We’re divorcing and for some reason I don’t want to. What do I do.

[Spam591]

Closure.  Something else I forgot to mention.  My typical observation is...

And beware of repeated calls.  What if she then claims you're harassing her?  In everyday usage harassment means you're bothering someone, in legal terminology with court looming harassment is huge.  You have to take a step back.  Gift yourself closure.  Let Go.  Move On.

Good call. I don’t call her like that much. Just today. And will heed to your advice.

I slept on the couch in the house last night. She asked me to...? (Over sleeping at my office). I was then woken up at 3:00am this morning by her wailing downstairs. It felt like she was emotionally ambushing me. I have some ptsd and massive anxiety from what happens next so I hurried and grabbed my bag and walked out the door. Before I left she said “you have treated me so badly this last year. We’re not married” I asked if I should just file papers and she wouldn’t give a clear answer.

Here I am stuck in this no-mans land. Where I am not treated in a fair way. She is not accountable or recognize she has literally put her hands on me very violently the last 4/5 days. No remorse. No consequences. And it’s my fault. So I’m stuck between there and a place where she won’t straight up tell me to file papers because I feel like that’s really not what she wants. I could be wrong.. It’s like she enjoys keeping me here to punish me. And for someone with an anxious attachment style who needs to feel secure it’s a dang death sentence. I am making some progress by imagining my six year old son (different mom) being me at six and telling him everything is okay over and over and over again.

I feel like if I file she will get really upset and that’s that. But if I stay here it’s just telling her it’s okay to treat me this way. Oh and she called me pathetic this morning. I feel very pathetic and desperate. I don’t feel like I should have to feel this way by trying to repair my marriage. I’m so hurt.

[MeandThee29]

I feel like if I file she will get really upset and that’s that. But if I stay here it’s just telling her it’s okay to treat me this way. Oh and she called me pathetic this morning. I feel very pathetic and desperate. I don’t feel like I should have to feel this way by trying to repair my marriage. I’m so hurt.

I'm active in the local recovery community and am working through a bit of codependency myself. There's a lot of debate about codependency and difficult relationships, but it's certainly a common dynamic. We talk a lot about situations where one partner is doing too much of the adjusting and trying to save things, and the other partner is destroying and tearing down with mental health and/or addiction issues. Sadly, that combination is doomed to fail. Unless both partners are working on positively rebuilding the relationship while addressing their own issues, it's not going to get better.

I know people who have rebuilt a marriage from very difficult problems, but both were pulling very hard and getting appropriate help. If she's not pulling her weight and is showing signs of giving up like looking for other companionship, you have to evaluate how much effort to put into something that she's steadily destroying. 

[Goosey]

Closure.
Interesting concept and I am sure it happens without even knowing.
I guess the thing is the “need to fix” defect I have. So even now that it is 0% conflict and the same with contact... somehow deep down I spend a lot of time just waiting to “fix” something absurdly upside down and sideways.
I guess I have the curse from these relationships.
I miss the chaos. 

[ForeverDad]

I slept on the couch in the house last night. She asked me to...? (Over sleeping at my office). I was then woken up at 3:00am this morning by her wailing downstairs. It felt like she was emotionally ambushing me. I have some ptsd and massive anxiety from what happens next so I hurried and grabbed my bag and walked out the door. Before I left she said “you have treated me so badly this last year. We’re not married” I asked if I should just file papers and she wouldn’t give a clear answer.

Document that.  A person who truly behaves as though abused won't seek close contact again.  A neutral professional could see how it is her feelings that are in a push-pull state.  Her request should reduce the credibility of what she claimed before.  (Unless she claims you're a controller and manipulated yourself back into her private life.  But let's not go down that Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole.)

[Spam591]

Document that.  A person who truly behaves as though abused won't seek close contact again.  A neutral professional could see how it is her feelings that are in a push-pull state.  Her request should reduce the credibility of what she claimed before.  (Unless she claims you're a controller and manipulated yourself back into her private life.  But let's not go down that Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole.)

