Parenting decisions drive me crazy - like one tonight

[momtara]

Hi all, this is more about a parenting decision than a legal one for a change, which I'm glad about. Ex doesn't even know about this one (yet). My older child is about ready for middle school next year and there's one magnet school in the next town that is hard to get into, that he might like. It's a little quirky like him, but our local school is ok too. I think I want to keep him in my town's schools for a while longer. Thing is, you can only apply to this magnet school for 6th grade, and then they don't accept applications again, even in 7th and 8th. So if they accepted him for next year (which they decide in spring) I'd probably say no. He's just young and uneasy (right now anyway) about taking a bus out of town. Also, having him go out of town would mean ex could move to that town and have more access to him, whereas right now we're in a kinda expensive town where ex can't move to. My son is a bit immature and this school requires an essay and such. So that's another factor, I'd practically be writing the thing with him. He'd be just fine staying in our town's schools, too. Here is my fear, though. I fear that I won't apply, and in spring I'll be thinking "What if...what if they decided to hold onto these apps and let more kids in for 7th grade in a year from now, and I should have applied." I've been terrorizing myself about this decision for two weeks: Do I apply for him, or no? If I do, I also have to get 2 recommendations and stuff, and I'm thinking his teachers may mention it in passing someday to my ex, who may then push for him to go to this place if he ever finds out. I think you may all understand how I should sorta think about things without considering my ex, but on the other hand, we DO need to consider their behavior, don't we? Most people don't understand. It IS a factor. I am leaning toward just not applying, considering I don't really want him to go to the school anyway next year and the schools in town are fine. But if it was for 7th and 8th I would. So I guess my only fear in NOT applying is that there could be some weird thing where they change course and say they'll let in a few more a year later. This has never happened before. Some friends have said to me, "Why not just apply and see what happens? You don't have to decide everything now." Well, I don't want to torture myself with this decision any longer as it's giving me anxiety. Also, I also don't want to ask the school to send his info and recs if I don't really care if he goes to this place anyway. And I don't want to make up an essay. There's just a small .01 percent part of me that hates that I might kick myself someday for not applying. I think I just don't trust my decisions all the time because a) I married someone with BPD and b) I don't really have a partner to make these decisions with or validate them and c) I've always been shy and insecure, and that's part of why I ended up with ex. What would you do: Go to the trouble of applying to a school that's hard to get into and where I might not even want my son to go if he gets in (and I'll just torture myself more in spring with saying no if he gets in), or save myself the trouble and stop worrying about it? I really change my mind every moment and apps are due soon.

[momtara]

Hi all, this is more about a parenting decision than a legal one for a change, which I'm glad about. Ex doesn't even know about this one (yet). My older child is about ready for middle school next year and there's one magnet school in the next town that is hard to get into, that he might like. It's a little quirky like him, but our local school is ok too. I think I want to keep him in my town's schools for a while longer. Thing is, you can only apply to this magnet school for 6th grade, and then they don't accept applications again, even in 7th and 8th. So if they accepted him for next year (which they decide in spring) I'd probably say no. He's just young and uneasy (right now anyway) about taking a bus out of town. Also, having him go out of town would mean ex could move to that town and have more access to him, whereas right now we're in a kinda expensive town where ex can't move to. My son is a bit immature and this school requires an essay and such. So that's another factor, I'd practically be writing the thing for him as he has little interest right now. He'd be just fine staying in our town's schools, too. Here is my fear, though. I fear that I won't apply, and in spring I'll be thinking "What if...what if they decided to hold onto these apps and let more kids in for 7th grade in a year from now, and I should have applied." I've been terrorizing myself about this decision for two weeks: Do I apply for him, or no? If I do, I also have to get 2 recommendations and stuff, and I'm thinking his teachers may mention it in passing someday to my ex, who may then push for him to go to this place if he ever finds out. I think you may all understand how I should sorta think about things without considering my ex, but on the other hand, we DO need to consider their behavior, don't we? Most people don't understand. It IS a factor. I am leaning toward just not applying, considering I don't really want him to go to the school anyway next year and the schools in town are fine. But if it was for 7th and 8th I would. So I guess my only fear in NOT applying is that there could be some weird thing where they change course and say they'll let in a few more a year later. This has never happened before. Some friends have said to me, "Why not just apply and see what happens? You don't have to decide everything now." Well, I don't want to torture myself with this decision any longer as it's giving me anxiety. Also, I also don't want to ask the school to send his info and recs if I don't really care if he goes to this place anyway. And I don't want to make up an essay. There's just a small .01 percent part of me that hates that I might kick myself someday for not applying. I think I just don't trust my decisions all the time because a) I married someone with BPD and b) I don't really have a partner to make these decisions with or validate them and c) I've always been shy and insecure, and that's part of why I ended up with ex. What would you do: Go to the trouble of applying to a school that's hard to get into and where I might not even want my son to go if he gets in (and I'll just torture myself more in spring with saying no if he gets in), or save myself the trouble and stop worrying about it? I really change my mind every moment and apps are due soon. I second guess myself a lot, and likely will do so either way.

