Help I don't know what to do

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everyone.  I honestly don't know what to say or how to say it.  I guess I should start by saying that I believe my wife has BPD.  She has been involved in my life off and on for 9 years.  We had a brief relationship 9 years ago and it ended, but I would always hear back from her randomly for a couple of years.  I won't lie, it was love at first sight for me, but something scared me off about the intensity she felt toward me.  I didn't hear from her for a couple years then out of nowhere one day I got a text from her.  I replied back and that started what I consider our relationship.  It has felt like an emotional rollercoaster, but initially it was mostly a wonderful relationship.

I ended up moving in with her 3 1/2 years ago.   Everything was great for the first 2 years living together.   I always knew she had some type of mental health problems, but I suspected it was anxiety and bipolar disorder.  After living together almost two years she just blew up one day and told me to pack my stuff and get out.  Right then, no time allowed to think about it, no time to plan how to move out.  It was over nothing.  It was so insignificant I can't even remember what she was upset about.  On such short notice I needed help, so I had to text my family.  My mother asked why and I said that "Jane" (not real name) was acting crazy for no reason.  Within a week or so I had moved back in. This was the first time I had really had any fights with her.

Then about 4-6 mths later the same thing happened.  She blew up over something I considered insignificant and kicked my out again.  This time I stayed out, but tried to date her for a couple of mths.  She always wanted me back.  I ended up taking a job out of state, but we had gotten back together not long after.  It was then I learned that during that time she had met someone who was supposedly my best friend and within 30 min of meeting them she slept with him.  I loved her so I told her I could get past that, but she always insisted there was nothing to forgive because during that brief time we were broke up.  

Fast forward a few mths and we had been back on/off over and over again.  She always accused me of lying and cheating, although I never had.  Then once we were broke up for a couple of mths I went on a date with someone else.  It was a disaster because I still loved "Jane".  I got back with "Jane" and admitted I went on a date.  That was a mistake.  That seemed to cause me problems later down the road.

After a little more time we got married.  I married her because I truly love her and chose to deal with her impulsiveness, paranoia, constant accusations, etc.  Because of Covid, I was away in another state waiting for a job to open up close to her.  We would see each other on weekends during this time.  She was constantly going from loving me to hating me.  It seemed to be getting worse.  Her trust of me continued to decline.  She began waking up early and going through my phone.  She would make mountains out of mole hills.  My boss would text me about something work related and she would think I was sleeping with my boss.  If I didn't answer my phone every single time she called it was because I was cheating.   She would always say she heard women in the background and no one would be there.  

I finally got the job transfer and my co-workers had a going away dinner.  It was from 6:00-7:30 after work.  She blew a gasket and accused me of cheating on her because I didn't answer the 50 times she called me during that hour and a half.  

We got a house together after I changed jobs and it was more of the same.  She accused me of lying and cheating constantly.  I was walking on eggshells.  For the record I have been 100% faithful to my wife.  I love her more than anything, but I don't know what to do.  One month ago we were laying in bed and all of the sudden she flew into a fit of rage accusing me of cheating.  She got physical and verbally abusive like she normally does, but since she is only 100 pounds I just deal with it.  Never once have I grabbed her or put a hand on her.   During that fight she just got up and left.   I haven't seen her since.  I got served for divorce last week, but she hasn't spoken to me.  She has me blocked so I can't talk to her.  

It's been really hard on me and I am leaving out tons and tons of stuff.  I broke down last Friday after getting served and ended up in the office of an LCSW for 4 hours.  He told me to get the book "I hate you. Don't leave me".  I also checked out the DSM and she had all 9 criteria for diagnosis.  Sunday night I ended up in the emergency room with heart problems that were stress related.   I ended up getting prescribed beta blockers and Xanax.  

I love my wife dearly.  I just want us to go together and get therapy.  How can she just leave me like that.  I know I described most of the bad, but 90% of the time it was great.  But lately her trust has declined.  Also, my wife is an LCSW.   She has completely cut me off without any way to resolve this or get closure.  

[WorriedHusband]

Hello everyone.  I honestly don't know what to say or how to say it.  I guess I should start by saying that I believe my wife has BPD.  She has been involved in my life off and on for 9 years.  We had a brief relationship 9 years ago and it ended, but I would always hear back from her randomly for a couple of years.  I won't lie, it was love at first sight for me, but something scared me off about the intensity she felt toward me.  I didn't hear from her for a couple years then out of nowhere one day I got a text from her.  I replied back and that started what I consider our relationship.  It has felt like an emotional rollercoaster, but initially it was mostly a wonderful relationship.

I ended up moving in with her 3 1/2 years ago.   Everything was great for the first 2 years living together.   I always knew she had some type of mental health problems, but I suspected it was anxiety and bipolar disorder.  After living together almost two years she just blew up one day and told me to pack my stuff and get out.  Right then, no time allowed to think about it, no time to plan how to move out.  It was over nothing.  It was so insignificant I can't even remember what she was upset about.  On such short notice I needed help, so I had to text my family.  My mother asked why and I said that "Jane" (not real name) was acting crazy for no reason.  Within a week or so I had moved back in. This was the first time I had really had any fights with her.

Then about 4-6 mths later the same thing happened.  She blew up over something I considered insignificant and kicked my out again.  This time I stayed out, but tried to date her for a couple of mths.  She always wanted me back.  I ended up taking a job out of state, but we had gotten back together not long after.  It was then I learned that during that time she had met someone who was supposedly my best friend and within 30 min of meeting them she slept with him.  I loved her so I told her I could get past that, but she always insisted there was nothing to forgive because during that brief time we were broke up.  

Fast forward a few mths and we had been back on/off over and over again.  She always accused me of lying and cheating, although I never had.  Then once we were broke up for a couple of mths I went on a date with someone else.  It was a disaster because I still loved "Jane".  I got back with "Jane" and admitted I went on a date.  That was a mistake.  That seemed to cause me problems later down the road.

