BPD WIFE. SCARED TO DIVORCE

[WalkingonEggshel]

Hello all,

I have reached a point where I would like to divorce as it would be the best thing for myself and children.  However, few reasons I am struggling with it.
Firstly, my wife mother knows of the situation and the diagnosis and said that she fears if I leave my wife that she will harm herself.
Secondly, there are multiple threats for my wife in regards to taking our kids, money and essentially PLEASE READing me over within her "rights".  As of now we pay for full time childcare in which she uses but does not work full time in any way and she says I will owe her so much that I will be living out of my truck.  There is a a lot of financial burden she has put on the family and I do not see it fair to have it continue.

In addition, I realize now that when in the right mood she is capable of many destructive things included trying to play our kids against me and telling them I do not love them ect. 

I do not even know if I have any rights in this regard however, any insight would be great and if it is common for a parent with BPD to remain in parental control with full or half custody?

Thank you

[Indoor_Tree]

Hey,

I don't have any experience with divorce or children; I just have experience being in a long-term relationship with a guy who has BPD. We're officially "friends" now, but there's a lot of tension still in our relationship and I struggle to decide whether I should keep him in my life or cut things off. He also makes me feel like he might kill himself if I cut things off completely. It's easy for me to know logically that I deserve to live my life in a healthy way and seek a fulfilling relationship, but it's hard to actually take action, cause distress for the person with BPD, and take that risk of suicide / unknown calamity.

I just wanted to chime in and say that you're valid to consider your children's welfare and to take steps to protect your relationship with your kids. I'm sorry for the impossibly hard situation you're in. Also, it's not your responsibility to stay with your wife and keep your kids in a situation where they are harmed by being told their dad doesn't love them so that there's less risk of your wife killing herself. From an outsider's perspective, it seems like your wife is leaving you little choice but to take action. You're not responsible or at fault if your wife decides to kill herself, whether you stay or not. I know I didn't really answer any questions you had with this post, but I wanted to put my two cents in. I think you owe it to yourself to get a lawyer sooner than later, though. I imagine it could be worth it to have someone to consult with on what you should be looking for and documenting so that you can have more leverage when it comes to custody.

Stay strong and take care of yourself!

[ForeverDad]

Firstly, my wife mother knows of the situation and the diagnosis and said that she fears if I leave my wife that she will harm herself.

I would assume both you and your spouse are adults.  I would expect that your families, friends, courts, and society in general would perceive that one adult is not responsible for another adult once the relationship is ended.  Even if she has mental health issues, your responsibility for her has limits.  After all, you as the untrained involved person are not qualified to determine whether any self-harm comments or behaviors are truly sincere versus posturing to keep you indecisive and appeasing, or a little bit of both.

I recall that in the year or so before my marriage imploded my then-spouse would rant and rage, moan and groan and then lock herself sobbing in our spare room.  She seemed so emotionally fragile.  After we separated she was like a different person and I never saw her moaning and groaning again.  That was over 15 years ago.  (My ex may not be like your spouse, mine never was diagnosed nor assessed with hospital intakes.)

any insight would be great and if it is common for a parent with BPD to remain in parental control with full or half custody?

My divorce lawyer eventually made comments that she was crazy, f-ing nuts and once even commented that she was a sociopath who could pass a lie detector test.  The two temporary orders, one during our separation months and another during my 2 year divorce process, both assigned her custody and majority time.  All I had was long alternate weekends and a mid-week evening in between, plus vacations and half the holidays.

Family courts assume temp orders will be only temporary, not anticipating our cases often take one to two years, sometimes longer, well, until it happens.

However, life improved after the divorce was final.  I moved up to Shared Parenting with equal time and (I fought for this) residential parent for school decision making.  She was still entitled and caused a lot of conflict especially at exchanges.  I went back to court and and three years later I became Legal Guardian.  She was still entitled and continued to cause a lot of conflict.  I went back to court again and and two years later I walked out with majority time during the school year.

[WalkingonEggshel]

Thank you for the response. Was there a specific reasoning behind her getting majority custody at the beginning?  I suppose my ultimate goal to get majority custody and decision making with them as when she is not stable she is not trustworthy around the kids and making decisions.  When she is will I have no problem with her being around them as she can be a decent mom to them.

I would assume both you and your spouse are adults.  I would expect that your families, friends, courts, and society in general would perceive that one adult is not responsible for another adult once the relationship is ended.  Even if she has mental health issues, your responsibility for her has limits.  After all, you as the untrained involved person are not qualified to determine whether any self-harm comments or behaviors are truly sincere versus posturing to keep you indecisive and appeasing, or a little bit of both.

I recall that in the year or so before my marriage imploded my then-spouse would rant and rage, moan and groan and then lock herself sobbing in our spare room.  She seemed so emotionally fragile.  After we separated she was like a different person and I never saw her moaning and groaning again.  That was over 15 years ago.  (My ex may not be like your spouse, mine never was diagnosed nor assessed with hospital intakes.)