Agreed. She thinks I am the most abusive person ever. I opened the door the other day and she shrieked and fell to the ground saying I opened the door on her on purpose. The sexual Assault allegation. Everything I do is wrong. Everything I do is abusive.

[Spam591]

I just don’t understand how my life went to complete sh*# within a matter of like 10 days. Everything was normal (as normal as it has been) then I was quickly devalued and discarded. She did nothing wrong in her head. Just an unwillingness to work through things now. She hasn’t called me. Hasn’t reached out. I have a strong feeling she is with someone else.

I keep waiting to file because I want her to come back and be willing to work through stuff. Maybe I should just quickly pull the plug. But then she says stuff to me like stay at the house and not the office. And when I walked in the other day she said “you don’t pay attention to the dogs. Give her some attention so she stops barking” that was while I was on a business call as I walked in. And she was being controlling about it and like coming at me for it and that’s never been a problem. Then the waking me up early and wailing. It’s like she wants my attention. And then on bumble and then she hasn’t been on their since I saw her and called her out. I’m so confused on how to proceed.

[once removed]

I’m so confused on how to proceed.

get centered  

i know that thats easier said than done. i know the saying "easier said than done" feels horrifically cliche right now.

but its critical. because two things are happening:

1. your life is in a state of complete upheaval, which would rock anyones world
2. your wife is in an even more confused and chaotic state than you are. trying to discern what she really wants, or doesnt want, and hang your actions on that, is a fools errand.

having a lawyer is good. you will need one if you, or her, decide to proceed, and in general to know your options. build on this. see a therapist and or a doctor as soon as possible. i know how wild my emotions were during my breakup, i couldnt see the forest through the trees, and that had nothing on your circumstances. it would help to contact domestic violence resources for guidance as well.

getting centered is the best way to know how to proceed or not proceed. determining how you wish to proceed would really go a long way, but i can understand the conflicted feelings you have.

heres the thing. whether the relationship is ultimately salvageable or not, the circumstances really arent. if i were you, id get out of the house completely. stay with a friend, family, a hotel, wherever you can. your wife may not take kindly to that and she may react - please understand that doesnt make it the wrong decision. whether you want to get back together, divorce, or just get emotionally centered, you need to stop the bleeding to help clear your head, and some physical separation and mental space are critical in doing that.

try not to read too much, right now, into what shes saying and doing. it is likely a great deal more complex than her not really wanting to go through with it.

[CoherentMoose]

heres the thing. whether the relationship is ultimately salvageable or not, the circumstances really arent. if i were you, id get out of the house completely. stay with a friend, family, a hotel, wherever you can. your wife may not take kindly to that and she may react - please understand that doesnt make it the wrong decision. whether you want to get back together, divorce, or just get emotionally centered, you need to stop the bleeding to help clear your head, and some physical separation and mental space are critical in doing that.

This! from once removed.  Find a way to get away from the crazy, from the pressure cooker and let your emotions settle out at least a little bit.  Self-care.  For me, running is my "go to" safe space.  On an easy path where I don't have to think, just run.  Eat well, and most important, sleep.   Study after study shows attempting to make critical decision when under stress leads to sub-optimal outcomes.  Find a way to get some peace for yourself if only for a few days or a week.  CoMo

[Spam591]

Update:

She went to the east coast to visit her family for the holiday. I stayed in LA. I was going to fly home but I literally had no money. We have recently been working together budgeting and opened a joint account for the first time in years. My financial controller puts money in on the 1st and 15th. I had to close down and re-open all new accounts because she would online shop and use whatever account number she please. I have stated 10000 times to NEVER use my business accounts and she kept doing it.

She had spent all the money in the account. I put more in and told her its not for her and I need it to buy a ticket home for Christmas and to pay a car payment. She goes and buys a new Chanel bag. $2,000 on hair at a salon (Which I do not know how that is even possible. Only in Beverly Hills I guess), leaving me with $280. I have no other access to any money for a good reason. Im stuck in LA and cannot fly out to spend Christmas with my kids. Im livid. We had a plan. I call her up super calmly and try to express how I now do not have money and the plan wasn't followed. She screams that I am terrible at providing and don't ever do anything for her and hangs up. Blocks me. Refuses to answer. I stop trying to connect.