After a little more time we got married.  I married her because I truly love her and chose to deal with her impulsiveness, paranoia, constant accusations, etc.  Because of Covid, I was away in another state waiting for a job to open up close to her.  We would see each other on weekends during this time.  She was constantly going from loving me to hating me.  It seemed to be getting worse.  Her trust of me continued to decline.  She began waking up early and going through my phone.  She would make mountains out of mole hills.  My boss would text me about something work related and she would think I was sleeping with my boss.  If I didn't answer my phone every single time she called it was because I was cheating.   She would always say she heard women in the background and no one would be there.  

I finally got the job transfer and my co-workers had a going away dinner.  It was from 6:00-7:30 after work.  She blew a gasket and accused me of cheating on her because I didn't answer the 50 times she called me during that hour and a half.  

We got a house together after I changed jobs and it was more of the same.  She accused me of lying and cheating constantly.  I was walking on eggshells.  For the record I have been 100% faithful to my wife.  I love her more than anything, but I don't know what to do.  One month ago we were laying in bed and all of the sudden she flew into a fit of rage accusing me of cheating.  She got physical and verbally abusive like she normally does, but since she is only 100 pounds I just deal with it.  Never once have I grabbed her or put a hand on her.   During that fight she just got up and left.   I haven't seen her since.  I got served for divorce last week, but she hasn't spoken to me.  She has me blocked so I can't talk to her.  

It's been really hard on me and I am leaving out tons and tons of stuff.  I broke down last Friday after getting served and ended up in the office of an LCSW for 4 hours.  He told me to get the book "I hate you. Don't leave me".  I also checked out the DSM and she had all 9 criteria for diagnosis.  Sunday night I ended up in the emergency room with heart problems that were stress related.   I ended up getting prescribed beta blockers and Xanax.  

I love my wife dearly.  I just want us to go together and get therapy.  How can she just leave me like that.  I know I described most of the bad, but 90% of the time it was great.  But lately her trust has declined.  Also, my wife is an LCSW.   She has completely cut me off without any way to resolve this or get closure.  

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[WorriedHusband]

Something else I should add is that my wife was abandoned by her mother and raised by her father.  She was sexually abused

[WorriedHusband]

Something else I should add is that my wife was abandoned by her mother and raised by her father.  She was sexually abused

I know this all wasn’t worded well. I’ll admit that I am devastated.  I left out so much.    I’m so shocked and hurt that it’s hard for me to get my thoughts together on this. 

She has been baiting me a lot lately trying to get me to fight.  She constantly tears me down and has no remorse about it.  She keeps calling me a narcissist, liar, and cheater. 

The big phrase she always uses is that I’m gaslighting her.  She has a tendency to misremember things and it’s always in her favor. 

Actually this is all pretty new    Our relationship was not this bad until I’d say the past 6-12 mths.  I could see it starting to turn 12-15 mths ago, but it was still good.  Then the last 6mths has been hard. 

I feel like I’m her scapegoat and she won’t take responsibility for anything. I believe if I could get her to talk to me I believe we could repair this.  We could get therapy as a couple. 

My family says I should let her leave.  My therapist that I only recently started seeing has now started leaning that way too.  He thinks I need to worry more about myself at this point.

[WorriedHusband]

I could really use some advice here if anyone can advise me.  I am really lost.  She has been gone now for what will be 5 weeks tomorrow.  I haven't talked to her and she has blocked my.  She has completely detached from me.  I have been served divorce papers and really am lost.  At this point, I think I have lost her for good.  It really sucks to have someone in your life for this long and then poof, one little right over nothing and she is gone.  No closure, no anything.   
I am really worried about her and am starting to accept that I think I have lost her for good.  But I love her so much that I do want her to get help and possible learn to trust.  I have thought about reaching out to her son.  He just graduated with his masters in social work and is doing therapy at the moment, but I don't know if doing that will make it worse or not.

[kells76]

Hey WorriedHusband, welcome to the boards!

Even though this isn't my "home board" (I'm usually over on Family Law), I just wanted you to know that you're seen here, and you're not alone. Others whose "home" is here on Bettering will be along, too.

I hear how much you care for your W and how much you're going through. This isn't how you wanted things to happen, and it's not what you want for her, or you. I hear you trying to sort through what to do in this blindsiding situation, as you deal with your shock, hurt, and devastation.

This is heartbreaking stuff -- the sudden, in a way, change; the break; the departure, the not knowing. My sister's ex-husband had a psychotic break a couple of years ago and disappeared for almost a week. It's so hard not knowing where they are, wondering if they are ok.

My family says I should let her leave.  My therapist that I only recently started seeing has now started leaning that way too.  He thinks I need to worry more about myself at this point.

That's great that you have a therapist for you. How often are you talking with him? What has he suggested in terms of you taking care of you?

From what I've read on these boards, it's not unlikely for your W to perhaps connect with you again. So, don't lose heart. But if and when she does, be the best you that you can be. That could mean learning some new and unintuitive ways of communication. The folks on this board are pros at sharing their knowledge and talking with you about new ways forward. There aren't any guarantees, but because the only person we can control is us, then in relationships we can make changes all on our own that impact the dynamic, whether or not the other person changes.

WH, we are GLAD you are here, despite the grief and pain that brings you. I hope you stick around...

cheers;

kells76

[WorriedHusband]

Thank you for the reply Kells76. 

I was served last Thursday and just broke down.  Luckily I work in the health care field and right beside my office is the social work office.  On Friday, I went over and walked away several times when a gentleman asked if he could help.  He is an LCSW, like my wife, and he spoke with me for 4 hours.  I ended up going back to him Monday for an hour, Wednesday for an hour, and I will be seeing him again tomorrow. 

