too much thinking about SD23

[livednlearned]

SD23 is likely BPD, is diagnosed bipolar, lives 3000 miles away, still talks to H every day and texts often, is getting better in many ways, and is coming to visit in June.

She's staying in an airbnb  

Her older sister will be here visiting the prior week. She'll also be in airbnb.

Everything is going to be fine, the visit with S23 will be short.

H and I are in a really good place where we agree that SD23 is aggrieved about me, that it isn't personal, and that I've done a good job being ... hard to pin down for SD23. Which gives us the appearance of peace and that's important to H, and to me.

SD23 is covertly aggressive and I am covertly fortified.

But.

The thing is I spend too much time preparing for her in my head. For someone who is generating 2 percent conflict (episodic things that H and I handle well imo), my brain treats her like she's generating 98 percent conflict.

I've been in talk therapy, somatic therapy. I do mindfulness. I hang out here and work things out learning how others work things out. I've done more reading than care to admit  

And yet I cannot seem to get my nervous system, brain, emotions, visceral reactions to stand down when it comes to her.

Is this the best it will get?

I booked the flights for SD23 and had to put on my big girl pants and only *think* about shortening her visit. I over-suggested to H that she fly out with her brother (because it's an easier dynamic for me). I booked an airbnb instead of a hotel so H would feel comfortable spending time there instead of our place being the main place.

And then I pushed it ... I suggested H and SD23 take a few short trips somewhere fun together since we live near islands and it's better if you stay overnight in those areas because of ferries, and offered to give them a lot of space because let's face it, H, SD23 wants to spend time with her dad...

And H's response was, "That's just feeding into (his) BPDx's bull poop about you."

 

Other than the potential wedding of SD26 that is probably years and years away, I'm not going to be seeing SD23's mom, and don't feel threatened/intimidated/concerned about her.

I felt this kind of rope tightening when he said that, even though I'm on board for minimizing conflict. Like I was getting schooled for stepping out of line.

Social niceties dictate that I participate, which I will, and I believe sometimes in families it's important to spend time with relatives you don't fully connect with. It's an obligation that I'm willing to do to a point. If my conflict with SD23 were in the open, this wouldn't be happening, but because it's all covert, there is this plausible deniability that everything is fine. It's an open-ish thing with H, it's a covert thing with SD23. Which feels right. Even though she's an adult, we are parents. Not everything has to be opened up and aired out. Or does it.

I love H so much I'm willing to do this, and it's also a well-worn groove in my own character to suck it up.

I've become so much healthier these last 10 years. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to be flexible with my boundaries.

Maybe that's why I feel so vigilant about someone who is currently a low-level threat? The more I try to be flexible (which feels very intense when it comes to SD23), the more vigilant I feel.

It used to be that H and I had these super taut wires when it came to communicating about SD23 and I would describe the tension right now as loose. Now that SD23's trip is booked, I can feel them tightening again. I prefer that to open stormy conflict and drama, which feels to me like SD23 muscling into our relationship. If H and I are fighting about SD23, that feels like BPD winning.

I don't know what I'm asking for. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to be involved and flexible when SD23 is here without giving something precious up. Maybe feeling awkwardly tense and flexible at the same time is the best it's going to get?

[kells76]

I suggested H and SD23 take a few short trips somewhere fun together since we live near islands and it's better if you stay overnight in those areas because of ferries, and offered to give them a lot of space because let's face it, H, SD23 wants to spend time with her dad...

And H's response was, "That's just feeding into (his) BPDx's bull poop about you."

To me that seems like a pivot point in the conversation.

If it had been me there, I might feel stuck. I might feel like I now *had* to do this stuff all together, because if I didn't, I'd be validating X's narrative.

What was DH's x's narrative (whether explicit or not) about you? That also seems key here. I have a couple of guesses but will sit tight.

[formflier]

You guys know that I often go to military analogies.

I'm not so sure that you are "overthinking" or "over-preparing" .

This sounds a bit odd to say...but actually getting shot at (missiles and all that) wasn't really as bad as the training to go on deployment.  OK..full disclosure...the first time or two was more of a "I better check my pants moment..." but after you realized that all the training and "methods" really worked..it was a totally different ballgame.

Most guys would be flying around...see a missile coming up and instead of "oh..am I going to die..."...it was "oh...there you are...I gotcha now."

