lying

[1oldhen]

My 17-year-old daughter lies constantly, to the point where we can't believe anything she says. Today she went to her weekly volunteer work at the local animal rescue, and she took her backpack, then got the owner to take her to the ER for a broken foot that she says we refused to have looked at. She had just spent 4 hours shoveling out stalls and walking animals, and she just walked two miles on this so-called broken foot. My husband is an ER nurse, and we knew there was nothing wrong. Now she's told the police that my husband is a sadist, that we commit medical abuse, and that I'm an "extreme borderline". She wanted the police to put her in a foster home, but the owner of the animal rescue is taking her in. She's plotting to run away to Europe, apparently. She lies to everyone, and she has absolutely no friends. Do all borderlines lie like this? We've been living a nightmare life for three years with her now (when her symptoms really showed themselves), and I have a stomach and small intestine full of ulcers. I'm completely burned out and grief stricken at this point. She's been in therapy for years.  She hated her DBT group and quit it after three sessions. Help!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Isabel2]

I understand your situation completely.  Our daughter tells lies to get attention or things that she wants.  Most often the lies have been about medical neglect and abuse from us or from her  boyfriend.  The most frustrating has been not only has she told people lies about abuse but has also slandered us on social networking multiple times  Our daughter was at college last semester with a full meal plan and weekly money for toiletries. She told us she did not like the food there.  She also won't work.  So, she wrote on social networking that we did not give her enough money, she did not have any food and requested that people venmo her money so that she could eat.  It is embarrassing. I don't have much advice other than I think this is a common behavior for people with BPD.  One thing that did help some for was while she was at home we put cameras in common areas of the house which stopped some of the strange destructive things would happen which were always blamed on other people, mostly her siblings. It also gave us proof that her claimed abuse did not happen or as you are saying she was walking perfectly fine 2 hours ago when later she would claim she had problems or injuries and that we refused to get her medical attention.  While she was a minor at home we insisted that she went to counseling...so it was also nice when she would tell the therapist things such as her dad threw her on the ground we could show the video that clearly shows her making herself fall on the ground and then claiming abuse because she was not happy with some rule or restriction at home.  This is the behavior that scares me the most as claims of abuse can cause people real legal problems and/or disrupt their lives greatly.  In counseling sometimes they would work on trying to get her to admit the lies, even with proof of videos but she never did...she would usually claim that people took her words out of context or that she had not said those things such as when she told her cousins her boyfriend was hitting her and started crying that she just meant play hitting and not real hitting.  So, it was always someone else's fault for not understanding what she was really saying or that other people were lying when confronted about her false claims of abuse.   

[1oldhen]

Isabel2, everything you just said is EXACTLY what we have been going through. Thank you for sharing it. It makes me feel a bit better to know we're not alone or crazy!

[Sancho]

I was glad to come across your post yesterday 1oldhen. Someone had just pointed out all the stuff BPD dd was posting online. I already knew she was painting a picture - totally false - to get attention, but seeing it one more time was deflating.

Then I came here, saw your post and felt 'Yea I'm not alone'.

Many years ago my BPD dd and I were invited to a hen's do. She was quiet and okay for quite a while then I could feel her starting to build up to something, so we left. On the way home I asked her 'Do you feel bad if you are not getting attention'. She said 'I feel like I'm going to die'.

Bagging me gets attention. When they get to know me, I can see they start thinking what they have been told is not the case.

From what I have seen of my dd over the years, the lying, story telling starts off as a means of getting attention. But then it crosses over into something that is real for her. At this point in time we have totally different narratives about the past 15 years.

I think this is part of the 'borderline' symptoms ie the brain is somewhere between psychosis and neurosis.

If you look at others posts you will find it's a common thing - so yes I think definitely part of the disorder.

[1oldhen]

Sancho, I feel your pain! My daughter actually believes her own lies, and that really scares me. She really was abused by my ex husband, but now she starts to accuse us of some of the same stuff. Sometimes that even makes me doubt the stories of abuse at the hands of my ex, and that makes me sad. She'll bump her foot and say it's fine (which it is), and then three weeks later she goes to an ER and tells the police that for three weeks we've refused to take her to ER for a broken foot. She says we're guilty of "medical abuse". It's embarrassing to me to have her behave this way. She now has no friends (mothers won't let their kids hang out with her). I know I have to let go of the embarrassment, but it's hard.

[Sancho]

Yes that is the scary part. It's like no matter what you say, how much evidence there is to the contrary, it will not change the fact that they think what they are saying is true!

