What to do about her stuff

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My first post with background info is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=349479.0

Short version: My boyfriend and I asked our girlfriend to move out in mid-June. (Poly relationship). We suspect, and my therapist concurs, she may have uBPD.

In early July, she moved about half of her things out of our apartment. We have three weeks before he and I need to move to our new place.

A lot of her stuff is still here, including some large IKEA shelves, an electronic keyboard, guitar pedals, electronics in an apartment storage unit, and clothes.

We have severe doubts she will get the rest of this stuff moved by the time our lease is up. It's extremely disorganized - for a long time, we suspected hoarding disorder. Her lack of care for her possessions seems to reflect and perpetuate the constant state of chaos in her life.

She is now living with another partner in a city about an hour away and says she is too ill to complete the move at this time. She has Crohn's disease, which she does not manage well, and claims to have excruciating abdominal pain every day. She went to the ER this past weekend and was given fluids and anti-nausea medication. This was after she decided on her own to quit all of her meds, including four psychiatric medications, without doctor supervision. She refuses to take opioids for pain.

We don't know what to do with her stuff. I am torn between two options. I could pack her stuff myself and have it moved into a storage unit when we move our own things. I would then give her a deadline - say, a few months - before I stop paying for the storage unit. (She is unemployed with no income at the moment.) Or we can simply leave it all in our unit and let the apartment office handle it, since they will know the law about how long they have to hang onto unclaimed property before they can dispose of it.

I gave her money to buy the IKEA furniture (which she said would help her get organized) and the keyboard (which she said would improve her mental health). I have entertained the idea of selling her things to recoup some of the money I have given her, but I don't want to be accused in the future of stealing her things.

If we left her things behind, it would make it hard to clean the apartment before we leave - especially her bedroom and adjoining bathroom and walk-in closet. However, we would try to explain the situation to the leasing company, and hopefully they would send her the bill for any cleanup or moving her items.

FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) are telling me to bail her out one last time by taking care of her things for her. However, I also recognize that my coming to her rescue has never helped her to improve her own situation, but has only been used as justification by her for her supposed victimhood. The last few days, she has been sending me constant texts about how she has screwed up her life and has no options for improving it short of selling her body online. (She constantly identifies herself as disabled and unable to work but has never accessed any disability resources.)

When we asked her to move out, I agreed to continue to see her afterward on the condition that she would work on her physical and mental health. I see no indication of that (although she'll always claim she is doing her best, and it's the health system that puts obstacles in her way. For example, she is angry the ER did not send her home with fresh supplies of all her meds - the same meds she decided to stop taking on her own.)

I am almost at the point where I'm hoping for a discard from her. But I still feel occasional twinges of guilt, because I don't have much hope she'll be able to complete this move on her own. And I don't want to suffer the fallout of "abandoning" her possessions instead of taking care of them for her.

Despite that, I am still leaning toward leaving them behind and letting the chips fall where they may. What do others think?

[LovelyRita50]

My first post with background info is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=349479.0

Short version: My boyfriend and I asked our girlfriend to move out in mid-June. (Poly relationship). We suspect, and my therapist concurs, she may have uBPD.

In early July, she moved about half of her things out of our apartment. We have three weeks before he and I need to move to our new place.

A lot of her stuff is still here, including some large IKEA shelves, an electronic keyboard, guitar pedals, electronics in an apartment storage unit, and clothes.

We have severe doubts she will get the rest of this stuff moved by the time our lease is up. It's extremely disorganized - for a long time, we suspected hoarding disorder. Her lack of care for her possessions seems to reflect and perpetuate the constant state of chaos in her life.

She is now living with another partner in a city about an hour away and says she is too ill to complete the move at this time. She has Crohn's disease, which she does not manage well, and claims to have excruciating abdominal pain every day. She went to the ER this past weekend and was given fluids and anti-nausea medication. This was after she decided on her own to quit all of her meds, including four psychiatric medications, without doctor supervision. She refuses to take opioids for pain.

We don't know what to do with her stuff. I am torn between two options. I could pack her stuff myself and have it moved into a storage unit when we move our own things. I would then give her a deadline - say, a few months - before I stop paying for the storage unit. (She is unemployed with no income at the moment.) Or we can simply leave it all in our unit and let the apartment office handle it, since they will know the law about how long they have to hang onto unclaimed property before they can dispose of it.

I gave her money to buy the IKEA furniture (which she said would help her get organized) and the keyboard (which she said would improve her mental health). I have entertained the idea of selling her things to recoup some of the money I have given her, but I don't want to be accused in the future of stealing her things.

If we left her things behind, it would make it hard to clean the apartment before we leave - especially her bedroom and adjoining bathroom and walk-in closet. However, we would try to explain the situation to the leasing company, and hopefully they would send her the bill for any cleanup or moving her items.

FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) are telling me to bail her out one last time by taking care of her things for her. However, I also recognize that my coming to her rescue has never helped her to improve her own situation, but has only been used as justification by her for her supposed victimhood. The last few days, she has been sending me constant texts about how she has screwed up her life and has no options for improving it short of selling her body online. (She constantly identifies herself as disabled and unable to work but has never accessed any disability resources.)

