Update

[B53]

Hi Everyone,

I’m back with an update. Many of you know my story and if you don’t and want to, then you can search my posts.

I will recap some of the key points. Like most here, my SO has BPD. He has put me through he! and back and dumped me last Oct.  He entered therapy and is working a DBT program. He wrote me in late Dec. asking me to give us another chance, that he has changed. I reluctantly agreed.  We had three major issues that need to changed to make us successful, trust, explosive behavior and empathy. There is a lot of behaviors related to the empathy. In the past I felt like I was a low priority and that at times he would blow me off.

It started out a little rocky, because we started with email and text. I was hoping to find a therapist to help with the transition. I would text him and he wouldn’t respond until the next day and I knew he got them. It didn’t feel like he was excited to have me back. I know that you can’t read tone in writing and I was feeling not heard and misunderstood, Déjà vu. I decided we needed to meet and talk or this was going to be over before it started. We talked and things went well.  Later we sat down and I told him, what I needed to be happy in a relationship.  It was a long conversation. I told him that what I needed now, was to be able to trust that what he says he will do and to feel connection, to feel like I was a priority and not just a thought in passing. The agreement that was made, was he was going to call me on the days he wasn’t here to check up on how we were each feeling (an emotional check in) and that we have a standing date on Friday and Saturday starting at 7pm. If he stayed over night or during the day that was up to him.

So everything is going well until; The day before Valentine’s day we made plans as to how to spend V day. It’s the morning of Valentine’s Day and his daughter calls (she is 24 and lives 12 hrs. away) and is crying because her dog is at the vet in ICU.  The dog is old and she has had her since she was 10. I’m sure over the years with her father being BPD it was more than just a pet, a support dog. I understood and there didn’t need to be a discussion, he needed to be there for her, so he left right away and drove 12hrs. straight through to Florida. During the drive we talked on the phone several times, several of the conversations lasting 3 to 4 hrs. I was trying to make the drive easier and wanted to support him while he supports his daughter.

Here is where the problem begins. When he is with his daughter she is in charge. He can’t call me or text me and I can’t call him or text him. This is not new. When we met, the first few times we went anywhere with her, I sat in the back seat and she sat in the front. If he gives me a gift or we have plans to go somewhere, I can’t mention it if his daughter is around. This is an issue but there were so many other BPD issues that this was minor in comparison, so it has never been addressed. He knows it is a problem. She was living in the same town at the time and he was living with me and if he had dinner or spent the day with her, I felt they deserved their time together and I could respect that, so if he didn’t communicate with me I was ok with it.

His daughter does like me. The day before they were suppose to drive down to Florida (this was before we broke up) he went BP on her. Everything he did to me, he was doing to her. She was cowering in a chair while he ranted. Then he asked me if he was right. I told him he was 100% wrong and told him to look at her and see what he was doing. He could have broken up with me then, but I wasn’t going to let him abuse her, while I was there. He left and I went over and hugged her and she burst into tears and said that wasn’t anything compared to other episodes he has had and she feels like she is all alone in the world. At that point, she was ready to go to Florida and write him off. I told her that he is in therapy and he is trying to change and we both need to give him a chance. He came back and said he was sorry, which was a first, they made up and things have been good between them ever since.

Now he is in Florida and he has to wait until she goes to bed to call me and whispers so she can’t hear him.  The dog died two days later and he calls me crying and she is flipping out. I’m there to be supportive for him. I am also proud that he is able to show his daughter some empathy, something he couldn’t do in the past. She falls apart over the dog dying and is grieving. It is not for me to judge how people grieve, but I have known people who have lost a child be in more control.  She is putting cut flowers all over her apartment, everywhere the dog has ever been and every day now is an anniversary as to how long the dog has been dead for.  I texted and told her how sorry I was and that when she came home that I would sew the dog’s bandanas together and make her a pillow.

I’m still okay with everything up to this point. We have short conversations at night, which is all the connection that I need. Then on Saturday his daughter is doing school work (she is getting her Doctorate) and he calls me from the park. We talk and he says I’ll call you tonight.  So that night I stay up and wait for his call. At 1pm, he texts, sorry I didn’t call, goodnight. This is where the disappointment comes in. I thought that we were starting a new relationship and I trusted, believed that he would call when he said he would. If he didn’t know if he could call, then he shouldn’t have said anything. I had just talked to him; I would have been ok with it. I was upset, because he didn’t follow threw. I still can’t believe what he says, they are just more words. The next night he called, short conversation, still hurt about the day before, but something we can address when he got home. Wasn’t going to make it a big deal. Then I don’t hear from him for two days except one text about the TV show he was watching and goodnight.

