how you interact and react.

Consider interviewing some therapists that can help coach you with some of the emotional intelligence tools mentioned on the website.  It can help to learn about things like boundaries, validation/don't invalidate, "I" Statements, SET statements, don't JADE, etc. and then practice them with a therapist.

Some people start threads here, read through the workshops & then post about an example situation & gain input on how to put different strategies into practice.

Perhaps, for starters, reinforce your knowledge of boundaries (you are the one to enforce them).  Then, learn about validating feelings (not agreeing with a position, if you don't), or at least how to NOT invalidate feelings.  Then, take a strategy at a time.

[formflier]

I would take a step back and separate issues into what you can control and what you can't.

You control what you say to your daughter and what you give her ($$/enabling)

You don't control her overspending, BKs or her treatment for whatever issues she may have.

Very wise of you to realize that enabling needs to stop!   

So...laid out that way, what do you think YOU will do going forward?

What does enabling looking like from your perspective? 

What do you think it looks like from your daughters perspective?

Best,

FF