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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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MrRight
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« on: November 06, 2020, 03:22:46 AM »

So I left her in September and now have my own flat near where my mother lives.

I am though going through a very difficult aftermath because I am having dealings with her.

She wants to move to another location in the country and that is ok. The house has been up for sale and we found a buyer. It has been necessary for practical reasons for me to go to the house every weekend to prepare it for sale - a lot of clutter needs removing - packing etc. The problem is she wants me back and I am having to endure her and behave the way she wants in order to make life bearable while I am there. She insists on hugs etc. She also goes on about what a mistake I am making etc etc. In times of crisis couples should stay together - families should support each other ... you only left because of the hostility but that wont happen again so you can return.

In truth - even without the hostility violence etc - I wanted out of the relationship. I tried to tell her that when we got married I put into storage a lot of life aims for 18 years - and now I want to come back to those as our son is grown and independent. I also said I could only live alone - was always a loner. She seemed ok with this and I thought that would be the end of it. But the next weekend I came back she had forgotten and went back to the same arguments - you are having a mid life crisis etc. You will be lonley etc etc (that is rubbish but I cant tell her that - I have at least 6 online local women I am in touch with who are very friendly - I dont think I will be lonely) - I have said to her I am not looking to get into a new relationship (it would enrage her if I said anything else so I allow myself the luxury of this untruth).

It seems she cannot accept what has happened and that when I left her I really meant it.

Unfortunately our sale collapsed last week and we are looking for a new buyer - something that put me into deadly depression for a couple of days. I am going to be stuck with this situation until the house sells and she has physically moved.

How can I deal with her when she starts implying that we will at some stage be getting back together. My main strategy is silence when she talks this way - I try to be neutral about it rather than contradictory. I left her last year and we got back together. She may think if she keeps putting pressure on me I will eventually yield. But I just remind myself all the happiness I have ahead of me if I can just ride this out until the house is sold and I can finally get away from her for good so I just keep my mouth shut when she is looking for me to put an obligation on myself to come back. I have told her I would not rule out anything for the future - but as of now I like living alone and thats what I want. If I start to rule out ever returning - she becomes unstable. It is a very fine balancing act.

Please advise.
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I Am Redeemed
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2020, 07:43:22 AM »

Have you filed for divorce? Do you have an attorney?

My thoughts are that if you continue giving her answers that open the door for hope that the relationship could still be salvaged while forging ahead with clearing out the house for sale, she will eventually dysregulate because her pressures are not working and that could be dangerous for you.

Can you take anyone else with you when you go to the house? Or pay someone to do it for you? I think it is going to be very tough on your mental health to keep subjecting yourself to this. I went through it with my ex for a few months. We were living separately but he would guilt me into bringing my young son to visit with him and then he would use that opportunity to pressure me into resuming the relationship. It was hell on my mental state. Eventually, when his pressures were not getting him what he wanted, he disabled my vehicle so it would not start and I was trapped there with him. I'm concerned that your wife might physically do something to you as well if you do not end up conceding to her or if you keep giving her noncommittal answers while proceeding with getting the house ready for sale.

Do you really think she intends on moving or is she just saying that? You may want to consult an attorney to help you navigate through the selling of the house and the division of assets. I don't know if you have read any threads on the Family Law board but separation and divorce from a BPD can be extremely tricky. It's rarely as easy as just selling the house and being done.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2020, 10:58:20 AM »

You really seem to be clear on your goals and your ability and desire to live without her. Stay focused, stay strong.

The biggest stress right now is getting the house ready for sale. Seeing your wife once a week is the source of that stress. How can you eliminate your exposure to het?

I absolutely agree with I Am Redeemed that 1) you need to take someone with you if you go there to work, or 2) you need to hire a team to do the packing, etc. A third option would be to hire a team to go there once -- under your supervision -- to see what needs to be done, and they can then complete the work without your being there. The team would not be restricted to weekends.

Give yourself the gift of distance from her.
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MrRight
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2020, 11:37:18 AM »

Thank you for your replies!

Yes she is serious about moving - only the thought of her son keeps her going and she wants to move close to where he is - plus she is doing a PHd at the same university as him and is stuck in this village with no transport. So I do believe she wants to move - it makes sense.

Great news - we have found a new buyer for the house - though the sale is 2 months away it gives me a goal to look forward to.

For now I will need to visit the house but will try to scale things down - the main thing is being resolute in the face of her intention to pile obligations on me which she thinks will break down my will and result in me moving back to her.