He was very supportive on Friday or maybe I should say understanding that I want to stay with her.  I'll be honest, I just feel exhausted from all the crying.  Then I ended up in the emergency room Sunday night with extreme tachycardia.  My resting heart rate which is usually in the 60s was up in the 130s and even higher.  Sunday was when I finally broke down and told my family what was going on after leaving them in the dark for the past month.  I know how they feel about her and I didn't want them to think any worse of her if she did come back.  On Monday, I told my therapist about the ER visit and what my parents had told me about letting her go.  He then told me that was good advice.   

But I just can't let her go.  We have so much history and I love her so much.  Honestly she is my world.  I live far away from any family and with my relationship with her she was my best friend.  So not only did she just leave and cut me off, but I lost my best friend, my social support, and my wife all at once.  I don't understand how she could just cut me off completely, block me, file for divorce, and get a mutual restraining order/no contact order.  It is like I have lost my entire world and I have no closure.  I don't want a divorce.  I just want my wife back. 

[Goosey]

It’s a big world.
And most won’t abuse you in it.
Tough call. Been there.
All of it sucks.
And you most likely have no control of it.
You may think you do because of the interaction but it is lopsided if you had the ability to see from above.
Can’t tell you how many times during the insane years when  I would spew out my fears and anguish and defense of my partner to professionals and they would calmly say “ all I hear is about her, I want to hear about you “.
It’s truth. And it takes a lot of time. Think about you. It felt selfish for me for years. Now it’s real.
I am me. A piece of crap most times haha but I know I’m not what I was trained to think I was.
Just a human with faults and some decency.
I would say don’t agonize but you will, we all did.
Just believe me it will get slowly better in your head. 

[WorriedHusband]

The last thing she said to me before blocking me was that she wouldn’t see anyone else until the divorce is over.  I didn’t think she would really file.  Now I suspect she is with another man. 

Im devastated.  How could she just throw away everything and dispose of me like a piece of garbage

[Goosey]

First off.
Your not a piece of garbage.
Take a breather.
Watch some reruns.
Stretch and yawn.
Go out and yell at the clouds.
Listen to your voice. Not theirs.

[Goosey]

And who the f — would say to their divorcing other that they wouldn’t see others till divorce is over. 
It’s like a twist of the knife and of course they are already seeing others because ALWAYS assume they are lying.
Sorry but I get worked up when I see the same pattern.
I was in it. It’s fu—-ing HELL.
But you will get through it.
You’ll go round and round. And then be like ? How did I survive that? But you will.
Assume they are always lying.
Period.
Because they are.

[WorriedHusband]

Honestly, I just want some advice on how to to advice my wife that I’m a faithful husband. She has it in her mind that I’m unfaithful when nothing could be further from the truth. Should I reach out to the son?  
It just seems to me that if she could only see that I’m telling the truth she would return to me. Now that I have realized what BPD  is and that she has it I think I know how to deal with it. If only I had known before I would have handled things so differently. Before I I always JADED her false accusations

[WorriedHusband]

I’ll admit I’m disappointed.  So many  views, but so few comments.   Being honest I’m crushed and in crisis mode.  Can anyone direct me to a site where I’ll actually get feedback

[GaGrl]

Your wife is telling you what she needs to construct so that she is the one "in the right." If she is BPD, she can't accept responsibility for her behavior and must project the blame to others - - you are the most intimate target. Does that make sense to you?

[WorriedHusband]

No, I am new to realizing she has BPD.  I don’t know what that means.  Also, after reflection  she is definitively uBPD.  She fits all nine criteria.  Help me understand

[WorriedHusband]

I love my wife dearly and just want to get back where we were. I can work on the other things once she is back

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear WH-  (sorry for the length of this, hoping you find some clarification?)

I am deeply sorry for the intense pain and confusion you’re experiencing.  Most of us arrive on these boards completely lost.  And if you’re noticing many views of your posts, but not many responses, that’s likely the reason why... people will be able to easily empathize with your pain, but most will feel they have no wisdom to provide.  Sadly, there’s no magic pill for us when we first arrive... or for some time after.  But my friend, it will get better.  I assure you.

I can only speak from personal experience, my “best” understanding of BPD/NPD, and the behaviors I experienced from my exH (19 years), and more recently my exUBPD/NPDbf (6.5 years).  And from pieces I’ve picked up from your posting. 

About 3.5 years into my relationship with my exBF, I googled “unprovoked rage in men”, and I landed here.  I was astounded.
I read like a fiend.  Literally devoured the information. There are a ton of resources on this board so that you can gain an understanding of how that “list of 9 criteria” translate into behaviors and meaningful  information.  Very eye-opening, my friend.  At least it was to me.

I came to understand that the things my exBF (And exH) accused ME of, were actually things my partners were doing... that’s the “projection”.  A very hard and painful thing to swallow as a possibility.  You KNOW you’ve been faithful.  And chances are, so does your W.  She looked through your phone... did she allow you to look through hers?  Readily and Without argument? 

Whatever she may or may not have been doing, her actions were not necessarily against you (that’s part of the disorder), but were more to “soothe” herself.  And although if she did indeed stray, she was still completely WRONG, and even worse, she is blaming YOU. And sad for her, she’s apparently got no understanding or an inability to take responsibility for her actions.  She’ll always find a way to blame you.  Because she’s clearly never done the work to develop her self-awareness.  That much is clear.  And you cannot “fix” or heal her.  You’d be surprised at the number of disordered people who are therapists.

The very saddest thing I ever learned is that I could not love my BPD/NPD partner to wellness.  They have to own up to their illness and seek active and intense therapy on their own.  Couples T doesn’t do it.  You didn’t make her like this, and you cannot cure her.

WH-  please know, I am not trying to hurt you.  We have to be painfully honest with one another here.  That’s the only way to gain an understanding of why we feel the way we/you do.