My divorce lawyer eventually made comments that she was crazy, f-ing nuts and once even commented that she was a sociopath who could pass a lie detector test.  The two temporary orders, one during our separation months and another during my 2 year divorce process, both assigned her custody and majority time.  All I had was long alternate weekends and a mid-week evening in between, plus vacations and half the holidays.

Family courts assume temp orders will be only temporary, not anticipating our cases often take one to two years, sometimes longer, well, until it happens.

However, life improved after the divorce was final.  I moved up to Shared Parenting with equal time and (I fought for this) residential parent for school decision making.  She was still entitled and caused a lot of conflict especially at exchanges.  I went back to court and and three years later I became Legal Guardian.  She was still entitled and continued to cause a lot of conflict.  I went back to court again and and two years later I walked out with majority time during the school year.

[ForeverDad]

When my ex got the first temp order she was facing a charge of Threat of DV, which was the trigger of our separation.  So far as I could figure out why, I concluded that (1) mothers were defaulted to primary custody unless there was a reason not to, and (2) DV is an adult relationship issue and so not seen as impacting parenting.

It's a bit of convoluted reasoning, but I interpreted it as she could be an alleged bad adult but that was distinct from her parenting.

[WalkingonEggshel]

Did she get a temp order against you and took the kids originally?
Sorry if I misunderstand/

When my ex got the first temp order she was facing a charge of Threat of DV, which was the trigger of our separation.  So far as I could figure out why, I concluded that (1) mothers were defaulted to primary custody unless there was a reason not to, and (2) DV is an adult relationship issue and so not seen as impacting parenting.

It's a bit of convoluted reasoning, but I interpreted it as she could be an alleged bad adult but that was distinct from her parenting.

[ForeverDad]

Yes, that was the short version.  When she got out on OR (her own recognizance) that next Monday from municipal court (where I had been granted a protection order while the case was pending) she headed straight to family court and filed to get her own protection order from me and included our preschooler, then three years old.  Later when I saw her paperwork I saw that she had included our ongoing case number in municipal court, as required, though I have no indication the magistrate reviewed it.  I got a call from CPS asking me some details.  A week later we had a hearing in family court.  CPS rep stood up and stated they had "no concerns" with me.  (BTW there was no comment about whether they had concerns about her, they were only responding to her allegations about me.)  So court removed my son from her protection petition and that's when the court issued it's first 'standard' default-to-mother parenting order.

[WalkingonEggshel]

I am so sorry you went through that.

That is my fear now and wondering if I should do my own protection order asap.

Yes, that was the short version.  When she got out on OR (her own recognizance) that next Monday from municipal court (where I had been granted a protection order while the case was pending) she headed straight to family court and filed to get her own protection order from me and included our preschooler, then three years old.  Later when I saw her paperwork I saw that she had included our ongoing case number in municipal court, as required, though I have no indication the magistrate reviewed it.  I got a call from CPS asking me some details.  A week later we had a hearing in family court.  CPS rep stood up and stated they had "no concerns" with me.  (BTW there was no comment about whether they had concerns about her, they were only responding to her allegations about me.)  So court removed my son from her protection petition and that's when the court issued it's first 'standard' default-to-mother parenting order.

[PearlsBefore]

I have a very close friend who informed his dBPD wife that he was divorcing her, she freaked out of course, he agreed to delay but not cancel it in order to make things easier on her. When he brought it up again, she said she'd kill herself and ran off half-naked into the streets...after some time elapsed he got worried and phoned police for a mental health check on her, and the guy ended up being arrested and accused of being...let's see, a computer hacker, a child abuser, a violent spouse, an eco-terrorist, a white supremacist AND a black supremacist, blah, blah, blah...took him years to extract himself from all of that nosense, never recovered his old job or anything due to the drama she'd caused.

If you get the opportunity to give her the house and all your bank passwords, and you just take the kids and the truck, DO IT. You can literally live with the kids in a shelter (or truck?) for twelve weeks while you get your new lives sorted out and be better off than if you "trust the courts" to recognize what she is before YEARS have elapsed. Remember you know her intimately, they see her on her best behavior for thirty minutes once every three months.  

The good news is that diagnosed BPDs almost never end up with full custody (though "interim" custody can still be years)...and I do mean almost never, I read a study on it whose name I cannot remember but became relevant recently. Shared/Half is still not uncommon if they're a high-functioning BPD able to convince everyone that they're just a bit off but able to control themselves...but if they're the sort of BPD that has more fits at 30 than they did at 20, then you're "in luck" that the court can usually see enough of their violent insanity as to be truly concerned.

Regarding the "sociopath who could pass lie detector tests", the real issue as I've read in countless books (and one British study that actually contemplated removing the competence to testify based on a diagnosis of severe BPD, as it made testimony less reliable than a schizophrenic, pathological liar or child) is that the pwBPD is able to combine false facts with GENUINE emotion. They aren't doing pathetic crocodile tears on the stand, they REALLY genuinely "feel" like their mother died in the blitzkrieg even if they still live with their mother and she's sitting in the front row. So it's very disorienting to anyone who doesn't have clinical or caretaking experience with BPD - because if *I* testified that I have PTSD to the day you, WalkingOnEggshel, robbed a bank and threatened to feed me to crocodiles...it will be very obvious I'm lying and faking my distress recounting it. Also easy with a pathological liar or a shizophrenic or typical fantasy-prone personality or delusionist...but with a pwBPD the listener's every instinct tells them that the story must be true because she demonstrates such genuine emotion recounting it. Good luck.

