Firing a second attorney?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

If someone has already fired one attorney during the divorce process, is it frowned upon by the court to fire a second attorney?

[alleyesonme]

If someone has already fired one attorney during the divorce process, is it frowned upon by the court to fire a second attorney?

[formflier]

I suppose it might matter why an attorney was fired? 

What is happening that leads you to ask this question?

Best,

FF

[alleyesonme]

I suppose it might matter why an attorney was fired? 

What is happening that leads you to ask this question?

Best,

FF

I have a strong feeling that my stbEX is about to fire her second attorney, and am curious as to whether or not that could benefit me.

[defogging]

I don't think it's necessarily "frowned upon" by the courts, but it can only help you if she does.  Her showing a pattern of not getting along with others will open peoples' eyes a little bit.  Probably depends on the reputation of the attorney, remember that it's a small world and the lawyers and judges most likely know each other professionally.  (I was surprised at how much of a business divorce is, and how much my lawyer knew the judges and opposing counsel)  If your ex fires two highly respected and reasonable attorneys in a short time I can only imagine the judge would view your stbx as a potential problem child.

[PearlsBefore]

It won't "benefit" you in the sense that the judges and lawyers aren't going to mention it and it won't officially affect anything, when they shuffle paperwork they'll ask if Jones still represents your ex, then be told no today it will be Masri, the clerks will shrug and fill in the new names on the paperwork. But if the judge notices it's a new lawyer and there's not a great obvious reason (nobody's allowed to ask) such as she went from most/least expensive to the other extreme suggesting finances are all that's involved...then the judge is going to assume there was a conflict of some sort.

[formflier]

I'm curious to know more how it could "benefit" you.

Most likely it will delay any and all proceedings.

"Your honor, I've only been involved in this case for xx weeks and need more time to adequately prepare".

So if delay benefits you then I think we are on the same page.  Typically delays just frustrate things.

Best,

FF

[RobertSmith]

Hi,

The 2 most frequent reason for firing an attorney is either money or thrust. Also, the reality is that this goes both ways between lawyer and client.

Imho the judge in itself will not change his mind or any ruling based on this, but will undoubtedly consider it in some form since he is also a human being after all. For example, if both attorneys were asked to do something too harsh procedure wise by their client, the judge can sometimes see it in a way. It can in the end affect the credibility of a party, but the impact is very limited on the final result.

[MeandThee29]

It certainly depends. Partway in, my ex's attorney told mine that he wanted to quit because my ex was so manipulative and difficult. He had a lot of concerns. Both were very experienced, respected attorneys who knew each other well with many decades of experience. Part of the reason I picked the one I did was that long-standing relationship.

Mine spent a good amount of time on the phone convincing my ex's attorney to stay in the game as a personal favor and didn't charge me the full amount. He told me that he had no doubt that word would spread quickly in the legal community from that attorney if he quit and that it would be very hard for my ex to find a good replacement. It would slow down the process and potentially be a major setback.

Thankfully that attorney followed through. There was some breakdown or parting after most of the legal part of closeout was done, but my attorney never got any kind of notice from his. His attorney passed away not long ago, so we may never know.

[scraps66]

That's on him, concentrate on what you are doing and can do to bring things to a safe closure.  I would consider this to be a distraction.  Now, you really need STBx to have an attorney - so you can communicate.  My ex was pro se for quite awhile and it was an excuse to not communicate.  My attorney as well took advantage and let the case languish and not move forward. 

[defogging]

The benefit alleyesonme could see is the judge/clerk/opposing counsel/anyone recognizing the PD behavior for themselves.  Don't tell them about it, let them witness it.

The same thing happened to me.  Not with judges, but with the kids' therapists.  Long story short, in the beginning we were two people who couldn't get along in the eyes of the therapists.  exPDw went off about something random, fired one of them for no reason, then the next day they wanted to speak with me more than her.  It's funny how that works.

Sit back, let the PD do their thing, and let the PD answer for their behavior.  The best thing you can do is remain stable and let things play out.  It's not a silver bullet if your ex fires her lawyer, but it can't hurt you if she does.

[ForeverDad]

The benefit alleyesonme could see is the judge/clerk/opposing counsel/anyone recognizing the PD behavior for themselves.  Don't tell them about it, let them witness it.

The same thing happened to me.  Not with judges, but with the kids' therapists...

The same thing happened to me too, but with my pediatrician.

As just one in a list of examples I could describe, back in 2007 my then-stbEx was the temp custodial parent during the two year divorce process.  She hadn't responded to the school nurse who required a minimum of vaccinations and so the school contacted me. (As it turned out afterward, ex still avoided vaccinations by filing a waiver with the school.)  Well, when I told ex I had made an appointment with the pediatrician's office, she raged at me.  What I didn't find out until much later was that she then called and raged at the pediatrician's staff, cussing them out up one side and down the other, I guess for letting me merely make an appointment.  The doctor promptly 'fired' her by sending a "withdrawal of services" notice letter to her.  (How many kindergartners lose a pediatrician?)  So what was ex to do?  She looked bad so she had to make me look worse than her.  The next week I was contacted by CPS...
(follow the link to see the rest of that story)

Whereas the pediatrician and staff had studiously ignored me previously about her poor behaviors, once it impacted their workplace they helped me but in the background within their boundaries.  This is how they handled it...  When I next reached out to them, they wouldn't talk to me and referred me to their lawyer.  Yes, doctors have lawyers.  The lawyer also wouldn't talk but did ask me whether I'd like a copy of my son's medical records.  Strange offer considering no one would talk to me, right?  So I said yes.  She said it would be printed out and I could pick it up.  I went right over and a very empathetic staffer handed me the papers at no cost.  That's how I found out she had gone too far with them.  (Once I had full custody some 6 years later I asked whether I could return to the practice but they said their policy was once fired, there was no going back.)