It had only been a week and he was already blowing me off. I have been understanding and I was there for him and he is right back to same old behavior. The talks we had and agreements we made no longer apply. After his two days of not calling he texted me his excuses. They may have been true, but I believed he would call, so why should I believe him now.  I didn’t respond, I’ve heard those words so many times before. Then he texted me later that day, saying he was checking in to see how I was doing. I texted that I was hanging in there. The whole week he was there he didn’t check in the middle of the day to see how I was feeling, it’s all been about his daughter and him.  All of a sudden I become important when I’m no longer there at his beckon call. He texted back  ? and I responded that it wasn’t the time or place to discuss my feelings and I didn’t want to do it at 11:30 at night when he has to hide from his daughter. I told him to take care of himself and his daughter. I no longer want to be part of the triangle.  Our relationship is on a weak foundation and if I continue then it won’t make it. I told him to call me when he gets home.  All this time he hasn’t missed a day of work, that’s allowed. By the time he leaves Florida, it will have been away at least a month.

I now know there wouldn’t be any calls, no disappointments.

I know it’s hard to see your child in pain and it takes a lot out of you, because last year I took three weeks off work to take care of my daughter who was suffering from severe panic attacks. I didn’t shut him out.  He was BPD and didn't make that situation easy.

I could understand if this happened because of the dog’s death, but this isn’t new, he has done this to me again and again. What adult let’s a 24-year-old dictate who and when he can talk or text someone? It isn’t her fault it is his, he is allowing it. Just the fact that he would let this happen shows how much he values me.  It’s like I am the mistress and he has to sneak away from his wife. We contacted a couple’s counselor and she was willing to see us, but maybe she has dropped us, since we haven’t made an appointment. I will wait and see what the outcome is and if it is possible to move forward, but from the way I am feeling now, I’m probably done.

He is not going to change just because I have a need. He has to do this for himself. If I am of some value to him then he will do what needs to be done so I will want to stay. You know, water a plant it lives, don’t it dies. There is someone out there who would love to have me by their side and it wouldn’t be hard to find someone to treat me better. The bar is low.

B53

[formflier]

Hmmm...please don't take this as argument or criticism.  Take as a possibly helpful point of view.

Axioms:  He doesn't do big emotions well...  Is that fair?

Massive emotions involved with distraught daughter.  I have daughters (and wife) that are big pet people.  Hey..I get attached to them as well.

So...most "normal" people could have big emotions during this time and be inconsistent with their relationships to others.

Yet..he isn't..."normal".  You would expect him to be on the extremes.

So...I would advise you to resist "evaluating" any of this to mean certain things about your relationship. 

Perhaps put it another way.

Maybe this is a time "you can be there for him" instead of him rising to the occasion to meet your needs.

How does this perspective sound to you?

Best,

FF

[B53]

FF,

I was actually expecting you to point out that I was insensitive and expecting too much.  You had me until “Maybe it’s time “you can be there for him”, instead of him rising to the occasion.” Your right, he doesn’t do big emotions. It’s not that I don’t feel for him or understand the pain from loss, after all that was me four months ago after he walked out on me for the sixth time. I’m still trying to heal from that pain. One month together hasn’t magically erased the last two and a half years. It’s like expecting a car to run without gas. I’m running on empty and I don’t have anything right now to offer to others. He has used it all up. We all have certain things we need for us to be happy. I may be asking to much of him, but I know that my expectations are not unrealistic, because this has never been an issue in any past relationship. It was a natural part of the give and take. At some point we both need to accept that he is unable to give me what I need. That doesn’t make him a bad person, but me continuously telling him what I need and him letting me down and expecting me to stay, is selfish. At some point it needs to end. Maybe this could have been the time to show me that he can be the guy that he keeps promising me he can be.

You don’t get it. I’m AWAYS there for him. I could write a detailed list of all the times I have been there for him. He has been there for me ZERO. I have emails from him admitting he has never been there for me, but he always says next time it will be different, but next time never comes. Our whole relationship was about him. You live with a BPD, how often is it about you? Other than the people here, who feels our pain, where is our credit. We give, they take. How many times is Charlie Brown going to let Lucy hold the ball? This situation has nothing to do with the death of her dog, this is about him.