She calls me on Christmas and is absolutely freaking out screaming at me because my baby momma posted a story on her instagram of my kids in front of their tree and their is an ornament with a picture of a couple. My wife was saying it was me and my baby momma and she knew that we were back together. The picture was my baby momma's sister and newly engaged fiancé . I just hung up. Like this is so selfish. So So Selfish of her. I was alone yet again on Christmas partly because of her choices.

Later that night I text her that I was heavily exposed to COVID (Which is true)  and not to come home. She says okay. Im laying in Bed relaxing as its the first time in a while I've been able to feel safe and feel like I have a place to chill thats not my office and she comes home. Im absolutely raging pissed. She has no reason to be here. She does online school. Her dad has an enormous house and she could have stayed in one of the any bedrooms. She then gets upset with me and starts saying things like "You just wanna f other girls don't you".

Point being I am so emotionally done with this. She says she is but then she behaves the same way everyday. Crosses my boundaries. Wont work as a team or couple in any capacity. Doesn't ever think she did anything wrong. So I sleep at my office again last night. Im absolutely livid and I have so much resentment and hate towards her.

[Cat Familiar]

Have you consulted your attorney about getting a restraining order?

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Spam-

I’m hoping at some point you’ll begin to tell yourself the really hard truth about what’s happening here.  I understand it’s difficult when you believe you love a person.  But in all honesty, when you stated on 12/17 that you “didn’t understand how things went to complete sh*# in like 10 days..”. That was not really the truth.  At all.  Your birthday and the Vegas trip were pretty recent, correct?

You’d likely serve yourself well to read back over your history of posts here.  Painful, but eye opening.  No judgment, my friend.  These relationships are so so hard.  And each time things turn around after another horribly traumatic event, we convince ourselves, we SO BADLY want to believe, we’re really on track to our “happily ever after”...

It doesn’t happen unless and until our disordered partners acknowledge and accept their deep issues and accountability, and enter intensive therapy.

May I suggest that you also read what Once Removed wrote on 12/22.  He said some really important things to you.  Really well thought out things that could light the path for you.  If you wish.

As for your W crossing your boundaries, my friend... our disordered partners do this because we don’t enforce those boundaries.  That’s the price.

She should have NO ACCESS to your business accounts.  At all.  That’s your boundary.  Full stop.

Spam - our boundaries represent OUR VALUES.   It could help you to read up on boundaries again.  If you wish for this marriage to have any chance of working, this may be the only place to begin (aside from intensive therapy). 

She has engaged in ongoing financial abuse, infidelity, direct violence, withholding, verbal abuse.  There are no boundaries.  No space.

Please... please give yourself some space and time to gather your thoughts and strength.

Sadly, when a disordered partner is this sick, we are sometimes nothing more than “functional” to them.  A source of money and “things” for them.

I am so so sorry for what you are going through.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ForeverDad]

Why, why, why do you expect she will listen to your boundaries?  You keep getting sabotaged because you enable her to sabotage you.  You put $$$$ into a joint account because you want to be overly fair and foolishly expect compliance while also knowing her spending excesses.

News flash, it is past time to get personal accounts, both bank account and credit/debit cards, that you will never allow her to touch or snatch.

As Gemsforeyes wrote, she should never have access to your business accounts, the financial risk is too great.  Same for personal accounts.  Then if/when you put money into the joint account you will be less stressed when the funds predictably get drained.

If you have joint credit accounts, close them.  Why?  It's hard to close them with balances pending.  And if you suspend the account, since it is joint then they'll let your spouse un-suspend them.

[Spam591]

Have you consulted your attorney about getting a restraining order?

I literally have no money to retain my attorney. I've been cut off financially and put on a strict budget. Mainly because of her and her crossing my boundaries and getting me into a semi bad situation over the years. And myself not holding firm on boundaries.

I am filling as soon as I come up with the funds.

[Spam591]

Why, why, why do you expect she will listen to your boundaries?  You keep getting sabotaged because you enable her to sabotage you.  You put $$$$ into a joint account because you want to be overly fair and foolishly expect compliance while also knowing her spending excesses.