[WalkingonEggshel]

I appreciate the response on this, as much as it Fing terrifies me I do realize that is what I have to be prepared for.  On the surface and in short stints with her everyone thinks she is wonderful and her Facebook is very much to the point of her being a great mother/wife and provider.  Even at times I can view her as a decent enough mother to the children but it seems to be a fleeting experience and only at certain times can she hold it for a full day.

Additionally to her being able to testify with severe BPD.  She most definitely does have severe BPD and was confirmed by phycologists and doctors.  She fits every label, category and subcategory of every  BPD variant.

I have a very close friend who informed his dBPD wife that he was divorcing her, she freaked out of course, he agreed to delay but not cancel it in order to make things easier on her. When he brought it up again, she said she'd kill herself and ran off half-naked into the streets...after some time elapsed he got worried and phoned police for a mental health check on her, and the guy ended up being arrested and accused of being...let's see, a computer hacker, a child abuser, a violent spouse, an eco-terrorist, a white supremacist AND a black supremacist, blah, blah, blah...took him years to extract himself from all of that nosense, never recovered his old job or anything due to the drama she'd caused.

If you get the opportunity to give her the house and all your bank passwords, and you just take the kids and the truck, DO IT. You can literally live with the kids in a shelter (or truck?) for twelve weeks while you get your new lives sorted out and be better off than if you "trust the courts" to recognize what she is before YEARS have elapsed. Remember you know her intimately, they see her on her best behavior for thirty minutes once every three months.  

The good news is that diagnosed BPDs almost never end up with full custody (though "interim" custody can still be years)...and I do mean almost never, I read a study on it whose name I cannot remember but became relevant recently. Shared/Half is still not uncommon if they're a high-functioning BPD able to convince everyone that they're just a bit off but able to control themselves...but if they're the sort of BPD that has more fits at 30 than they did at 20, then you're "in luck" that the court can usually see enough of their violent insanity as to be truly concerned.

Regarding the "sociopath who could pass lie detector tests", the real issue as I've read in countless books (and one British study that actually contemplated removing the competence to testify based on a diagnosis of severe BPD, as it made testimony less reliable than a schizophrenic, pathological liar or child) is that the pwBPD is able to combine false facts with GENUINE emotion. They aren't doing pathetic crocodile tears on the stand, they REALLY genuinely "feel" like their mother died in the blitzkrieg even if they still live with their mother and she's sitting in the front row. So it's very disorienting to anyone who doesn't have clinical or caretaking experience with BPD - because if *I* testified that I have PTSD to the day you, WalkingOnEggshel, robbed a bank and threatened to feed me to crocodiles...it will be very obvious I'm lying and faking my distress recounting it. Also easy with a pathological liar or a shizophrenic or typical fantasy-prone personality or delusionist...but with a pwBPD the listener's every instinct tells them that the story must be true because she demonstrates such genuine emotion recounting it. Good luck.

[worriedStepmom]

I'm sorry if I've asked this before, but is your wife the kind that is scared of authority or the kind that will fight dirty to win?

My H's uBPDex is scared of authority.  She throws absolute fits and makes our lives living hell for a little while, but then she eventually agrees to what H wants to do.  She is sure if she goes in front of a judge he'll never let her see her daughter again.

[WalkingonEggshel]

No she is not scared.  She has been in court before for an alleged rape... which didn't go through but the blackmail part did go through after the fact even though she told him she thought it was a turn on at the beginning and then it got out of hand. Won't get too much into her court case before but she understands she can use the system and be a "victim".

She is under the belief she is a great mom and deserves the kids full time.

I'm sorry if I've asked this before, but is your wife the kind that is scared of authority or the kind that will fight dirty to win?

My H's uBPDex is scared of authority.  She throws absolute fits and makes our lives living hell for a little while, but then she eventually agrees to what H wants to do.  She is sure if she goes in front of a judge he'll never let her see her daughter again.

[PearlsBefore]

Website design here makes it very difficult to notice, but you have a private message waiting...

[WalkingonEggshel]

I believe I replied to it.  Let me know if you do not get it please!  I would love to chat more.

Thanks,

Website design here makes it very difficult to notice, but you have a private message waiting...

[mart555]

She is under the belief she is a great mom and deserves the kids full time.

They are all like this most of the time.  Except when they feel some fake regret during a few days when they want to give up everything and leave you with the kids.  A few days later they repeat the cycle.
 

[WalkingonEggshel]

Wow,  I thought I was going crazy there for a while.  It is so damn confusing because I feel those few days when she has clarity I feel like "hey there is some light out of the tunnel"  She is going to be okay and we are going to be okay with the kids and sure enough at some point, always reverts back to complete "crazy town".

They are all like this most of the time.  Except when they feel some fake regret during a few days when they want to give up everything and leave you with the kids.  A few days later they repeat the cycle.