Feels like the end...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

I feel like I am wearing out my welcome, and probably repeating myself over and over.

So... I was in day 10 of no contact when my very angry partner reached out and texted me this morning about something nonsensical. I engaged briefly, and politely, and encouraged her to reach back out when she was ready.

Tonight, she wrote me this long nasty text, which is about her third of this sort during this break up time of the last few weeks, and she wrote out point by point explaining how and why it is obvious that I don’t really love her and that I am filling a void with her, and I am still hung up on my ex-wife.  It completely breaks my heart to hear her interpret things this way.

Upon looking at each and every infraction, and there were many over the year and a half I’ve known her, if I didn’t know that there were two ways of looking at each point, I would believe her when she says I am a complete bullPLEASE READter and I am completely disingenuous… And a narcissist.

However, in my heart, each and everything that she said had a reasonable and rational explanation. She has never ever wanted to accept the alternative explanation that I have offered for these terrible things that I have done.  She thinks I am all talk and no action.

So, tonight, we went back-and-forth by text about 15 times, and she was pretty unequivocably that there was no chance in hell that she was ever going to reach out to me again. After reading everything that she wrote, I could completely understand that she wouldn’t, but she is delusional. Almost nothing she said made a ton of sense. I tried not to explain anything or rationalize anything, but to just read what she said and try to respond by being thoughtful and honest. It just got worse and worse the more I did that.

I think I know what I have to do. I pretty much have to let this girl go. I’ve done everything that I could to try to reach into her heart, and there’s just no reaching. She has her game plan set out, and that’s to eradicate me from her life.  I think she is pretty determined, but it’s hard to say. If I go by the theory that I have read here and other places, she is splitting, and almost nothing that she is saying can be taken to heart.  Would this be accurate?

Have any of you heard anything quite this desperate and actually gotten through it? How do you come back from someone telling you they will never reach out to you again, and give you this long laundry list of all these terrible things that you did that prove to them that you are no good and will never love them?

My last text to her was that I loved her, I will miss her, and that I would always be happy to hear from her if she ever decided to forgive me for the things I’ve done to hurt her.

Does this sound at all survivable? This isn’t even close to the girl that she is when she’s not splitting.

Thoughts would be appreciated… I’m definitely struggling.

[Mr. Kelly]

Hi all,

I feel like I am wearing out my welcome, and probably repeating myself over and over.

So... I was in day 10 of no contact when my very angry partner reached out and texted me this morning about something nonsensical. I engaged briefly, and politely, and encouraged her to reach back out when she was ready.

Tonight, she wrote me this long nasty text, which is about her third of this sort during this break up time of the last few weeks, and she wrote out point by point explaining how and why it is obvious that I don’t really love her and that I am filling a void with her, and I am still hung up on my ex-wife.  It completely breaks my heart to hear her interpret things this way.

Upon looking at each and every infraction, and there were many over the year and a half I’ve known her, if I didn’t know that there were two ways of looking at each point, I would believe her when she says I am a complete bullPLEASE READter and I am completely disingenuous… And a narcissist.

However, in my heart, each and everything that she said had a reasonable and rational explanation. She has never ever wanted to accept the alternative explanation that I have offered for these terrible things that I have done.  She thinks I am all talk and no action.

So, tonight, we went back-and-forth by text about 15 times, and she was pretty unequivocably that there was no chance in hell that she was ever going to reach out to me again. After reading everything that she wrote, I could completely understand that she wouldn’t, but she is delusional. Almost nothing she said made a ton of sense. I tried not to explain anything or rationalize anything, but to just read what she said and try to respond by being thoughtful and honest. It just got worse and worse the more I did that.

I think I know what I have to do. I pretty much have to let this girl go. I’ve done everything that I could to try to reach into her heart, and there’s just no reaching. She has her game plan set out, and that’s to eradicate me from her life.  I think she is pretty determined, but it’s hard to say. If I go by the theory that I have read here and other places, she is splitting, and almost nothing that she is saying can be taken to heart.  Would this be accurate?

Have any of you heard anything quite this desperate and actually gotten through it? How do you come back from someone telling you they will never reach out to you again, and give you this long laundry list of all these terrible things that you did that prove to them that you are no good and will never love them?

My last text to her was that I loved her, I will miss her, and that I would always be happy to hear from her if she ever decided to forgive me for the things I’ve done to hurt her.

Does this sound at all survivable? This isn’t even close to the girl that she is when she’s not splitting.