[formflier]

Back in the day, we almost sent our kids to an immersion program for elementary schools.  Spanish would have been the primary language for all the classes (we speak only English).  We knew several families that had high schoolers that did that elementary school and they were fluent in Spanish..even as high schoolers.  

The language stuck with them.  

If the daily transportation burden was solved...or had been handled by someone else, we would have done it.

We made a deliberate and thoughtful choice to have them ride the bus to their school everyday.  (I'm telling you this story because logistics really does matter.)

Sure, from time to time I might look back and wish we did something different, but I know we made a thoughtful and deliberate choice...so those feelings quickly pass.

That's been consistent for me on many fronts, if I do the process and then make a decision..I'm much better about things than "skipping" something or "inaction".

That's how I'm wired.

I couldn't quite figure out from the post "how you are wired", so I would encourage you to to think about that in a general sense and set aside this particular decision/school thing.

Once you get a sense of who you are...how you work...be true to that.

Switching gears:  What does your kid want to do?   (how many children..will you be setting precedent?)

Last..and perhaps this also goes to your parenting style.  Do you like data about your kids?  I love school reports and testing.

So I would think whether or not he gets in the school that there would be some feedback other than a yes or no decision.

If you do decide to proceed...I would encourage you to let your child do the application...at most be a coach.  

Best,

FF

[momtara]

Thanks! I DID spend a lot of time doing research to make the best decision, and I'm happy with that. Sure, I may second guess someday, but ultimately, I feel like my son has the rest of his life to go away from me, and for now I might as well keep him close a little longer. Plus, he was not interested the idea of taking a bus a little further away (although I think he'd like it once there) because he doesn't want to go farther if he doesn't have to. And I'd have had to write the whole essay myself; he just doesn't care. Mainly because he's young. IN a year or two, yeah, we'd have a better picture. The only way I'll regret this is if, come summer, I'm evicted and have to move out of my town or something. Then the distance won't matter. But honestly, as much as I tend to not want to have regrets and "give him options" as people have said, I think this is an option I have a 1 percent chance of taking and I think applying will actually torture me more. What I realized is that he will be fine, either way. I've made bad decisions in my life but I think this isn't one that has terrible consequences. With him being in a public, larger school, he gets more time to explore his interests, rather than being in this little, more focused school, and maybe he'll get more support. We can always pick a more focused high school in a few years. Anyway, your thoughts were really helpful. Sometimes, it's ok not to take every opportunity, to give yourself a break and focus on things you're more excited about. That said, my other kid may be a good fit for this school someday so maybe we'll apply then.

[formflier]

I'm curious why you would have to write the essay?

Sounds like he has thought about it and his input is no.

How do you think you would feel if you applied and he didn't get in?

How do you think he would feel if you applied and he didn't get in?

Another big picture thing that's "me" and I try to teach this to my kids is that if you aren't getting rejected/punted...you probably haven't "found the top".

Said another way..if everything you are doing is working out great..smooth sailing with no issues, likely you are not pushing yourself enough.

Again..that's me.

So...I'm going to take a stab at expressing the value/parenting thing that you are expressing here.

"Togetherness" is very high on your value list..perhaps higher that where I rank it or others (no judgment there..just observation)

If this is true I would flip the situation.  Instead of considering the school...focus your energy on what "more togetherness" will look like for you guys this spring/next fall.