Hang with me here...  

So, SD23 shows up and pulls out dysfunctional tool one..., instead of "oh my how dare she..my life and home are ruined.."  it's more like "oh...so that's where you  are coming from today."  And then you counter with one of the many tools you have in your toolbag. Because you are well prepared!

I'm in a bit of a mood today...so I'm going to give you a dare.

SD23 shows up...greet her warmly, maybe a hand on her arm "I'm looking forward to deepening my relationship with you..."  

Then kinda be clingy to your hubby...

 


I dare you...

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

What has actually improved with the move and increased distance?

-- Your ability to deal with D23's behaviors?
-- Your H's ability to deal with D23's behaviors?
-- D23's ability to manage her emotions and self-soothe?

Why is the Ex suddenly in the conversation?

I found it took almost ten years for me to fully disregard my H's uBPD/NPD Ex's comments and opinions of me.

[formflier]

Why is the Ex suddenly in the conversation?
 

Yeah I missed that/was wonder that as well.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

To me that seems like a pivot point in the conversation.

Wow. That's a revelation. I hadn't thought of it that way. Kind of like the switchtracking? I'm saying one thing "you guys go hang out" and he comes back with "BPDx."

What was DH's x's narrative (whether explicit or not) about you? That also seems key here. I have a couple of guesses but will sit tight.

I've confessed here that I read messages between SD23 and her mom so this is from that adventure. The gist from BPDx to SD23 is  "just wait, you'll see that I'm right" about me being some kind of $$hole.

SS21, SS26 both like me. Their grandmother and grandfather like me. BPDx's narrative is: you will find out the truth.

It's an explicit narrative in the sense that I have read explicitly in messages that I unethically read   about how BPDx talks about me. It's not explicit in the sense that SD23 doesn't know I know. It's possible that the girls have said something to H but if they have, he hasn't said anything and I'm not sure either of us cares one way or the other.

I'm not so sure that you are "overthinking" or "over-preparing" .

I don't know if it's so much "am I overthinking" versus "this is a lot of rented space in my head, what do I do."

But point taken.

It's just that it's like paper cut level. You don't necessarily notice it's happening until you feel a sting in your thumb and it's not blood but you can see there's a cut.

Because SD23 is awkward and I am a recovering pleaser, I used to put her at ease. In the months leading up to our move, I started to watch that behavior in myself. If she said something awkward, or tried to be funny but wasn't, or did something that stumped me, or tried to start a conversation that I wasn't in the mood to have, I started to internally shrug and let it go. It felt super awkward to me but was also freeing. If she tried to elicit some form of supply or reassurance from me, which is about 98 percent of the so-called positive interactions, I would reply with variations on, "huh, that must make you feel good" or (my favorite southern nicety that I picked up living in the south for 20 years) "that's nice."  

H and I are watching Vikings. I think of it like it's my own shield wall, but less frantic. I see SD23 coming and one by one my nervous system starts pulling all my fighters together, raising their shields and creating armor together.

So, SD23 shows up and pulls out dysfunctional tool one..., instead of "oh my how dare she..my life and home are ruined.."  it's more like "oh...so that's where you  are coming from today."  And then you counter with one of the many tools you have in your toolbag. Because you are well prepared!

If I'm well-prepared, why am I thinking about this months and months ahead? Usually when I feel prepared, I relax a bit.

SD23 shows up...greet her warmly, maybe a hand on her arm "I'm looking forward to deepening my relationship with you..."  

Then kinda be clingy to your hubby...

That made me laugh.

What is the end game with that, though? Messing with her?

What has actually improved with the move and increased distance?

-- Your ability to deal with D23's behaviors?
-- Your H's ability to deal with D23's behaviors?
-- D23's ability to manage her emotions and self-soothe?

Why is the Ex suddenly in the conversation?

I found it took almost ten years for me to fully disregard my H's uBPD/NPD Ex's comments and opinions of me.

Good questions.

What is improved:

*SD23 and H cannot make plans for her to come down without consulting me
*90 percent of the time H and SD23 set a time to talk. H arranges those calls around our time so it no longer interferes with our time
*H openly agrees that SD23 is work, that she is covertly aggressive, that she says one thing but does another when it comes to having a good relationship with me
*SD23 has found other family members she turns to for advice
*SD23 is no longer in an intimate relationship so those triggers are tamped down for now.
*She is lonely (like lots of people are right now), but is busy with work (teacher)

H says SD23 is doing better and I think he measures that by the quantity of texts she sends and the degree she reports on her anxieties and need for reassurance.

