Co-Parenting: Dealing With Anxiety

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I had the kids for the weekend, then brought them to summer "camp" from 830-2, then their mom picked them up. After 6PM, I received pictures by text from their mom (actually D9 who was told to send them), "do you know anything about this?" D9 had what looked like hives on her back. I responded "no, looks like an allergic reaction or heat hives." Then I got the call.

Of course it was me and my dirty house, or the dog (whom we've had since last July and never saw this). "Every time they come back from your house they have something!"

If I'd been mentally quicker, I'd have done the calculation... at least 3 switches per week times 8 years... so over 1000 times the kids have had "issues" when I've returned them?

I got mad, "OK, Ms Anxiety!"

She responded, "It's not that! And the kids always defend you!"

Minus one for me referring to her diagnosed anxiety, but she told me something about the kids. She complains about our big puppy also though the kids love our pup. It's not the dog. Months ago, she sent me a link about how unsanitary it was to let kids sleep with dogs. The dog has slept on the front couch, guarding the front door, for months now. As a smaller puppy, she did sleep with us. No hives.

She must have been mad at me still because I didn't get a nice father's day post on my FB timeline, nor was invited to breakfast like year (I don't care, but it was interesting).

Then D9 had recurrences of hives with her all weekend. Maybe the heat? She doesn't have AC. Then a message to the doctor who replied, looks like an allergic reaction, urticaria [hives]. Try Calomine lotion." So helpful... thanks HMO.

I don't feel guilty saying that as much, but I think it wasn't helpful. Sometimes I just get tired of her accusations which are unfounded. A female friend says I shouldn't put up with her 

It's been almost 8 years, and 8 to go. I know the Tools, and have used them well, but sometimes I conveniently forget.

The other weekend, she invited us to go get shies for D9 at the mall. 3 stores, finally some crocs, but,  "help your daughter find shoes!" And on the way out, "I should have asked you to drive separately as I wanted to shop for myself!"

When she dropped us off, "why don't you want to give me a hug? [D9] why are you mad at me?" I could have told her, but she was oblivious as to why D was mad at her.

I took D the following weekend to get shoes: second store, 45 minutes in the mall, no drama. No frustrated kids.

[Turkish]

I had the kids for the weekend, then brought them to summer "camp" from 830-2, then their mom picked them up. After 6PM, I received pictures by text from their mom (actually D9 who was told to send them), "do you know anything about this?" D9 had what looked like hives on her back. I responded "no, looks like an allergic reaction or heat hives." Then I got the call.

Of course it was me and my dirty house, or the dog (whom we've had since last July and never saw this). "Every time they come back from your house they have something!"

If I'd been mentally quicker, I'd have done the calculation... at least 3 switches per week times 8 years... so over 1000 times the kids have had "issues" when I've returned them?

I got mad, "OK, Ms Anxiety!"

She responded, "It's not that! And the kids always defend you!"

Minus one for me referring to her diagnosed anxiety, but she told me something about the kids. She complains about our big puppy also though the kids love our pup. It's not the dog. Months ago, she sent me a link about how unsanitary it was to let kids sleep with dogs. The dog has slept on the front couch, guarding the front door, for months now. As a smaller puppy, she did sleep with us. No hives.

She must have been mad at me still because I didn't get a nice father's day post on my FB timeline, nor was invited to breakfast like year (I don't care, but it was interesting).

Then D9 had recurrences of hives with her all weekend. Maybe the heat? She doesn't have AC. Then a message to the doctor who replied, looks like an allergic reaction, urticaria [hives]. Try Calomine lotion." So helpful... thanks HMO.

I don't feel guilty saying that as much, but I think it wasn't helpful. Sometimes I just get tired of her accusations which are unfounded. A female friend says I shouldn't put up with her 

It's been almost 8 years, and 8 to go. I know the Tools, and have used them well, but sometimes I conveniently forget.

The other weekend, she invited us to go get shies for D9 at the mall. 3 stores, finally some crocs, but,  "help your daughter find shoes!" And on the way out, "I should have asked you to drive separately as I wanted to shop for myself!"

When she dropped us off, "why don't you want to give me a hug? [D9] why are you mad at me?" I could have told her, but she was oblivious as to why D was mad at her.