Double down on that.

Thoughts?


Best,

FF

[momtara]

I wouldn't tell him if he didn't get in. Honestly, this is something I'd be doing. He's young. He doesn't really care where he goes to school except if he has friends. If this was high school, he'd have more input. But it's middle school and he doesn't care enough. So that's why I'd have to write the essay. He has not much to say about why he'd want to go there. That's why I wish they let people apply in 7th and 8th and not just 6th. But so be it, I probably don't want him to go anyway, in the next 2 years. So I don't want to keep torturing myself with the process. I just sometimes feel funny about not taking any opportunity, even one I probably don't want. I think I did research and made a good decision, and will just have to remind myself of that if I start thinking of "What if." As for togetherness, just being there to support and guide him is key for me, and being not far away during the day if he has a problem at school.

[kells76]

Hey momtara;

What I'm starting to learn, late in the game, is that the more "behind the scenes" legwork/data gathering/fact gathering I do for kid related stuff, the more settled I can be and the better decisions I can make (note: as a stepmom, so my role is more limited. though often I do stuff "deputized" for DH if that makes sense)

And, when I can be straightforward with other adults/professionals about the "hassles" or "issues" I'm running into (usually around scheduling stuff for the kids), the more relieved I feel that everything is "out in the open" and we can the go right to problem solving.

For example, SD12 has started volunteering somewhere for a cause she supports, and because I got certified as well, I am the 1 adult of us 4 who takes her. There are other shifts open during Mom's time but even though I'd emailed Mom weeks ago, I hadn't heard anything back. So, I emailed the volunteer coordinator (a LOT...) to explain "Hey, SD12 has a mom's house/dad's house setup, and I know she's supposed to put in X hours per week. We're waiting to hear back from  Mom about scheduling; will SD12 get dinged if she can't do all the required hours? Can she do an out-of-the-box, alternative thing to get volunteer hours?" The coordinator has been great, understanding, and helpful, especially once I just put it out in the open (in a neutral, non-blaming way) that look, this is the issue, this is the info we're waiting on, can we do X, Y, or Z instead? It went really well.

For SD14, Mom decided to "homeschool" her this year   and I'm again the only adult of the 4 who can help with math. So, I'm teaching her math, but I'm also talking to the district curriculum coordinator to see if she is meeting standards. Again, emailed to say "Hey, we got a surprise in September, we thought SD14 was going to local HS but instead she's being homeschooled and I'm teaching math. Here's the book we're using... will this count as freshman math?" The curriculum lady has been super helpful as well and pointed out a couple more things I hadn't even thought of.

So, what would it be like for you to call the small alternative school, lay out your specific concern really straightforwardly, and see what they say? I'm envisioning something like you've told us here:

"Hey, my son will be a 6th grader next year. While right now I think he isn't quite mature enough for the program, there's ways he could really benefit from it in 7th-8th grade. To be honest with you, I'm kind of concerned that spots will open up in 7th grade, and I'll just be kicking myself for not pursuing this for him. Can we talk more about whether that would happen?" Or something like that.

FF has brought up "how we're wired", and for me, the way I'm wired, I do way better with "getting factual information" than wondering whether something might happen that I am not sure about.

I totally get not wanting your kids' dad to know about it, too. Consider what it might be like to bring that in the conversation as well. I often frame it to professionals as "SD12 does way better when communication happens between teachers and parents separately, versus between the parents. It really helps keep the focus on SD12 and her needs".

Glad you're here  

kells76

[momtara]

Great response, thanks. I did ask two people affiliated with the school about that. They said it's never happened that they took people off the wait list or admitted new people in 8th. Only the summer before 6th grade. They said "Why not just apply and see what happens." And that's true, you never know, I could apply and they suddenly decide they're going to take some people a year later. But I just don't feel like going through this for that remote possibility. If it was a little easier, if there wasn't an essay or recommendations and such, I'd just submit the app, but it's more involved.

