Coping with a Spouse who doesn't recognize his illness

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

First, I just want to thank all of you for sharing your stories and advice.  I am new to the board and am grateful to have found it.  A quick summary of my situation--my husband of 15 years (together 18 years) started heavily smoking marijuana (first time user at 40 years old) when it was legalized. This past summer, after about a year of use, he started to behave very erratically--manic episodes, flights of fancy, paranoia, etc.  This past fall he had two major episodes culminating in me calling 911 both times.  He was extremely angry with me and refused to get help. (I actually found him a psychiatrist after the first emergency visit which he saw twice and then "fired.")  After the second incident, where he was experiencing hallucinations and refused to cooperate with police, he was sectioned and sent to a psychiatric hospital for 2 weeks.  When he came out, he agreed to go live with his mother in another state indefinitely. 

The situation now--It has now been 7 weeks since he was released from the hospital. He is now begging me to be given a second chance, wants to work on our marriage, see a marriage counselor (something he never wanted before).  However he is still exhibiting signs of BPD (love you/ hate you behavior, name-calling, etc.) and the worst part is he is completely convinced he's fine and it was just the marijuana that caused his behavior.  (He is seeing a therapist and psychiatrist and on meds, but he says they've told him he's fine.)  I think he's just telling them what they want to hear because he's very manipulative and good at putting on a show. In fact, looking back at the 18 years I spent with him, he always had signs of depression, and a bit of narcisstic behavior. I am so confused at this point as to what I want. If he would just acknowledge he has mental issues and is willing to work on them, I would absolutely stay with him.  The fact that he refuses to take any accountability has me backed against a wall.  We have an 11 year old child. If we didn't have him, making the decision to divorce would be so much easier. But having a child means I know he will always be in our lives. (And I want him to be in his son's life because he was a great dad up until recently and I still have hope he can be one again.)  I have decided to push for legal separation. This leaves the door open for reconciliation at some point.  I discussed this at length my therapist and she thinks it makes lot of sense.  (My therapist btw is amazing and I can tell she thinks I need to distance myself from him. She keeps telling me about how if I were in a boat with my son and my husband was trying to drown us, I'd have an obligation to save me and my son.)

Anyways, thanks for letting me share my situation. It is so hard because I still love my husband very much but I cannot live with him like this. I feel guilty and feel sad and am constantly questioning myself.  Feel free to respond if you'd like, and thank you.

[jcb2005]

First, I just want to thank all of you for sharing your stories and advice.  I am new to the board and am grateful to have found it.  A quick summary of my situation--my husband of 15 years (together 18 years) started heavily smoking marijuana (first time user at 40 years old) when it was legalized. This past summer, after about a year of use, he started to behave very erratically--manic episodes, flights of fancy, paranoia, etc.  This past fall he had two major episodes culminating in me calling 911 both times.  He was extremely angry with me and refused to get help. (I actually found him a psychiatrist after the first emergency visit which he saw twice and then "fired.")  After the second incident, where he was experiencing hallucinations and refused to cooperate with police, he was sectioned and sent to a psychiatric hospital for 2 weeks.  When he came out, he agreed to go live with his mother in another state indefinitely. 

The situation now--It has now been 7 weeks since he was released from the hospital. He is now begging me to be given a second chance, wants to work on our marriage, see a marriage counselor (something he never wanted before).  However he is still exhibiting signs of BPD (love you/ hate you behavior, name-calling, etc.) and the worst part is he is completely convinced he's fine and it was just the marijuana that caused his behavior.  (He is seeing a therapist and psychiatrist and on meds, but he says they've told him he's fine.)  I think he's just telling them what they want to hear because he's very manipulative and good at putting on a show. In fact, looking back at the 18 years I spent with him, he always had signs of depression, and a bit of narcisstic behavior. I am so confused at this point as to what I want. If he would just acknowledge he has mental issues and is willing to work on them, I would absolutely stay with him.  The fact that he refuses to take any accountability has me backed against a wall.  We have an 11 year old child. If we didn't have him, making the decision to divorce would be so much easier. But having a child means I know he will always be in our lives. (And I want him to be in his son's life because he was a great dad up until recently and I still have hope he can be one again.)  I have decided to push for legal separation. This leaves the door open for reconciliation at some point.  I discussed this at length my therapist and she thinks it makes lot of sense.  (My therapist btw is amazing and I can tell she thinks I need to distance myself from him. She keeps telling me about how if I were in a boat with my son and my husband was trying to drown us, I'd have an obligation to save me and my son.)

Anyways, thanks for letting me share my situation. It is so hard because I still love my husband very much but I cannot live with him like this. I feel guilty and feel sad and am constantly questioning myself.  Feel free to respond if you'd like, and thank you.

[ForeverDad]

   Welcome to BPDFamily.  We're sad that your family situation forced you to seek additional help but also glad that you found us.  Here you can research a wealth of practical and insightful education, communication skills, similar experiences and overall peer support.  We know, we've been there, done that.  Here is a link to click on to our Tools and Skills board.

If he would just acknowledge he has mental issues and is willing to work on them, I would absolutely stay with him.  The fact that he refuses to take any accountability has me backed against a wall.

You know your situation best.  And it's good you have a counselor to assist you in pondering your options going forward.  We hope we can do similarly too, and without the financial expense (except for donations for the site).