I took D the following weekend to get shoes: second store, 45 minutes in the mall, no drama. No frustrated kids.

[kells76]

Zooming in and problem solving:

Then D9 had recurrences of hives with her all weekend. Maybe the heat? She doesn't have AC

Is the summer camp outside at all? If they swim, that could explain more sun exposure on back --> heat reaction on back. Or, she sat in a chair where someone with poison ivy sat before her. I've gotten heat rash on my ankles before, and also a freak MAJOR blistery rash after pruning hawthorne tree branches in the heat. And secondary transfer poison oak (touching something that someone with poison oak touched before me). So, heat and/or outside and/or secondary transfer, yeah, not surprising D9 got something.

Zooming out a little -- in terms of problem solving for D9, would it be effective to have "the summer camp" be what you and xW focus on? Versus having her focus on you and "the problems coming from you and your dog", etc. Of course, if you're the one taking them to camp, then it wouldn't take much for xW to connect "you" and "the camp" in her blame. But, if you both can focus together on "let's see if anything happened at camp", that could be a way of pivoting her anxiety away from you.

If there is an issue at camp (maybe not enough break time in the shade?), then you guys can solve it. If not, then you've ruled it out.

Then, if the focus is on solving the issue for the kids, ponder whether getting her a small or window AC is something you would want to do. For some situations, it could be OK, it just depends on the dynamics. For other families it would be too intertwined and "rescue-y" and "overstepping". We got 2 hand me down ACs a few years ago and gave one to the kids' mom. No idea what she did with it, I think she has an ideological opposition to AC, but we tried. AC can vary from a "nice to have" to, for a lot of the west this past week, a "health issue". So maybe in other years, having/giving an AC would be "too much", but this year would be ok. Just depends. Could also be worth not doing it, so the kids learn that houses are different, one way isn't necessarily better, and how to cope when the temperature is uncomfortable.

I don't feel guilty saying that as much, but I think it wasn't helpful. Sometimes I just get tired of her accusations which are unfounded.

Yes, sometimes it seems like it never changes. Same attitudes, postures, phrases, blame, as 10 years ago. It wears on you.

How are you doing now, this many years in, with "the same old" coming from her? Do you cope with it the same way, or different? Do you find it affecting you more, less, other?

[GaGrl]

With the heat wave in the West this week, my go-to would be best rash and the summer camp activities.

Turkish, I know you have a count-down in your head of your youngest reaching 18, so "no more co-parenting ." I'm here to tell you it doesn't magically stop at age 18 -- your children will always come to you with issues around their mother, and when they have children, you'll see interesting dynamics around the grandchildren. So...continue to focus on tools for yourself to use, plus developing tools as the kiddos get older.

[Turkish]

Gagrl,

Yes. One of my friends who went through something similar with two little boys over 20 years ago reminded me as well.

kells76,

We do have poison oak, but none at the school. I taught the kids to identify it very young. That it was on the exposed areas of her tank top undershirt was curious. The program does know she has issues with heat. It's been hotter here in previous years and we've never seen this. She did take a break from an activity due to the heat and said she touched a tree, but she didn't have it on her front side.

I did wash her bedding including the mattress cover, just in case to eliminate a possible cause, but she didn't complain about it that morning.

I feel badly for the poor people in the PNW and Canada with the heat dome. Low to mid 80s here. The program does keep the kids inside of it gets into the mid to high 90s. Fridays are water days. Offering to buy maybe at least a portable swamp cooler for them might be nice. They're on a nice complex, but it's what they used to call Section 8, and I'm not sure of the rules about installing AC.

[formflier]

I'm wondering if asking her directly if she want to "track issues" would be helpful as a counter to her "every time" comment.

Or perhaps give her an a or b choice.

Want to discuss/track issue or focus on treating the allergic reaction?

Tough stuff.  From the divorces I've personally watched..it does get better as kids age..but form time to time BPD drives drama..seemingly randomly.

Hang in there.

Best,

FF

[Turkish]

D9 was rejected from camp the last two days. Yesterday, I spent the morning with her until I picked up S11 at 2PM, then mommy picked them up and I went to work. I went in at 7AM today, and plan to tomorrow, or maybe 630AM.