I have not talked to one person that thinks this is ok and I work with preschool teachers who have nothing but empathy for children and most everybody else. 

As teachers and parents, our job is to teach children boundaries, independence, to be able to go out into the world and be happy. A 24-year-old should not be running a 64 yr. old man’s life. He makes it very clear that he doesn’t like the situation, but he is afraid of what she will do if he stands up to her, which makes her a bully by definition.  If he hadn’t let her be in charge, this situation would never have happened. He could have given me a quick call sometime during the day, I would be happy and supportive, he wouldn’t feel like she is sucking the life out of him, he could cope better and be there for her. The situation would be sad and there would be grieving but there would be a healthy support system for all involved. These dynamics where set up long ago, way before me and he created this mess and now he has to deal with the natural consequences. I’m collateral damage. This situation is actually doing her a disservice; her emotional age is not that of a healthy 24 yr. old. Imagine how the poor guy who gets mixed up with her is going to be treated. It is obvious who will be in charge. But, like I said before, this really isn’t about her.

Here is the irony, he broke up with his last girlfriend because her son was rude to him and she wouldn’t do anything about it. 

[formflier]



As teachers and parents, our job is to teach children boundaries, independence, to be able to go out into the world and be happy. 

Good point..what have you taught him over the last few weeks?

Best,

FF

[B53]

Sadly, nothing. He is the victim.

[formflier]

Sadly, nothing. He is the victim.

Hmm...I see that I didn't ask the question very well. 

We'll never know what he actually learned or understood.  Let me rephrase...what did you intend to teach him/show him through your leadership in the relationship over the past couple of weeks.

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

B53, it sounds painful what you've been through. I feel for you deeply on the adult child triangle. I struggle with that, and can only imagine how painful it is to feel sidelined at a time you're trying to rebuild trust with your BF.

Is your preference to work through the disappointment and sadness here with people who understand (vent)?

And, or

Are you looking for post-mortem feedback to help process what happened?

It sounds like you are done and wanting to move on ... is that accurate to say?

After my BPD marriage failed, I was motivated to look at my stuff only because I didn't want to repeat it going forward with someone else. Some people like to do this when it's raw and others prefer to wait when it's less painful. Others work it out in the next relationship. Some remain repeat customers  

We're all different and what's best isn't the same for all.

Any thoughts on what you'd prefer?

[B53]

Livednlearned,

Thank you for your reply, you always have a way of making me think and feel cared about.

He came home earlier than I thought. He came to talk, but his stance was that of annoyance and not open to hearing what I had to say , he was in a BPD episode. He put his head in his hands and said, “I can’t make you happy” said it was over and walked out. I didn’t even say much. I vented here, but none of that was said to him, I was calm. One thing he has always said is  how accurately I can read him. What I saw was a broken man at the end of his rope. I still believe that I should be able to say how I feel. I thought everything was going to be so different and I am questioning if I am right back in the cycle. If that is his decision, it shouldn’t be made with everyone so emotionally charged and on edge. He has said in the past that his daughter was starting to act like his ex-wife, who he hates and when he got there,  he was already saying her behavior was troubling.  I think more went on then her just having him on a short leash, because he looked traumatized.

So I texted him and said that our talk hadn’t gone as I hoped and     could we talk again before a final decision is made.

I just keep thinking that if we had some guidance that maybe we could turn this around. If we got an impartial third party’s advice then maybe we could see things in a different light. I really want to be a good partner even if I don’t end up with him. I am willing to look at how I negatively contribute to a relationship. On the other hand am I just being a fool? I really don’t know.

B53

[formflier]

  I still believe that I should be able to say how I feel.

I'm curious to explore this more.  Can you give examples of when you said how you feel?  How did that go? 

What about times when you did not.

 

So I texted him and said that our talk hadn’t gone as I hoped and     could we talk again before a final decision is made.

How did you want him to understand this?


 

I am willing to look at how I negatively contribute to a relationship.

And also how you positively contribute..right?

On the other hand am I just being a fool? I really don’t know.

Clarity..I don't think you are being a fool...not even close. 

My hope is that we can guide you to understand these dynamics better.  It's hard stuff to know in general and then each particular relationship can have unique things in it.

We've got your back on this...we are on your side. 

Best,

FF

[B53]

Livednlearned,

I not sure what I want in response to my posts. I guess clarity. How ever I do it, I don’t want to work it out in a another relationship.

