Estrangements Wonderings

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hello All,
    I'm wondering what estrangements have been like for others, here.
    Our adult son's first imposed estrangement happened because I had made what I thought were two totally innocuous remarks, during what I thought was an enjoyable visit for both of us. (Of course, I understand, now, more of how BPD's read into others' comments.) Only when I returned to my home state did we get texts about how toxic we are - referring to me, his mother, as his father's "bi**h." This, shockingly, after he had said how he wished his dad was on the trip, to rub his back when he got stressed. At the time, I thought it was a bit strange that a 37 yr. old man would yearn for his dad to rub his back...he had sounded like a child, again.  (When "J" was a child, and having meltdowns, my husband would soothe him by rubbing his back.) I was dumbfounded by the sudden portrayal of us as toxic, as I had thought we had such a good time together, laughed together on our road trip, hugged at the airport, declared love, said how we'd miss one another...That estrangement lasted 8 months, until "J" called to apologize - then asked us to help him move and to temporarily live with us. Back then, my husband went across the country to get him and to load up a UHaul. "J" is now working in another country, BTW.
     Now, he is in his initiated estrangement from us because he does not like who we voted for, does not like our political and spiritual values. (Keep in mind, when our kids became adults, we did not initiate ideological discussions, even. Just knowing our beliefs differ infuriates him.) Last week was his birthday, so my husband and I each sent him a one-line, loving "Happy Birthday" text. We've heard nothing back. We've expressed short messages of good will, in the recent past, as well.
    It's difficult, isn't it, when their birthdays come around...It hurts when we reflect on the innumerable times we've put ourselves out for our kid, scratching our heads and wondering how our love gets doubted and us vilified.
    So I'm wondering, concerning you all...1) how many estrangements has your BPD initiated? 2) how long have they been? 3) had yours responded to birthday wishes?
   We've gentle friends whose daughter has not contacted them, or her 3 siblings, in about 5 years. I know others have worse situations than we do.
   I'm just wondering what others' experiences have been.

[By Still Water]

Hello All,
    I'm wondering what estrangements have been like for others, here.
    Our adult son's first imposed estrangement happened because I had made what I thought were two totally innocuous remarks, during what I thought was an enjoyable visit for both of us. (Of course, I understand, now, more of how BPD's read into others' comments.) Only when I returned to my home state did we get texts about how toxic we are - referring to me, his mother, as his father's "bi**h." This, shockingly, after he had said how he wished his dad was on the trip, to rub his back when he got stressed. At the time, I thought it was a bit strange that a 37 yr. old man would yearn for his dad to rub his back...he had sounded like a child, again.  (When "J" was a child, and having meltdowns, my husband would soothe him by rubbing his back.) I was dumbfounded by the sudden portrayal of us as toxic, as I had thought we had such a good time together, laughed together on our road trip, hugged at the airport, declared love, said how we'd miss one another...That estrangement lasted 8 months, until "J" called to apologize - then asked us to help him move and to temporarily live with us. Back then, my husband went across the country to get him and to load up a UHaul. "J" is now working in another country, BTW.
     Now, he is in his initiated estrangement from us because he does not like who we voted for, does not like our political and spiritual values. (Keep in mind, when our kids became adults, we did not initiate ideological discussions, even. Just knowing our beliefs differ infuriates him.) Last week was his birthday, so my husband and I each sent him a one-line, loving "Happy Birthday" text. We've heard nothing back. We've expressed short messages of good will, in the recent past, as well.
    It's difficult, isn't it, when their birthdays come around...It hurts when we reflect on the innumerable times we've put ourselves out for our kid, scratching our heads and wondering how our love gets doubted and us vilified.
    So I'm wondering, concerning you all...1) how many estrangements has your BPD initiated? 2) how long have they been? 3) had yours responded to birthday wishes?
   We've gentle friends whose daughter has not contacted them, or her 3 siblings, in about 5 years. I know others have worse situations than we do.
   I'm just wondering what others' experiences have been.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[beatricex]

hi ByStillWater,
My husband's youngest daughter who we suspect is BPD initiated No Contact with us last May.  The ultimatum given was that if my husband didn't divorce me, he would never see her or her kids again (they are 1 and 3).  In a moment of shame, confusion and very distraught over this, I sent her some articles on narcissitic  mothers (her mother is Narcissitic) and suggested therapy.  She then said if we contacted her again she would file for harrassment.  So no, we don't try to contact her, we don't want the police called or for her to file a lawsuit, we are respecting her strong wish to not be contacted.