When we asked her to move out, I agreed to continue to see her afterward on the condition that she would work on her physical and mental health. I see no indication of that (although she'll always claim she is doing her best, and it's the health system that puts obstacles in her way. For example, she is angry the ER did not send her home with fresh supplies of all her meds - the same meds she decided to stop taking on her own.)

I am almost at the point where I'm hoping for a discard from her. But I still feel occasional twinges of guilt, because I don't have much hope she'll be able to complete this move on her own. And I don't want to suffer the fallout of "abandoning" her possessions instead of taking care of them for her.

Despite that, I am still leaning toward leaving them behind and letting the chips fall where they may. What do others think?

[formflier]

Wow..what an issue.  I've done real estate for several years, so I'll give you some thoughts.

1.  Are all of you on the lease?  If so I think you would all get a bill.  I would encourage you to ask the leasing company tomorrow for how this would be handled.  Most likely advise asking in person and if they do say they will ONLY bill her, I would then follow up via email and get that in writing.  (again..I don't think this would happen, but it is worth an ask).

2.  When you move are you going to get a uhaul, how are you moving your stuff?  Rather than putting it into storage I think I would drive it all and hour and unload it for them in their place, ask them for gas money but don't expect it.

3.  Can you get something in writing saying that she is abandoning the property and then you drive it to the dump (with whatever you are going to move with)...and get rid of it.

4.  If she says she abandons it and there is value..sell it quickly on facebook for cheap and hopefully that covers the cost of you disposing of the rest.

5.  So as I'm still thinking outloud..to summarize.  Ask leasing company how it will be handled/get it in writing if they say they will ONLY bill her (don't hold your breath).  Then assuming the answer is they will bill all on the lease, present her with two choices.

1.  She sends you in writing that she is abandoning all the property.
2.  She gives you gas money for you bringing it to her.


I'm not really for the storage idea because you still do the work of loading it up, you spend money for several months and then when you don't pay for the storage, they will still likely come after YOU for collections/costs (if I was storage place..I would).

Anyway..some starting ideas..please let us know what she says.

Best,

FF

[LovelyRita50]

Here's some additional info:

Yes, we're all on the lease. So we'll likely be on the hook for junk hauling and cleanup with the leasing office. We'll see what we can get them to agree to.

We are boxing all of our things but hiring movers to move all the boxes and furniture to our new place. Our own move is just a few miles; adding her things to the mix and moving them to her would greatly increase the cost, especially because she lives in a different city an hour away.

Also, my understanding is she has very little room left at her new house. She's renting a single bedroom from her partner. She'll likely have to store things herself if she wants to keep all of it. My partner and I aren't in the position to move the larger furniture items ourselves, as we both own smaller cars.

We are leaning toward giving her an ultimatum. Our move is scheduled for Aug. 10. Our old lease expires on the 15th, giving us a few days to clean the old apartment. We could tell her she has until Aug. 11-12 to remove her things, then we will hire junk haulers to get rid of it. We would try to get her to agree to this plan in writing. My concern is whether we have the legal right to get rid of her stuff. I am guessing she could take us to small-claims court for the value of the items.

My boyfriend brought up the idea of telling her that if she leaves things behind for us to deal with, we will go NC with her from that point forward. That might motivate her to find a solution to the problem rather than letting us deal with it for her (her usual MO). She has written off our boyfriend; he was most often cast as the persecutor in her little dramas. But I have been the rescuer, and even if I say I won't rescue her again, I know she's motivated to keep me around as a source of supply.

[ForeverDad]

I think you should somehow squeeze in that you had provided the funds for much of this and whether she wants to claim them or you will dispose of them.  Since she doesn't have much room, she may tell you to handle that.  Don't be specific on how you will handle their disposal or sale or donation.  Keep it simple but yes it would be nice to have something tangible to relieve you of worries later.

[formflier]

We'll see what we can get them to agree to.

Good luck!

Think about this for a moment.  What motivation would a business have to transfer cost from someone else...to themselves?  That's not a rational business decision.

I'm not suggesting you don't try...but...be ready for the rational result.

The other thing is this.  The only real way to understand your options is to have a brief call with a real estate attorney.  They can point you to the right statutes to read and also can let you know how local small claims courts use those statues.  

Small claims can be a bit of "wild west" and they don't always follow the law exactly.  Yes...I just said that...and know it's true from personal experience..lots of evictions and real estate situations where I was trying to get my property back from renters or weird situations.

As a practical matter, if she isn't going to make effort to get her stuff...is she really going to make effort to sue you and take you to court and face a potential counter claim from you?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I think you should somehow squeeze in that you had provided the funds for much of this and whether she wants to claim them or you will dispose of them. 

I'm so glad that ForeverDad said this...let me amend my advice slightly.

1.  The real answer comes from a lawyer (no change)
2.  When you reach out verbally (call first..no texting) I want you to use the following language.  "Are you still interested in my things I was letting you use (everything that you bought) and for the rest of it ask her if she is interested "that stuff" (just describe it).  Don't use the words "your stuff".