We have agreed to do the divorce after the house sale - since we dont want everything splitting down the middle and I agree with her about how the assets should be split. She is getting the house and me the business. I am happy with that. So no lawyers needed and we are going to do a diy divorce - its cheap and relatively fast.

Wish me luck - I do hope that in 3 months or so I will reporting that it is all done and I can finally get on with my life.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2020, 12:06:15 PM »

Hey Mr. R, I suggest you meet w/a divorce attorney for a consultation, even though you are doing a DIY divorce.  The problem with a DIY divorce is that, "you don't know what you don't know."  You might inadvertently make mistakes that could cost you in the long run.  No need to tell your Ex; just do it for your own protection.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2020, 12:25:34 PM »

Guys - you should probably not waste your time with me.

I am back with her yet again.

As you know the house sale fell through and though we have a new buyer is could be 4 months process. My wife told me she could not survive in this time on her own and Im afraid I took pity on her and returned on that basis it is just until the house sells.

She also reminded me that I lied in her face over the summer when she asked if I wanted to break up and I said no - then vanished a few days later. Her position always been its ok to break up but must get the house sold first as she is without transport in a small village.

OK that got to me a bit as I felt it was an unfair way I had left.

So I am back. My mum has called me a timewaster and doesnt want to see me again.

Im in depression a bit and trying to see a way through. The house will sell in due course but then what?

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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 02:32:49 PM »

We are here for you. Some research says that people in abusive relationships often attempt to leave many times before making a final move. So don't be down on yourself -- this is difficult to work through.

What do you see as your steps over the next months? Are you focused on selling the house and then formally separating?

Please don't disengage from us. We can support you.
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MrRight
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2020, 02:42:46 PM »

We are here for you. Some research says that people in abusive relationships often attempt to leave many times before making a final move. So don't be down on yourself -- this is difficult to work through.

What do you see as your steps over the next months? Are you focused on selling the house and then formally separating?

Please don't disengage from us. We can support you.

Thanks.

Well the aim is to sell and buy the flat in the city where she is doing a phd and where her son studies. Once that is done my financial liabilities will come down significantly, she will have what she wants - and I will have no house sale headache. I note that she begins to disregulate at any suggestion I wont be settling into that flat with her. So I am going to leave that point for now and try to establish some functionality in the household until the move happens. She has always said she only needs me to rehome her and she will consider that I can leave without argument. I will in time come back to this promise and hopefully move on next year before Spring. My mum wont have me this time so will need to have a plan for accomodation.

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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2020, 04:36:32 AM »

I do value this board as frankly it is the only place I can get some understanding.

Having returned I am trying to adjust to back to home life with her and working out to what extent leaving in september has improved my situation.

On the positive side:

- reconnected with my mother after 15 years of not seeing her. We spent a lot of time together. On the other hand it did cross my mind that with her being 77 - in good physical health but suffering from paranoia - I was lining myself up for a middle age of catering for her needs and indeed being her full time carer as she has no one else.

- forced the price of our house down to a level where we finally have a buyer. Had I stayed I believe my wife would not have consented to these reductions - and I always saw selling the house and buying on with no mortgage - as crucial to my eventual financial freedom. So we are 2 - 3 months from selling. Had I stayed I think we would not have a buyer.

- so far everything is peaceful in the house - I wonder how long that will last but she is "behaving" herself so far. If this continues then it would have been worth leaving her to regulate her behaviour as I assume she is afraid I could leave once more.

On the negative side

- I feel I have caved in yet again to her wishes and wonder if I will have the strength in the future ot assert my will and leave this marriage when there are no further impediments to me doing so.

- It feels humiliating in front of my best friend, family etc - to return for the second time in 2 years.

- My mother has taken it badly and does not want to see me again. She is very angry. I would think the only parental response would be "I think you are making a mistake but I wish you luck. You will need it" - this is what I would say to my son.

I am now wondering what to do with my relationship with my wife as we are now living together. She has implied she wants sex for example.

Well that's it for now - thank you for your ongoing support.
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2020, 10:26:36 AM »

Hey Mr. R, What sort of boundaries are you establishing for yourself this time?  It's not up to her, my friend.  What makes you think the outcome will be different?  Plenty of us have recycled, often several times, including me.  It's all part of the push/pull of BPD.  What changes or adjustments are the two of you making?  What, if any, work is she doing on her issues?  What about you?  What are you working on?  Good luck and keep us posted.