Honestly, I have a much different barometer and have decided "not my problem" with this stuff. It's why I think our communication has improved when it comes to SD23. Me letting him hear what he's saying and not getting in the way by talking on top of whatever rich gem he shared.

I guess that's my new better skill. I used to talk in paragraphs about this stuff, punctuated with lots of exclamation points. Now my responses are <listens> or <one sentence>.

I don't know why BPDxw came up. That's a good question. I have to think about it.

We don't have the super hard blended family in terms of involved BPD exes because our kids were older and both BPDxw moved 5 hours away and n/BPDx let go.

[formflier]

That made me laugh.

What is the end game with that, though? Messing with her?

Hmm...at first it was purely a dare.  Instead of her putting you off balance, you throw her a fastball...overtly and get her responding to you, instead of you responding to her.  Take the lead.

Now I'm thinking about the messages from BPDex to her...

I normally say avoid invalidation...but if they think you are an a-hole...the be nice and let them invalidate themselves...bigtime.

Lean in.

However, we know BPD...don't corner it.  Leave the door open.  

Oh I know...

Have a nail thing or pedicure thing set up for soon after she gets there.  Make sure there is a spot for her on the off chance she agrees.  

"Hey SD23...I'm looking forward to some girly time.  Pedicures today at (time).  Of course I understand if you would rather hang with Daddy.  He's such an awesome guy". (give him big smooch and leave them alone for a while.)

So then check in again when it's time to go get pampered.  Most likely you get a spa night by yourself.

If she takes you up on it...well...it will make for good reading on here!  

Point I'm making here.  If you are a recovering pleaser...then this is time for a new you.

Remember...she responds to you.  She can be covert all she wants...you be OVERT.


Best,

FF

[kells76]

Wow. That's a revelation. I hadn't thought of it that way. Kind of like the switchtracking? I'm saying one thing "you guys go hang out" and he comes back with "BPDx."

I think so. I think both of you weren't saying what you really meant or wanted. Just a theory, though, so we can go back and forth and you can help me understand your take/sense better.

I'm drawn back to this again:

I booked the flights for SD23 and had to put on my big girl pants and only *think* about shortening her visit. I over-suggested to H that she fly out with her brother (because it's an easier dynamic for me). I booked an airbnb instead of a hotel so H would feel comfortable spending time there instead of our place being the main place.

And then I pushed it ... I suggested H and SD23 take a few short trips somewhere fun together since we live near islands and it's better if you stay overnight in those areas because of ferries, and offered to give them a lot of space because let's face it, H, SD23 wants to spend time with her dad...

And H's response was, "That's just feeding into (his) BPDx's bull poop about you."

I wonder if what you were *really* saying was:

LnL: I don't actually want to spend time with SD23; I want to take care of myself. The covert stuff stresses me out.

But it came out as:

LnL: DH, how about you and SD23 do a bunch of stuff just you and her?

and then I wonder if what DH was *really* saying was:

DH: I love you so much that I would never want anyone to think you're a jerk, because I know the real you, and you're not. How about we do stuff together so that nobody gets the wrong impression of you?

But it came out as:

DH: Stop buying into BPDx's sh!t.

Maybe? Close?

...

The gist from BPDx to SD23 is  "just wait, you'll see that I'm right" about me being some kind of $$hole... BPDx's narrative is: you will find out the truth.

OK, so it's the classic "I'm the only one who sees behind the fake nice mask to the real awful LnL". Does she also add any kind of "I'm just such a perceptive, emotionally attuned/mature person" flavor to it (narcissistic)? Or it's more about exposing you (you are down, she is up -- BPD insecurity)?

...

More in a minute.

[livednlearned]

Have a nail thing or pedicure thing set up for soon after she gets there.  Make sure there is a spot for her on the off chance she agrees

 
I don't want to do something with her.

I'm being honest.

I suspect that doing things with her is a satisfying SD23 one-up experience for her. She is not socially enjoying the experience but she is psychologically thinking, "I got LnL to pretend she likes me"

But I get what you're suggesting, I think. That I demonstrate confidence about whether she's with me or not?