FF

What I said is, that when he said that he would call me, I believed him, I waited up until 1pm and then the next two nights, he didn't call me at all. We have only been doing this four four weeks. Four months ago I was grieving like your daughter. I said that I'm struggling too and that right now that connection that we had talked about is a lifeline to me. He didn't listen, he was hostile and he said, "I thought that you would support me".  All I could think was,( i didn't say it) don't I always. That's my job here.

His daughter has made it perfectly clear that she doesn’t want him to have anyone else in his life. There has been screaming battles between them over this. She is an only child and has gotten all of his attention. Mom isn't in the picture.

I actually understand part of why she feels this way, because which ever one of us he is with, the other one becomes an afterthought and the decision is made by what suits him best. He has a weekly FaceTime with his daughter on Sunday. The first weekend we were back together he canceled it because he wanted to be with me. He made excuses to her why he couldn’t talk, but they weren’t true. If she knew the real reason she would have flipped out. That was their time and it should have been his top priority, not seen as something he can dismiss because there is something else he wants to do. The next weekend he called, but he expressed to me that he wasn’t up for it.  It’s sad to believe that connecting with the person you say you love can turn into a chore.  This is what he does to me when he is with her. 

What I want, is for him to realize that people aren’t something that you tend to when it’s convenient. It’s sad to believe that I’m back in this situation because I took a leap of faith and believed him when he said that he was in this to make it work. Right now I feel broken, I am trying to build trust and to do that I need a sense of connection, dependability and routine. He told me he was going to call me, it was the offer he made and I took him at his word. I waited up until 1am to only get a text, sorry I didn’t call goodnight. He went to bed, no concerns. It was all too familiar and I was really hurt. Then two nights, no call at all. Up until then he called me everyday. I couldn’t reach out, call or text, I’m just out there hanging around until he decides to show up again. It had only been four weeks since we were back together.

The other thing I would like him to do is look at a situation and choose what is right, not going along with something that is hurtful to others to keep the peace. Have some integrity.

I realized that this thing with his daughter was a big deal and required his attention, but should that then just make me a choice. He managed to work everyday, he managed with her, but I am no longer a priority. If I had done all the things he has done to me and made the promises he made, I would crawl out of my death bed before I would disappoint him again. But that is who I am as a person, not him.

I had no idea the extent of the control that was going on with his daughter. I knew that she had these rules, but I guess I just didn’t believe that there wouldn’t be exceptions made. I can’t believe that someone would ask that of another person. She is calling all her friends for support and he is not allowed to reach out to anyone as if his life is of no value. All he is allowed to have is her. The fact that he is complicit and has chosen to except her demands to the detriment of a loving relationship is mind boggling to me. Should her dog dying take precedence over what is right and what is wrong? Are there times where it’s ok to bully someone?

I really don’t know where to go from here. I’m so confused. This isn’t about just one issue. To be honest, right now I don’t want to see him., but I don’t want to end it. There is a lot to sort out and this is above my pay grade. I don’t even know where to begin.

When we talk about his BPD personalities, I call the acting out one, the other guy. The one that came yesterday was that guy.  If he texts to talk, I am going to ask him to come when the other guy is gone because nothing good can happen when he shows up.


B53

[livednlearned]

B53, how much of the conflict is based around his daughter?

If it's isolated (but intense), it might help to separate that issue for now.

It sounds like there is some kind of two-way loyalty bind going on between them, and the wobbly reset you're working on was positively tornadoed by this latest incident.

So, on one hand, you two were going to try to get things to a better place and there's a lot to do (some of it logistics, like getting to a counselor)

AND

This thing with the daughter is an issue that will probably be the hardest one you deal with as a couple.

Do you feel you and he can separate these things out so they aren't entwined?

It seems to be he came back defensive knowing that he disappointed you and canceled himself first before you could do it.

Sometimes the best thing to do is exude an air of confidence to make it safe for him. Less is more. Easy breezy.

That's if you want to finish what you started (counseling), which doesn't mean you have to stay together, it simply means you get some sunshine on what's happening, for better or for worse.

Therapy often opens a door and we don't always know what will walk through.

[B53]

L,

I think you have a good perspective on the situation. You seem to be able to put in words, my many paragraphs of rambling.

Ultimately, I guess it’s all about his daughter. She wants me gone and if not gone, under her control.  Everything was already set in place and along came the perfect storm. If you think about it, he was held captive and all forms of communication were taken away. Isolation is a powerful tool.  when the dog died he dutifully took his roll. She didn’t even have to be manipulative.