There is generally a deep sense of loss that accompanies the “end” of these relationships and it feels like an end like nothing else we’ve ever experienced.  My personal take on this (after lots of soul searching about my own situation) related directly to the ISOLATION (NOT pandemic-related) that my exBF engaged in.  We come to believe (however based in fact or not) that our partners are “our world”.  I did...  My exBF did his darnedest to keep me AWAY (through rages, fits, guilting, belittling, jealously, faking illnesses, you name it) from anyone and everyone who I cared for and who care for me.  And in the end I felt completely alone when we broke up.  I had kept the abuse a dark secret.  So yea, Completely alone, and I felt so broken... until I felt myself breathe later that night.  And in these almost 9 months of pure relief after...

My suggestions to you, WH... keep you head where your heels are... meaning try not to get ahead of yourself.  Your health MUST be priority number ONE right now.  Breathe for yourself. 

Gather people who love and support you around you.  Speak on the phone, via FaceTime, zoom, have lunch, whatever is possible for you.  If you need a medical leave from work for your health and well-being, drop your pride and take it.  Perhaps go see your family if you feel they will envelop you with love and support.  If not, visit old friends who will.  Close your eyes and call on your spiritual side, whatever form that takes.  Just try to do things FOR you... to raise you up a bit and help you Through this brutal period.

And keep posting here.

Things will become clearer.  Disregard any name-calling that may come through.  You know who you are.  Remember “projection”... that’s on her NOT you.  And again my friend, please remember, please breathe and keep your head where your feet are.

This is just a start.  To gain an understanding.  Explore the boards.  Read other posts.  And if you feel she may come back (and she very well may), you’ll have communication tools at your disposal to learn and use to improve future interaction if you decide that’s  how you wish to proceed.  We can discuss more about that later.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[WorriedHusband]

Your wife is telling you what she needs to construct so that she is the one "in the right." If she is BPD, she can't accept responsibility for her behavior and must project the blame to others - - you are the most intimate target. Does that make sense to you?

GaGrl, what do you mean by she needs to construct so that she is the one in the right?   It's really ironic now that I finally realize what is wrong with her.   She always and I mean always accused me of lying and cheating.  The other big thing with her was that she was saying that I was gaslighting her and she always called me defensive.  Honestly, I would get defensive because I was always being falsely accused

[WorriedHusband]

Dear WH-  (sorry for the length of this, hoping you find some clarification?)

I am deeply sorry for the intense pain and confusion you’re experiencing.  Most of us arrive on these boards completely lost.  And if you’re noticing many views of your posts, but not many responses, that’s likely the reason why... people will be able to easily empathize with your pain, but most will feel they have no wisdom to provide.  Sadly, there’s no magic pill for us when we first arrive... or for some time after.  But my friend, it will get better.  I assure you.

I can only speak from personal experience, my “best” understanding of BPD/NPD, and the behaviors I experienced from my exH (19 years), and more recently my exUBPD/NPDbf (6.5 years).  And from pieces I’ve picked up from your posting.  

About 3.5 years into my relationship with my exBF, I googled “unprovoked rage in men”, and I landed here.  I was astounded.
I read like a fiend.  Literally devoured the information. There are a ton of resources on this board so that you can gain an understanding of how that “list of 9 criteria” translate into behaviors and meaningful  information.  Very eye-opening, my friend.  At least it was to me.

I came to understand that the things my exBF (And exH) accused ME of, were actually things my partners were doing... that’s the “projection”.  A very hard and painful thing to swallow as a possibility.  You KNOW you’ve been faithful.  And chances are, so does your W.  She looked through your phone... did she allow you to look through hers?  Readily and Without argument?  

Whatever she may or may not have been doing, her actions were not necessarily against you (that’s part of the disorder), but were more to “soothe” herself.  And although if she did indeed stray, she was still completely WRONG, and even worse, she is blaming YOU. And sad for her, she’s apparently got no understanding or an inability to take responsibility for her actions.  She’ll always find a way to blame you.  Because she’s clearly never done the work to develop her self-awareness.  That much is clear.  And you cannot “fix” or heal her.  You’d be surprised at the number of disordered people who are therapists.

The very saddest thing I ever learned is that I could not love my BPD/NPD partner to wellness.  They have to own up to their illness and seek active and intense therapy on their own.  Couples T doesn’t do it.  You didn’t make her like this, and you cannot cure her.

WH-  please know, I am not trying to hurt you.  We have to be painfully honest with one another here.  That’s the only way to gain an understanding of why we feel the way we/you do.

There is generally a deep sense of loss that accompanies the “end” of these relationships and it feels like an end like nothing else we’ve ever experienced.  My personal take on this (after lots of soul searching about my own situation) related directly to the ISOLATION (NOT pandemic-related) that my exBF engaged in.  We come to believe (however based in fact or not) that our partners are “our world”.  I did...  My exBF did his darnedest to keep me AWAY (through rages, fits, guilting, belittling, jealously, faking illnesses, you name it) from anyone and everyone who I cared for and who care for me.  And in the end I felt completely alone when we broke up.  I had kept the abuse a dark secret.  So yea, Completely alone, and I felt so broken... until I felt myself breathe later that night.  And in these almost 9 months of pure relief after...

My suggestions to you, WH... keep you head where your heels are... meaning try not to get ahead of yourself.  Your health MUST be priority number ONE right now.  Breathe for yourself.  

Gather people who love and support you around you.  Speak on the phone, via FaceTime, zoom, have lunch, whatever is possible for you.  If you need a medical leave from work for your health and well-being, drop your pride and take it.  Perhaps go see your family if you feel they will envelop you with love and support.  If not, visit old friends who will.  Close your eyes and call on your spiritual side, whatever form that takes.  Just try to do things FOR you... to raise you up a bit and help you Through this brutal period.

And keep posting here.

Things will become clearer.  Disregard any name-calling that may come through.  You know who you are.  Remember “projection”... that’s on her NOT you.  And again my friend, please remember, please breathe and keep your head where your feet are.