If I did something like this, it would be construed as "LnL made me go get stupid nails done and it was horrible."

That's not what I really care about because most of the family knows SD23 is always the victim and distorts stuff. It's more like what kells76 said. I don't want to do stuff with her.

Remember...she responds to you.  She can be covert all she wants...you be OVERT.

I'd prefer to not do anything one way or another that I don't want to do. I'm being honest with you guys.

To me, that's being a non-pleaser. Overt would be, "I'll wait to hear what you guys are planning and decide if I want to join." Then decide how I feel. Maybe I want to hike 5 hours with them and maybe I'd rather meet up with them for a 90-min dinner.

I think both of you weren't saying what you really meant or wanted. Just a theory, though, so we can go back and forth and you can help me understand your take/sense better.

You completely nailed it.

I wonder if what you were *really* saying was:

LnL: I don't actually want to spend time with SD23; I want to take care of myself. The covert stuff stresses me out.

Yes.

DH: I love you so much that I would never want anyone to think you're a jerk, because I know the real you, and you're not. How about we do stuff together so that nobody gets the wrong impression of you?

I really appreciate this, because H is exactly that guy. I didn't see it until you wrote it that way.

OK, so it's the classic "I'm the only one who sees behind the fake nice mask to the real awful LnL". Does she also add any kind of "I'm just such a perceptive, emotionally attuned/mature person" flavor to it (narcissistic)? Or it's more about exposing you (you are down, she is up -- BPD insecurity)?

Yes to the narcissism? I think? In one of her messages she referred to me as a "comfortable sock" who is a "gold digger" but then when she found out I was the dragging my feet on marriage I was "stupid."

We had an incident about 5 years ago. Three weeks after we moved in to our home together, SD23 came to stay with us. Then a week after she arrived H went away for 8 days with SD26 after she graduated college. I was trying to avoid paying for another semester of school and had a dissertation to write so I gave SD19 a heads up, "Hey I'm going to take advantage of this week to get this monster done. My hours will be weird and I'll be holed up working. There's lots of stuff in the fridge, so help yourself."

I can see now why someone with BPD would flip out, which she did, by blowing up H's phone. So he texted me something like, "Please talk to SD23." I wanted him to be able to enjoy his trip with SD26 so I talked to SD23 and said, "Hey, what happened? We were good, I said this and that. How come I didn't know?"

I don't think SD23 was used to that kind of thing. I was really gentle, and took a "hey, let me know when you're mad. Let's let your dad and sister have a good trip and we can take care of stuff here. How about we check in sometime during the day and I can let you know when I'm going to break and we can walk the dog or something."

That went back to BPDxw as "You were wrong about her."

I think what you're helping me realize is that I am hard for SD23 to pin down. There is maybe a small cost to me for that.

Having no cost to me would mean making it more clear how I feel about SD23 and there is a higher cost to that for H.  

To the earlier stuff, about prepping my "shield wall" this many months in advance ... I think I am engaging in covert maneuvers too. Like not helping her out socially.

It's kind of like in exchange for her covert aggression, I am subtracting my nice/pleaser behaviors. Maybe the reason why I'm fixated on this is because I want to be authentic and it's so darn complicated to do that with this third wheel set up.

[worriedStepmom]

My SD's mom can't pin me down either.  I don't react the way she expects, so she alternates between fear of me, hatred of me, trying to appease me, and ignoring me.  The fact that she yo-yos between those so quickly throws me off.  During the ignoring phases I don't have to pay much attention to her, but once she enters one of the others my internal shields get activated because I know she'll toggle between all of the other stages and it's exhausting.

You've been able to ignore SD23 because your H put some boundaries in place.  Now she's back in your orbit (or about to be), so it's no wonder you are on constant alert.

My therapist keeps reminding me that I don't need to react.  I am supposed to focus on my relationship with SD13 and tune into myself to make sure my choices are in line with my values and boundaries. 

[livednlearned]

she's back in your orbit (or about to be), so it's no wonder you are on constant alert

Does your alert system ever start to chirp even when things seem peaceful? 

I put some things together last night and realized that SD23 has reconnected with the same girl she dated in high school. The same one who attempted suicide and was (allegedly?) abusive toward SD23. They were together during the time period SD23 was experimenting with being trans gender and asking to be called by a boy's name.

I'm 98 percent certain that they are back together.