News flash, it is past time to get personal accounts, both bank account and credit/debit cards, that you will never allow her to touch or snatch.

As Gemsforeyes wrote, she should never have access to your business accounts, the financial risk is too great.  Same for personal accounts.  Then if/when you put money into the joint account you will be less stressed when the funds predictably get drained.

If you have joint credit accounts, close them.  Why?  It's hard to close them with balances pending.  And if you suspend the account, since it is joint then they'll let your spouse un-suspend them.

Completely agree with this. I keep hoping she comes around but she won't.

She called me for the first time this morning and says "you cut me off financially. What is happening with us. Are we seeing other people because I don't have money and I need New Years plans". LIKE WHAT! How does someone have the audacity to call and passively threaten seeing other people for money. Then puts her having zero money on me when if she would have followed the financial plan we would have more than enough. I cannot even wrap my head around the way this woman thinks and justifies this stuff...

[stolencrumbs]

I literally have no money to retain my attorney. I've been cut off financially and put on a strict budget. Mainly because of her and her crossing my boundaries and getting me into a semi bad situation over the years. And myself not holding firm on boundaries.

I am filling as soon as I come up with the funds.

Hi Spam,
I haven't chimed in on your thread, but I've been following it. There are a lot of similarities to my story--abuse of all kinds, substance abuse, asking me to leave my house, making false allegations, taking money out of joint accounts. Yep to all of that. And I thought and felt a lot of the same things you are. It's a nightmare.

I'm chiming in here mainly to encourage you to think seriously about getting an order of protection. I finally did that a little over a month ago. It was, without a doubt, the single best thing I could've done for myself. Whatever you end up doing or decide you want to do, I think you will benefit from having space to work through things you need to work through, and a PO can help give you that. It's hard to make progress when you're in a constant crisis. I encourage you to do what you need to do to find some space.

In my state, and I assume this is true across the country given that my state is not particularly progressive, it is free to file for an order of protection. I have a lawyer, but I did not use my lawyer to get the order of protection. It is a pretty straightforward process, and you have evidence of abuse. I've also been to a local domestic violence center and they were very helpful about the process. At the very least, find the website of the court that handles POs where you are and download the form. It's a step. 

I was not good at maintaining boundaries, and my wife ran roughshod over them all the time. The PO is the only boundary my wife has managed to not run through (yet.) I worried about what she would do, and I worried about "punishing" her. But it's not about her. It is an order of protection. It's to protect me, and it is doing that. It is protecting me from the constant onslaught of abuse, and it is giving me space to breathe. I hope you can find that same space.

[ForeverDad]

I'm chiming in here mainly to encourage you to think seriously about getting an order of protection... It was, without a doubt, the single best thing I could've done for myself...

In my state, and I assume this is true across the country given that my state is not particularly progressive, it is free to file for an order of protection. I have a lawyer, but I did not use my lawyer to get the order of protection. It is a pretty straightforward process, and you have evidence of abuse. I've also been to a local domestic violence center and they were very helpful about the process. At the very least, find the website of the court that handles POs where you are and download the form. It's a step.

Even if you can't afford a lawyer now, you can afford a protection order.  Courts and staff can't give legal advice but can provide lists where you can get free or inexpensive advice and support.  Sometimes the clerk or others can remark to the wall, "there goes a good lawyer" or "don't you want to word it another way", etc.

Court in general is rather "less than helpful" because it is to be impartial, but the individuals can find a way to assist or direct you to where you can get the assistance.

I'll share a story where my court staff found a way to shape the outcome.  I had gotten through my two year divorce.  I was in court a few months later.  My ex raised a side issue and the magistrate didn't even give me an opportunity to explain what really happened.  The magistrate was rushed for time with her full schedule and clearly upset.  My ex was upset too and said she would appeal the matter.  My lawyer told me later what happened behind the scenes.  The magistrate knew that if my ex docketed her motion before the magistrate filed her decision, the case would stay with her.  So she asked the clerk not to timestamp anything Ex turned in until the magistrate got her decision written and stamped first.  There were other magistrates and she was hoping with a random assignment it would land on someone else's desk.  My point?  There can be motivation in court to get things done.  If you go in seeking help they may very well find a way to help you even if they can't directly guide you.