What is difficult to determine is his level of BPD. He can be so normal. He is not as scattered as I read about here. At the moment cheating is not a possibility. He has a moral code. That doesn’t mean he won’t immediately jump right  back on a dating site if this ends.

My worry is how long is it going to be before the nice guy returns. I feel venerable and since I reached out to him, he could use that to his advantage, if he decides to play games.I’m in a place we’re I not sure I can make wise decisions. I hope we make it counseling.
B53

[formflier]

Hey B53

I had some drive time yesterday and your post/situation was something that I considered for a good while.

One thing I've always appreciated about this site is people rarely "tell you exactly what to do", instead "they give helpful perspective".  (Just a few days ago poster suggested a "gottman perspective" to something I was embroiled in and I was like.."oh..well of course that seems so clear and different now...")

And...I didn't read those posts as "I was wrong"...instead I read them as "I didn't have the full story.."

I'm a big fan of axioms

1.  There will be backsliding (for whatever the issue is)

2.  BPD will affect all other relationships (especially close ones)

3.  Boundaries go both ways.


As I read your posts you were pleased with the "reset" and "new direction" of the relationship.  It appears to me there has been a "backslide".  I would encourage you to move past it quickly.  These things will get less and less over time.  I can't imagine lingering there will help the relationship.

I'm not "justifying" a backslide...yet it's also important to realize when one is perhaps coming.   (see axiom 2)  Add in grief and the intense emotions around that (do BPDish people do intense emotions well or productively?)     With the first 2 axioms in mind, I'm curious if you would do the evening differently where he didn't call..after he promised he would call.  

Boundaries go both ways:  What do I mean by that?  Just like I  have boundaries to keep people out of "my business"...those same boundaries insist that I "stay out of their business".

The fact that he is complicit and has chosen to except her demands to the detriment of a loving relationship is mind boggling to me. Should her dog dying take precedence over what is right and what is wrong? Are there times where it’s ok to bully someone?

Personal example:  I have contempt for the way my in-laws raised and treat my wife.  "Contempt" is sometimes a polite way of expressing it...   In their family, I can't imagine they will ever do relationships in a way that begins to earn my approval...

That's not my deal to fix...and I realized I was much happier being blissfully ignorant about as much of it as I can be.  For years we didn't speak.  We've spoken more in the past several months that in the past several years.  

Nothing is fixed...nothing is reconciled...nothing is discussed (that matters).  Yet I can be polite and even though they may do offensive things..I don't have to be offended (that's my choice on how to respond...they don't get a vote)

Listen...I get the dynamic between father and daughter.   Seems "unhealthy" (again a polite way of expressing it).  I can't imagine...simply can't imagine...that you deciding to cede any of your brainspace to that relationship will help you or your relationship(s) in any way.

That doesn't make it right or ok or any of that.  

How do you feel after reading this?  Does asking you how you feel and what you think seem like vastly different questions to you?  

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

Ultimately, I guess it’s all about his daughter

BPD tends to drive all participants in the relationship hard into their respective roles. Persecutor, rescuer, victim are the three points on the karpman drama triangle.

With the daughter, this is a classic conflict and she is playing for keeps. The roles will feel rigid, and there will be ultimatums.

As my dad likes to say, You can't win a pissing match with a skunk 

Does anything in the article on the karpman drama triangle resonate?

I like how you said above that "he was in a BPD episode."

You knew.

The next thing is to ask, "What can I do for myself to get off the triangle" and then figure out how to 1) redirect conflict, while trying to avoid 2) building resentment.

Sometimes it's easier to do 1) and harder to do 2).

And sometimes there is a lot of work that goes into getting into the headspace to manage both 1) and 2).

[formflier]

And sometimes there is a lot of work that goes into getting into the headspace to manage both 1) and 2).

And it's not like "one time work".  I still have to "remember" or "see" that these dynamics are at play...or potentially at play. 

Best,

FF

[B53]

FF,
This time we are on the same page.

