Are they ALWAYS vindictive when you leave?

[andrew77]

Hello everyone.
I've read a lot of horror stories on here about the way their BPD person behaved once they finally left them, from smear campaigns to false allegations to stalking.
What I'm wondering is how many of you who initiated a breakup DIDN'T have any problems afterwards and were able to just move on without hearing from or about them again?
For anyone that hasn't read my previous thread, I'm preparing to break up with a OCDPD/Bipolar person, and taking as many means as possible to prepare for it, such as moving, changing my number, deleting social media, preparing family (asked them to block online etc).
She has been divorced twice as well as ended a relationship with her now grown children's father, and from what I've been able to gather (if it's true), has never sought to disrupt these men's lives after it was over. She even claims that her most recent ex-husband who left her for another woman and just disappeared one day without telling her met her at a restaurant to sign the papers together, that she controlled herself and caused him no issues, and that she declined even seeking a settlement when they had their day in court.

One thing that's occurred to me, however, is that having lived with these men for years, the idealization had a chance to fade, whereas since we have never lived together it's still very strong on her side. She simply hasn't gotten the chance to get tired of me or see me as a regular person.

From what I've read, both BPD people and Bipolar tend to push/pull or leave for no reason or break up out of the blue. This woman has never once ever given me space or accepted my needing it. It's always just been push push push, constant contact, anxiety about how long it takes for me to respond, "when are you next coming? text me later. I called you" etc. etc. etc.

Any time I've tried to leave, the FOGing was intense, she insisted I had to stay and try first, but claims to not be of the opinion that everyone must stay together. She claims she just believes that people have to try first, and can't seem to accept that you can't just insist that someone else stays and tries when they don't want to.

If I've tried to tactfully tell her how I feel or what's on my mind, she uses panic attacks as an ultimatum. I'm making her feel anxiety, I'm going to land her in the hospital again, she'll have a panic attack right in front of me so the conversation ends and I wind up caretaking, or saying "if you leave me I'll have a breakdown and not recuperate. You'll never know what happened to me".

As I mentioned in the other post, she's running a new business online through social media, and she has no financial help. It's going very well for her, so I'm hoping that she wouldn't destroy it all by turning social media into a platform for a smear campaign which would cost her business and make her look bad, as well as making her look bad to family.

She also has 2 adult children and a grandchild she dotes on, so I'm really hoping all of this would deter her from self-destruction, either the lesser form of sabotaging her life for revenge, or the greater kind.
 
Have any of you simply been able to cut your losses and not been bothered again?
Thanks,
Andrew

[swisco]

I've been researching BPD potential behaviour ever since my wife and I separated last February.  Coming from the point of view that I'd never heard of BPD before, it became clear that that appeared to be what we were dealing with, simply because the patterns of GENERAL behaviour which are outlined here and elsewhere fit with the way my wife acts.

I think that's the point though.  There's a tendency to think that perhaps ALL BPD sufferers act the same way in everything they do.  The reality is that they are all different human beings, with different backgrounds and stories, so are likely to act differently in the "finer detail" of the disorder.  Even though there's a tendency for ALL of them to exhibit certain types of behaviour in general terms, how it plays out with each individual can be different.

In my case, a false charge of domestic abuse was made against me, which the court threw out because it was totally unfounded.  It certainly told me I was dealing with someone vindictive - given that our family home belonged to her, all she had to do was ask me to leave if her goal was simply to separate from me.  Instead she went down the route of clearly "punishing" me for something she's perceived I'd "done", using lies to do it.  I sent her a "can we talk?" type letter (after a long period of no contact) at the start of December.  Her response was to have me arrested again on more false allegations.  Again, she could easily have ignored my letter having achieved her aim, but instead proved what a truly vindictive individual she is.  The strange thing for me is that "vindictive" isn't ever a description I'd have used for her.  She could be envious and jealous, but I was never aware that she ever pursued someone for "revenge".  I suspect she had internalised a deep hatred for her father who she claims abused her when she was a child, and who she has had no contact with for decades.  When I was split black (again a general BPD trait), those feelings were externalised on to me.

You'll know your SO better than anyone, so you're likely to be able to predict how she'll react to different triggers.  You'll also know her background.  You mention she issues ultimatums, is anxious and has panic attacks.  Many reactions will come from fear, and tend to be unpredictable, so in your case you'd have to at least consider the possibility that she'd be vindictive if se feels under threat under certain  conditions.