Include documentation with your petition for protection.  Whatever reports you have from police or other agencies will be powerful to support you.  Avoid generic or vague "he always..." or "she always..." claims that are easily dismissed as hearsay.  List specific incidents, preferably within the past 6 months.  Older incidents may be viewed as 'stale' or too old to be 'actionable'.  Her actions against you may be actionable but if she was focusing on your child then that would be even more actionable.  You're an adult, you're expected to know how to protect yourself, but a child is largely defenseless and doesn't know what to do.  Courts will rush to help a victim like a child but a bit less motivated for a grown adult.

[RestlessWanderer]

Hi there Spam. I haven’t posted on this thread before. I’ve looked in on it from time to time. But like you and stolencrumbs, I’m going through a similar situation. I too love my wife and have been running on hope for years. Though there really hasn’t been any real sign of hope for a long time. The logical thinker in me couldn’t understand why I was still with her. My heart saw how hurt and damaged she is and couldn’t bear to add more to that. And another part of me, probably my ego, wanted to show her that all her claims that I was a worthless no good piece of were so far from the truth.
I did a bad job of enforcing boundaries too. I should have done something the very first time she hit me. I didn’t. Or the second. Or the third. Or the fourth. Etc. I really should have done something when she drop kicked me in the stomach while I was on all fours fixing something. I didn’t. I almost did do something this summer when she picked up a racquetball sized rock and threw it at me, damaging my car window. Almost being the key word.
But she did finally cross a boundary that I absolutely could not let go without consequences. A little over a week ago she flipped out at our son over some missing remotes. When he and I found them in plain sight she picked them up and threw them at us. Then she came at me and struck  me in the head. Our son was terrified. He had heard plenty of yelling from her in the past, but it had almost always been targeted at me. This was the first time she ever crossed that line by assaulting him. Thank God he wasn’t hurt. To make sure she never got the chance again I immediately filled an order of protection (TPO) and requested custody.
Two days later I filed for divorce.
So far, I feel safer knowing that the TPO can protect me as long as she doesn’t want to jeopardize her chances of seeing our son. I’m by no means out of the woods yet, but I can’t remember the last time I went a week without being blamed for every single thing.
I could never understand why I couldn’t leave. I know exactly how tormenting that is. I posted on here over again about that. I even proudly declared it was over, but a couple of days later I was back in the house with her.
Even now that there’s no turning back, I find myself feeling heartbroken knowing the hell she’s likely living right now that she’s alone. But I remind myself that this is happening because of her actions. As much as I love her and wish she could love me, I know that I deserve better. I know that somewhere there’s someone that would accept my forgetfulness, my procrastination, and my passive personality. But I also know that I am just fine on my own.

As many have told you, start by being kind to yourself. I think that means making sure that your safety and security are rock solid. A TRO could be a great first step for you.
Heed the advice you receive here. There are so many good people here.

[Enabler]

HI Spam591,

You sound like you're making progress, well done. One thing before I forget, where are the tapes of her assaults/rages? Make sure they are safe, preferably out of the home, maybe with your lawyer. If they're on the cloud, I'd think about downloading them. I'm a big advocate of documenting and as ForeverDad (I think) pointed out, this is as much for your own sanity as it is for your defence.

I believe there comes a critical point in these relationships where you give yourself permission to believe the seemingly impossible... the person we love/once loved lies... a lot... about inconsequential things.

Others have suggested and I would endorse, getting separated, and getting separated for a good period of time. I don't think this is the case with you and your wife (there seems like too much is going on), but there needs to be a set minimum say 3 months, and some of that needs to be with minimal contact. Living together albeit with you being in another room doesn't allow the fear you've mentioned to alleviate. It's clear that you can observe the emotions you're feeling but I suspect that as those feelings subside living apart you will gain even more perspective over the detrimental effects this relationship is having on you (Highs as well as lows). With your new baseline and ability to ringfence the things that are important to you, maybe with a RO, you'll be able to get yourself to a point where you can treat your wife fairly.

