Discard/cycles

[AlbatrossRising]

I’ve posted on my relationship before, but I’ll lay it about again to start.

I met my wife in youth group back in 2007 we were best friends. She dated a lot of guys but I was always attracted to her and her bubbly euphoric self. She told me she liked me too, it just never worked out. She eventually moved away and went to this Christian based bible society and lived there for like 8 years. During her time there, that place was caught up in some type of child sex ring, although she was never assaulted or effected, although she had a victim mentality about it bc she would have “PDST” over it.

In 2016, we reconnected again. She was in a two year relationship and I was in one as well. We met up with the capacity of being friends. I noticed right away she seemed very chaotic, partied a lot, drank a lot, just a little reckless and over the top extroverted. While we were friends she ended up cheating on her current BF with a guy from work. They broke up and that new guy instantly moved in with her. Well, my GF and I broke up and one day she invited me over for pizza and drinks. She ended up telling me that I was always that “one person” for her and she wanted to marry me. We ended up making out and she then instantly broke up with the new guy and her and I dated for about 2 months. It was amazing. Best friends, soul mate level stuff, and then one day she just cut me off and told me that she was confused about her recent BF and wanted time to think. She said she didn’t deserve me, she deserved “mud pies” and I was a “lollipop” she didn’t deserve. I told her I couldn’t give her time and it ended there. She became very hostile after that and wouldn’t give me my stuff back and was just cold and ruthless toward me.

A year later she reached out to me saying that God worked in her and she was an idiot and was so sorry. We ended up eventually dating again after a few weeks and BOOM, happily ever after (so I thought) it was perfect. She was still highly chaotic and did many things to cope. She had “depression and took meds but it was nothing that was overly alarming at the time. I had some trust issues with her bc of our recent past and she was also overtly highly sexual. This I believe lead me to cope out of my own insecurities through a very non traditional sex life together. I moved in after a few months, we then decided on a whim to move to Nashville TN, and we were taking life by the rains. My sister (who lives in TN) told us she was pregnant when we first moved and instantly she told me she wanted me to “put a baby in her” (my now wife, not my sister haha) eventually that happened and everything started moving faster. I proposed to her and we ended up getting married in November of 2017. We had our first daughter in May of 2018 and eventually moved back to our home state. We were best friends and barely had conflict. Our sex life evolved and we even would talk about different scenarios and things in a fantasy. My wife and I were drunk one night one our one year anniversary and things got heated up and she mentioned in an honest moment that she always had a connection with one of her old exes from like 10 years ago she used to have sex with as a teenager. Well this initially hurt me but instead I decided since it was an honest moment that I would be understanding and just cope sexually with her. I was secure enough in my relationship at the time to not feel overly uneasy about it. I trusted her. Well eventually one day a year after that she wanted to meet him for drinks as a friend and I stupidly “okayed” it thinking well maybe she’ll get it out of her system and her and i would just have fun scenario sex after that. Well, she ended up being very open with this guy and called me and begged me for him to come over.. I said “hell no” but she kept pleading for it and long story short, he came around and some slight things transpired. (I know, I know, I’m an idiot) there was a lot of alcohol involved. But this was my own sin due to how I chose to “cope” in my own way with her. And clearly a way she coped too. Nothing really happened after that, we for the most part called it there and kept things between us, except we still had sex and would talk about fantasies and all that junk. Later on, we were blessed with our second daughter. And eventually bought a house. Things were really kind of settled with us and that’s when my wife started getting severely depressed. She would often struggle just with anything, being a mom, a wife, the house, the animals, she still drank more than I realized and would frequently need to get out of the house by herself.

In the ladder half of 2020, she started getting severely depressed and attempted to kill her self one night. I took the children away and took her to a hospital and she was help for a 72hr psych hold. This is where she was diagnosed with BPD. My wife cried bc it finally explained so much to her about herself.

By December everything was okay, but I noticed my wife was slowly pulling away in some areas. One night she got really drunk and told me that her old ex and her were talking and he was suddenly on his way over. Her and I had a huge blow up fight and I told her not to have him come here. She completely split on me and she attempted to leave our home highly intoxicated. So as an idiot, I made peace with her and allows the guy to just come over. We all drank a bit and some more things ended up transpiring...

In Jan 2021, she went to her friends house out of state and everything was normal. While out there she ghosted me, it was so weird. And then when we finally talked to told me that she wanted a separation or divorce. I was scared beyond belief and shocked. When she came home, she said it was because she didn’t feel loved enough by me (completely crazy, I am a very domestic and caring romantic) and said it’s because of some fights we’ve had ( nothing major, no abuse or cheating) and that our sex life was never loving (a fair point). I agreed to go to counseling and do whatever it takes to make things better.
She also was still talking to her ex I found out and I shut that down and said all that was permanently done and we were going to do things better and healthier. She did end up putting all the blame on me for everything in our sex life, took 0 ownership.