Thoughts would be appreciated… I’m definitely struggling.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[once removed]

quite possibly, the most important aspect of loving someone with bpd traits is the skill of listening with empathy.

its not arguing, its not defending ourselves, its not changing our loved ones mind.

its understanding where they are coming from. from there, its far easier to work.

if your ex partner is letting you have it, giving you the business about how everything about the relationship was your fault, its not the time to defend yourself or to argue. its about emotionality boiling over, and what, if anything, you can gleam that they are trying to communicate between the lines. its about emotionally stepping back, and looking at it from a detached perspective.

whats the story on her feelings about your ex wife, in your words, and in her words?

[Ventak]

If I go by the theory that I have read here and other places, she is splitting, and almost nothing that she is saying can be taken to heart.  Would this be accurate?

Yes.  Very accurate in my experience.

Have any of you heard anything quite this desperate and actually gotten through it? How do you come back from someone telling you they will never reach out to you again, and give you this long laundry list of all these terrible things that you did that prove to them that you are no good and will never love them?

Does this sound at all survivable? This isn’t even close to the girl that she is when she’s not splitting.

There are many resources on this site that will help you get tools to come back from this and have better relationship going forward.  Many people with more experience than I... trust them.

That said, I have been through that mill at least ten times a year for the past 10 years and it is survivable and feels desperate at first.  In my case my W has recently become violent after stopping psych meds she was on for 25 years... she was arrested and I haven't heard from her in two weeks.  I still believe we can survive, if I want to do my standard Caretaker role.

[Mr. Kelly]

quite possibly, the most important aspect of loving someone with bpd traits is the skill of listening with empathy.

its not arguing, its not defending ourselves, its not changing our loved ones mind.

its understanding where they are coming from. from there, its far easier to work.

if your ex partner is letting you have it, giving you the business about how everything about the relationship was your fault, its not the time to defend yourself or to argue. its about emotionality boiling over, and what, if anything, you can gleam that they are trying to communicate between the lines. its about emotionally stepping back, and looking at it from a detached perspective.

whats the story on her feelings about your ex wife, in your words, and in her words?

Thank you, OR.

I tried really hard to be empathetic and a good listener tonight. I didn’t really try to argue with her at all, other than to reiterate, over and over that everything that I am saying about loving her is true and it’s what I feel in my heart. I stuck to my guns and didn’t get rattled… several times I said I have always loved her, will always love her, and will always be happy to hear from her after the dust settles a bit if she is interested.

That’s mostly what I said… I tried over and over again to tell her that I am here, I am listening, and I am trying to understand what she is saying. That was turned around and aimed at me each and every time, with her saying that I am incapable of understanding or hearing what she is saying, because I am “just not getting it“.  Multiple times I wrote and asked her what I could do to make her feel better, and what I could do differently that could bring about a positive outcome. Even that was met with hostility.  She said I am all words, and she is done with it. My actions speak way louder than words. I won’t move forward because I’m stuck on my ex-wife.

As for my ex-wife, she has brought up detail after detail about how I went to my ex-wife about something before I talked with her about it. I don’t see it that way, at all, but she has real examples, and in her mind, they make perfect sense.  On the surface to an outsider, they might.

I’ll give you an example. Back in November, I got a shocking telephone call from the lab that I was Covid positive. I was in the car sitting next to my 13-year-old daughter, and knew that this would involve her, and likely having to send her over to her mother’s.  Of course I felt like I had to call her mother right away and discuss the logistics… Her mother had been hounding me to call the lab and get the results, since it had been several days. I didn’t think much about it. She was the obvious first call.  Plus, if I’m not mistaken, my lady friend was at work in an emergency room, and I had never called her there before.  Only text.

My lady friend used that as a weapon, saying that the first call I made was to my ex-wife, even given the fact that my lady friend is a nurse practitioner, and is in the medical field. I already knew what I needed to do, I needed to get my daughter out of there.  My lady friend doesn’t see it that way, and saw it as a betrayal of allegiance.  First I ever heard of this betrayal was within the last few weeks.  She had been filing that one away in her head unbeknownst to me.  She can only see this is another piece of evidence that I was thinking of my ex-wife more than her. This is a small example, and there are many others.

There are some other bigger ones. I had an interesting ring that I wore on my pinky for about the first six months I knew my girlfriend. I believed that it had at one time belonged to my ex-wife, but it was lying around the house, and I think my daughter had it for a while... but I did like the ring a lot. I had never worn a decorative ring before.

Yes, it did make me feel a bit connected to my ex-wife, and she’s right about that. I didn’t know she knew it was my ex-wife‘s, until after she got upset about it.  I don’t remember ever telling her that, so in some ways she is right on that one. I took it off immediately after that.  It was inappropriate for me to wear that ring in her presence. She is still pissed about that one, and maybe she’s right. I wasn’t letting go of my marriage, however, I think it was less about my ex-wife, and more about a time period, and the loss of a family, perhaps.  I discussed that with her multiple times. I do still care for my ex-wife, and I made the mistake of telling my girlfriend early on that there will always be a part of my heart with her, but just a small part. That was a big mistake that I thought I was telling someone who was stable. Bad thing to do.