LJ
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2020, 02:57:16 PM »

Hey Mr. R, What sort of boundaries are you establishing for yourself this time?  It's not up to her, my friend.  What makes you think the outcome will be different?  Plenty of us have recycled, often several times, including me.  It's all part of the push/pull of BPD.  What changes or adjustments are the two of you making?  What, if any, work is she doing on her issues?  What about you?  What are you working on?  Good luck and keep us posted.

LJ

Thanks LJ - well she is not to interfere or try to control my workload - that was one huge issue before as she drove me to exhaustion. So far that is ok - also no deriding my bodily functions - going to the toilet, for example.

Those are the two main concessions which are holding so far and are worth a lot to me.

Really LJ I would not and could not have returned but for the house sale. Selling a house is major work and I accepted her view in the end that I should be here to see it through. I really do feel I will have the strength to finalize things once the house is sold and she is settled in the flat she has chosen for herself.
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2020, 04:42:01 PM »

Hey MR-

I always follow your story, and I’m really sorry for what you’re going through.

Believe me, I do understand being drawn back in (more than once) before being able to set yourself free.  And I most certainly see the justification and your feelings behind the need to see the house sale through to its end.   Please Tell your best friend you STILL need his support.  And why not periodically meet him for coffee, lunch or a beer?

You can either consider this a “recycle” or not.  That’s your choice, and your eyes are wide open to how deeply her abuse has affected you over the years.  The difference will be, and this does relate to LJ’s reference to boundaries, if you allow intimacy into the equation.  Again, your choice.  I urge caution if your true intent is to set yourself free once the house is sold.

This week will be 9 months that I’m “out” of my latest abusive relationship with my BPD/NPDbf (6.5 years).  His phone mysteriously called me the other day.  I do my own “therapy” daily, and I am finally feeling free.  And if you CHOOSE that path, you will get there in time my friend.

In the meantime MR, hold tight to your boundaries and your views of what your future can be.   (And I’m not so convinced that consists of bending to every demand of any other person).  Your W KNOWS that her behaviors have caused this damage.  She has NEVER taken responsibility for her horrid actions.  And you know what you know.

And please... just in case, contact an attorney who’s familiar with high conflict divorce cases.   There does come a time where you DO matter.

Please stay here for support.  Whether you ultimately choose to stay or leave the relationship.

Warmly,
Gems

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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2020, 12:43:57 AM »

Guys - you should probably not waste your time with me.

I am back with her yet again.

why not post on the Bettering board, MrRight? come up with a game plan? nothing changes without changes.

it wouldnt mean that you have to stay, if, in your heart, you want to leave. you can work those things out.

but it doesnt make sense to try again without a very different plan.
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2020, 04:21:11 AM »

Thank you Gems and Once removed.

I know in my heart I need to break away and move on. I was very close to happiness when I was away and starting to make some connections. My head was really clearing.

My wife has said that if I am to stay with her long term we will need an extra room in the flat we are going to buy. In maybe 2 months when our sale is well progressed, we will need to find such a flat and it is at this stage I will need to speak up.

Telling her I will be moving on could trigger major disregulation - some thing I fear as I will be still in her power, as it were.

My agenda in coming back is to be here and help with the sale of the house - for her the agenda is re-uniting as a couple.

I have a feeling that when the times comes I will say I am not sure - and to go for a smaller flat, as we had already discussed a smaller flat would accomodate us if we are clever with the way we use space.

Buying a bigger flat will involve her in spending her savings - and I want to avoid that - plus I dont want any obligations on me (ie just because she has used her savings I have to stay with her)

I am sure this must sound very wishy washy - typical of me - but would welcome any advice on how to handle this as it seems very tricky - a balancing act.
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2020, 12:14:01 PM »

My agenda in coming back is to be here and help with the sale of the house - for her the agenda is re-uniting as a couple.

I have a feeling that when the times comes I will say I am not sure

MrRight, i say this gently: your agenda is deceptive...possibly to both of you.

Excerpt
Telling her I will be moving on could trigger major disregulation - some thing I fear as I will be still in her power, as it were.

if the shoe were on the other foot, how would you react? how would anyone? she will feel lied to and tricked, into making important decisions, based on information given to her.