I think my BPD dd also has histrionic personality disorder - the attention seeking is such a deep part of her personality that it has driven her into a fantasy world.

I need to find time to do some more research on all this. I understand the lack of emotional control, anger etc much better than I can understand how lying fits into it all.

It makes you feel you just can't connect with the person at all - and that is a sadness we carry every day!

[1oldhen]

Exactly, Sancho. The lying has kind of ruined our relationship. I don't know if I will ever believe anything she says. I don't know if she apologizes, if I'll believe her even then. I'm very uneasy around her, I feel I don't know her. One day she's trans, the next she's a girl, the next she's gender fluid, then trans again, then DID with 14 alters, then female, then trans. ALL WITH DIFFERENT NAMES! She just moved out, after accusing us yet again of all sorts of abuse, especially medical (for not taking her to ER for a stubbed foot, when she never asked to go to ER in the first place). Luckily, the owner of a local animal rescue, where our daughter volunteers, is taking her in. She lives there and works full time. At this point, we feel that it's better for everyone if she doesn't live here. She's almost 18. I feel quite pessimistic about a relationship over the long term.

[beatricex]

hi 1oldhen,
Yes, my step-daughter is a compulsive liar.

Here is an interesting article on it, that I refer to often when trying to understand her behavior

https://psychcentral.com/blog/caregivers/2014/09/6-subtle-characteristics-of-the-pathological-liar#1

In her case, she's in her early 30's and has two children so the lying is more embellishing things to make it sound better than it really is.  Examples:  I am getting this great new job, you won't have to worry me (we have given her a lot of money in the past and are cosigners on her current apartment)... I have a great new boyfriend, I'm going to have a baby with him! (later we found out he's a drug dealer and had several girlfriends at the same time)...This girl is my Best Friend (she had 100's of friends, and was no way our daughter's best friend)...  I am going to be a nurse (she dropped out of college after actually getting into a nursing program). 

My husband and I suppose this is so she can feel better about herself, because she is constantly comparing herself to others and feels bad.

Now her sister is the more likely one to lie and say we're abusing her.  But, she's probably NPD, not BPD.


Sorry you are going through this, letting her move out is a good plan.
b

[Isabel2]

1oldhen as you mentioned I think gender identity changing is also common.  During the earlier teen years our DD also constantly changed her gender identity and often her name...but she did have a set of names that it switched between.  When our daughter was finally diagnosed with BPD, they also diagnosed her with other things including histrionic.  So I think her need to constantly have medical disorders, injuries and claiming she had been abused is in part attention getting behavior and also to get people to take care of her.  She would get extensions on assignments, have friends carrying her backpack and books for her at school etc. due to her invented disorders, pain and abuse.

[beatricex]

hi again 1oldhen,

OK, so I mentioned one step daughter but should probably talk a bit more about the other (one is the flying monkey to the other, so I sometimes confuse them).  I am super worried she will accuse someone of molesting her kids.  She hasn't done it yet, but has implied it of her bio Mom's new husband (she says things like he seems like a child molester).  She infers it a lot, even about me or other people - that we're somehow not safe around kids.

I don't know that this is normal or common with NPD'd or BPD'd people.  My Mom is also BPD'd and never accused any specific man of even being creepy, when some actually were!  But she did instill a general fear of men in me, from a very young age.  It was the "stranger danger" era.  Kind of funny, when she did the most harm to me, over many years of abuse, much greater than any creepy stranger.

My youngest step daughter lied to get her Dad to start talking to her again, once.  She claims a guy came into the makeup store she was working in "and started choking her." 
Why do I think it was a lie?  Well, she's in a very elite neighborhood and that is the sort of thing that would make the nightly news here, .  Also, the store had cameras?  Also, why not tell the store manager and call the police so this guy can be arrested? 

So, story doesn't really hold up.  But it worked, my husband was so worried about her he returned her phone call.  That was her foot in the door.  Subject was changed immediately, when my husband pressed for details (that's in the article by the way, that they don't worry they'll get caught in their lies).

We do think since she is currently estranged from us that she's lying about us to her in-laws and husband.  I mean, to not be talking to your Dad at all, and he is never allowed to see his grandkids, is pretty drastic.  So, there must be some doosey of a lie being told about what we did to deserve this.

I could probably fill pages and pages of their lies, but yes, it's pretty common in my experience.  I believe it goes along with the personality disorder.

b