The thought of Legal Separation does get mentioned here but it is seldom chosen.  Why?  Multiple factors...  It is a halfway solution that can permit the core issues to continue simmering below the surface.  And is it wise for a man-woman relationship to sit virtually on hold just out of reach for years?  And of concern to us with children, will there be a struggle over custody and parenting?  If so, then there would be that struggle for Legal Separation and then again if there is a Divorce later.

I too had thoughts of Legal Separation 15 years ago when my marriage imploded.  However, that option vanished when the police got involved and allegations filed.  LS doesn't work when there is conflict, and having minor children can also make everything more complicated.  Here's what my lawyer commented when I asked about LS versus D.

I asked my lawyer about Legal Separation as a less extreme option to divorce.  He said in 17 years he had only done 2 Legal Separations and both times it was not due to conflict but for convenience (lives took different paths, for one the ex needed the health plan so they decided to stay married on paper).

Some here have commented that it's not prohibited to remarry years later if the deep issues have been addressed over time.  So in one sense Divorce does not mean there is absolutely no hope of rekindling something better in the future.  And unlike Legal Separation it does not let a (possible) false hope linger on overshadowing everything.

[MeandThee29]

You probably know this, but it's very common after a behavioral hospitalization to say "all better now" when they really aren't all better and still have a lot of work to do. Mine had a suicide attempt after the first time we separated and went to behavioral health, and I believed the "all better" declaration after he was discharged. I believed that he would stick to the plan he wrote there. Mine did a month of therapy several times a week after being released and then quit. He began relapsing just a few months later and went into a dangerous spiral that never resolved. We are divorced.

The reality is that if you are triggering at least some of the behaviors, he certainly is going to do better away from you, and then being with you again will be a huge challenge both to him and you. The hard reality is that these things take a long, long time to really stick if they stick at all.

One option we were presented was for him to go to a mental health halfway house. Perhaps that would have been better. I don't know. I do know that any remaining trust I had with him was shattered during separation. He continued to claim "all better now," and I just wasn't seeing it at all.

Then the way he acted during the divorce and closeout absolutely confirmed it. I don't have custody issues, but I completely don't want anything to do with him ever.

[CoherentMoose]

  Welcome to this board.

If your therapist is recommending distance, seriously consider setting up a strong boundary until you are out of the FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt) and can make better decisions from a place of safety. 

Suggest too you tie any movement towards reconciliation to demonstrated sobriety (mandatory drug tests), demonstrated behavior improvements, and his continuation in therapy.  DBT is highly recommended by folks in here.   

My nephew consumed a lot of pot and experienced a similar breakdown you witnessed.  My brother managed to get him into rehab, and then to a half-way house.  At the half-way house, there was mandatory attendance to AA.  My nephew has been out of the half-way house for close to a year, but he still attends AA every day.  I'm hopeful my nephew has found his path to remain sober. 

So there is hope he can get better, but hope is not a plan.  Map out and write down what will allow you to feel safe.  Post it in here and let the good folks critique it and you can decide if you want to proceed.  Good luck.  CoMo

[jcb2005]

Thank you everyone for your comments/reactions. ForeverDad, re the downsides of Separation, I hadn't thought about this side. It's hard to know at this point how contentious custody will be. It's good to know what the problems could be.

So I didn't mention this before but I am also the breadwinner. My husband has been unemployed for 7 years (I wanted him to get a job but because he was having a hard time initially after we moved for my job and because we could afford it, I accepted him staying home).  I think it hurt his self-esteem and sent him deeper into depression. He also had no friends or hobbies. Looking back, it's clear that I should have confronted him years ago but I was scared and doing the proverbial walking on eggshells around him. Anytime I mentioned getting a job, he would shut me down.

Anyways, I am going to talk to him tomorrow afternoon and I will press for him to "accept" a legal separation. I know he doesn't want one (he keeps saying why can't we work out a separation without lawyers).  But I am worried about custody and assets. If he doesn't "accept" it, I am leaning towards filing it anyways. 

Another thing I didn't mention is that Department of Child Services currently has a case open and he is not allowed to be alone with our son. He keeps telling everyone that I am responsible for it (when it was the psych hospital who called them). He's been saying that anytime I say he can be with our son again, DCS will listen to me. It's so troubling how he doesn't understand that aspect. DCS has told me that they will revisit the case in March.  I had hoped he would just wait until March to figure out the future (i.e., take 3 months off from interacting) but he's obviously not...

Is there any benefit in waiting to legally separate until after DCS closes our case? Will it make it easier? Harder? He also says he's looking for a job and I'm wondering if separating would be better if I wait until he has a job.  I'll also talk to my lawyer about it.

TIA!

[jcb2005]

By the way, rereading my posts, I think I sound overly peppy... Honestly, I am so angry sometimes I could scream or so sad I want to curl up into a ball. Most of the time I can keep it together. Especially for the sake of my son. But I really start to lose it when I think about how my husband used to be. How even though he had issues, they were pretty contained and they were buried deep. We had a lot of good times together and it makes me so sad to think about them, and how I meant to spent the rest of my life with him and it's not looking remotely likely now. 

And by the way, I know by reading all the posts here that this is common, but every time I talk to him it's like cutting my heart out every time. The things he says are so vicious, ranging from what a terrible mother/wife I was to how no one could ever love me. Mental illness is really the worst (no one can prepare you) because you can't see the illness. All you can see is this person you love acting like an out of control a-hole. I feel like half the time I'm just reminding myself that he's not well.