Excerpt
I am sure this must sound very wishy washy - typical of me - but would welcome any advice on how to handle this as it seems very tricky - a balancing act.

i think that the plan is likely to come back to bite both of you.

a member here once said that good mental health is about making hard, but necessary choices.

when you think of your values, what is the hard, necessary choice here?
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2020, 03:57:13 PM »

MrRight, i say this gently: your agenda is deceptive...possibly to both of you.

if the shoe were on the other foot, how would you react? how would anyone? she will feel lied to and tricked, into making important decisions, based on information given to her.

i think that the plan is likely to come back to bite both of you.

a member here once said that good mental health is about making hard, but necessary choices.

when you think of your values, what is the hard, necessary choice here?

Yes I know what you mean.

Yet I have several months to get through living with her while this all goes through.

She sometime says - you will leave me again.

And on the other hand she insists I am simply back.

Frankly - when the time comes to start looking for flats - that will be my opportunity to speak up and say the truth. I fear that it may lead to major trouble - but the alternative could lead to even greater trouble.

But ...

She is not one who will accept being opposed when she has me in her power - she will one way or another force me into backing down - it will be 4 in the morning and I will be exhausted - she will keep this up until I do a U-turn and I will be begging for sleep - and she has the stamina to keep this up for weeks on end until she wins and she always does win.

Now - can you see why my way is so tempting?

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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2020, 11:32:14 PM »

Excerpt
Now - can you see why my way is so tempting?

of course i can.

correct me where im wrong: it seems like there have been a series of choices here, that are actively sending a particular message.

going to the house to prepare it for sale has entailed staying there, hugging, engaging in hypotheticals about getting back together, in effect leading her on about doing so, and full on getting back together.

im not trying to kick you while youre down, MrRight. im trying to better understand how this has played out.

what is the power she holds over you? are you afraid of her (no judgment)? if so, of what, specifically, and isnt the path youre taking particularly likely to cause her to blow? isnt it likely to make a potentially simple divorce far more complicated?

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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2020, 03:20:25 AM »

of course i can.

correct me where im wrong: it seems like there have been a series of choices here, that are actively sending a particular message.

going to the house to prepare it for sale has entailed staying there, hugging, engaging in hypotheticals about getting back together, in effect leading her on about doing so, and full on getting back together.

im not trying to kick you while youre down, MrRight. im trying to better understand how this has played out.

what is the power she holds over you? are you afraid of her (no judgment)? if so, of what, specifically, and isnt the path youre taking particularly likely to cause her to blow? isnt it likely to make a potentially simple divorce far more complicated?



Yes I am afraid of her. Now that I am back things are relatively bearable - her fuse is easily lit which is one reason I left in the first place. The household also does not function unless everything is how she wants it to be.

I suppose the power she holds over me is really based on all my obligations - mainly financial - which is really keeping me in this situation. Which is why I need to get this house sold.

I think my way forward would be to avoid committing myself to anything and be as neutral as I can when she implies my return is permanent.

I run my business from home - so she kind of has me where she wants me once more.

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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2020, 02:31:41 PM »

I think it would help you tremendously if you fine a therapist that is familiar with BPD. I also think you need an attorney. If you don’t have your agreement on paper, she could change her mind and she will if it keeps you connected.
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2020, 03:21:05 PM »

Excerpt
Yes I am afraid of her. Now that I am back things are relatively bearable - her fuse is easily lit which is one reason I left in the first place.

Hey Mr. R, Look at what you are saying, which to me is a red flag  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post).  I should know, because I was afraid of my BPDxW.  I'm sure you're correct that her fuse is easily lit, because those w/BPD have a hair-trigger anger response.  I called it walking through a mine field in which the mine locations are always shifting!   One of the components of F-O-G is Fear, which is one of the ways in which a pwBPD manipulates us Nons, along with Obligation and Guilt.  Don't let her twist your arm through Fear.

What would you say to a friend who described this scenario?  Worth thinking about.

LJ

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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2020, 03:20:02 AM »

Thanks guys - all your comments are correct.

There is an added twist to this whole thing - the work I currently do 10+ hours a day - in front of a pc - I hate it. I need to get free of that too. It would be ok maybe 3-4 hours a day. But financially I am tied in to this lifestyle for now at least until the house sells.

The buyers have a surveyor coming tomorrow so that really is a move in the right direction as my outgoings will fall 40% once the house is sold.

For now we are getting on but only because I am complying.
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2020, 03:07:00 AM »

OK guys I am signing off for now.

I will keep you informed once we have moved.

Things should be a lot clearer then and I will hope to have some positive news about my situation.

Take care and keep safe all.
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