Therapy shenanigans

[worriedStepmom]

SD13's mom ranted on the parenting app yesterday accusing us of keeping her from fixing her relationship with SD (she's still mad that the family therapist talked to us).  It was fun to read - the lack of logic and consistency!

We repeatedly said that if mom is so worried about her relationship, she should do X, Y, and Z consistently.  This has been the mantra for YEARS.

After FT ended, mom made an appt with SD's new individual T and tried to convince her to be the new FT - to pass messages between SD and mom.  H told the T absolutely not and explained a little about the FT debacle and that giving mom negative feedback made her spiral downward (so please be wary).

So now, mom has a new plan.  She switched individual Ts.  Her new one is at the same practice where SD's individual T is.  Mom says this way mom's new T will know SD and H and be able to help mom with her relationship with SD (like sneaky family therapy?).  To which we replied IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.  H has no intention of granting permission for mom's T to talk directly to SD's T.  H has no intention of talking to mom's T.  H has never met mom's T.

We're trying to figure out how mom could cause problems under this new scenario so that we can cut her off.
a) mom can request SD's mental health records and hand them to her own T.  I don't know whether to talk to SD's T about this possibility or not.
b) mom could try to show up at the same time that SD has a T session - but most of SD's sessions are virtual right now.

What else should I be on the lookout for?

[kells76]

Not much you could do about this scenario, but it seems like a classic move to me:

SD13's mom does whatever in her sessions with her own T, but then keeps telling you, Facebook, SD13, everyone, that "well, MY therapist says that I'm doing AMAZING, and says that what's going on between me and SD13 needs to be worked on, and that SD13's dad is really the problem here, and he's never seen any mom as victimized as I am, and blah blah blah"/

It's the move of reinterpreting/translating/(lying about) what actually happens in therapy, because nobody else is there to know the truth. And then telling people "what ACTUALLY happened in therapy" and it sounds convincing.

But we both know there isn't anything we can really do about that. More of a "well, heads up that she might do that move, so don't be surprised".

Also maybe if she does do that, then have the discussion with SD13 (if you haven't already) about why people portray private conversations to others a certain way. Like, what need are they trying to meet, what are they getting out of it, and what can hearers do, if they can't verify what happened.

Will keep thinking if there are any other "classic" moves to look out for.

[kells76]

And two specific questions about (a) and (b):

a) mom can request SD's mental health records and hand them to her own T.  I don't know whether to talk to SD's T about this possibility or not.

I think in some states, over a certain (young!) age, the client has to give consent for records to be given to parents. Maybe it's just our "progressive" state though  I recall SD14's T telling us that she couldn't give US the drawings/notes/etc from sessions, she could only give them to SD13, or "she could hang on to them in her office for safekeeping". We went with "how about you hang on to them".

Whether that extends to "official" documentation or not, IDK. But it did apply to material generated during sessions. So, depending on your state's laws, Mom may not be able to get SD13's session records without SD13's consent. Which is another can o' worms. But I'd check on those laws -- I bet the T's office knows them 110%.

b) mom could try to show up at the same time that SD has a T session - but most of SD's sessions are virtual right now.

How would she know what time SD's session is?

[zachira]

You ask what else should you be on the look out for? In some states, the therapist is legally obligated to protect the confidentiality of the child/adolescent they are seeing which includes not dislosing to the parents anything about the therapy including records and what is being discussed in sessions if it would damage the relationship of the child/adolescent with the therapist. I would ask the therapist how SD's confidentiality is protected by law and let therapist know you want to do everything you can to support your SD feeling comfortable discussing whatever she wants to with the therapist, as this is a safe place for her to discuss what is going on in the two very different homes she is living in.

[kells76]

I would ask the therapist how SD's confidentiality is protected by law and let therapist know you want to do everything you can to support your SD feeling comfortable discussing whatever she wants to with the therapist

That's a good idea from zachira: basically, have the rules be the same for both parents, except that your DH has the skills to manage being "left out" of getting info about SD13's sessions... and her mom does not.