SD23 spent a lot of time vilifying this girl so it would make sense she's not disclosing to H that things are back on. I think I've also pieced together a drama triangle involving SD23's BPD mom who apparently told SD23 who she should/should not hang out with, that she has bad taste in friends. SD23 complained about this to H, who rescued with, "It's your choice, you get to decide who your friends are."

Looking back, I see an uptick in phone calls from SD23, outside the times H tries to arrange.  A couple of days there have been 3x with two handfuls of 2x day. H is back to taking her calls at awkward times, like 5 min before dinner, and early in the morning. There are more texts, both before and after the calls.

I think this is the slowly rising boil of needy behaviors that happens when SD23 is in an intimate relationship.

Ugh.

My therapist keeps reminding me that I don't need to react

Do you find that easier said than done?

Sometimes I swing far the other way and things build. Maybe that's to be expected?

I have to admit to these thoughts I'm not proud of (and rarely act on) where I pull rank for the sake of pulling rank.

I'd like to create win-win situations but those are few and far between. Sometimes I just want to zero in on win-lose situations even though I know that's the petty part of me talking.

[formflier]

I think this is the slowly rising boil of needy behaviors that happens when SD23 is in an intimate relationship.

Ugh.
 

I'll give you a double ugh..ugh..

How do you explain this..knowing what you know about BPD? 

She gets more intimate with someone...which is triggering...and then she needs more (what?) from your hubby?

And then there is the dynamic that hubby is seeing/reading/experiencing something that leads him to feel he must respond "right then".  Any idea what is being said to him?

 

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

How do you explain this..knowing what you know about BPD?

Exactly what you said --> she becomes overwhelmed by triggers.

Then she needs rescuing from H.

Except it seems to me to be a lot of red herrings. She asks for advice but it's not presented as "my supervisor gave me constructive advice like she gives all new teachers." It's "my supervisor told me I'm a terrible teacher and I should look for another career."

Or it's "I have a stomacheache and diarrhea"

Instead of "The person I'm dating won't answer my texts immediately"

You could say he validates the invalid, but that's because the distortions are world-class. He knows she does this and yet also assumes she is perceiving things accurately.

Having been on the receiving end of these distortions ...   I don't expect him to fact-check, but I do think he could get better at assuming there is another side and she is probably not the victim.

Any idea what is being said to him?

I'm trying for a "need to know" type dynamic but I notice H puts SD23 on speakerphone more than he used to. Sometimes I'll catch a few text messages and they are typically:

*I'm sick/nauseated/constipated/have diarrhea/rash/feel shaky/blurry vision/headache/lightheaded/tired/
*Mom/sister/brother/friend/coworker/relatives were mean/rude/wrong
*I'm anxious/upset because I'm being asked to do <impossible thing> for work and no one is helping/explaining

There are also a surprisingly high volume of "Dad, am I good at my job?"

 

How would H know?

Anyway, I suspect this is related to why I'm feeling so vigilant.

On a positive note, H openly acknowledged that the SD23/H/LnL triad is a challenging experience for all of us, and he's going to stop pushing it. Baby steps, guys.

I mentioned some of the social changes I've made (e.g. less is more) when it comes to SD23 and H came back with, "I'm looking forward to SD26's visit. It's too bad SD23 has her ...  issues."

It's taken a while to build up enough trust with H to get him to speak freely, even if it's a short sentence here and there.

The one upside of seeing BPD behaviors in SD23 is that there is a high degree of predictability with how she behaves.

It makes it easier for me to comment, "1 + 2 just happened. So usually that is followed by 3."

That has made H recognize I am not just firing blanks.

Almost without fail when I suspect 3 will follow 2, it does.

[formflier]

 
How would H know?

 

My brain was screaming this..before I read your next line where you wrote it.

Good grief...

That kind of discussion is so foreign to me.

FF kid :  Ugg dad...my stomach is off

FF:  Oh no.. do you have everything you need..are we out of anything?

FF kid:  Got everthing..just sucks

FF:  Ok..sorry.  Holler if you need something..I'm going to let you rest.  Love you buddy!

Or something like that.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

That kind of discussion is so foreign to me

Me too.

Although ... it's also a version of walking on eggshells. It just happens to be his (adult) kid.

Trying to balance this dynamic between supporting my spouse and protecting myself really pretzels me.

