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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Double standards in custody battles  (Read 629 times)
alleyesonme
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorcing
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« on: July 14, 2021, 11:37:28 PM »

I'd like to start this off by showing appreciation for some of the female posters here who have been so helpful to me and others. In no way do I mean this post as a male vs. female conflict.

At least in my jurisdiction, there are clearly double standards in terms of what behaviors are acceptable for a father and what behaviors are acceptable for a mother in a custody dispute. I genuinely feel like I am held to this standard where I have to be perfect at all times, yet my stbEX can say and do just about whatever she wants without suffering any consequences at all. In fact, all she has to do is utter some variation of "I'm the mom" and she gets rewarded for it. I've never asked for any special preferences, but I don't think it's too much to ask to be treated as equals.

For those of you who have felt that same injustice, how did you cope with it? Was there anything you were able to say to your attorney, a GAL, a custody evaluator, or the court that really resonated with them and actually gave you a level playing field?
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khibomsis
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Relationship status: Grieving
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2021, 04:15:31 AM »

Alleyes, no offense taken! What you say is perfectly true, courts have a predisposition towards the mother.

I don't have specific experience, just wanted to vaidate you. I am sure that others will come on board who have been through it. You might read ForeverDad's posts for inspiration on how to get to the other side. You will get through this.

A little off topic, but one thing that has become clear to me from years on these boards is how just little support there is out there for abused men. It must be an extremely isolating experience.  
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2021, 01:05:11 PM »

There's a history behind this preference, of course.  Historically, men were perceived as the head of the family and so the system could default to them.  Then middle of the past century a Tender Years Doctrine arose, that women were better parents, hence for a few decades the courts defaulted to favoring mothers.

Excerpt
The Tender Years Doctrine is a judicial presumption that operates in Divorce cases to give custody of a young child to the mother. Most states have eliminated this presumption, and some courts have held that the tender years doctrine violates the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution because it discriminates on the basis of sex...

However — and this is a big however — as the Tender Years Doctrine faded away as a reason to default preference to mothers, it appears the courts still defaulted to preferential treatment of mothers by not explaining, either verbally or in writing, why the court chose a mother for majority custody or parenting time over a father.  Essentially by its silence and the greater latitude allowed in issuing orders the practice has continued in many courts.

Often the father has to challenge the court not just why he has to prove himself to be a capable father but also why the mother should not be defaulted automatically to preferential treatment.  Or the reason is assumed to be that the father is the primary income earner for the family and the mother can care for the kids.  One of the problems with domestic or family courts is that they're granted discretionary authority to rule without necessarily explaining their reasons for a certain outcome.

This starts with the initial temporary order which typically assigns temporary custody and majority parenting time to one parent, again without explanation.  There are problems with such policies and procedures in our sort of cases.

I recall my lawyer estimating my divorce at 7 to 9 months.  He was way off.  From start to finish my divorce was two weeks shy of 2 years.  It was three times longer than a typical divorce.  One reason, in addition to her predicted obstruction, was that her temp order was so favorable to her there was every reason for er to delay any change and so I had to jump through every hoop of the court's steps before we could get to trial.

Also, I recall my divorce temp hearing was scheduled for about a half hour.  How to explain anything in that short time frame?  The magistrate did confirm my spouse had blocked contact with my preschooler for 3 months but all that got was his comment, "I'll fix that."  He merely reissued the prior separation order.  My lawyer shushed me, saying, "Be quiet, we'll fix it later."  Guess what?  During those two years not one clause was 'fixed' in the temp order.  It was always, the final decree will be better.  (The temp order gifted my stbEx temp custody and temp majority time so yes the final decree was better, but two years of parenting were impacted!)

What was the prior separation order?  She had gotten temp custody and temp majority time as part of her protection filing.  So strange, she also had to list whether there were any outstanding cases and so she listed the docket number of a case in municipal court where she was charged with Threat of DV.  All the magistrate did was remove our son from her 'protection', he then issued her, a mother facing a pending DV case, full temp custody and majority time.

