Best resource (book?) to help my adult children with their BPD mother, my Ex?

[Exhausteddadw2]

I am looking to help my two sons, now 23 and 26.  I am 10 years divorced from my BPD ex-wife.  They were 10 and 13 when I filed for divorce, which took three painful years.  They suffered greatly, and I am now seeing how hurt and damaged they still are inside.  I have gotten clear of their BPD mother; However, they are stuck with her.  I am now understanding they feel caught in the middle, and I see how much it hurts them that I have zero relationship with their mother.  I honestly still have a lot of anger at her.  She hurt me and continues to hurt them, which is really hard to watch.  The dynamic is affecting my relationship with my sons. Any advice as to how to help them is very appreciated!  Exhausted Dad w2

[kells76]

Hi and welcome, Exhausteddadw2;

You do sound tired, and we know what that's like. Having the divorce be final really isn't the end of dealing with a pwBPD (person with BPD) -- the drama continues, doesn't it.

What have you noticed about your sons that stands out as hurt/suffering for them?

How has your relationship with them changed over the years?

What would you say is the #1 concern you have for them (or for each of them individually)? I.e., is it substance abuse/reckless behavior? Or more like depression, challenges with romantic relationships, etc? Or, other?

My husband's kids' mom, while not diagnosed (to my knowledge), has strong BPD traits. Their divorce was final in 2011 and she is still manipulative, blaming, passive aggressive, and non communicative. The kids are 12 and 14 now, and I think our 12 year old will struggle with commitment and taking life seriously, and our 14 year old will struggle with ever being vulnerable in a relationship. So, yeah, I get seeing the hurt in the kids, and wanting to know how to help.

Please feel free to post whenever works for you -- we'll be here.

-kells76

[CoherentMoose]

Hello, and welcome to the board.  Have you read Walking on Eggshells?  That was the book that allowed my GF to have that "Ah Ha" moment related to all the aberrant behaviors she was dealing with.  After reading it, consider if your sons would benefit from reading it as well.  Then you can have reasonable conversations on behaviors witnessed over the years, and behaviors they have to deal with currently.  Good luck.  CoMo

[LizPA]

I also recommend the book 'Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking your life back when someone you care about has BPD'.  This book outlines BPD behavior and provides insight on how to mitigate episodes, set limits and communicate effectively.

I'm still in the thick-of-it struggling with my H's BPD, but this book has given us (me and the boys 16/18) a better insight to this disorder and has helped us to understand the behavior and not take his words/actions as personally as we did in the past.

Another book is 'I Hate You, Don't Leave Me', which is also good, but I found the first book to be more helpful in my situation.

Best of luck.
LizPA 

[lenfan]

This helped me . . .  Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship
Book by Christine Ann Lawson

[ForeverDad]

They're grown so no custody issues remain.  Besides "Stop Walking on Eggshells" I think you could help the boys — young men! — gain objective perspective of their situation.

They are adults now and have every right to decide to what extent they will allow their mother in their lives.  They are not required to stay in frequent contact with their mother.  But as my own son, now adult, confided... "She makes me scared."  So that is a factor to keep in mind.

You can teach your sons about Boundaries.  There are a couple fine topics to read on the Tools and Skills workshops board.  Click on and follow the link.

The first lesson to let sink in is that your ex almost surely resists and fights boundaries.  That's okay, because we can establish boundaries for us instead.  Sounds crazy, how can our boundaries impact the ex, right?  The articles will expound on boundaries and provide a variety of examples, but this is a simple example that helped me.  Ponder this boundary:  "If you do or do not do ____ then I will do or not do ____."

Filling in the blanks, "If you rant or rage, then I will leave and come back when you've calmed down."  You see, you can't force the other person to stop ranting and calm down, but you do have the power to walk away and leave until the other has calmed.  The goal is to (1) over time discourage the poor behavior or at least stop its influence on you and (2) take ownership of your life and make effective choices.  Maybe the disordered person will take note and change at least a little — or maybe not — but at least you know how to make a boundary that the other can't easily crush.

Henry Cloud wrote the book "Boundaries" that should be a good read.  The icing on the cake is that once you and your sons get proficient with boundary skills, then those skills will improve other aspects of your lives.

This is just a brief reply.  There are other things their mother may do that may require other strategies and skills to manage, such as when she manipulates, obligates, guilts, pressures, etc.

[Exhausteddadw2]

Thank you all so much.  Stop walking on Eggshells truly changed my life when I was living with my ex.  The book helped me understand I was not crazy.  This support family means a lot to me as well.  I am glad to learn the book is a good resource for my boys (young men) as well.  I did more research, and discovered Randi Kreger wrote the book regarding her own mother, which gives more credence that it will help the boys. 

I am worried about them being depressed, and struggling with relationships.  I have shared the Boundaries book; however, I see them cave to their mother all the time.  The way I describe it, is the emotional pain she inflicts is so great, they simply go along with he demands, just to avoid the suffering.  Truly sad, and hard to watch. 

I do my best to set a good example and show them a better way.  They are having trouble standing up for oldest is “painted black”, and the younger, “painted white”.  I am concerned the oldest is depressed, and is struggling to figure out who he is himself.  The younger I see being manipulative like his mother, and struggling with true relationships.  He doesn’t trust anyone.  Not me, only his older brother, who is not equipped to have all that responsibility. 

I shared Stop walking on eggshells with my oldest.  I am not sure he has read a word of it.  Maybe if he reaches his wits end?

My ex continues to spread lies about me, which she really believes in her alternative reality.  I let it go, as anyone who really knows me, understands it’s BS. 