The funny thing is this: I have gone no contact with my own mother who is BPD.  But I did so with a reason (Mom's continued emotional abuse, asking me and my siblings to hate others on her "sh*t list," gossiping maliciously about anyone in the family she doesn't like including all those that ever married in to the family, making someone out to be the "bad guy" or blacksheep for petty stuff, having favorite grandkids and telling the grandkids they're not her favorite etc), while my step daughter has provided none.  It's clear she doesn't like me, but she hasn't fully explained herself.  So I'm not sure either, what I may have said.  I suspect it's not something I said at all, but the simple fact that as the stepmom, I'm taking her Dad away from her.  She has painted me all black.  The relationship my husband had with his first wife, my stepdaughter's bio mom was not the same as ours.  My husband and I are best friends.  Part of his identity today is that he's married to me and we have adventures together (we are very happy, he wasn't with his ex wife), and we work through things and he's a better person because of it.  He's also financially in a better place with me.  All this I believe is too much for his youngest daughter.  She actually liked him better when he was sad and alone and after his divorce from her mom.  He also consistently took her side, my step daughter's bio mom was cut off first because "she's a terrible mom" and she was to my BPD stepdaughter.  A lot of fights between bio mom and stepdaughter, knock out drag out ones, and  my husband was the one that came to his daughter's rescue.  Bio mom didn't empathize at all, told her that her problems with people were "her fault."  When my step daughter met her high school sweetheart (now husband) and moved in with his family, bio mom said "good, now you're their problem not mine!"

So I suspect, because she has cut off her bio mom, she has to take all that frustration and aggression out on me now because since her bio mom remarried, and doesn't seem to care (she doesn't show up to the kid's birthdays, baby showers, holidays, she's checked out) but I DO CARE, I am now the one to take the brunt of the emotional abuse.

I am also the one who now loves her Dad.  I am the one that gets to read text messages and look at grandkid pics on her Dad's phone (before the estrangement she never sent them to me, only him, but he always showed them to me).  I am the one to "be proud" of her (not her bio Mom), to tell her "I love you" (she thinks this is weird and creepy), and to show up for important events, like I was at the hospital with her Dad for the birth of the first grandchild (we would have been there for the second too, but she banned us from coming).  Not her mom. 

I do feel in my case it's misplaced aggression.  And the huge shame she feels and the thought of losing her Dad, it's too much.  Now if she told people this, she would look like she needs therapy, so I suspect she doesn't give real reasons but instead tells people things like "I'm not good for her Dad because I let him drink" (it's true while she was trying to get her Dad to slow down or even stop, kind of like a wife not the kid, I let my husband do what he wants, I'm not his mother.  If he wants to drink beers on the weekend, he drinks beers on the weekend).  She married into a super religious family, which just happens it's against their religion to drink alcohol, so this is something convenient she can point out and say I'm bad for.  Because I too drink alcohol.  It's not the drinking of the alcohol though, it's the fact she has lost control.  My husband also got baptized in her very strict church, right before he met me, so he was going to church with her.  In fact, one of our earliest dates, I went to her church with him.  It's alight, but I can't sing and it's a "singing" kind of church.  This religion actually teaches in the old school method that only bible music is OK to listen to, and no dancing.  You can probably guess what religion it is.  But, that is not what the young people do, they break the old school rules so my stepdaughter and her husband ironically listen to Rap music (not just regular pop music, which isn't even allowed in this church, but RAP).  They smoke Hooka.  They probably drink sometimes (at least I know  my step daughter does with her sister), but then they goto church Twice every Sunday - once for morning service then again in the afternoon because that is what "good" people in this church do, and pretend to be holier than though.  I think the religion itself is an excuse to "be different" because she IS different.  But there is no room for other opinions, she is always right and everyone else is always wrong (just like her bio Mom).  And the suggestion of mental illness or therapy appalls her, while I have been through a decade or so of therapy, am not ashamed of it, and will freely talk about it to anyone who wants to know the benefits of couseling.  See, we are very different, and she doesn't trust different, she wants her Mommy, and Daddy, even though they have not really supported her either, not in the perfect way she imagines they should - totally enmeshed with her, agreeing with all she says, hating who she hates (like my Mom, why we suspect she's also BPD), and we should not question her.  Also, she prides herself on she makes more money than her Dad and she's only 26.  Well, she did before COVID.  She's a makeup artist and she does weddings, but we suspect that fizzled out because weddings didn't happen for the past year.  They are only just starting to come back.  So the estrangement, again, may have had little to do with us, and more to do with the fact that prior events in her life she could point at and feel proud of (and one up her Dad about), are no longer in place.  So I did notice that when someone with BPD feels bad about themself, they take it out on others.  In your case, it's entirely possible you said nothing wrong to your son, but he is not in a good space (could be the stress of getting this great new job, now there's an expectation he must suceed, see?)

my two cents

b

[adeliagard]

These are very sad stories. In such situations, only patience and love helps to cope.