As a disclaimer, I later learned that courts typically view as separate the adult relationship matters (such as DV) versus the parenting matters.  So yes, one could potentially be an abusive spouse in a pending case and yet be given preference in parenting.  It happened to me.

Over the years (8 years!) I did rise from being blocked to alternate weekends to equal time to legal guardianship to finally majority time during the school year.  (Courts prefer incremental adjustments, in order to make changes smaller and easier on the child, so I was told.)  It was at that point when he was almost 12 years old when we stopped going to court.

For that reason we strongly encourage our members to seek the best (or least bad) temporary order in that initial divorce hearing.  It is far more important than you think.  Don't sit back assuming it will be obvious you're the more stable parent or that it will be easy to regain your lost ground as parent.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 01:16:53 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

MeandThee29
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Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2021, 09:08:03 AM »

For that reason we strongly encourage our members to seek the best (or least bad) temporary order in that initial divorce hearing.  It is far more important than you think.  Don't sit back assuming it will be obvious you're the more stable parent or that it will be easy to regain your lost ground as parent.

I'm post-divorce but help with a group through my attorney's firm led by their in-house therapist. She always, always says this. You have to start with something no matter how unfair/awful/upsetting it is and then document-document-document. Like here, there are people in that group who hung on for the long haul and didn't give up. The initial default here is 50/50, but the judges in my area are willing to reconsider some cases. Some attorneys actually specialize in that.
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mart555
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2021, 11:41:59 AM »

For those of you who have felt that same injustice, how did you cope with it? Was there anything you were able to say to your attorney, a GAL, a custody evaluator, or the court that really resonated with them and actually gave you a level playing field?

Let her sink herself.  Stay factual, be assertive.  She'll ramble and whine for all sorts of things and then you hope they see the light because you have facts and evidence.   

I got that crap from the mediator and it drove me nuts.  "Poor mom" and "well the kids should definitely go spend much more time with the mom".   I lucked out with the GAL due to the evidence I had, and my lawyer is already aware of how the court system is unfair.  But it still sucks. 
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alleyesonme
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Relationship status: Divorcing
Posts: 347


« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2021, 08:12:49 PM »

Thank you all for the support, information and guidance.

Has anyone found a tactful and effective way to "call out" the court for the double standards/sexism? I've been wanting to do that for the longest time, but I also realize it could turn the court against me for good.
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mart555
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2021, 08:33:23 PM »

Can't really call out the court, that could backfire. Focus on the evidence:
- you are a good dad because of <x> and <y>
- kids like <x> and <y> with dad
- ...

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MeandThee29
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Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2021, 03:45:28 PM »

Frankly, I would focus on your own battle for now. Once you are on the other side, you may want to pick that up.

I have a friend who fought the courts for years mostly pro se against her ex-husband who was very "colorful" from a very "colorful" family and never in a million years should have had 50/50. But she started from there and kept fighting until she had full custody on all counts. Now she has a foundation and is indeed doing work to try to educate judges on the dangers of automatically granting 50/50. I hope she makes some headway.
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alleyesonme
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorcing
Posts: 347


« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 09:54:01 PM »

Thank you both for the advice - I'm right there with you.

I feel like even my own L has a different set of standards for me than for my ex. For example, we have court ordered FaceTime calls with whichever parent our D isn't with every night. During these calls when our D is with me, she sits on my lap, I don't say a word, and I make sure she talks to her mom for the entire time. Before the call even begins, I have her get any toys that she wants to play with during the call and bring them over, and I make sure she isn't hungry or thirsty. During these calls when our D is with my ex, my ex talks to our D over and over throughout the conversation, constantly interrupting our call, and they frequently walk away from the phone to get something to eat or drink. My ex will also frequently put our D in the middle of a crowded room with other people, rather than put her in a quiet place like I've requested. I've been asking my ex to handle my calls the same way I handle her calls for over a year now, but she refuses to change. I've been mentioning this to my L for several months now, and last week, he told me not to even send a text to my ex to reiterate my request. Instead, he said that this will just naturally start getting better when our D is older and can handle the phone by herself (she's 3). So I'm expected to just wait several years before I can have a peaceful call with our D, yet I have to act reasonably at all times.
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