Husband enmeshed with BPD MIL

[pursuingJoy]

Makes sense. Great feedback. I love DR.

In my case it's a little trickier because the strings aren't defined ahead of time. H can say outright that there are no strings and technically he's right. I know from experience that the strings are the unspoken obligations and pressure, the connection between them that deepens.

I hold no power in this situation. H doesn't want me to be upset, but he is also going to do what they want to do. I'm trying to accept this reality and figure out how to at least not paint myself as more of a persecutor than I already am. I also want to be smart and find a way to get the 'no strings' thing in writing.

I read an article on generosity as manipulation. It says, "People who want to control others are trying to relieve the feeling that they’re lacking something." It's regressive, parents who do this can't see their children as anything other than children. They're threatened when their child tries to grow up, get space and pursue the regular trajectory of adult life.

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[pursuingJoy]

I just wrote him an email outlining a list of questions. I also VERY briefly (using I statements) explained why I am concerned, giving 3 short, specific examples of how her past gifts have come with strings. I tried to keep it positive and show gratitude for her generosity.

I came across this and it's been really helpful.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331852.0

Thanks again for your responses, all. It's incredibly helpful and stabilizing to hear your thoughts.  I'm very, very thankful for you.

[zachira]

Your husband seems to go back and forth between doing what his mother wants and what you want. His mother wants to control him. You are doing your best to teach him boundaries, have a healthy couple's relationship, and help him to be a mature man with his own identity. Maybe some individual therapy for your husband would help, if he would be willing to go.
You are doing an amazing job at setting boundaries. I feel sad for how tiring and frustrating this is for you.
My large dysfunctional family uses money as a means to control others. I was constantly turning down my mother's offers to give me money which I did not need. She was only able to see me as someone who was desperately poor, could not support myself, even though it was quite the opposite in reality. I would set a rule that you do not accept extravagant gifts from your MIL, and talk about this in couples therapy. Your therapist should understand what is an acceptable gift as there are specific rules in the code of ethics for therapists about what kind of gifts a therapist can accept from a client. When is the gift just a gift and when is it a means to change and control a relationship for the benefit of the gift giver? You are completely correct that taking the truck is going to just cause problems between you, your husband, and MIL.

[pursuingJoy]

"People who want to control others are trying to relieve the feeling that they’re lacking something."

Does that apply to your family too, z?

[GaGrl]

My H's Ex is a manipulative gift-giver. She gifts, then the gift somehow turns into a loan that must be paid back. My SD40 has learned this the hard way and no longer accepts gifts from her mother. So frustrating.

I would wonder how the truck gift would tie into expectations of transporting your MIL wherever she wants to go on her whims and schedules. Also, how would the truck gift tie into an increased expectation that she visit and stay at your house? "Oh, but look how much she does for us..."

No way would I want my name on the title of the truck.

[pursuingJoy]

I would wonder how the truck gift would tie into expectations of transporting your MIL wherever she wants to go on her whims and schedules. Also, how would the truck gift tie into an increased expectation that she visit and stay at your house? "Oh, but look how much she does for us..."

No way would I want my name on the title of the truck.

MIL used to gift us money every year to get Christmas gifts for the kids. I was always very thankful for her generosity and made sure to express it to her. As the kids opened presents I made sure to let them know that they were from MIL.

After the conflict with her in 2019, H repeatedly told me, "You're so ungrateful. Look at all she's done for us, the Christmas money she's given us, all the help." I was supposed to feel obligated to her because she gave us a gift. I brought this up in my message to him and asked him why he thought this gift would be different.

I don't want my name on the title either. Nope, not a chance in hades. I asked him whose name would be on the title.

Him: My thoughts are hers and mine.  But I would need to discuss that.  She may just want hers on it.  It would likely need to be titled in our state, so we would need to discuss.  But my preference is hers and Mine.  

Me: If it’s a gift to you, why would her name be on the title? Does she want to use the truck someday, or is she worried I’ll take it if something happens to you? Is it just an ownership thing – she paid for it so her name gets to be on the title? If it’s a gift, and it’s free and clear as you say, why wouldn’t it be in your name alone?

Him: She is buying the truck.  

Not us.  

Gifts are not loans.  