I partly posted here because I don't trust all my decisions, as some of us with BPD exes probably don't. I still can apply my son until 7 tonight if anyone says "DO it!" But I just feel like it's going to cause me more agony over a chance I 99 percent will probably not take anyway. My son will get better resources closer to home. I guess it's just that the lure of a small magnet school is great, and he is a quirky kid. But just not mature enough yet to be ready (cares more about video games than pursuing an art, although he's showed some talent for drama or comedy). I guess if they change their minds in 2 years and admit kids for 7th or 8th I can apply then. I think I'm ok with my decision and not doing it for the wrong reasons (fear, not devoting enough time, etc.) It's just always hard to know if I'm making the 100 percent right choices.

[worriedStepmom]

I've had the same problem as you - fretting over making the BEST decision possible for my kids.

I've learned that sometimes a Good Enough decision works just fine.

What's the worst-case scenario if S doesn't attend the magnet school?  Your kid stays at his local school with a shorter bus ride and gets a good education.

That's not a bad outcome.

[formflier]

I would encourage you to let your child experience the result of their choices...fully.

My 5th kid has some space cadet in him and was haphazard about fully completing assignments (yet all his testing showed him very high).

We warned him some about where his path would end up, especially in high school and then let him sort through it.

Well..his freshman year he did not get into "early college" (and supposedly they only allow you in as a cohort freshman year..miss it an your done), instead he got put in a motivation group for underachievers.

Luckily I was able to keep FFw fairly calm and we let it go through.  First couple weeks were eye opening because he could look around the class and realize that he was not a mouth breather and booger picker like the rest of the people in there.

The teachers quickly reach out to us and said he didn't belong there and we encouraged them to chat with our son.  He exited that program at Christmas break and was invited to join early college the next year.

This is his senior year, he smashed the SATs and appears to be on track for college admissions for computer engineering.

Quite a journey.

Best,

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm just dropping a side comment, that in my observations, I think where the kids go to school means less and less.  I'm also becoming more and more Zen.

The critical subjects in life, like balancing your budget, emotional intelligence, and standing up to bullies, all come from somewhere intangible - not an accredited educational course.

So many kids are pushed into educational tracks by well-meaning parents.  I'm not sure that's good.  Some kids float, some kids sink.  Admittedly, kids need pushes.  But, we could spend agonizing hours in the dark of night trying to "decide" things that we can't predict or control, or really decide.

Certainly try.  Shoot for the stars, kind of thing.  But, don't get too far ahead of yourself trying to figure out what the kid's dad will do in response, whether it's best for the kid, whether the school will accept him now, or whatever. 

Kiddo might make really good friends and choices at whichever school he gets into.

I do support the idea of if there is an essay, let the kid do his own work.  Coach and proofread maybe, but led the kid speak. We value the things we achieve over what is given.

[momtara]

Thanks, Worried Stepmom and others. That's what I was thinking. He's not even 12 yet. I can worry more later. All of your examples were great. As for letting him write the essay, his essay would have been, I want to play my Nintendo.

So I dropped the whole thing. He has a few choices closer to home so we'll stick with those. Just wanted to make sure I did my research on this other choice.

My other kid may apply to that school one day, anyway.

Form flier, the Space Cadet comment is funny and I'm glad it worked out, in the end. I was a start student who was lazy about studying until 7th grade, when I realized it might be my ticket out of my dysfunctional home, but I probably didn't really focus until h.s.

Thanks everyone! Always helps to bounce these things off people who understand.

[formflier]

  I want to play my Nintendo.

Use this to your advantage.

You get to play your Nintendo, when you give me a paragraph  about what you enjoy about it.  Give it a  month and then get a page about Nintendo.

I was a bit anti-game for a while, until I understood more about how it's a window into a boys world. 

What you used to have to go outside and imagine, now you can see and participate in...often with others through the magic of the internet.

No pressure either..if he doesn't want to write..praise him for taking time off from playing video games.  Smart choice to rest and have quiet time.

Lots of leverage there...use it.

How often do you play with him?

Best,

FF

[momtara]

I haven't played, even though I liked games as a kid. I should try to watch him play more often. It's hard to find time, with remote schooling and all that. Good suggestion!

Oh, I could have bribed him to write the essay. But it wouldn't have felt right. There were just not enough positive forces in play for me to apply.

I'm comfortable with my decision now. He still has other options. But I really needed a sounding board, esp with people who probably question themselves more than the average, after having been with someone with a PD.