I just texted to see how D was doing and if she was medicated for cough and congestion. "Just Tylenol, and I hope that she's better because I have morning meetings."  *eyeroll*

It's a cultural thing: Tylenol and vaporub for everything, rather than the proper medications.

I didn't respond, but I might be able to get off by 11 if I power through what I need to do on-site in the lab.

[kells76]

Turkish, remind me, is there a set, specific delineation of "Dad's time/Mom's time"? Not just "as worked out between parents" or "Dad can be with kids when he's not at work"?
I'm picking up a lot of bleed over with Mom's time/Mom's decisions and Dad's time/Dad's decisions.
I also know your situation is pretty different from ours.

[Turkish]

It's 3/2/2/3, 3's being the weekends. It's my Wednesday/Thursday tomorrow, she Friday- Sunday (3).

Given I was "essential," I worked from about 1-7PM this past covid year, supervising most of remote school until their lunch. Since she watched them a couple of more hours in the afternoons, I picked them up every day she had them for the night (7 miles away) to get them logged on by 815AM. It worked. I got off earlier on my nights when I could.

She's been called back on-site. She's more meeting intensive whereas I'm a lab rat, only a few meetings here and there by webex. I can be more flexible, and go in just about every other Saturday to work to meet my productivity.  That sux, but I appreciate the flexibility which is why I haven't left the job though I have wanted to for over a year.

We only got into it one time, like, "whose job is more important." That wasn't a productive or healthy conversation. For the most part, we work well together. It's too bad that her mom watching them isn't an option more though here and there it is (two hours here and there). And I have no one on my side to help.

[kells76]

The other weekend, she invited us to go get shoes for D9 at the mall.

Thinking about this a little more.

This was on her time with the kids?

What are the benefits of you going? What are the drawbacks of going? For whom?

[Turkish]

Thinking about this a little more.

This was on her time with the kids?

What are the benefits of you going? What are the drawbacks of going? For whom?

It was my weekend. She asked to borrow D9 and then said we could come if we wanted to.

The dumb thing about the shoes is that I bought her cowboy boots a couple of months ago. Mom didn't think they were good for her feet. At the same time, I saw a pair of hightops one size too big but they were half off, so I bought them to stick in the closet until winter. For whatever reason, D wore them to mom's house after which I got lectured. I told her several times, "they're for winter," but at the mall trip, she still wouldn't let that go. I reiterated strongly (though not too much as the kids were in the back seat) that I bought those shoes for later in the year or next.

She has these "things" about shoes and the kids being sick because they aren't drinking water.

A few weeks ago, she chose to do a 5th grade "graduation" drive through at the school with the kids. I was berated when she picked them up for not dressing S11 well enough. "I told you to put him in nice clothes!" I responded that she didn't tell me that. "Well, you should have known!" 5th. Grade. Drive through. OK, maybe that's a mother thing and I don't think so much about such things, but she berated S11 to go in the house to wash his face and put on lotion. S11 told me in the bathroom, "dad, my face isn't dirty, it's fine," as he looked into the mirror. I told him just to wash it and put on lotion. He has nice skin, not dry. I thought about quoting The Silence of the Lambs.

Sometimes a short outing is ok, other times, not. "Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water..." Come to think of it, just like in the r/s!

8 years and I should know better. I post stories like this so hopefully they help someone.

[I Am Redeemed]

It sounds a little like you're getting dragged into her attempts to manage her anxieties.


If she had a fit over D9 wearing the shoes to her house, why didn't she take her to get shoes on her own time while she had the kids?

Instead, she asks to take D9 during your parenting time, then ropes the lot of you into going to the mall to get shoes that D9 doesn't really need and ends up frustrating everyone. You ended up going back to the mall at a later date with just D9 (again, to buy shoes) and got it done with no drama.

What was the (real) purpose of buying these shoes? Did D9 need shoes? Or did Mom "need" D9 to get new shoes to ease her anxiety?

Again, with the face washing and the lotion. Was S11's face dirty? Did he need to put on lotion? Or did you just reinforce that appeasing Mom was the best course of action?