I am just unclear why this has to be so difficult. I don’t have any issue with talking about this.  I don’t have any issue with not asking for money.  I never have.  But when it involves anything dealing with her.  It becomes so complex.  You tell me you don’t have issues with her, you like her, you just have boundaries, then what boundary is she crossing by giving us something that is not money and would be used.  Why do we still have things she has given us as gifts in the house today – the bed, furniture?  Wouldn’t all of that be the same thing.  This just doesn’t really add up to me.  

And, scene.

He is saying if he doesn't ask for it, it's just offered and accepted, it's not violating our boundary of financial independence. Strange justification.

I've never said I don't have any issues with her.

I accepted the bed as a gift. It was hers, she was getting a new one, and we needed one. It was an ugly orange so I told H I wanted to stain it. He hemmed and hawed and said I better ask her first. I asked and she was deeply hurt. She said, "You can stain it when I die."

H finally asked his mom again if I could stain it and she grudgingly agreed. I stained it the next day . If I could afford a new bed, I'd get one in a heartbeat.

Sorry for all this info. I'm trying to keep conversations with him short and concise, but there is so much going on here. It helps to write it out.

[formflier]

Your head is in the right space...Gift or not. 

If it is a gift..it's a gift.

The bed is NOT a gift, it is an item you have been kinda tricked into being a caretaker of.

I'm thinking that you go all in with supporting this..as long as it is a gift and there are no expectations..other that you guys enjoy it. 

I think you both have a conversation with her..very brief (channel Dave R here).  So generous..so thoughtful and then ask her if she has any expectations.

That will likely catch her off guard and she will likely say "no".  Accept it..thank her and move on.

Then...the MOMENT, there is a suggestion by either one of them that there are strings attached...ungrateful...you need a couple neutral ways to call them on it...in kinda a perplexed way.

I think you follow up the meeting/talk with MIL with a brief email note thanking her again for her thoughtfulness and for her clarity of no expectations.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

As a separate, yet related issue with your hubby...find some of the most ridiculous issues (like family bathroom) and those need to be poised to rise to the surface at a moments notice.

So...

Him..blah blah blah..why don't you like her...blah blah blah

you:  deadpan with a bit of perplexed..."oh...bad bathroom memories"

he will likely try to call you on it...

Immediately pivot to "I'm ready for your Mom to heal this rift..are you?"

Big picture..keep handing it back where it belongs.

Best,

FF

[kells76]

Some side thoughts...

If "the truck" happens, AND you've already chosen to protect yourself by making sure you're not on any paperwork...

After that, you could consider "declining to participate" in anything involving the truck.

"Hey babe, want to ride with me in the truck to do X?"
"Sorry, no thanks, already doing Z".

"Hey babe, can you help me wash the truck?"
"Oh no, it's not my thing, hope it goes well."

"Babe, can you just take the truck to the dealer really quick for Y?"
"Oh honey, it's not my truck, I'm just not able to help... want pasta or soup for dinner?"

You could decide if going that route meshes with your values and boundaries.

[pursuingJoy]

ff - thanks for the reminder. You're right I need to keep it in his court.

kells, great suggestions to keep on the back burner. Emotionally I will respond that way if he makes a decision with his mom/without me. I won't want anything to do with it.

While I really believe we need to talk through what it means to accept a gift from his mom, part of me hopes we can work something out. I'd love to see him have a truck. He would use a truck all day every day. We do a lot of home improvement projects, he hunts, he could help friends, take junk to the landfill, the list goes on. I really miss his old truck.

I've been emailing H this morning (we tend to do better via email, just because we stay calm and can plan what to say) and I'm beginning to think that the meat of this is simply wrestling with what 'gifts' mean to MIL. He asked, "How is this any different than accepting the bed as a gift." I said it wasn't any different and that was the problem.

[formflier]

 

I think you should ALWAYS start incorporating the phrase "gifts with strings attached"...say it explicitly.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

It is no different than the gift (with strings attached -- excellent call-out by FF) of the bed.

Spoken: I want to give you this bed, to move into your house and he used by your family. I don't want or need it anymore.

Unspoken: ...but I want to retain control over it until I die, and anything you do outside that parameter will insult me and result in my acting out my displeasure in various unpleasant ways.

So...

Spoken: I want to buy you a truck. It will be titled in your name and insured by you and be garaged at your house.

Unspoken: ...but... [and here's what needs to be clarified.]

[formflier]

So...it's probably wise of me to give the 30,000 foot view of why I'm giving the advice I am.