[MeandThee29]

FWIW as one on the other side, you have to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Some perfectly normal people react poorly early in the separation/divorce process. It's just a really hard time in general, and even worse if you are dealing with some who has issues. It may get very ugly indeed, so make sure you have people around you who care including a good therapist and a good attorney if you are divorcing.

I had a huge amount of anxiety and sleep disturbance issues. Don't underestimate how hard this is on you. Some of us have a tendency to focus on their reactions and don't work on helping ourselves through it. I had a very kind, "big brother" type of attorney who helped me a lot even beyond the legal side, but I also got professional help and found a support group.

[MeandThee29]

I sent her a "can we talk?" type letter (after a long period of no contact) at the start of December.  Her response was to have me arrested again on more false allegations.  Again, she could easily have ignored my letter having achieved her aim, but instead proved what a truly vindictive individual she is.  The strange thing for me is that "vindictive" isn't ever a description I'd have used for her.  She could be envious and jealous, but I was never aware that she ever pursued someone for "revenge".  I suspect she had internalised a deep hatred for her father who she claims abused her when she was a child, and who she has had no contact with for decades.  When I was split black (again a general BPD trait), those feelings were externalised on to me.

I'm really sorry to hear that you went through that. I never would have called my ex vindictive either, but it was all burn-the-bridges on the way out. He had a strong attorney who called him on that and told mine. It truly didn't have to end that way, but it did.

[andrew77]

Thanks everyone for your replies, and so sorry to hear about each of your difficult experiences.

So, has anyone here had the opposite experience? That they were able to end it and simply never be bothered by the person again, without vindictiveness?

Horror stories tend to be what gets written about, so I'm wondering how many non-horror stories there are that just haven't gotten mention.

[livednlearned]

An author named William Eddy describes a certain type of person as a "high-conflict personality" or HCP.

He writes that an HCP is someone who is a persuasive blamer, recruits negative advocates, has a target of blame (you), and has a personality disorder. These are people who make false allegations or engage in legal abuse, smear campaigns, and other forms of destruction.

You can be BPD and not HCP, but someone who is HCP always has a personality disorder, according to Eddy. (His website is www.highconflictinstitute.com)

It sounds like the way this woman tries to control her feelings of loss is through bullying and when that doesn't work, through panic attacks. You haven't described someone who seems to have a history of being an HCP (which is good! Even so, BPD alone is also a challenge when it comes to ending a relationship).

You are preparing to leave and doing a good plan pre-planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

It might also be a good time to look at how it got to this point ... the silver lining of these relationships is that we learn to make changes to avoid a repeat.

In Sheep's Clothing is a book I found helpful for identifying the ways in which we allow ourselves to be bullied and manipulated. When your soon-to-be-ex says stay, and you want to go, but you remain for another 2 or 4 or 8 hours, it gives her a strong signal that her maladaptive action are work.

Knowing how to navigate someone's covert aggressions can help you regardless of how she responds, whether she rises to the level of vindictive or not.

[andrew77]

Thanks, livednlearned. And I'll look into that guy's work.

Yes, I'm hoping she just doesn't have it in her to become vindictive, but I also never thought she had it in her to be how she's being now when we were just friends, otherwise I wouldn't be in this situation.

As exhausting as she's been, when I read other reports on this forum, I'm starting to think maybe she has a much lighter version. For instance, she's never done anything physical, like breaking things or harming my belongings or threatening to. Her worst has been just having these panic attacks, manipulating with "you'll cause me a panic attack", or that one time she threatened to come to my house if I didn't go over there right then and there. But even then, she didn't actually DO IT, or even make it to the car, and claims she wouldn't have and was bluffing to get my attention after feeling abandoned.

Also, she hasn't really involved other people. I'd like to think that since she hasn't smeared me up till now, that she wouldn't after I leave her. That's my hope, anyway.

One thing at a time, however. Right now, I'm just consumed with getting out of this.Once the smoke has cleared, yes, I'll do a lot of learning and introspection to avoid falling back in a situation like this.

[ForeverDad]

Her worst has been just having these panic attacks, manipulating with "you'll cause me a panic attack", or that one time she threatened to come to my house if I didn't go over there right then and there. But even then, she didn't actually DO IT, or even make it to the car, and claims she wouldn't have and was bluffing to get my attention after feeling abandoned.

This description reminds me of another similar scenario... claims of suicidal thoughts.  Some here reported that their Ex would periodically claim to be on the edge of suicide and that pressured them into returning, complying or appeasing whatever the demand was.  Yet over years they never actually followed through.  It was more a manipulation ploy than real contemplation of ending it all.