It's a small thing, yes, but I think it demonstrates a larger pattern.

Letting yourself become enlisted in someone else's attempts to control their anxiety by controlling situations and people is a slippery slope.

[Turkish]

It sounds a little like you're getting dragged into her attempts to manage her anxieties.


If she had a fit over D9 wearing the shoes to her house, why didn't she take her to get shoes on her own time while she had the kids?

What was the (real) purpose of buying these shoes? Did D9 need shoes? Or did Mom "need" D9 to get new shoes to ease her anxiety?

A little the first, because I didn't do it right. I had gone to get another pair of shoes after the boots and high tops, yet D9 put her feet forward because she had an abrasion from sandals that her mom got her (I didn't blame) and I misjudged the size. For the second, yes. Waiting until the next weekend would have been no big deal (to me).

Again, with the face washing and the lotion. Was S11's face dirty? Did he need to put on lotion? Or did you just reinforce that appeasing Mom was the best course of action?

No. Maybe. Yes.

It's a small thing, yes, but I think it demonstrates a larger pattern.

Letting yourself become enlisted in someone else's attempts to control their anxiety by controlling situations and people is a slippery slope.

You're right and I'm teaching them to appease. S11 is like me. D9 is openly defiant and tells her mom that she doesn't like her. Mommy says, "that's OK," rather than drilling down to it.

I will give mommy credit for being more consistent with them. Her Mexican family has said on more than one occasion that she should just smack them into compliance, totally unaware of how their daughter, angry from a young age, turned out.

My ex has also said that she might be ASD1. I've read that it can be harder for women. It would explain a lot of things, like being clueless why our daughter was mad at her after returning from the mall.

[Turkish]

D9 missed me so her mom invited me to go watch fireworks. That went well though D9 ran off through the crowd and it took a while to find her. I was a little upset, D9 was more so and of course her mom.

When she dropped off the kids Monday, she told me that she had issues with our daughter. It started because she asked D to sweep. D9 did the sarcastic, defiant sweeping (she did that only once with me). It devolved into D being angry and real crying. D then asked what made her so upset about asking "please would you ask respectfully for the broom rather than throwing it down."

Here I didn't judge, but I've long experienced their mom as calmly and logically explaining severe situations.

D9 said that she felt triggered (not the word) as someone had asked her in the past please and it didn't go well, hurt her. Then my ex thought about her brother (who may have molested her just before she turned 2), and my ex's ex husband who's been out of the picture for almost 2 years, but that was a lot of conflict, including the kids witnessing physical DV, emotional conflict and D9 waking up to the cops on their apartment on Christmas eve 3 years ago (4?).

As a test, I asked her to sweep. I made a point that S11 did his laundry and watered the dog.  She did an OK job, but not angry.

Then her mom told me that she didn't do well sometimes, getting triggered by her childhood pain and sabotaging situations [me: internal *eyeroll* ya think? But you're almost 40 years old]. She also told her mom that everything would be better if we got back together. I told her mom that this was natural and she'll likely always feel like that.

D was OK with me. I asked her in a roundabout way if things were good and she replied that mommy was helping her with some stuff. I let it lie.

[Couper]

I'm only just now seeing this and there's not enough information here to quantify a problem, but with respect to the hives / rash, don't discount laundry detergent (wearing a shirt washed at one household vs. pants at another), abrasive fabric from a new piece of clothing, or since it seems to be confined to one area -- without cross-contamination elsewhere you'd expect if having touched something or amongst others in the same environment -- wearing a backpack.  Something as simple as throwing a weedeater strap over my shoulder will mark me.  Some of us are just more prone to these things than others. 

Also, wearing a new piece of unwashed clothing -- maybe new shirt but old pants.  I was once in need of new thermals when the weather turned quick and used them right out of the package without washing.  They're new, right?  Got more and more itchy throughout the day and, at that time not knowing what hives were, disrobed and was covered everywhere the thermals touched me and went holy crap, what is this!  It wouldn't settle down on its own and took Benadryl to fix it and I always make sure there's a bottle in the house now.

I only throw that out there because I am prone to such things and you are likely to see this issue raise its head again.  Purely food for thought.