My relationships with them have been up and down.  They know the truth about me and who I am; however, my ex is relentless with lies.  I remember, she would keep me up until 3am arguing I did not remember facts correctly, (different in her altered reality) so I would finally give in, just so I could get some sleep before going to work the next day.  I am sure she has not changed tactics, and hammers on them until they simply break down and agree with her.  I stay steady and just love and support them.  I do think they  are a somewhat mad at me for leaving them with her.  It hurts; however, I would not have survived longer with her.  I am happily remarried, thank God! And working really hard to help the, see the truth.  It’s a brutal reality to see your mother as a BPD.

I am working to give them the tools to live their own lives.  Thank you for the support and resources!

[Notwendy]

Would the boys be open to therapy? For me ( I have a mother with BPD) it's taken more than reading books to be able to understand the issues and to remain in contact with her and have a sort of functional relationship. ( functional doesn't means she has changed but that I have been able to manage it better on my part)

What is also likely happening is Karpman triangle dynamics where she takes victim perspective, you are the persecutor and she enlists the sons as rescuer. There is also a similar dynamic with her and the sons, paining one as the wrong one, the other as the golden child.

FWIW, I am the scapegoat child and while this has been hurtful, the issues with enmeshment are greater with the golden child, who feels more obligated to her.

One very important goal for the young men is that, since they grew up with dysfunctional dynamics, they are at risk of repeating them in their romantic relationships. They are young now, and this is a good time and good motivator for them to do this work before they get romantically involved in a long term relationship. It's not just about how to relate to their mother, but how they will relate to their future partners.

[Exhausteddadw2]

Thank you Notwendy.  Both have tried therapy.  Oldest is currently not to my knowledge, and youngest just started.  Apparently, he (golden child) has gone to the therapist with his bpd mother.  100% you are correct about the victim issue.  I read Randi K say,” you can’t out victim a BPD”, and that is very true in my experience.  The boys told me they have had some serious conversations with their mother in the last year.  From what I understand, they are intense and I a, guessing pointless.  I went to marriage counseling for three years, and ALL of our issues were my fault.  I am sure her logic has not changed. 

Thank you for the insights.   I am concerned for their relationships moving forward.   

[Notwendy]

I agree with Randi Krieger- what I have found is that if we try to discuss any issues, the pwBPD defaults to victim mode. Makes it hard ( or impossible) to achieve resolution.

A simplified version:
I'd appreciate it if you put the cap on the toothpaste so it doesn't dry out"

Victim perspective response: " I'm so tired and don't have the energy to put the cap on. How can you ask this of me? Besides if you hadn't have bought a tube with such a difficult cap, I might have been able to do that, but no, you have to go and buy the hardest to put on cap. You are so inconsiderate. Now look what you started".


or " you are always nagging me with something. I have too much to do already"


Not victim response:   "sorry, I forgot but I will remember next time"



Victim perspective does not take accountability. It "absolves" the person from any responsibility. I gets easier to identify a statement from victim perspective. When I hear this, I know the conversation is not going to get anywhere and back off from it. You can't compete with it or argue with it.


Would your boys be interested in posting here on this board? Even reading about circular arguments, the Karpman triangle, seeing the videos here would help.


Another issue is poor boundaries. One warning is that my BPD mother did discuss her relationship with my father with me ( triangulation) and with poor boundaries, told me TMI. I hope your ex isn't doing this with the boys but it is a possibility she has been too emotionally revealing to them and leans on them for too much emotional support. I was also expected to be my BPD mother's emotional caregiver, and it isn't good to put the child in that position. I hope your boys will be able to stop these conversations and have boundaries with their mother on what to talk about.

[ForeverDad]

Helping the children to gain overall perspective is a good goal.  Your question reminds me of a "fable" often referenced here, The Bridge.  Follow the link.

[mart555]

I found the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" to be excellent but I can't recall how well it would apply to kids of BPDs. 

The statement about "you can't reason with a BPD using facts or logic, no matter how hard you try" did resonate with me and could be great for your kids to, so they see that there's no point in arguing with them: it never goes anywhere. You cannot reason with them, it always ends up a spiral and against you.

They have to learn to not take the bait as well. 

[PearlsBefore]

"Stop Caretaking" as mentioned above, and the author's new December 2020 book "Raising Resilient Children With a Borderline..." (new review posted in BPDFamily book review section!) are both more of the "feel-good" book that focuses on the healthy partner, while Dr. Lawson's book above (which I cannot praise enough) is a more clinical look at the BPD parent themselves. Not knowing your sons of course, I couldn't say which is better.

Honestly, somebody showed me r/BPDmemes and I found it therapeutic just to skim through and laugh "at" the pathos of it all - could be the younger generation would appreciate that as a bandaid solution if nothing else

[Sluggo]

Not sure if good for you kids or not... 

But "RyanThomasSpeaks." was an alienated child now adult and speaks from a kids view point. 

Very engaging...  and helped me to understand what they are going through and thus be more understanding.  I have 7 kids and oldest two are the most damaged.  They are 21 and 20 yrs of age and I left home 5 years ago.   They still don't talk with me. 

https://youtu.be/4e-IPsibMJc


Sluggo

[Exhausteddadw2]

Ryan Thomas Speaks is incredibly helpful and comforting. Thank you!

[Exhausteddadw2]

The bridge is an amazing story/tool.  It helped me a ton deciding whether to go through with my divorce.  Really puts things in perspective.  I will share with the boys.  Thx!

Regarding posting and reading on this board, I am not sure they are there yet.  Stop Walking... directed me here, so maybe as they find center, they will be open to sharing.  I pray they will be able to at some point