The next day she overdosed on her meds and that lead to another 72hr hold.

Over this time, she just fell further and further downward. I did EVERYTHING I could from love notes, counseling, set up couples counseling, bought her gifs, did projects around the house, and she just withdrew more and more. I eventually gave her an ultimatum and like a switch, she agreed to move forward and suddenly she was her old self. I asked her what all this was and she said “at the core of everything I was afraid you were going to see who I really am underneath and abandon me. I didn’t know what the “who I really am underneath” part meant exactly, but I’ll tell you, she’s chaotic, drinks, has lied, kept things from me, did things I wouldn’t approve of in secret, etc. she said she has issues mirroring people and doesn’t know who she really is deep down. She would at tell me often that I and the kids deserve much better.

We went to Vegas for a well deserved escape and that’s where things really fell apart. She got drunk, “split”
on me, got very violent and abusive and ruined our trip. The next morning she apologized and said she has so many issues but that’s not an excuse.

When we came home, she just completely withdrew. We got into a huge fight one night bc I caught her hiding her phone and she got very defensive and everything blew up. She slept in a different room that night and I never had slept with her again to this day. 3 days after that, she told me that she wanted to separate and that she never loved me and just used me all this time. She took the kids and went to her parents. Her parents where very upset with her and counseled her bc they are very anti divorce, especially with kids. We met the following Sunday and she told me that she wanted things to work and for God to heal our relationship and to never give up. I asked about her ex and she said that was completely dead. I told her I was glad and I feared he was an element and we created a Frankenstein monster out of it.

After that, she didn’t come home right away and completely changed. She suddenly wanted the divorce and there was no talking her out of it. Any attempt I made was fruitless, I asked her out on dates and she agreed that after marriage counseling we could. Once we stated counseling she was completely withdrawn and told our counselor that she’s completely done and is hey there to check a box and never loved me. She agreed to finish the 12 week course but only made it to the 3rd, which was funny bc it got better with each session. She moved back in during this time but I stayed in the guest bedroom. And sometimes things were hot and cold at best, but it was an overall downward spiral. One day she showered before i attended a midnight shift and I went by the house later in and her exes car was at my house. I went inside and she got in my face and started calling me a stalker. I didn’t have time to search the house. The next morning she told me that she reached out to him and that he claimed he was there bc he was lonely and just was missing her but never went inside... I believed her at first until I stated piecing more together and also noticed that she shaved when she showered due to a fresh razor located in the shower. So it left me wondering how long this guy has been coming over and having sex with my wife. She of course denied it. She would also disappear a full day and never spend any money... it’s also worth mentioning that she drained our savings and put us in 10k credit card debt without telling me.

She eventually filed for divorce and moved out, took our kids too. I caught her and her ex moving out in the middle of the night with our girls unattended in a order vehicle nearby.

Currently, she has an apartment about 30
Minutes away, she keeps the kids from me and plays games with them and I, she goes out and drinks at night and won’t tell me where the kids are, she’s clearly with this guy although still denies it, she won’t let me sign my kids out of daycare, and so on.

We’ve been together for 4 years, and it’s like suddenly I don’t even recognize her. She’s just hateful, spiteful and says I manipulate her and gaslight her and she hates me. I RACK my brain all day everyday still trying to piece this puzzle apart. I understand she has BPD, but I’ve taken a lot of ownership over this situation too for allowing our sec life to get out of hand (event though it was mutual at best) and for maybe getting to complacent and for the way I’ve handled some of this is my desperateness to keep our family together and our marriage alive. But after 5 months of research, reading books, articles and forums and countless videos I know that despite anything we’ve done or I’ve done, that with a borderline this is all typical on her end. It’s how she’s always been. Her family has told me this too and have partially cut her off. And I’m not blameless. None of us are perfect and I played a role, but she just left. She’s gone without ever trying and lying and cheating and coping and blaming me for everything under the sun after years of (besides our sex life) me being the best husband and father I could be. It’s like in the end she just didn’t even want me or found me worthy. Everything in her mind (now) is just all black with me.

I’ve found resources online about saving a marriage in my situation or worse and the high success rate it has. The premise is limited contact, taking ownership and validating how she feels, and becoming attentive again and any interactions we have being positive ones. There’s a lot of opportunities bc we have kids so we do talk about them almost daily and see each other during exchanges. But on the other side of the coin, she has BPD. And when you look it up, you’re starting down the barrel of a hopeless road almost.

I want her back ultimately, I want my kids to have a whole family, I want her to do the DBT therapy and to recover the best she can. But I don’t know what’s going to happen.