This is just a start.  To gain an understanding.  Explore the boards.  Read other posts.  And if you feel she may come back (and she very well may), you’ll have communication tools at your disposal to learn and use to improve future interaction if you decide that’s  how you wish to proceed.  We can discuss more about that later.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Gemsforeyes, thank you for posting this.  I really needed to hear this.  I'm so confused and hurt right now.  The good news is that I have lost 14 pounds in the last 5 weeks.  I had been trying to lose weight for a while and wow does it really come off fast when you get depressed.  

I have another therapy appt today.   He seems to have had a lot of experience with BPD and his experiences have not been that good.  He states that he thought he had a few success stories of couples with BPD, but he doesn't really know what happened after they left therapy.  He actually echoes a lot of what you are saying here.  He actually told me last visit that some people are just "too f'd to fix".   I don't want to accept that right now.  I am trying to cling on to a little hope.  I need some hope right now.  I'm pretty much spiraling.  It feels like I have fallen off of a cliff and every once in a while I catch myself on a ledge or something then I fall more then catch myself again.  It feels like I'm starting to run out of things to grab to catch myself anymore.

[GaGrl]

GaGrl, what do you mean by she needs to construct so that she is the one in the right?   It's really ironic now that I finally realize what is wrong with her.   She always and I mean always accused me of lying and cheating.  The other big thing with her was that she was saying that I was gaslighting her and she always called me defensive.  Honestly, I would get defensive because I was always being falsely accused

Your wife probably isn't consciously trying to "be in the right" , but people with BPD do not easily accept blame, responsibility, or accountability for their actions, behavior, and words.

So when she makes a decision to do something that is hurtful to others, her emotional makeup "needs" to find a way to blame someone else for that decision. That way, she does not feel the pain of being ashamed of what she did.

[kells76]

WH, so good to hear from you again. Kudos to you for reaching out for support from your family, therapist, and us here in the support group. You're in such a difficult time and yet I hear from what you're doing that you want to keep going, want to understand.

I read what you shared here:

He actually told me last visit that some people are just "too f'd to fix".   I don't want to accept that right now.  I am trying to cling on to a little hope.  I need some hope right now.  I'm pretty much spiraling.  It feels like I have fallen off of a cliff and every once in a while I catch myself on a ledge or something then I fall more then catch myself again.  It feels like I'm starting to run out of things to grab to catch myself anymore.

It is hard to know at this point whether your W will be receptive to long-term work or not. She may be, and that is certainly something worthwhile to hope and pray for.

If your relationship with her is going to continue, I want to encourage you that a key factor is, believe it or not, your focus on YOUR health (emotional, mental, physical, spiritual). Relationships with pwBPD (people with BPD, diagnosed or not), require SO much strength and non-intuitive tools. I want to gently suggest that a way to have the most possible hope is to focus on YOU. How can you be the best WH you can be? Can you find ways to have emotional calm, do great self care, learn about boundaries? For your marriage to continue (and again, there are no guarantees, just need to say that), you would need to care for yourself so that you can be the healthiest husband possible. It's like on airplanes: you can't help the person next to you with their oxygen, if you haven't put on your own mask, first. It's not selfish to make sure you are in a stable, caring, healthy place first. That's a strong foundation to work from.

So, WH... like Gemsforeyes mentioned, and as counter-intuitive as it may seem, what are some steps you can take today, or this weekend, to care for yourself:

My suggestions to you, WH... keep you head where your heels are... meaning try not to get ahead of yourself.  Your health MUST be priority number ONE right now.  Breathe for yourself.  

Gather people who love and support you around you.  Speak on the phone, via FaceTime, zoom, have lunch, whatever is possible for you.  If you need a medical leave from work for your health and well-being, drop your pride and take it.  Perhaps go see your family if you feel they will envelop you with love and support.  If not, visit old friends who will.  Close your eyes and call on your spiritual side, whatever form that takes.  Just try to do things FOR you... to raise you up a bit and help you Through this brutal period.

And keep posting here.

It's not selfish, it's actually a way of caring for you, and, hopefully, your W. Does that sort of make sense? That the best place for you to be, if you are interested in saving your relationship (and I hear the love and care you have for your W), is to be a strong, healthy YOU.

Keep posting whenever feels right for you... we will be here!

cheers;

kells76

[WorriedHusband]

Your wife probably isn't consciously trying to "be in the right" , but people with BPD do not easily accept blame, responsibility, or accountability for their actions, behavior, and words.

So when she makes a decision to do something that is hurtful to others, her emotional makeup "needs" to find a way to blame someone else for that decision. That way, she does not feel the pain of being ashamed of what she did.

That makes sense.  The first time she kicked me out I wouldn't say that we broke up.  I moved back in rather quickly, but the second time she kicked me out I was thinking that I can't keep living this way.  So we stayed separated for a little while.  This time when separated she actually did something so impulsive that it really really hurt me.  She met who I thought was my best friend and within 30 min of meeting him she slept with him.  I was devastated.  We were broke up, but doing it with that person really hurt me.  She blamed my mother for it actually.  I would say that this break up was when the cycle really started.  Although she had  very rare emotional outburst before this, this seemed to be when our relationship started to sour.  That is also when she started to think that I cheated on her.  She surrounded herself by people that told her that the only reason I took her back was because I must have been doing the same thing.   I hadn't been.  I couldn't think of dating or seeing anyone else, but I could never convince her of that.  That seems to be when the paranoia got worse

[WorriedHusband]

Your wife probably isn't consciously trying to "be in the right" , but people with BPD do not easily accept blame, responsibility, or accountability for their actions, behavior, and words.

So when she makes a decision to do something that is hurtful to others, her emotional makeup "needs" to find a way to blame someone else for that decision. That way, she does not feel the pain of being ashamed of what she did.

That's the thing.  She would always say that about me. She would say that I have to be right about everything.  What I was actually doing was JADE.  To her, when I would JADE it was me being defensive, trying to be right, and gaslighting.  It's like you are darned if you do and darned if you don't.  

If you don't JADE, then what do you do when you are constantly being accused of cheating, lying, and gaslighting.  Especially the cheating accusations.  Don't you have to explain that you aren't?  