Maybe she really does get severe panic attacks, that's not the issue.  Maybe it's not fully conscious behavior, who are we to say?  What's the issue is that she uses her ability to stress herself to the extent that she hyperventilates or whatever.  She does it to herself, in part at least, to keep you around to rescue her.  Just as happened with her prior relationships.  That's negative engagement.

[BSDMKD]

Hello - I have read through all of this. I have been through the many Make up and then Break up due to the reality that these folks (BPD) are primarily incapable of change. Any potential for change takes more years of treatment than any of us have or likely care to tolerate. That being said, my BPD / Cluster B always exclaimed that she would never do any of the retaliation or methods of smear campaigns that you fear. Indeed, she lied! Everytime we have had a break up due to her pushing us back to the negative bad parts of the relationship (Sabotage) for fear of being abandoned, she would smear the hell out of me on Facebook, Message family members, show up at my house. Threaten to make false allegations to the police and even physically abused me which on the 5th physical abuse, yeah the 5th I finally said enough and left! I was smeared instantly on FB, she messaged my mother and friends and even my boss as mine was an affair relationship with her at the beginning, just Bad, Horrible and Worse. My advice is yours sounds very much like mine and I would say Beware and Prepare for the worst! Are you married to this person.

[once removed]

be careful when it comes to what you read. there really isnt a "they" and there is no "always" - and by that i mean, its a complex disorder, with differing degrees of severity, traits, comorbidity...no two pwbpd, and no two relationships are the same.

the best indicator, really, is the trajectory and events of your own relationship.

FOG is an incredibly, and powerfully, difficult thing to deal with in a romantic or familial relationship. it can become a prominent part of a bond in so many ways.

she has made many threats, pulled a lot of emotional heartstrings. anyone in your situation would feel...a lot.

do you think that the fear of her being vindictive is possibly another manifestation of that? and by that i mean, when it comes to FOG, does the prospect of leaving the relationship seem so overwhelming that lots of possibilities and reasons not to pop up when you think about it?

[andrew77]

once removed,
Thank you. I actually want nothing more than for this to be over. I have no feelings of responsibility for her anymore, or fear of loss or anything like that. I simply don't want her showing up at my house, or being vindictive. That's really all there is.

[livednlearned]

If this is the first time you have said no to someone who is this deep in your lane and won't take no for an answer, it will trigger a lot of the feelings once removed mentioned.

You may want for this to be over AND you have these other feelings (fear, obligation, guilt) that are almost impossible to tolerate.

Which is perfectly natural.

One of the things running through your threads is resentment when complying with her demands. She insists you stay and so you stay. You feel resentment that she insists you stay, but you may also feel resentment and anger at yourself for not saying no and following through. Is that accurate to say?

The alternative to giving in is to say no and deal with how it feels. Not how she feels, but how you do.

She has a panic attack at the thought of abandonment; you feel fear/obligation/guilt to stay (which leads to resentment and maybe repulsion).

It sounds like you do say no to her when it comes to small things. Maybe try some of the harder ones.

With my BPD sufferer, setting boundaries took practice and it was brutal at first. It got easier but never easy.

Is there something you could work on as you prepare for your exit? In another thread you mentioned visiting family. How do you feel about telling her you're going away to visit them and use that opportunity to establish some boundaries (for yourself) so you can practice ways of managing the guilt that may come up when you finally leave?

Someone with BPD may purposefully test boundaries because if you choose her over your boundary, it means she's more important to you than xyz. Or, she experiences a fleeting sense of control (no matter how maladaptive it might be) to stop a worse thing from happening (whether it's abandonment or not).

When you recognize how your own emotions and thought processes work, it gets easier to manage what she does and say.

The goal is not just for you to leave the relationship, it's also to prevent a guilt hangover that can affect your well-being for a surprisingly long time.

Sometimes it's better to start small and work up to the big one. Small could be telling her: "I'll come over at 11am and can stay for 1 hour tops. Is an hour something you can agree to?"

Changing how you interact with her like this will feel awkward at first, which is mostly a sign you are doing something different and new. With practice it gets easier.

[mart555]

the best indicator, really, is the trajectory and events of your own relationship.

Mine never threatened me, besides "watch out if you ever leave me, it will be like a tornado" 20 years ago.  Ended up with assault charges, death threats, harassment, breach of conditions, children's aid society, one hell of a smear campaign, .. 

I never saw that coming.. but that was likely because of the FOG.

[livednlearned]

andrew77, how are things going?

[trappeddad]

been 9 years since i left my ex and her harassment towards me only gets worse.    her only goal in life is recruiting negative advocates to bad-math me in court.      her strategy is effective, so i have to pull back some unfortunately