3.  If you ever get to the point of putting stuff in writing...ALWAYS describe your stuff that you paid for (even if she handed over the money at the store) as "my stuff I was letting you borrow".  So you are asking if she wants to come get it and continue using it.  For the rest of the stuff...ask if it is hers and if so when will she come get it.

Do you get the vibe here?

If it was me I would ask her when she is going to come get the stuff you were letting her borrow and pay you for it...but that's just me.

Best,

FF

[B53]

Maybe sending her a certified letter, that she has to sign for, asking her to come get her stuff might protect you in a future legal situation. That would show that you informed her that you where moving and she choose not to pick it up. Just a thought.

[kells76]

To any of these excellent suggestions, I'd add a built-in "outcome" that a non-response equals a response for you to move forward.

I.e., in a "normal" situation, we can say things like "let me know what you want me to do with the stuff", and we can expect the person to get back to us quickly.

With a pwPD, they may stonewall/drag things out, and then once you make a decision, because you can't wait on them forever, complain that "you never listen" and want the stuff right that minute.

If it were me, I might say something like "if I don't hear from you in an email by the end of July 29th, I'll assume that you are OK with me disposing with the stuff however works for me".

That way, if you do hear back, great, and if you don't, the stonewalling won't stop you from moving forward with your life.

[formflier]

Maybe sending her a certified letter, that she has to sign for, asking her to come get her stuff might protect you in a future legal situation. That would show that you informed her that you where moving and she choose not to pick it up. Just a thought.

If you don't get a response via normal means, then definitely you want to do something like this.

Best,

FF

[LovelyRita50]

Update! Comments are welcome & appreciated!

UdpwBPD arrived yesterday with friends and a U-Haul & took most of the rest of her stuff.

(She sold her car, so she needs to rent a vehicle or get a ride to come here.)

Some of her stuff is still here. I'm most worried about a HUGE IKEA wardrobe with mirror doors, an IKEA cabinet in boxes (she never put it together) and two 7-foot pieces of plywood she was going to make into shelving.

She says she's trying to figure out a way to return this next week to get the rest of her stuff. She asked if I could ask OUR movers to haul the big wardrobe down to the apartment trash room. I said I would try, but after thinking about it more, that's a no-go. It's one thing to put a broken fan or lamp there, but not a 7-foot piece of furniture.

I sent her some texts about it and was on the verge of offering to bring her stuff to her that she really wants to keep, and then trashing the rest myself (likely I'd hire a junk hauler.) I was ready to just get things over and done with rather than fighting her to take responsibility.

[LovelyRita50]

Continuing - part of what I wrote did not post for some reason.

Here's our conversation:

Me: Hi, was thinking over how to get your big stuff that's left out of here. Wardrobe, big IKEA boxes, wood slabs.

If you can't take them, I'm not comfortable leaving them intact in the trash room. They're too big, and the trash guys here would end up having to break them down somehow to dispose of them. I don't think that's fair to them.

I think either you should break them down to put in trash room to dispose of, or find/hire someone to haul them off for you.

Also just a reminder, we move on Aug. 10. If there's anything of yours left here after that, it will get thrown away because we don't have space to store it.

Her: OK thanks.

Me: Do you know what day you're likely to come? Just trying to time my end-of-semester work.

Her: Wednesday or so. I'm trying to figure out how to get out there.

I don't know how else we're going to get that out of there. I don't know if you know, but I'm barely mobile. I'm just trying to do the best I know how. Everything keeps getting f$#! up whenever I try to coordinate stuff. I don't have a car to come up. We're down to the wire and it's been a race against my health the whole time. I'll deal with the cabinet. Don't worry about it. I'll take it down to the trash room myself.

(She has Crohn's disease, which I'm convinced is exacerbated by her not taking her medications regularly, skipping out on treatments, and the stress and chaos she constantly puts herself and others through.)

Me: Thinking through how I might be able to help. What's left here that you want to keep? Like your piano, music books, maybe a box or two of other stuff? And prescription meds?

Her: I don't want you to touch any of my stuff. I just wanted you to ask your movers to take 10 minutes and move that down to the trash room. It's certainly your right not to want to help me. I'll deal with my own problems.

Me: We could ask the movers to do that. I just think it should be taken apart first. And I'm worried about the mirror doors & panels being too big to put in a dumpster. I don't think we're supposed to just abandon big furniture items in the trash room.

Her: This doesn't affect you in the slightest whether you ask them to move it or not. Don't worry about it, I'll take care of it.

She then sent a couple of nasty texts about our other partner (poly relationship) asking if he:s put on weight and whether he's drinking more.

[LovelyRita50]

I said no, and she ended the conversation with: "I guess it's not my problem since he dumped me. I was just concerned. But I'll stop caring. Glad things are working out for you guys."

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. What's going on here? She is usually eager to have me take on responsibility for her. Is she splitting me black? Is this the beginning of a discard?