At a cross roads

[out of energy]

Hi all,

I'm a 36yo straight man. I've had 3 serious relationships in my life - the first two didn't work out because of geography and differences over having kids. After 5 years of fairly steady drinking and a lot of short-term dating, I met my ex-wBPD in late 2017.

She told me she had BPD after a couple months, when we were still in the honeymoon phase. I foolishly did not research the disorder at the time because I had only ever had stable romantic relationships (or cut off unstable ones very early) and have always been stable myself. It wasn't until well into this relationship that I first experienced anxiety and depression and could begin to relate to what she was going through.

From late 2017-early 2020, we broke up and got back together three times. I did things wrong - I never cheated on her but she caught me looking at other women until I trained myself not to do so - but at the same time she invented out of whole cloth a bunch of other transgressions. What is more, while I constantly forgave the innumerable times she hurt me, she appears to lack any capacity for forgiveness. She has an almost-encyclopedic recall of everything I've done wrong and every conversation we've had, except that many of her memories can't be squared with my own. What is more, she insists that I shoulder the blame and always says that, whenever I point to something she did wrong, it was only because I'd done something to provoke her.

In 2019 I paid a couple grand to get her therapy with a provider she at first liked, but she quit after a couple months when she said she wasn't getting anything out of it that she couldn't learn from the Linehan book. She told me she tried therapy again during lockdown but similarly quit after a couple months. Since we broke up in February 2020 she has been living with the guy she met immediately after me, but continues to tell me that I'm her true love and she wants to be with me forever.

After repeated breakups, her insisting that I cut off numerous friendships (certain of which are with truly unimpeachable people who never did a thing wrong to her), and her refusal to commit to therapy, I am pretty much out of hope. The problem is that she ticked basically every box I have, and I'm a very picky person. Moreover, she doesn't display many of the traits that some of the more malevolent people w/ BPD seem to display. She never hit me that hard, and she only ever destroyed a stool and a picture frame during her episodes. She's dedicated to caring for her family, she saved lives during covid working as a nurse, she shares my core beliefs, and she doesn't care about any of the BS that seems to preoccupy women (and perhaps men, though I'm not trying to date men so I don't see it) who are part of my generation.

I can't imagine I'll ever love another woman the way I loved her. I know there's a good person buried deep in there - I refuse to believe it was just a facade. But I also remember all the nights she would poke me all night long to deprive me of sleep, use screaming as a tactic while picking fights after midnight (I live in a city and was worried about noise complaints from my neighbors), and the way she tried to destroy some of my relationships with my friends. She also blames me for everything and has "diagnosed" me with narcissistic personality disorder. While I have some narcissistic tendencies the people who know me best confirm that I do not have a personality disorder.

I feel that if she committed to DBT I could be with her forever. I've just now started dating again after a year off b/c of the virus, and I forgot how little I have in common with most people. I don't want to throw in the towel. But while I'm not happy right now, at least I'm not miserable the way I was when I was sharing a bed with her and had to put up with her constant abuse. I also know that DBT takes years to be successful. Do I tell her that I'd be open to talking in 2023 if she brings receipts from her therapist? I'm aware that makes me sound like an awful person, but I wouldn't put it beyond her to lie to get back with me.

I don't know what to do. I feel like I can't be happy again with anyone else (after going on dates with hundreds of women in my lifetime I feel this is an informed opinion) but I know I'll be miserable with her unless she changes. But when she isn't in a swing she is a fundamentally good person and I don't want to give up on her. I know I may be codependent and trying to act as her savior, but at this point I honestly don't care. I feel like it's a lifetime of going through the motions with other girls or rolling the personality disorder dice on her getting better.

I hope that some of you can relate to what I'm going through and share your insights.

Thanks.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[out of energy]

Sorry, this may actually be better in the Conflicted Board. But I feel I'm in between the two and if I violated the rules by posting here I truly apologize.

[Cat Familiar]

There’s a lot to unpack here. And you’ve posted on the correct board, as you’d like to get back together with her.

But you don’t want her the way she is. You want who you think she could be, should she commit to years of DBT.

As she currently is:
She invented transgressions that you allegedly did.
She lacks capacity for forgiveness.
She remembers everything you did wrong, while refusing to take accountability for her own misdeeds.
She lives with another guy, but tells you you’re her true love.
She only hit you somewhat hard and didn’t destroy many of your possessions.
She used sleep deprivation and screaming fits to try to control you.
She tried to destroy your friendships.
She blames you for everything and has decided you are a narcissist.
She abused you constantly when you shared a bed with her.

Yet...
She shares your values and ticks every box, though she refuses to commit to therapy.

You believe there is a good person there, and you don’t think you’ll ever meet anyone who will favorably compare to her.

You don’t care that you may be codependent and trying to act as her savior.
                                                ###

I would agree that you sound codependent. It seems evident after listing all the behaviors that you were willing to put up with. Here’s an article that might be beneficial for you to read. Something that may not have occurred to you is how demeaning it is for her if she is aware that you think she needs “saving”. And how very conditional it is that you’d gladly have her back after years of DBT, providing she shows receipts.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

I would guess that you grew up in a family where one member had a personality disorder. Most people who grew up in healthy families would be reluctant to enter into a relationship with someone who manifested the traits you have listed. Those of us who had a family member with a PD often are not scared away by such behavior, as it seems familiar.

Another thing to consider is that personality disorders are lifelong. That said, behavior can improve with commitment to therapy, something that most people with BPD are unfortunately reluctant to do.

So you can’t just have “the good side” of her, even if she does DBT for several years. She is all that you see, both sides, and to tell her you only want the best side of her will be very invalidating for her to hear.

[out of energy]

Thank you - there's a lot to digest here and it's frankly startling even just having my own words succinctly said back to me. I'll take some time to think about it - thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

[truthdevotee]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

Thanks for sharing this brilliant link Cat.

The info leads to further info about family systems. This is completely new for me. Lots to study and learn.

[out of energy]

After giving it further consideration, I fear that I may not be an ideal partner for her. I guess I never really thought about the guilt/pressure I was putting on her at the same time.

Cat, are you in a position to recommend any books or other resources on codependency? Since it isn't DSM5-recognized it may prove difficult for a layperson to separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't really have the time or, frankly, the money to see a psychologist at the moment.

[Cat Familiar]

Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie

Facing Codependence by Pia Melody

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist by Marsalis Fjelstad

These are all well respected authors that we recommend.

Part of the issue with codependency is that it’s so ingrained in our culture (the happily ever after romantic myth), our families (the perfect obedient child). Yes, we need to be interdependent on one another, but healthy in the process, with good boundaries.

Where it becomes problematic is when it becomes a part of our identity that we are only good people because we are saving others, who may not have any wish at all for our “saving.”

Instead of healing our own childhood wounds, we try to heal others, and in the process of doing so, we create an imbalance in the relationship. Others, feeling this judgment, respond in less than optimal ways, and so it goes...until we realize the pattern and learn healthy boundaries.

[out of energy]

Just ordered the Fjelstad book. Hopefully it will help.

Thank you for taking the time to listen.