[worriedStepmom]

Our state does require the T not to disclose anything that could cause harm to their patient.  Even though kids don't have final say, I'm sure the T would take their fears into consideration.

SD's old T never gave mom any records, despite her requests.  We've only been at this T for a few months, so she doesn't have the background. SD has been dealing with a lot of stress that isn't COVID-related, so they aren't focusing on mom right now.  (mom has decided that I am the cause of SD's anxiety attacks, which is funny.)

Mom has threatened to call the T's office before to "confirm" (find out) when SD's appointments are so that she can be there.  I think last year I threatened to call the cops if she arrived and disrupted a session, so she's never actually shown up. 

[GaGrl]

I agree that first step is absolute clarification on your state's laws on adolescent privacy on medical records. In my former state, it was age 14.

Also, would probably be good to have another conversation with SD13's T on Mom not having any control or right to therapy decisions and what actions on her part led to that.

[kells76]

have another conversation with SD13's T on Mom not having any control or right to therapy decisions

Good idea -- present the custody order/parenting plan, give them a hard copy, etc, right off the bat.

We've only been at this T for a few months, so she doesn't have the background.

Can you have the old T talk to the new T?

[worriedStepmom]

New T does have a copy of the custody agreement.  We have learned to give that to pretty much every professional we have to deal with.

Can you have the old T talk to the new T?

SD13 didn't want that - she thinks the old T was too biased in favor of her mom (?) and wanted a fresh start.

And we're trying not to say too much to the new T, because we want SD to drive the sessions and highlight what she perceives to be the problems.  It's a tough balance. 

[empath]

My d started therapy when she was 14, and her t said that she wouldn't disclose anything that they talk about to me unless d gave her permission. It's part of their confidentiality and ethical code. She could take ownership/ responsibility for her own therapy when she turned 15, but she doesn't want that kind of responsibility. Her therapist also said that they could put a flag on her file in case her dad tried to get information about her therapy.

My h has tried to get his individual t to do marriage t and give him advice on "how to talk" to me. 

[CoherentMoose]

This impressed me: 

SD13 didn't want that - she thinks the old T was too biased in favor of her mom (?) and wanted a fresh start.

Quite a mature statement in my opinion.  Wow. 

And we're trying not to say too much to the new T, because we want SD to drive the sessions and highlight what she perceives to be the problems.  It's a tough balance.

A sound approach I think.  The goal is getting our children the tools to launch and succeed.  It's always a balance between solving their problems and allowing them to solve their own, or even (gasp!) letting them fail and learn.  CoMo

[worriedStepmom]

Mom let us know that the other T declined to treat her (for reasons other than SD).

Mom then made a bunch of posts basically wanting us to outline a treatment regiment for her.  She wanted us to tell her exactly what to do and exactly what to show her therapist.

Nope.

We just responded that we're staying in our lane, her therapy is up to her and the therapist and we don't need to be involved in any way.  I didn't say - but wanted to - that my goal isn't to get her more time with SD.  My goal is to allow her to see SD in an amount that doesn't negatively impact SD.

We also reiterated, for like the 6th time this week, that she needs to be consistent, pick up her kid, and keep all her negativity and anxiety away from SD. 

[kells76]

Mom then made a bunch of posts basically wanting us to outline a treatment regiment for her.

woowwwww... wow. I mean, we hear a bunch of crazy stuff here... just, wow. I mean, that's also kind of tempting... if she would stick with it... or if a long term stay in the psych ward were on the table (Bad kells76! bad!)

Did she post on OFW/TalkingParents (I forget what you use)?

We just responded that we're staying in our lane, her therapy is up to her and the therapist and we don't need to be involved in any way.

Maybe this is "devil's advocate", but... were you required to respond (because of some rule about OFW/TP)?

Part of me is jealous, if you get what I'm saying, about where you guys are at with custody/PT. I get that it's a different set of problems, but from my limited perspective it seems like you have *ample* grounds for not responding to her in this case -- for not engaging with such overtly crazy statements.

What are you hoping for, from responding to her?