I've been thinking about saying to H that when SD23 is here, I prefer to not be in a position where I'm alone with her.

I can either maneuver to make this happen for myself, or I can discuss with him why.

Most likely it would end up being a combination of both.

It's been almost 10 years since I left my BPDx husband and there are days I cannot fully get my head around having yet another pwBPD in my life.

Feeling low on empathy at the moment. 

[formflier]

Feeling low on empathy at the moment. 

Perhaps...actually I shouldn't question your feelings.  In my case..when I feel low on empathy for my wife or her FOO.  If I sit with it long enough I realize that I'm also making a judgment that "empathizing" with their self inflicted pain/situations...is too much of a kissing cousin to "enabling".

As in...I'm not going to be part of them being stuck in dysfunction/repeating patterns.

My guess is...if you believed/had evidence she was genuinely sick...compassion and empathy would flow. 

The frustration I would have from all those calls is ok..you have (issue)...you had this issue before when you (insert her choice)...you ignored professional advice from ()...and made the choice again...and now you are asking me for my support/what you should do...

Since you obviously won't follow professional advice...not sure why were are talking...

Good luck with that...you will need it...

Judgmental FF at his finest! 

Best,

FF

[kells76]

If she didn't get in the middle of your relationship with DH, would it be easier for you to handle the relationship between her and you?

It kind of seems like if DH could "handle" things with her "more/most healthily", then it wouldn't be a 9/10 for you when she visits. Like, if you knew he "had the moves" to deal with her appropriately, then maybe you'd feel more... empowered? something? to be "you" around her in the sense of being assertive about exactly how you want/need to interact with her.

But there isn't a firewall between DH<-->LnL and DH<-->SD23, there's a lot of bleedover from DH<-->SD23 into DH<-->LnL. If that wasn't there, I just wonder if you'd feel more "free" to be like "I don't want to be around, so I'm going camping, bye". Or, conversely, to be like "sure I'll be around to do X and Y but not A or B". Something about the way she inserts herself into DH's life also inserts her into your life because it isn't just your life and DH's life, it's the life of both of you together. And you have put up the safety firewalls as best you could, but the way she gets into your life is by getting into DH's life, and unless/until DH raises his shields too, she's getting to you.

If that's anywhere near the case, that would feel intrusive, vulnerable, and gross to me, and powerless -- like, I've done everything I can to stay "safe" from this person, but they're still "getting too close to me".

At least, that's what I'm wondering, if any of that is close.

...

I went back and reread your first post, and this stuck out:

I'm trying to figure out how to be involved and flexible when SD23 is here without giving something precious up

Did you ever identify the precious thing you would be giving up?

...

All of this is to say that I know that "making someone else change" isn't how we feel better. It's not "really" true that if DH would just "get his act together" and have healthier boundaries with SD23, then you would "feel better" too. But there is a part of that that might be "true".

[worriedStepmom]

Does your alert system ever start to chirp even when things seem peaceful? 

YES.  If the peaceful goes on too long then I start anxiously waiting for the cycle to progress to the next bit of drama.  (I'm there right now.)

In your case, it seems like your subconscious picked up the signs that the drama cycle is headed into more dysfunction before your conscious mind did.

H is back to taking her calls at awkward times, like 5 min before dinner, and early in the morning. There are more texts, both before and after the calls.

So, as kells noted, her dysfunction has started bleeding into your time with H.  Has he been relaxing his boundaries on how much or when to chat with her?

Do you find that [not reacting] easier said than done?

It's easier for me because H and I do not have face-to-face contact with SD's mom ever.  AND, H doesn't have many interactions with SD's mom on his own.  I can walk away from the messages and think about whether I want to reply...and still, sometimes I choose to be petty.  I always regret it, because it escalates the situation, and I'm working on choosing better.

Would it help to brainstorm potential situations when your SD is visiting that might be uncomfortable and come up with a script for how to get out of them?

[livednlearned]

when I feel low on empathy for my wife or her FOO.  If I sit with it long enough I realize that I'm also making a judgment that "empathizing" with their self inflicted pain/situations...is too much of a kissing cousin to "enabling"

Making a judgment, as in "it's bad to be empathetic because the way I'm thinking of it = enabling?"

Judgmental FF at his finest! 

 

I seem to be much better at this when it's SD23 directly.