Also, can anyone tell me if it's common to be blocked by someone with BPD.  I would say over the last 6-12 mths she started doing this.  She would get made at me and then block me for a day or so then unblock me.  One time, after she was calmed down I told her that made me feel badly when she did that.  She then told me that she would sometimes do it so she wouldn't contact me for her own sanity.  Now, I think she has me blocked for an entirely different reason.  I think she is detaching.   Can any explain more about a BPD person detaching or point me to a good thread about this?

Looking back on everything now I could have done things so differently.  I so regret that I didn't go to a therapist sooner who could have told me long ago what I am dealing with.  Had I only known then I thing things would be different.  I have learned so much the past month, but I am afraid it's too late

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi WorriedHusband:
I'm so sorry for what you are going through.  I hear that you are hurting right now.  Like others have mentioned, you have to take care of yourself right now.

If you don't JADE, then what do you do when you are constantly being accused of cheating, lying, and gaslighting.  Especially the cheating accusations.  Don't you have to explain that you aren't?      

You need to state the truth, then terminate the discussion.  You can validate "feeling", but NEVER validate false information.

SAMPLE OF WHAT TO SAY: "I love you.  I can see that you are angry, but I have never cheated.  I refuse to discuss this further" Then, you leave the room, etc.  If you you end up going for a walk, a drive, etc., then announce that you are leaving and then give them some clue that you will be in contact.  i.e. "I'll be back in an hour, or I'll text you in an hour"

Also, can anyone tell me if it's common to be blocked by someone with BPD.  I would say over the last 6-12 mths she started doing this.  

Yes!  It's very common and supports "The Silent Treatment"

I love my wife dearly.  I just want us to go together and get therapy.  How can she just leave me like that.  I know I described most of the bad, but 90% of the time it was great.

1.  She got physical and verbally abusive like she normally does, but since she is only 100 pounds I just deal with it.

2.  She always accused me of lying and cheating

3.  She was constantly going from loving me to hating me

4.  She began waking up early and going through my phone.

5.  If I didn't answer my phone every single time she called it was because I was cheating.

6.  She blew up over something I considered insignificant and kicked my out again.

7. she had met someone who was supposedly my best friend and within 30 min of meeting them she slept with him

8. The big phrase she always uses is that I’m gaslighting her.  She has a tendency to misremember things and it’s always in her favor.    

You say that everything was great 90% of the time, but looking at the 8 statements you made about problem behaviors, are you sure it was as good at you think it was?

I feel like I’m her scapegoat and she won’t take responsibility for anything. I believe if I could get her to talk to me I believe we could repair this.  We could get therapy as a couple.    

In order to repair things, she has to be able to see herself as at least part of the problem. Without that, couple's therapy won't work.  You could choose to radically accept her behaviors and anticipate that the problem behaviors will continue to happen down the road, perhaps with a few remissions.  

The only person you can change and control is yourself.  What's in your power is to learn communication skills that can make it better for you and the way you interact and react to her.

I have thought about reaching out to her son.  He just graduated with his masters in social work and is doing therapy at the moment, but I don't know if doing that will make it worse or not.    

Be very cautions about interacting with her son.  I suggest you look over the workshop below on Drama Triangles.  Getting a family member in the middle can make things worse, so be careful.
KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE

I don't understand how she could just cut me off completely, block me, file for divorce, and get a mutual restraining order/no contact order.

 I don't know where you live, but where I live, a temporary restraining order is generally issued, even if it's based upon lies.  Then, you have a chance to go to a court date and present your facts and perhaps a more permanent restraining order is NOT granted.

For the moment, best to stay away, so you won't be jailed.  Work on yourself and prepare for a possible court date to defend yourself regarding the restraining order.  Then, decide how to proceed.

[WorriedHusband]

Hi WorriedHusband:
I'm so sorry for what you are going through.  I hear that you are hurting right now.  Like others have mentioned, you have to take care of yourself right now.
You need to state the truth, then terminate the discussion.  You can validate "feeling", but NEVER validate false information.

SAMPLE OF WHAT TO SAY: "I love you.  I can see that you are angry, but I have never cheated.  I refuse to discuss this further" Then, you leave the room, etc.  If you you end up going for a walk, a drive, etc., then announce that you are leaving and then give them some clue that you will be in contact.  i.e. "I'll be back in an hour, or I'll text you in an hour"
 Yes!  It's very common and supports "The Silent Treatment"You say that everything was great 90% of the time, but looking at the 8 statements you made about problem behaviors, are you sure it was as good at you think it was?
 In order to repair things, she has to be able to see herself as at least part of the problem. Without that, couple's therapy won't work.  You could choose to radically accept her behaviors and anticipate that the problem behaviors will continue to happen down the road, perhaps with a few remissions.  

The only person you can change and control is yourself.  What's in your power is to learn communication skills that can make it better for you and the way you interact and react to her.
Be very cautions about interacting with her son.  I suggest you look over the workshop below on Drama Triangles.  Getting a family member in the middle can make things worse, so be careful.
KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE  I don't know where you live, but where I live, a temporary restraining order is generally issued, even if it's based upon lies.  Then, you have a chance to go to a court date and present your facts and perhaps a more permanent restraining order is NOT granted.

For the moment, best to stay away, so you won't be jailed.  Work on yourself and prepare for a possible court date to defend yourself regarding the restraining order.  Then, decide how to proceed.

NN, when I said 90% of the time it was good.  We had a long relationship and it just started going bad last year.  It really started last July when she kicked me out and I wouldn’t move back in for a while.  During this time she was frantic to get me back.  It was during this time that she was with another man. We weren’t split up long then got back together.  When we got back together that is when this all really started. She would say that I left her and I would correct her and say she kicked me out. It was not long after this time when she started being more paranoid, accusing me of lying/cheating, gaslighting, etc.  Prior to this we had a very amazing relationship except for the occasional emotional blowups (the two times she kicked me out). So her behavior like this has really started a year ago.  Then 6 mths ago it progressed to being worse then the 4-6 weeks before she left she had painted me black.