1.  Hubby repeatedly chooses PJ, especially when it's "obvious" that MIL is whackadoodle.  (family bathroom)

2.  Hubby gets confused when it's closer to normal.

3.  Hubby wants support of PJ and MIL, and responds well to healthy support from PJ.

4.  PJ seems to do better when doing boundaries and staying away from even the perception of persecutor role.  (and ignoring invitations to persecute)

Therefore

Give hubby full support for a "gift" (a healthy one)...clarify it is a gift and then "turn your light on".  Anytime the "non-gift" shows up..it will be seen in the light, not because you are a persecutor..but because you have a light.  It just is...like the sky is blue.

Let the bed incident inform you.

Get the truck, never ever ever EVER ask.  Naval Aviators have a saying...better to ask forgiveness..than permission.

So...truck shows up and off PJ and the ferret go.  Take pics.  Send them to MIL and everyone in the family with "glowing appreciation".

Look for ways to modify the truck...put a personal touch on it. 

When the subject of MIL "feelings" comes up...ask back in an odd...perplexed way?  "Oh my..I recall she didn't have any expectations...I'm sure she will work through this."

Get the vibe?

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

Spoken: I want to buy you a truck. It will be titled in your name and insured by you and be garaged at your house.

Unspoken: ...but... [and here's what needs to be clarified.]

Exactlyyyyy. The fact is, she hasn't clarified the expectation. I believe she putting money in the bank so that she can withdraw later. He will deny there is a connection.

Yesterday I challenged him about whose name should be on the title. She told him that she'd put it in her name. That, to me, is a  . Here's what I said:

I am genuinely curious about why she wouldn’t just title the vehicle over to you. Putting her name alone on the truck leaves her as the owner, you as a borrower. At that point it’s not a gift. The truck is being loaned to you to use. Putting both of your names is slightly better, in that you would actually own the vehicle, but I still find it odd that she would be listed as the owner. Gifts are given free and clear, without leftover ownership. I’m certain she intends it as a gift. She won’t want it back, right? It’s not like she wants a truck? Or the mess of dealing with it?

When the subject of MIL "feelings" comes up...ask back in an odd...perplexed way?  "Oh my..I recall she didn't have any expectations...I'm sure she will work through this."

Solid assessment ff. This comment makes me think that we should ask MIL outright if she has any expectations. She will look shocked and hurt and say, "Oh heavens no, I'm doing this out of the kindness of my glorious perfection, an outpouring of my pure Madonna's heart and loving kindness for my husban- I mean, son."

This way if she tries to use it later (BECAUSE SHE WILL) we will have the actual conversation to fall back on. Right now I'm relying on H's assessment of her expectations. I'm not sure that's enough.

What I'd like to do is make his sole name on the title a condition of receipt. See, MIL cosigned on a car for her granddaughter. GD didn't make payments and they had a falling out, MIL and H confiscated the car. MIL gives $ when she's happy, then withholds it when she's not. She's asked for gifts to be returned to her when things aren't going her way.

H gets the truck and falls in love, all is well for a while. Down the road we have an issue with her. If her name is the only one on the truck, MIL will take the truck. H knows this, so he's more likely to acquiesce, even though he would never admit in a million years that she's got him in a vice grip.

She wants leverage. Her name on the title would give her that.

[formflier]

Exactlyyyyy. The fact is, she hasn't clarified the expectation. I believe she putting money in the bank so that she can withdraw later. He will deny there is a connection.

So she can "attempt" to withdraw later.  They will both deny it..and that's fine.  You should deny it as well and SEPARATE FUTURE ISSUES (you do this..regardless of what "they" do).

MIL "blah blah blah...witches on broomsticks and trucks..I'm generous and you should come worship me for the weekend on short notice...blah blah...I hate you for painting my bed"

PJ:  (imagine Roman gladiator days...we here at BPDfamily are the masses in the stands and the "coaches")  You and MIL are the "gladiators".  And you remember..."don't play her game"...you pause take a deep breath and ignore all the invitations for dysfunction...

PJ: "Oh that sounds lovely..I wish we had more notice.  MIL worship service this weekend doesn't work for us but we could schedule an exorcism for a 3 weekends from now"

Big picture:  The reason they do what they do is because it works...the only antidote is to do what you can so it doesn't work.  Don't enter into drama...there is a legitimate question about a visit, deal with that..yes or no...let her be happy or in a huff (that's her deal...as are her "reasons")

I think I want to add an "and also" to my prior advice.  Regardless of saying yes or no to the truck...this should be a  you and hubby together thing.