When it comes to the not calling, that was something I needed to do for me. With my present need of connection, even when I would tell myself it wasn’t a big deal, I was still waiting for his calls . If I was in a better place emotionally, it wouldn’t have been an issue to begin with. Right now I’m just depleted. I can get past this BPD event. Emotions are high. I can justify the backslide if he later has some perspective. I’m not going to let him make me the villain.  I was thinking of course he is mad, because I said this or that but then I realized, that’s what I wrote here or journaled. The only thing I have said to him is, not to call me and that is what I need to do for me. I ended with a kissing heart emoji.  Didn’t even finish what I was saying when he was here, he just made up his own story in his head. I guess someone needed to be the bad guy and he picked me, of course.
 
The situation with his daughter has always been there, but it wasn’t a big deal. I believe in family time and I would be respectful of that anyway. I don’t think I was prepared for the long term. I was thinking , that she couldn’t possibly expect him to be there three weeks and not call me. I also didn’t think he would allow her to dictate what he can or can not do. Even in grieving, it shouldn’t mean that she can be disrespectful and mean. The problem is, that he never set boundaries and this wasn’t the time to start. She had complete control.He is not in denial, he just isn’t dealing with it. He has shared traits about her that he dislikes.

I don’t have a problem with her when we are together. She isn’t disrespectful to my face. She told her dad that I was good for him. It’s just she doesn’t want to share.

I’m not sure what you mean about boundaries going both ways. Do you think I crossed a boundary? I will respect boundaries, if they a reasonable. I am not going to give someone permission to be abusive just so there aren’t waves.

L, I will read the article and get back to you. I was actually searching for an article on that subject, but couldn’t find one. Thanks

Thank you both for your thoughts, they were helpful.

B53

[B53]

Ff,
All relationships are hard work, it is just that BPD has a whole set of ever changing rules. I’m willing to learn, but not willing to sell my sole.

[formflier]

I’m not sure what you mean about boundaries going both ways. Do you think I crossed a boundary? I will respect boundaries, if they a reasonable. I am not going to give someone permission to be abusive just so there aren’t waves.

 

I think you should let them do their relationship..according to their rules.  Probably best to minimize the amount you listen and talk to your SO about it.

I used to think I could or should influence my wife's family.  Their ways of doing things are multi-generational...my efforts to influence that are likely wasted.  I can simply not participate and live my life..be polite when I see them.

And...not talk to my wife much about them.  When she is fired up about them..validate..give her a hug and move along.

Don't give their relationship very much brainspace...I bet you feel better quickly.

He says he will call...you want a connection and it's getting late...call him.

"Hey babe...it's getting late.  Just needed to hear your voice before I get some sleep.  Good night!" 

Then get a good nights sleep.

How is all of this sounding?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Ff,
All relationships are hard work, it is just that BPD has a whole set of ever changing rules. I’m willing to learn, but not willing to sell my sole.

What if you picked a set of rules..and stuck to them.  Maybe your SO can have 2 sets...or 10 million.  

What if?

Best,

FF

[B53]

LL,

A few messages just went back and forth. He is still on a roll and I am being painted black. He ran off a list about everything that is was wrong with me. I started to reply back and defend myself, but i erased every thing and I replied "point taken." He turned that into a negative. I replied back "point taken meant "I was listening" I'm learning. He said I need ground rules. What I wanted to say is, "
rules are exactly what I want , but I want a counselor to help write them up. I think in time of deregulation, he will say that they are all the things I want. I also think the ground rules may end up bing projection.

It would be easy to not get involved in their behavior. I rather not be around it anyway. The problem that I see is that he knows something is wrong and wants out of her clutches. On one occasion he said he didn't like her. He was talking about her actions. He has said many times that she is starting to act like her mother.  I think he is battling that in her head. The other problem is that something is wrong there. The loving thing would be getting her help. She is going to have miserable life if she doesn't work through it.

I wonder if the couples counselor would work with them too. That's if we ever make it there. 

[B53]

L,
The drama triangle did apply to this situation. I may go back and reread it. That is one reason I bowed out. I also felt that her rules ended up affecting me. I am not letting her control me.

I wonder how much of his behavior to me was a result of me setting a boundary. He was using me as the rescuer. He is mad that I left him with her.
thanks,

B53

[B53]

FF,
I thought I would explain the NC thing better. First there where the feelings. He didn’t follow through with what he said, he didn’t stay connected when it was something that I really needed and the night that he didn’t call me when said, he stayed up until 1pm with his daughter, but because of her he couldn’t call. By not calling because of his daughter, it meant that in a way she was then controlling me too. I was also enabling her, by enable him to go a long with . Now you could say that the NC was setting a boundary and it actually was, but that was not the real reason. All that was happening was affecting me emotionally and reminders of the past. I couldn’t talk to him about it because he didn’t call to talk and I couldn’t call him. I was having trouble sleeping and eating. 