I would stop sharing/verbalising your feelings with your W. You tell your W that you are afraid of her and tell her she did bad things after she attacked you... her response was to accuse you of doing bad things and she was afraid... more afraid and more bad. She then attempts to hurt you financially, something you have verbalised is troubling you. She's hitting you where she thinks it'll hurt... because she feels like you've hurt her. I suspect this to continue as a theme even if it's to her detriment. I would definitely consider how you protect assets and consider how you place a block on credit being taken out under your name or with any joint assets as collateral. I would also stop sharing anything you find when snooping. Snooping isn't healthy, it's often illegal, it regularly harvests noise rather than data, it provokes emotions and you're trying to get away from that... but, if you do, keep that to yourself (and here)... regardless of what you find.

Your W is obviously combative, that's going to give you limited choices with regards to how any divorce is managed. I'm no expert but there seems little to work with with regards to her wanting to seem like someone she's not (a mask), maybe in the eyes of children (not relevant). Others may see different options and any legal counsel would be able to advise but I see 2 paths... she meets someone else and moves on, the divorce becomes her idea and you just let her go with minimal intervention (this could happen in the separation and she seems to be looking already)... or... you move swiftly, implement the post-nup quickly and ruthlessly and immediately look to place significant barriers around your world. IF she can't punish you due to the post-nup, my guess would be that she's likely to try other routes.

Take time, be considered and purposeful with your moves. Don't be afraid to set the agenda, and if you are afraid make it a priority to get into a safe physical and mental space so that you can set the agenda.

NL 

[scraps66]

https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/self-help/too-good-to-leave-too-bad-to-stay/

This book helped me to put things in perspective.  Being naturally indecisive and involved with a stbexBPDNPDw, with two small children, was a difficult determination to negotiate.

[Spam591]

Thank you all for your replies. It means a tremendous amount to me.

Is a protective order a restraining order?

Here is what I want to do. I want to get a divorce to protect myself financially and feel safe. I want to get a separate apartment here in LA but be exclusively together. I feel like this mixed with both of us working on ourselves will give this a good chance. And if it doesn't improve then its not a big deal to go separate ways. I ran this by her this morning and she said things like "absolutely not" "Im not letting a man divorce me and then date him. Its against my woman hood" 'you need to respect my boundary. It will never happen". I feel like if she truly loved me and cared about my well being she would be okay with being together no matter what a piece of papers says. I this reaction causes me to feel financially used.

[stolencrumbs]

Thank you all for your replies. It means a tremendous amount to me.

Is a protective order a restraining order?

Here is what I want to do. I want to get a divorce to protect myself financially and feel safe. I want to get a separate apartment here in LA but be exclusively together. I feel like this mixed with both of us working on ourselves will give this a good chance. And if it doesn't improve then its not a big deal to go separate ways. I ran this by her this morning and she said things like "absolutely not" "Im not letting a man divorce me and then date him. Its against my woman hood" 'you need to respect my boundary. It will never happen". I feel like if she truly loved me and cared about my well being she would be okay with being together no matter what a piece of papers says. I this reaction causes me to feel financially used.

Yes, they are essentially the same thing. Different states do things slightly differently and use different terminology. In my state, an order of protection is specifically for domestic violence--i.e., you have to have a certain relationship with the person (spouse, romantic partner, etc.) in order to file it. A restraining order is for any other kind of relationship. But they essentially do the same thing.

I think your plan sounds reasonable, but yeah, you're not gonna get her agreement or permission on any of this. If you make moves to take more control over your life, my experience at least, is that you're going to get major push back. One thing I've really come to realize in the past month is how much of my attention was focused on my wife and how little I did without getting explicit or tacit consent from her to do anything. It is still very strange for me to think about what is best for me, and then to make a plan to just do that. That is not what I did for 17 years, and it feels strange and somehow wrong. It's not. I know that. But it still feels like it is. If you think what is best for you is to have that space, then I would encourage you to take those steps. Your wife may feel exactly how she's telling you she will. She might not. She might react horribly. She might not. You can't control that. But there is a whole lot of your plan that you can control. And you'll be taking steps that help you. And if she chooses to do the work and try to improve things, she can do that, and you'll be in a better place if she does. You'll also be in a better place if she doesn't. 