[alleyesonme]

Thank you all for the input/feedback. A lot has happened since my last post.

I still have a strong feeling that my stbEX is about to fire her second attorney. However, now I am strongly considering firing my second attorney as well.

The TL;DR version of it is that, over a month ago, my L told me he'd be filing an amendment to our appeal of a temporary parenting time order. The initial appeal that he filed contained accurate information in terms of very briefly stating that the order was not supported by testimony or the GAL's recommendations.

However, there were dozens of specific details contained both in the GAL report and the testimony that proved that the temporary order made no sense. My L assured me that he'd be filing the amended appeal before the judge ruled on our initial appeal. Earlier this week, we still hadn't filed it, so I asked my L when he'd be filing it, and he told me he wasn't going to file it because it wasn't "required to do so."

I said that I know it's not "required," but that it means a lot to me and I want it filed anyway, yet he still didn't do it. The very next day, the judge issued his ruling on my appeal and denied it, and even cited the fact that my appeal contained zero specific evidence as to why the original order was wrong.

I don't know how I can ever trust my L again after this, so I'm on the verge of firing him and hiring someone I can trust. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this, but I don't see any other choice at this point. Any thoughts you all can share?

[kells76]

Ugh, that's beyond frustrating. You specifically asked for something to be done, and he didn't do it. And your kid's welfare is on the line.

Two thoughts:

Wondering if it's worth it to have one last "come to Jesus" talk with your current L. Lay it all out there and see if you get ANY feedback from him about why he didn't do what you requested.

Start calling a few other L's and describe your exact situation. Ask for comment on how they'd proceed. Compare the responses you get (i.e., one might say "your L did the right thing and I would do it too", another might say "the client's needs are my #1 priority and I go above and beyond to make it happen") and even see if any of the potential new L's have feedback on your current L.

[alleyesonme]

Ugh, that's beyond frustrating. You specifically asked for something to be done, and he didn't do it. And your kid's welfare is on the line.

Two thoughts:

Wondering if it's worth it to have one last "come to Jesus" talk with your current L. Lay it all out there and see if you get ANY feedback from him about why he didn't do what you requested.

Start calling a few other L's and describe your exact situation. Ask for comment on how they'd proceed. Compare the responses you get (i.e., one might say "your L did the right thing and I would do it too", another might say "the client's needs are my #1 priority and I go above and beyond to make it happen") and even see if any of the potential new L's have feedback on your current L.

Thank you for the tips. One of the other big issues with my current L is he is very difficult to even get on the phone, let alone meet with in person. I sent that exact question in an email, but didn't get a response. It doesn't hurt to try calling one more time, though - like you said.

I really like your idea of explaining to other L's what my current L has done. Great way to get information about my current L and see what it might be like with a new one.

Like you said, my kid's welfare is on the line, and this is the most important event in my life. To just blow it off like that was shocking to me. And what's extra frustrating is that my stbEX is the disordered one, yet the court may view me as the one with issues due to firing two attorneys and her only firing one.

[formflier]

Where are you on the retainer?  If you still need to send more money in, might want to hold off until communication/resolution.

Sadly, most of them keep retainer full, so when services are over they are sending it to you, vice you sending it to them.

Best,

FF

[alleyesonme]

Where are you on the retainer?  If you still need to send more money in, might want to hold off until communication/resolution.

Sadly, most of them keep retainer full, so when services are over they are sending it to you, vice you sending it to them.

Best,

FF

Good point. I haven't used it up yet, so he would owe me money if I fire him.

[formflier]

Yeah...

I was really thinking more about that you are probably getting charged for the hours spent on the incomplete filing that was just done..

And hoping you could get some money back.

But really, you need to get an answer from him on what was up with that.  Especially since it appears that was the reason for the rejection.

Best,

FF

[alleyesonme]

Yeah...

I was really thinking more about that you are probably getting charged for the hours spent on the incomplete filing that was just done..

And hoping you could get some money back.

But really, you need to get an answer from him on what was up with that.  Especially since it appears that was the reason for the rejection.

Best,

FF

Got it - I misunderstood you.

I guess the more I think about it, there had been a bunch of smaller cuts indicating that he doesn't actually care about my case, but this was the boulder that broke the camel's back, IMO. To literally tell a client at the last minute that you aren't doing something you promised you'd do that could help his case significantly just because it "isn't required" is downright insulting. If everything had been great until then, that'd be one thing, but we weren't headed in the right direction anyway.

[formflier]

Do you have documentation that the attorney said they would amend the filing with more details?

Or was it all verbal?

Best,

FF

[alleyesonme]

Do you have documentation that the attorney said they would amend the filing with more details?

Or was it all verbal?

Best,

FF

All documented on email.