Have you ever heard of Schrödinger’s cat. “It is a thought experiment that illustrates an apparent paradox of quantum superposition”.
The short version is that you theoretically put a cat in a box. Until you actually open the box, the cat can either be dead or alive. By asking him not to call, then he could either be thinking about me or not thinking about me. I don’t know and I’m not waiting for a call to  either make me happy or disappoint me. I know what to expect, which is no call. It ultimately reduced the stress I was feeling. Does that make sense?

B53

[formflier]

So...trying to better understand your apparent lack of attempt to call him...or otherwise attempt a form of communication that night?

How do you know what he was doing/who he was with/how he made his decisions if you were not in communication?

I'm a bit worried about conveying the wrong "tone" in this text format...I'm kinda scratching my head a bit here.  My guess is my point of view is a bit off...trying to catch up.

Best,

FF

[B53]

FF,
I couldn’t call him, his daughter had set down rules that I was not allowed to call or text him and he was not allowed to call or text me and it was expected of me to follow her rules. When he did call me it was whispering under the covers after she went to bed. The last thing I was going to do was challenge that, when there was the grieving issue..if I had broken these rules, she would have thrown a temper tantrum. My sister called him and he cut her short, not something he would usually do.

I would not have been upset that night if he hadn’t said he was going to call. I wouldn’t have waited it up.  I had already talked to him that day.  There is an issue of trust, which we had talked about when we were getting back together. If you tell me something then do it or don’t say it. He will say something at the moment to make me happy and then not follow through. Things I wouldn’t care about, but if he tells me then I expect it. It ‘s constant disappointment. Kind like, if you’re going to talk the talk, then walk the walk. I am not a demanding person, throw me a few crumbs and then I am happy, but stop filling me with expectations that are never followed through. He has a weekly FaceTime with his daughter and he will make up an excuse if he doesn’t feel like it. Like he is tired, not feeling well. This is a commitment he has made and he should keep, unless there is a really good reason. People are not something you blow off because it just doesn’t suit you at the moment.

I know what he was doing because he texted at 1am, which is around when SNL is over, which we watch together every Saturday. He was awake because he said sorry I didn’t call, goodnight. Since she required him to be where she wanted all the time, all he had was to play on his computer ( if she allowed that, don’t know) or watch tv. He couldn’t even leave to walk around the block.to call me. The orders where not to be in touch with me, period! He had to be with her all the time. She let him go to a park, which was the first time he left and the last time he called me. He is her b!tch, so to speak.

This is an article which explains the total dynamics of their relationship.

2. Power shift.

By spoiling her, he creates a monster. Daddy has a weak self-image, so pours all of himself into his daughter throughout her childhood, but soon finds, that as an adult, he loses control over her and she begins dictating and running his life. She selfishly applies rules to him she does not apply to herself. He is expected to be her doting assistant, where she can short-notice cancel plans on him, but he would be punished for doing this to her.

As adults, enmeshed fathers and daughters don’t fight or disagree, they break up. Their relationship has the dynamics of an unhealthy romantic relationship or marriage, where everything is based in intensity and fluctuates between love or hate. Whereas, a healthy marriage is one between two equals. A Daddy’s Girl has no experience with equality. For her, equality is experienced as a demotion, so will never allow Daddy to have another woman in his life. She will rage, abandon and tantrum until she manipulates her way back into being number one. Out of guilt, Daddy succumbs. She knows just how to prey upon his guilt. She does not see him as a separate person with needs and desires of his own. His only desire should be her.

She actually told him one time that he already had his life and he didn’t need to have anyone else.  When he asked if she expected him to be alone without anyone, she said yes. I am not making this up. She has been trying to find a way to get rid of me from the beginning and it didn’t work, because I just stayed out of the way. But this time she held all the cards because her dog died and he wouldn’t do anything to upset her. She held him hostage and took away his lifeline to the out side world. She watched to make sure he stayed in line.

B53

[formflier]

So...you guys were in communication but not voice communication.  Do I have that right?

Why did your sister call?

I think a more clear picture is forming (at least for me)...trying to nail down details here.


Best,

FF

[B53]

FF,

Yes we texted some and he was unkind, so I didn't engage.