The only reason I am considering contacting her son is because I truly love her with all my heart.  She has been in my life 9 years!   At this point I’m starting to realize that I think I have lost her forever and I’m starting to at least come to terms with this.  Since I still love her with all my heart I want her to get help.  Contacting the son wouldn’t be for me to get her back.  She does tend to listen to him.  I’m really torn.  Regardless of whether I can get her back I still want her to seek treatment. I want her to be herself and have a chance to break this cycle of destruction. 

Is there any hope? 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Is there any hope? 

No one can predict an outcome.  BPD is complicated and there are generally multiple mental health issues at play, some of which can improve with some meds - at least improve to the point that a person is more receptive to therapy and be willing to accept at least some responsibility for their behaviors and be willing to work on things. 

Along with BPD behaviors, she could have something like bipolar in play.  It's possible that she will cycle out of her current state, at some point, as what appears to have happened in the past.  In that case, without any cooperative participation by her, with finding an official diagnosis & successful med and/or therapy, you can expect more episodes down the road (should you reconcile). 

What are you doing in regard to the restraining order?  Have you sought legal advice?  Is there a court date?

If you do end up speaking to her son, just be cautious and be sure that the restraining order doesn't include communication with family members.  It's hard to predict whether her son will have a frank discussion with you about his mom's mental health (and history of mental health issues).

You say she exhibits all 9 traits.  Has she recently attempted suicide or made threats?  She may have had an affair (but probably not per her version), other than that, what addictions or risky behaviors has she exhibited?

[WorriedHusband]

No one can predict an outcome.  BPD is complicated and there are generally multiple mental health issues at play, some of which can improve with some meds - at least improve to the point that a person is more receptive to therapy and be willing to accept at least some responsibility for their behaviors and be willing to work on things. 

Along with BPD behaviors, she could have something like bipolar in play.  It's possible that she will cycle out of her current state, at some point, as what appears to have happened in the past.  In that case, without any cooperative participation by her, with finding an official diagnosis & successful med and/or therapy, you can expect more episodes down the road (should you reconcile). 

What are you doing in regard to the restraining order?  Have you sought legal advice?  Is there a court date?

If you do end up speaking to her son, just be cautious and be sure that the restraining order doesn't include communication with family members.  It's hard to predict whether her son will have a frank discussion with you about his mom's mental health (and history of mental health issues).

You say she exhibits all 9 traits.  Has she recently attempted suicide or made threats?  She may have had an affair (but probably not per her version), other than that, what addictions or risky behaviors has she exhibited?

I had actually suspect bipolar disorder because I didn’t know about BPD until after she left.  As far as the restraining order I have been following it since I was served.  I’ll be sure to check to see if it includes family.  I was served on Oct 29th and I have a divorce hearing December 8th.    After served I only had a few days to respond to the court.  I couldn’t afford a lawyer.  Heck, we don’t have anything to split.  My letter to RHD court just stated I didn’t want a divorce and wanted to try therapy. 

She has made no suicide attempts I’m aware of but she has told me that she has thought of it often.

What do you mean that she might have had an affair but probably not her version?

She is addicted to clonazepam (which she needs) and Tramadol (she doesn’t need). She is prescribed 3 tramadol per day and I bet she is taking 7+ per day right now.  I’ve known her to take over 10.  I have got her off of it several times before and she realized she was better off without it, but in times of stress she starts back up again.  I would say the risky behaviors would likely include unprotected sex with people she doesn’t know.  I pray to god I’m wrong on this one.

She is incredibly impulsive. Up until August 2019 she had the same job for 8 years.   Since August she has had 4 job changes.  Actually after she left me she just up and quit the job her she had just started.

I’m really worried she is spiraling down and her disease is progressing.  I’m worried about my wife and think she definitely needs help.

[WorriedHusband]

I have thought about writing a blog basically detailing my journey with my wife, my discovery of her uBPD, and my desire to help her.  Really start from the beginning of our story all the way until know.   I would talk about what I learned of the disease and detail what leads me to believe my wife has it.  Then I can talk about how treatment would be a godsend.

It would be an anonymous blog of course but I could use a name I know my wife would find.  Even though she has me blocked I know she still stalks me over the net.  I could put in a reference to a blog I started on social media, but without giving away the location. Then no one would find it, but her Or I could just direct her son to it.

Since she is an LCSW, maybe it would open her eyes.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again Worried Husband:

What do you mean that she might have had an affair but probably not her version?    

If I understood what you previously wrote, your partner seemed to think that when she had sex with someone else, it was during a break-up.  I got the impression that from your perspective, it wasn't really a break-up.

I had actually suspect bipolar disorder because I didn’t know about BPD until after she left.  

 No one here can diagnose someone.  If someone gets an official BPD diagnosis, that doesn't mean they don't have concurrent mental health issues.  Most therapist might say that it sounds like someone has BPD traits, but they can't diagnose someone that isn't a client.

She is addicted to clonazepam (which she needs) and Tramadol (she doesn’t need). She is prescribed 3 tramadol per day and I bet she is taking 7+ per day right now.  I’ve known her to take over 10.  I have got her off of it several times before and she realized she was better off without it, but in times of stress she starts back up again.  

Both of those drugs are controlled substances, clonazepam in the benzo family and Tramado in the opioid family.  Is she getting these drugs from a legitimate physician?  The combo of these drugs is contraindicated.

I suspect the Clonazepam was prescribed for either anxiety or panic disorders, so that would indicate that she had been treated for a mental condition before.  This prescription can be bad for an addictive person, who uses it by itself to manage anxiety.  This med is intended to be an occasional tool to help with anxiety (hopefully just to supplement other nonaddictive meds and therapy).  When someone automatically uses it daily, they have to keep upping the dosage to get the result they want, and that leads to a problem with an addictive person.