So thanks for being there, as always!

[formflier]

Hey...not really saying bribe him to write that essay or any other essay.

There are obviously concerns with his essay writing skills.

So...him working on essay writing skills is his ticket to his game playing.

Good for kids to understand the value of being productive.

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

I recall my freshman year in high school.  Though I did well in geometry — out of two classes of students I was the one that got the geometry medal awarded at the end of the school year — I did not do nearly as well in my English (native language) and Spanish classes.  I too had difficulty with essays.  I'd stare at a blank sheet of paper and not know what to write.  Later in life, sure, but it was so hard for me back then.  I would have appreciated some tips and hints to point me in the right direction.

BTW ... After my mother died a few years ago I found that medal again in my parents' house.  I don't want to lose track of it again.

[Enabler]

Sorry I am late to the party here but Kells suggested I read some of your threads so here I am.

Over the past 4 years I have given an enormous amount of consideration as to what a child needs to flourish. I think the word flourish is important here because flourish might not mean that they go to college or become an orthopaedic surgeon. Flourish encapsulates the whole gamut of stuff that achieves a happy and fulfilling life.

During this 4 years I've pondered a whole range of different topics considering my own experience as well as friends, family and associates. FF raises one such point which is, is pushing a kid effective and what does pushing a child look like?

At some point in a childs life they can choose to push themselves, or they can choose not to. Ultimately the sooner a child gets to the point of pushing themselves (if that's what they want) the more academic flourishing they will likely achieve. I have a broad group of friends, some of us went to private school, some of us went to state school. A particular example that springs to mind is a friend who's parents worked extra jobs to send him to private school, clearly due to their additional efforts they wanted my friend to achieve as much as possible since they were giving him such a great opportunity. They pushed him and pushed him and pushed him. He achieved a fair amount of success at high-school and got into college... only they weren't at university to push him anymore. He flunked and bombed out after the first year. Not  because he wasn't smart enough but because he'd never ever gained the desire to push himself. He spent 3-4 years rudderless until he found himself, he now has a good career and appears to be flourishing. The number of people at university I experienced going through this period of transition between being motivated by their parents to being motivated by themselves was too numerous to count.

So, what promotes 'self pushing'... or better still lets call it self sustaining momentum? It's a gradient thing. There's false gradient generated by some kind of negative consequence or false positive reward, but none of that is self sustaining since if you remove the consequence or false reward there no longer exists a gradient. The gradient needs to be internal not external. What can I achieve if I put the effort in... in economics terms, what utility will I gain from work? In FF's sons case I think he may have seen that the utility to effort was that with effort he wouldn't be like the people he was in the room with, that he had more potential than those guys and it was up to him to unlock that. Up to that point he'd not seen himself as having similar outcomes to those "types" of people in the underachievers room. Similarly my friend took time to realise his own potential and his own ability to achieve that potential.

I know I ramble so I will make my second point very brief... The skill of learning how to work is often more valuable than the work itself. Covid lockdown could be one of the most defining points of our children's lives. They are learning skills that most children don't learn until they are at university. I had friends in my village telling me how poor the quality of their children's work was and how their children's work wasn't being marked well... I thought, you guys are missing the point here! The skills that our kids are learning are independent working, and not just for 1 or 2 days, 5 months! Our children have learnt the skills of how to navigate resources all around them, learn for themselves, manage time, the list is endless. These are huge skills.

Computer games are not as numbing as they seem. There are a lot of soft skills involved with interacting with a modern computer game. On the face of it I see my 3 girls in front of ipads or computers... scratch beneath the surface and you find they're all interacting with each other... scratch deeper and ask questions and they're playing Roblox "Adopt Me" which is one of the closest things to a live bartering/financial market I have come across teaching evaluation of choice and trade. Next they're playing Blocksberg which is an amazing creative and interactive tool where kids build houses, then deliver pizzas to earn money to buy building materials. Not only are the finished homes amazing and functional, but the soft skills like delayed gratification are immeasurable.

My point in summary... if you want your children to flourish, sending them to the right school may not be the thing you have to worry about. Providing the container which nurtures self sustaining momentum and a basis for learning how to learn is IN MY OPINION far far far more critical than the institution they attend.

NL