My sister called him because he has part ownership in a beach house we own. He is doing some of the renovations and she needed info. He has put a lot of work into this house and he really loves the place. Even if we are not together, we won’t have to see each other because we can go down at different times and my sister can handle the communication from there. Now his daughter is trying to get him to sell his part. She wants to get rid of anything that attaches him to someone other than her. I asked him if he was going to let his daughter make him get rid of everything he loves.

I can have a difficult time trying to express my feelings in writing and sometimes feel misunderstood. As you noticed, I don’t do well when I think someone implies that I am something that I am not. I have worked very hard to be the best partner I can be, with who ever I am with. If I am doing something that causes a negative affect on others, I want to know and I want to change it. It is easier for me to speak my piece here, because no one really knows me. I am actually a quiet, introverted person.

I have tried not to get involved with the situation with him and his daughter, it’s not my place, until it affects me. I have and will be hard on him now, because he is trying to make me the bad guy and I have said and done very little. Everybody looks at things from a different perspective. I feel his daughter has a serious problem and maybe the few terrible weeks, will be a wakeup call for him. It may look like I am being unkind, but actually I’m being caring and loving. What is going on is going to affect her future. If this continues they both will have a difficult life ahead and that can be helped. This is the same concept as your child being a drug addict. Parents often give their children money or enable them to continue their addiction, thinking it is better than having them on the street. Unfortunately, it never works. Ask anyone who treats addicts, they need to hit rock bottom before they get serious about getting help. When parent’s enable their children, they are doing it to make themselves feel better, not what is best for their children.  This is similar, there is no happy future ahead if this isn’t addressed. It can continue if he wants, but I will not be a part of it. I will give him my thoughts if he asks and I will support him through the process if he wants. He thanks me all the time for figuring out that he has BPD and encouraging him to get help. He is a lot happier and his life is better and hopefully it will continue to head in that direction. His relationship with his daughter is better also, now it is time to help her. It is said that you can’t change what you don’t acknowledge. If I have to be the bad guy to make something happen, then I willing to and it will be easier on him if he wants me by his side for support. I care a lot about her and in the other areas of her life, she is impressive. She is going to accomplish a lot in her professional field. 

I guess I have said all that needs to be said about his daughter, it is up to him and I will move on, if that is what he wishes.

Thank you so much for investing time to help me through this. I wish I could do the same for you, but I have read your posts and am not sure that I can add anything of value, but know that I am quietly supporting you.

B53

[formflier]

  I have worked very hard to be the best partner I can be, with who ever I am with. 

This is so obvious and your partner is very lucky to have you in his life.


A lot of the work I continue to do is to better understand the drama triangle.  (Please don't take anything I post to suggest "I got this...", I certainly have more work to do)
 
Please spend a lot of time reading and attempting to apply these principles

I've lost count of the times I've read the article above.  I would encourage you to be deliberate about reading it a couple of times today.  Then try to take small pieces of the situation with you, pwBPD's daughter and your pwBPD and see what role each of the "might" be playing.

Try it on...see if it fits.  Then move them around...can it fit in other ways.

Step 1 is to "see it". 

Let's come back later and work on "what to do or not do about it".

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

Please spend a lot of time reading and attempting to apply these principles

I've lost count of the times I've read the article above. 

Me too 

I've tried to apply it to the specifics of the drama with my adult step daughter and needed a lot of micro-help from friends here because it feels and seems more complex when you're in it. 

Sometimes you have to experiment to see what works, often you have to try that thing a few times to really know. It helps to focus on one thing that tends to be a pattern.

[B53]

Thanks,
Reading  about the triangle, made things very clear. I feel like with out even knowing it, I realized that it existed. I felt like she was driving the bus and I wanted off. I tend to be one of those people (INFJ)that takes on the tone of a room or situation and knows when something isn’t right, but I can’t always put my finger on what is wrong. Other than with his daughter there  aren’t any three people situations to complete the triangle and luckily she lives in Florida. I will study it more.

 I haven’t heard from him and he hasn’t said anything about picking up his stuff. Maybe it is over, who knows.

Do you believe in past lives? I’m skeptical, but lean more to the believing side. These relationships match up well with karmic relationships. Not to be confused with soulmates. Karmic relationships are addictive and there is a lot of drama and difficult to break away from.  If you have any free time, check it out, it’s interesting.

B53

[formflier]

So...can you sketch out who was playing what role?

What would the article suggest that you have done?  Or perhaps what do you wish you could have done differently?

Best,

FF