Sadly, about six months later, we went on vacation, and we vowed to find a ring to replace that ring that would represent her and me.  It took the entire week long vacation to find a ring that I truly liked, and even that caused a split, because she said I was dragging my heels. No amount of trying to convince her that I just hadn’t seen anything I liked made any sense to her. She thought I was stalling.

Then, to make matters worse, over the next four months, that much larger ring began to get beaten and chipped away, and it was also hard to do things with it on because the ring was so thick.  I Discussed that with her and told her that I was worried it was going to get broken, or lost, so I took the ring off and put it in a special place on my bureau. That has been a recurring theme during splits that I wouldn’t wear her ring, despite me telling her that I love that ring, and to me it represents her, no matter where it is. Thinking back, maybe I should’ve just worn it.  Maybe, subconsciously, it was becoming hard for me to wear it, given how unstable we had been over the last six months, but I think my heart was just unwilling to see that ring get broken and beat up. To me, that’s a much worse fate.  She was having none of that theory, though.

Well, in light of all of these infractions, perhaps some of them held a little bit of weight, but most of them not, this girl is cooked, and I don’t see her coming back anytime soon. I think it’s done, once and for all, which is sad, since it’s so does not need to be that way.

She said that she knows full well when a Man loves her, and she is not feeling it in the way she should. I will interpret that as meaning that her man needs to cower to her every demand, and not show any kind of real independence or thinking of their own. That’s what it feels like, anyway.  Anytime I try to explain over the time I’ve known her that what she is thinking it’s not accurate, she would get very hostile.

I could never tell her that most of these infractions have come because of my lack of trust of her to be stable, and she has proven that over and over again. That’s probably the saddest part. She can’t help it. But neither can I. In many ways, I think fate has waived it’s ugly hand.

[Cat Familiar]

I think I see what the problem is. Over and over you’ve invalidated her. You’ve done it with good intentions, trying to explain how you see things.

How she hears that is that you are saying what she thinks and feels is wrong and you’re going to inform her what is correct.

I see this because I’ve done this myself, desperately trying to set the record straight about my intentions. What I didn’t understand was how demeaning it was to my partner to hear that I thought his opinion was full of  . That wasn’t my intent at all, but that’s how he interpreted it.

That’s why we tell people not to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). I kept telling myself that I wasn’t justifying, arguing, or defending, but I had to explain how he was misinterpreting my intentions. Doesn’t matter, it still added up to invalidating him.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Today I asked him to make a phone call that he was a bit reluctant to do. I even brought him the phone. He told me, “You’re really a pain in the azz.” And I heartily agreed, saying, “Yeah, I’m working on getting even better at that.” He said, “I don’t think you need to try any harder.” And we both laughed.

[Mr. Kelly]

I think I see what the problem is. Over and over you’ve invalidated her. You’ve done it with good intentions, trying to explain how you see things.

How she hears that is that you are saying what she thinks and feels is wrong and you’re going to inform her what is correct

You are absolutely right, cat… Thank you.

Sadly, even me saying, I love you, I want you as part of my life, and I will be happy to do whatever I can to help make you feel better (which is all I have really said over the last several exchanges)... seems to invalidate her. I don’t know how to change that.  Might be too little too late, I’m afraid.

Ultimately, I think I’ve done almost everything I can. The ball is entirely in her court, although I think she feels there are too many strikes for this batter to stay in the game. Again, almost everything is exacerbated in her brain, but there’s no way to change that. As you say, any attempt to explain things invalidates how she feels.

What more can I do, at this point?  should I reach out to her, maybe in a few weeks, and just try to listen to what she is saying?

Ultimately, when I read between the lines, what she says she wants is action. She says I’m all words. We talked about her moving in here about a year ago, but we haven’t been stable enough for me to enact that.  She mentioned me not moving forward with that in her break up letter, even though we hadn’t talked about it for 2/3 of the year. She’s keeping score, all right.

I don’t even feel like I could talk about the issue of her moving in without her feeling insulted and devalued. I can’t talk about her mental health with her, although there was a time last summer when I told her that our Relationship is unstable, and that we would need to improve that to move forward. She didn’t split on me when I said that, but it was directly upon reconciliation, so maybe she still felt some hope.

At this point, I’m just trying to figure out what I can do next, if anything.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? :-)