We both have lawyers and are starting down an ugly custody battle. Due to her severe mental Heath issues and incidents with our own kids (neglect, verbal abusive, one incident of physical abuse, and both our families seeing this) I’m pursing emergency custody at the moment. I also don’t know what is going on at her place but I know she’s bringing another guy around my kids, which is NOT good for them right now.

My wife still has me on all social media and hasn’t really cut me off besides moving out and some minor other things.

There’s so much talk about “cycles” on BPD.
I’m curious on your opinions on the entire situation and also on these cycles and if you think she would ever cycle back. Based on her own history, and especially either us having kids and me always being in her life, I feel like it’s very possible but don’t hold on to false hope.

My ultimate goal is to get my wife back, get her the right help and save our family.

I’ve leaned so much throughout all this, I’ve learned from my mistakes and ultimately for the greater good can work though anything.

Thoughts?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re married to a very emotionally difficult person. Throughout the time you’ve known her, she has been through unstable periods alternating with “honeymoon phases.”

You’d like to have a healthy marriage and a stable family life. Without extensive therapy this is very unlikely. And unfortunately most people with BPD are very reluctant to commit to therapy.

Right now you’re in the midst of a divorce, she’s apparently living with her previous boyfriend, you’ve got a custody battle you’re waging, and you say she is hateful and spiteful to you.

How do you see yourself turning this situation around?

[AlbatrossRising]

Idk. I’m an optimistic guy I guess. However, the situation is slowly just killing me off. It’s hard when your wife just leaves and is with some guy. It’s hard that she’s been with him during all this time I’ve been fighting for her. Especially with kids involved, I just don’t understand how someone can be so terrible. I get that this is common for those of us on this forum and anyone who deals with a spouse with BPD. But I struggle with the lack of agency. And I’m someone whose poured the last 6 months in extensive research on BPD, just to make sense and find some sort of closure. However, at the end of the day, this is a horrible reality. And though I’m not the only one whose experienced this, it’s still mind blowing. She destroyed me and my family. Overtime I will recover and move on, I guess I’m still at least wanting her to try and come back. Idk, I just was left with no excuse or empathy. All the while I’m the “psychotic” one in her eyes.

Ultimately I want things to work out, I want her to come back on her knees. I know it happens.

If I beat her in court, get my kids, have her pay child support, and all the while we all know her new “high” will fade. That’s when she’s likely to come back. But I often ask myself can I truly forgive this..? I don’t know

[Cat Familiar]

OK, you’re optimistic. Let’s game out the scenario you propose.

You spend a ton of money litigating a contentious divorce and custody battle. She tires of her boyfriend and lacking other immediate options, returns to you “on her knees.”

Now what?

You wonder if you’ll ever be able to forgive her.

And she will harbor a treasure trove of reasons why you “betrayed” her and cannot be trusted.

And how will this impact the children?

If you’re not seeing a therapist, I would recommend you find someone you feel comfortable with. People with BPD can leave a massive amount of destruction in their wake during a divorce.

[AlbatrossRising]

I’m actually seeing two counselors currently. One is our marriage counselor and the other is a personal one. It’s helped some, but at the end of the day, you’re right.

How much can a person shoulder, when faced against someone whose frankly being monstrous and so selfish.

I guess it’s the crazy things about all of this. That we deal with these people in our lives that aren’t normal. 6 months of research, counseling and living through it has shown me much on this.

I want to be with someone whose like me, who will love me genuinely and where always means always. And when she’s with someone else instantly it’s the worst reality to live in bc she moved on.

My cross to bear is we’re married, we have two small kids. I just never wanted this. No one does. And I’m trying to be the best man I can be in this, especially as a dad but still as a husband. I want to fight for the best outcome for my kids. I want to do all I can. I want healing and I believe if she ever came back and got the right help that things could turn around. But that’s not where she is. She’s “happy” in her chaos and coping. She doesn’t care about anyone but herself and her needs bc she lacks the capacity. If she had a lick of empathy this wouldn’t be an issue. But she flipped a switch, painted me black, and destroyed a marriage and family

[alterK]

Albatross, it seems to me that you are still clinging to the hope that if you can just figure out the right strategy, your W will change and you can have a decent life together. Of course you have messed up, gotten things wrong from time to time, as does every human being. With a BPD person it's especially hard to get things right, as their behavior can be so provocative. Yeah, I've been there and done that.

You say you want your kids to have an "intact" family, but many kids survive divorce. Kids are often used as pawns in a difficult marriage, and deciding what is best for them isn't a simple matter.

We're not supposed to talk "stay or go" on this board, but I'll just say you are faced with a very difficult decision. The only person you can change is you. Is it realistic to think that if you change your behavior, your W will change enough for you to have a livable marriage? Or to put it another way, do you think you can change your behavior enough to make living with her ok? In the process, how many concussions do you think you can survive from banging your head against the wall? If you get back together will you ever feel safe with her? You have my sympathy, seriously. I hope things will get better.