Why did she start taking pain meds?  Wow, another addictive med.  Is she getting these meds from two different physicians?  Had she ever seen a psychiatrist?

I’m really worried she is spiraling down and her disease is progressing.  I’m worried about my wife and think she definitely needs help.    

Sounds like your partner may have struggled with anxiety for awhile, unless the benzo prescription is something recent.  Why hasn't she tried some of the nonbenzo meds that deals with anxiety?   A reputable physician wouldn't keep prescribing benzos alone, without prescribing some safer nonaddictive meds. If one physician is prescribing both meds, then got to wonder about that physician.

PS:  I just read in your thread on the conflicted board that you and your partner had recently moved and she had a new job, both of which she hated.  Stressful life changes can bring on major dysregulation.

[WorriedHusband]

Hi again Worried Husband:
If I understood what you previously wrote, your partner seemed to think that when she had sex with someone else, it was during a break-up.  I got the impression that from your perspective, it wasn't really a break-up.
  No one here can diagnose someone.  If someone gets an official BPD diagnosis, that doesn't mean they don't have concurrent mental health issues.  Most therapist might say that it sounds like someone has BPD traits, but they can't diagnose someone that isn't a client.
Both of those drugs are controlled substances, clonazepam in the benzo family and Tramado in the opioid family.  Is she getting these drugs from a legitimate physician?  The combo of these drugs is contraindicated.

I suspect the Clonazepam was prescribed for either anxiety or panic disorders, so that would indicate that she had been treated for a mental condition before.  This prescription can be bad for an addictive person, who uses it by itself to manage anxiety.  This med is intended to be an occasional tool to help with anxiety (hopefully just to supplement other nonaddictive meds and therapy).  When someone automatically uses it daily, they have to keep upping the dosage to get the result they want, and that leads to a problem with an addictive person.

Why did she start taking pain meds?  Wow, another addictive med.  Is she getting these meds from two different physicians?  Had she ever seen a psychiatrist?
Sounds like your partner may have struggled with anxiety for awhile, unless the benzo prescription is something recent.  Why hasn't she tried some of the nonbenzo meds that deals with anxiety?   A reputable physician wouldn't keep prescribing benzos alone, without prescribing some safer nonaddictive meds. If one physician is prescribing both meds, then got to wonder about that physician.

PS:  I just read in your thread on the conflicted board that you and your partner had recently moved and she had a new job, both of which she hated.  Stressful life changes can bring on major dysregulation.

She had sex with him on two different occasions.  We were technically broke up.  We had been talking again, but she was absolutely convinced I had went back to my ex-wife.  I have no idea where she gets these things in her head.  I couldn’t convince her that I was not.  I got frustrated and we stopped talking.  When we started talking again a few weeks later she told me. I accepted it.  We were technically broke up, but it still hurt how she could do that after just a couple weeks. Over the next 2-3 mths we were off and on.  She had a friend (who I suspect is NPD or BPD) that told her the only reason I accepted that is because I must have been seeing other women.  I was not

Yes, no one can diagnose someone except professionals.  I suspected bipolar disorder because of the mood swings.  She had been on clonazepam for 20 years for anxiety.  She started taking the tramadol about 5-6 years ago after a hysterectomy.  She had chronic pain afterward.  I’m in the medical field and both her and I know the two together are contraindicated, but she has a PCP that will write it for her.  When she goes over her dad gives her more.   As far as I know she has never seen a psychiatrist.  She has never tried to get off the benzos.  I have helped her get off the tramadol multiple times, but during times of stress she goes back.

Yes, recently moved and that is when she split me black

What do you think about me starting an anonymous blog?  I’m hoping I can tell out story and maybe she could read it and see my view

[Naughty Nibbler]

I have thought about writing a blog basically detailing my journey with my wife, my discovery of her uBPD, and my desire to help her.  Really start from the beginning of our story all the way until know.   I would talk about what I learned of the disease and detail what leads me to believe my wife has it.  Then I can talk about how treatment would be a godsend.

It would be an anonymous blog of course but I could use a name I know my wife would find.  Even though she has me blocked I know she still stalks me over the net.  I could put in a reference to a blog I started on social media, but without giving away the location. Then no one would find it, but her Or I could just direct her son to it.

Since she is an LCSW, maybe it would open her eyes.

I think that journaling for you is a great idea.  Doing it, along with therapy and posting here can supercharge the benefit.  Be careful about writing something, for her or her son to discover online.  I tend to think you will get a bad reaction. 

It's unfortunate that she has physicians writing prescriptions, that they shouldn't be writing.  They should be referring her for a psychological eval. and hopefully prompting her to take appropriate meds.  Benzos can be a tool, but not the only tool. 

Do you live in the US?  I doubt that she has pain from a surgery from 4 years ago.  A reputable physician would require a thorough evaluation, before prescribing pain med on an on-going basis.  How Is her father able to supplement his daughter's supply of pain meds? 

You might want to have a discussion about the med situation with your therapist and seek advice.  Do you think the physicians are being lenient with your partner, because she is a LCSW?  Might there be a strategy to use with the two physicians to cause a review of the way they are prescribing controlled substances? 

The best things that could happen are:
1. The physician who prescribes ongoing benzos, requires that she get a psych eval and be evaluated by a psychiatrist in regard to other, less addictive meds. for daily use & use benzos less frequently and without opioids.

2.  Physician who continues to prescribe pain meds for 4 years, needs a nudge to stop doing that, have her get an eval for root cause of actual pain & treat that or stop the prescriptions. 

3.  Her dad quits supplementing her pain meds.

I guess if you were to talk to her son, I'd focus on the drug issues, drug combo & her dad supplementing her opioids.  The focus of concern would be that she could die from the combo, that the recent stress of moving & changing jobs has caused major emotional dysregulation for her & she needs a proper psych eval and proper meds.  All you can do is suggest it, say you want the best for her and then let it be.