In the last few years I've taken to heart the focus on what I can change, even though what I really want to do is run these calls for H 

[livednlearned]

it seems like your subconscious picked up the signs that the drama cycle is headed into more dysfunction before your conscious mind did

I do have a knack for willfully ignoring things.

Has he been relaxing his boundaries on how much or when to chat with her?

Yes? Either that, or the dysegulations are increasing.

It seemed like he was guiding her to time slots better.

sometimes I choose to be petty.

I know that feeling.

Would it help to brainstorm potential situations when your SD is visiting that might be uncomfortable and come up with a script for how to get out of them?

I do and I'm also embarrassed how minor they are. I know they're in theory easy to solve. I can even imagine the advice I would give myself if I wasn't me  

For example, I don't want her to be given a key to the house when she's here. I have a girlfriend who was like, "She doesn't need to have a freakin' key!" But I'm 90 percent certain H will give her one without checking with me. So let's say I tell him in advance. How do I tell the guy who is providing everything for my ornery teen, "No, you cannot give a house key to SD23" and who is staying in an airbnb because of me (at his expense)?

H has also said he would pick SD23 up from the airport, which is 2 hours away. He'll come back here, drop her off, then he'll come here so she can unwind. Then he wants the two of us to go to her place and we can figure out what we'll do all three of us together. I just feel like it's disingenuous ... or maybe it's overly obligatory, for us to do something together, all three of us visit first thing like that.

I'm also anticipating that H will take time out each day to work out. For migraine reasons, he always works out in the afternoons. I know SD23 is going to hang out here while he does that, leaving me alone with her. He keeps talking about how SD23 an I can do a puzzle together because that's how I try to socialize with her, except that in my mind, the puzzle is for when H is cooking and there's this awkward space and the puzzle seems to diffuse the weirdness. It's not meant for me to do as an activity with SD23. It feels like I'm supposed to babysit a toddler, keeping her occupied.

There are other things I can imagine handling without conflict, similar to what we did in our old town when SD23 came to visit more frequently. Like telling H in advance to not invite me on walks with SD23 and the dog. There is a national park nearby and H has already offered to go with SD23 on his own, which is great. I want them to do things together the days they're together and say 2,3 nights we'll meet up for dinner and maybe a few mornings we can get coffee together.

This would all be so much easier if I wasn't unemployed at the moment. It's possible by then I'll have a job and the window will be smaller for interactions.

[GaGrl]

On the key issue, I would find the largest and gaudiest key chain/fob possible, tell her it's the guest key, and you'll need it back when she leaves.I

I mean...really big and tacky.

But that's just me.

[formflier]

How much time do you have before the visit?

Is there time to install a wifi lock where you can issue a code.  (like most airbnbs use)

Then give her a code that expires after the visit...and there is no reason to ever hand out keys to visitors again.

Or put a key box on the door reset the code after she leaves.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

On the key issue, I would find the largest and gaudiest key chain/fob possible

 

How much time do you have before the visit?

Months away. We're in a rental while building a house so it's not an option to modify the lock. Although I love the idea of installing a wifi lock with a code that doesn't seem to work...

Trying to have boundaries with her makes me feel like a bad person 

[I Am Redeemed]

You are not a bad person for wanting to have boundaries with her.

I suspect there is some dissonance between what you think is your role as the stepmother of your husband's kids and reality...SD23 is a lot to take on.

Just because your h hasn't nailed down boundaries yet doesn't mean you can't.

There is absolutely no reason to give her a key to your house.

There is absolutely no reason to babysit her with a puzzle to keep her occupied for your h.

If you are unemployed, you can have your own reasons for spending your time how you see fit, SD visit or not. Maybe you decided to take up your own workout routine at the exact time h is preparing dinner and SD has a puzzle to do.

You don't need to buffer or pretend or otherwise rescue h from uncomfortable situations with SD.

If your h wanted similar boundaries with your son, how would you feel? How would you respond?

[livednlearned]

IAR, thank you for the straight talk.

It helps cut through the hand wringing going on in my head.

Closer to the date I'm going to ask H if he's planning to give SD23 a key. If he says yes, I'll say something, "I'd prefer that she knocks like any other guest who comes to our home."