[RestlessWanderer]

I had to come to terms with the fact that very little was going to change with my W. I hated the thought that BPD was going to be ever present. I was changing too much to try and either appease her, or avoid upsetting her. That was futile. I was losing sight of my values and teaching her in a Pavlovian way that she could get away with so much. The double standard was beyond frustrating. It just seemed so unfair that she could express anything she wanted, but I had to walk on eggshells.
I hope that you can see that in order to have the relationship you want, she is going to accept that she also needs to put in work. I tried over and over to think of something that will click and make sense in my W’s head. But there isn’t anything like that.
I realized that it had been so long that I had even seen a glimpse of the woman I fell in love with. I wanted her to find peace and overcome the trauma that she’s endured for 35 years. But I had to realize that only she has the power and ability to do that.

I wish you well Spam591

[Enabler]

Spam,

I can empathise with your W's feelings here. What you're asking for is very cake and eat it. On the one hand you're asking to void the marriage which is a message that you no longer like/love/feel safe enough to be linked to her, but on the other hand you're asking for exclusivity and suggesting you can have a relationship. That would be confusing for most people let alone someone with all or nothing thinking.

You suggest that the reason to get divorced would be for financial protection. I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure that there are no laws saying that a husband (or wife) cannot take reasonable steps within a marriage to protect individually earnt or community assets being squandered. IT IS NOT FINANCIAL ABUSE to provide or leave access to reasonable financial resources, but restrict access to others. What legitimate reason would your W need joint access to the business account in meeting her reasonable needs for starters? "The Marriage" doesn't prohibit you from having boundaries.

There appear to be countless reasonable grounds for you to think the relationship should end, yet you seem less keen on the relationship ending and more keen on the marriage to end.

Relationships are a transaction, your wealth was part of that transaction if it was there in beginning or even if it is present now. You're looking to change the terms of that transaction.

There are approaches that place appropriate boundaries to STOP abuse, and provide scope for individual work/change, then potentially togetherness again. This isn't that approach.

I think it is important to ascertain which path you want to be on such that you set out with a clear objective. Being unclear will result in a confusing message, more chaos and I would predict more anger. If you are unclear about your objectives... no more suggestions till you are. Maybe put your thoughts to the board BEFORE putting them to your W so people here can help you see how they could be perceived by your W. At the moment you are fuelling the fires of her rage and I would guess that's not in your best interests. 

Out of interest, what did you think your W's reaction would be to your suggestion?

NL

[once removed]

I can empathise with your W's feelings here. What you're asking for is very cake and eat it. On the one hand you're asking to void the marriage which is a message that you no longer like/love/feel safe enough to be linked to her, but on the other hand you're asking for exclusivity and suggesting you can have a relationship. That would be confusing for most people let alone someone with all or nothing thinking.

its not realistic, under the best of circumstances, to ask someone to get a divorce, but date.

if you are going to navigate this, it will help to commit to one or the other: try to improve your relationship, or try to end it. be all in, or all out. trying to accomplish both is precarious.

[CoherentMoose]

its not realistic, under the best of circumstances, to ask someone to get a divorce, but date.

I concur.  You can leave open the possibility of a different relationship with her in the far future (years) once you are clearly out of the FOG and she makes clear, observable, sustained progress towards getting healthy. 

Until then, please consider your health and safety (financial safety included) for the immediate future until you are divorced.  Get away, get healthy, and let her manager her demons without you.  Good luck.  CoMo

[Spam591]

I was able to sit down with her and have a convo for about ten minutes tonight. It started off well and as soon as it was my turn to talk she abruptly interrupted me and said “You are literally yelling, the neighbors can hear everything, you are being aggressive, you have spoken this entire time” Does anyone else’s significant other do this as a defense mechanism? So I let her speak more.

I cheated on her this summer although i considered is done. It got violent so I left and we didn’t speak for eight weeks. And I had sex with someone towards the end because I felt like it was done. So tonight she stated that things will never be the same. She will never be able to trust me. And she will never feel the same about me. I started to speak again and she used the same defense and went and locked herself in her bathroom.

Then at 2:00 she calls me and is rolling on E/Molly and tells me she loves me so much. I hung up. Sent her a text telling her it’s a slap in my face that we are in this position because of her mental health mostly and she abuses me, rejects me, abandons me, and then calls me when she’s on drugs. Like what the is going on with my life...

[Spam591]

Well it’s officially over. She’s seeing someone. I’m really aching inside. Trying to keep busy. Trying to grow from this and look for the silver lining.

My heart breaks for her. She sled sabotages the very thing she wants and is afraid of. She wants to not be abandoned yet she sets me up to abandon her. She pushes me away when I make mistakes that wouldn’t be mistakes to other people.

I’ve abandoned myself the last three years in this marriage. Doing things I’m not okay with just to keep the peace. For example not hanging out with certain friends. I’m scared for her. I’m disappointed that she will always look at me like a guy that let her down. I’m really really depressed.

[MeandThee29]

Well it’s officially over. She’s seeing someone. I’m really aching inside. Trying to keep busy. Trying to grow from this and look for the silver lining. 

I'm sorry to hear that. I know how hard it is, but let go. Your time of influence and care has ended. It's heart-breaking, but necessary.

[Gemsforeyes]

I’m sorry, Spam.

I’ve been following your threads since you first came here and the two of you seem to have been battling it out since the beginning.  Nothing changes until something changes.

Yes, it’s very very sad and depressing.  Yes, I’m sure you see that you’ve given up things, friends in your life to appease her.  But you’ve got to know that during times of separation, if you date and sleep with another woman, that likely WILL haunt your partner forever.  Whether or not she’s done the same to you.  All she sees is that you’ve done it TO HER.  That’s all she sees.  So your impulsive behaviors, your “self-soothing” methods deserve to be addressed.  You deserve your attention.  Does that sound reasonable?

In a way, I can almost understand the fact that you did that.  Wanting some calm... But there has been so much more destructive behavior in your relationship/ marriage from your W’s Disorder.  And it doesn’t seem any resolution of any type.  From either side.  The violence continued without responsibility or resolution.  Her illness is taking you down.  You need to stop this, for you.  I am so sorry.

Whether your marriage is officially over at this point... well, who knows?  She may come back when she needs something - a place to land, MONEY.  She seems to do that.  But it doesn’t last.

And unless that’s the role you want to play, it may be high time to move into serious therapy and learn WHY this has been good enough for you.  To erect some serious boundaries. 

Hoping she has NO ACCESS to your business funds.

It’s time to really take care of yourself.  And remember, just because she’s hurting you, does NOT mean you’ve got to hurt her MORE.  You don’t need to seek the comfort of a woman.  Not right now.  I don’t know you, but I’m pretty sure you’re not ready for that.

Please stay here Spam.  Even if she calls tonight full of “love” and words.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ForeverDad]

We members here, collectively, have had countless new members arrive facing the dilemma you have been living.  Although people with BPD (pwBPD) experience huge abandonment issues, their behaviors generally force us into scenarios where we have no choice but to end the relationship, or 'abandon' them.  It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Years ago I read a paperback, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!"  That anonymous author did stick with meaningful therapy and recovered.  But the title highlights the extremes of perception and behaviors that pwBPD have.

Personality disorders occur when a person has mental illness to a greater or lesser extent.  Typically it is not sufficient for a person to be committed, so society has to live with them, generally as they are.  So do we.  So do you.

To a large extent, the members responding here have had a consistent message... You cannot fix her.  She's an adult, you cannot live her life for her.  If she does not want you in her life, that is her decision, for better or for worse.  It is time to Accept this reality.

Review the concept of the 5 stages of grieving a loss: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.  There are many posts you can search here and articles on the internet.  Now is probably a good time to ponder Radical Acceptance.  Are you ready for the next step? ... for Acceptance - the final stage of grieving.