Last night my son (19), who has been dealing with medical issues for a few years, said he felt he would be ready to travel somewhere for his birthday, which is a few weeks after SD23 visits. I may begin laying ground work with H about being away for a portion of the time SD23 is here. That cuts a 7 day visit with her into a 3 or 4 day visit, which is more manageable.

It does make me feel like I'm trying to run away or hide.

And at the same time, I'm so happy that S19 feels healthy enough to go somewhere. We drove across the country together last summer when we moved out here and what I thought was going to be this grind of a trip turned into a bonding adventure. I love the idea of exchanging a teeth clenching SD23 visit with something I genuinely want to do.

[I Am Redeemed]

When you say it makes you feel like you are trying to run away and hide, does that mean you think you should have enough tools by now to be able to handle endure an SD visit?

Maybe your nervous system is telling you that minimal SD exposure is what is best for you right now. It's not like you are blocking her from visiting at all or planning to be gone so you don't have to see her at all because you can't deal with it. You can deal with it. It's just not that pleasant of an experience and I think it's perfectly fine to handle  endure it for a few days and then take a trip with your son.

A lifetime of exposure to people with bpd traits is enough to make anyone want to avoid them if possible. I think it's totally understandable. Avoiding can be unhealthy if done as a coping or defense mechanism without trying to learn other tools such as distress tolerance and boundary setting. But you have learned those tools. That doesn't mean you have to force yourself to face prolonged exposure to situations where those tools are necessary pretty much 100% of the time.  

If you reframe it as self care, how does cutting the amount of time you will be present for SD's visit sound?

[livednlearned]

When you say it makes you feel like you are trying to run away and hide, does that mean you think you should have enough tools by now to be able to handle endure an SD visit?

Gah. I hadn't thought about it that way, but yes. I feel I *should* have enough tools by now.

I hadn't realized I created this standard for myself until you pointed it out.

I feel like I've been the emotional leader throughout the blending of our families and managing S23 in particular. Without those skills, SD23 would have blown a hole in my marriage.

Surviving that, the next logical step seemed to be that I can endure her at minimal cost, like there's some kind of trajectory where she becomes easier for me to deal with.

A lifetime of exposure to people with bpd traits is enough to make anyone want to avoid them if possible. I think it's totally understandable. Avoiding can be unhealthy if done as a coping or defense mechanism without trying to learn other tools such as distress tolerance and boundary setting. But you have learned those tools. That doesn't mean you have to force yourself to face prolonged exposure to situations where those tools are necessary pretty much 100% of the time.

 

Thank you. This helps put so much in perspective.

If you reframe it as self care, how does cutting the amount of time you will be present for SD's visit sound?

It sounds absolutely healthy.

This is a common dilemma for me where I am able to practice self-care unless there is someone I love asking me to do otherwise, often for obligatory reasons (like H asking me to do a puzzle with SD23). Then I start negotiating with myself and struggle with guilt. If I was a little more _______ then we could take turns handling SD23 and it would spread the burden.

Last night we were talking about logistics and I said to H that the trip was 7 days and he responded, "It's more like 5.5 days when you add up the hours."

I know this is challenging for him.

I wish it were easier to be more candid with him about the challenges but that's not likely to happen. I guess the next best thing is to take care of myself and set an example for him.

[worriedStepmom]

I think it's a great compromise that H can have a few days one-on-one with his kid and you can have a few days one-on-one with yours.

Would your other stepkids be given a housekey if they were visiting and staying elsewhere?  This doesn't make much sense to me.  I always knock when visiting my parents or inlaws.

I'm surprised that H is planning all of SD23's time for her.  "I'm busy, here's an activity for you."  It seems okay for you to say - no, I have plans during the time you will be working out (even if your plan is to sit outside and read a book) so SD23 can have some free time. 

[livednlearned]

Would your other stepkids be given a housekey if they were visiting and staying elsewhere?  This doesn't make much sense to me.

Even if H gave SD26 a key, she would knock. She once told me she learned how to be a good guest by watching what her cousins did, and then she learned by being a roommate. As underfoot as SD23 is, SD26 is the polar opposite.

I'm surprised that H is planning all of SD23's time for her.

He pre-manages her.

I suppose I do, too. She does not respond to social cues the way most people do. You kind of have to head her off at the pass.

[ForeverDad]

Acceptance is a big word, sounds like you need that concept and Accept "what is", there's only so much you can do about it anyway, do your reasonable best and Let Go as much of the rest as you can.