I'm very sympathetic to your hubby being on accounts and all that for an aging parent (I'm in the middle of that with Mom).  I'm also on shared title to Mom's van...but it's "Mom's van"...We bought a lifetime warranty on the van (Chrysler) and as long as the title never changes hands..warranty stays in force.  So...when Mom passes away, nothing needs to happen with the title.

Again...it's "mom's van".

In this case it is being presented as "hubby truck".  (again..I should open about my sympathies...I rarely find a truck I don't want to buy, use borrow..etc etc..recently bought a couple dump trucks..so...anyway)

Does your hubby like Dave Ramsey?  I think you should let him listen to the "strings attached" I sent you.  I also think you should find other examples where Dave really focuses on the marital unit doing things financially together...such as accepting gifts.

Drop the BPD thing (for now) and just "channel" DR.  He is very effective on sorting out "gift or not"...His part about "being scared will we disappoint you, so we'll have to decline..thanks so much for thinking of us.."  is genius.

This comment makes me think that we should ask MIL outright if she has any expectations.

Hmm...you guys should ask her this together, hopefully in person.  This is part of the "if it's a gift..sign it over, otherwise we are scared we will disappoint you...and thanks again for thinking of us."

This way if she tries to use it later (BECAUSE SHE WILL) we will have the actual conversation to fall back on. Right now I'm relying on H's assessment of her expectations. I'm not sure that's enough.

DO NOT RELY ON YOUR HUSBANDS ASSESSMENT.

Clear conversation between the three of you.
 
In most states...you will "own" the vehicle even if name isn't on title.  However...I would suggest (not a hill I would die on)..that you ask for Title in both your names...quickly give that up for hubby as sole name with NO MIL on title.

Once you actually get a truck..in most states adding you to title is easy (this is now between you and hubby).  Again..not a hill I would die on...especially since most of "our" vehicles are just in my name...but the important ones my wife is on there.  Somehow it's more that I offer..than the "reality".


Anyway...hope this helps.  Glad you and hubby are able to email about this.

DR is your friend in this...don't be shy to use him.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

Look into your insurance requirements because that can drive what you can and can't do.

If only MIL's name is on the title, the insurance would need to be in her name for her address, at the amount charged for her age.

If the title is in both MIL's and H's name, your insurance can cover it at your address with H as the driver, amount charged for his age.

Believe me, the cost of insurance goes up and up for the elderly drivers. That's why Mom put her car in my name when she moved into our house.

Anyway, the complexity and cost of the insurance coverage can be used by you and your H to tell MIL that the title needs to be in H's name.

The other thing that strikes me is that there is close family history on taking back a car.

Maybe the least said, the better...

H and PJ:  While we appreciate the offer of the truck, having it titled in your name doesn't feel like a gift. We want to avoid any potential situation in which you would want the truck returned to you. (Unspoken...because you've done that before...)

MIL: Oh, it's a gift! I assure you it's a gift! I, the Most Generous Mother Of All Eternity, am giving this to my most Darling Son.

H and PJ:  Great! Then you won't mind the title being in H's name.

Then leave the expectations or arm-twisting that comes later to an incident by incident basis.

[pursuingJoy]

PJ: "Oh that sounds lovely..I wish we had more notice.  MIL worship service this weekend doesn't work for us but we could schedule an exorcism for a 3 weekends from now"

This had me CRYING laughing  

I think I want to add an "and also" to my prior advice.  Regardless of saying yes or no to the truck...this should be a  you and hubby together thing.

However...I would suggest (not a hill I would die on)..that you ask for Title in both your names...quickly give that up for hubby as sole name with NO MIL on title.

Interesting. I talked to counselor about this yesterday and he suggested the same thing. He said my name on the title should be non-negotiable. I wish. Makes sense to use it as a negotiating tool.

I'm very sympathetic to your hubby being on accounts and all that for an aging parent (I'm in the middle of that with Mom).  

For sure. I wouldn't have any issue if aging was the only thing going on here. I get the practicality. Is the enmeshment and her history of no boundaries and sketchy gift-giving that makes all of this tricky.

Anyway, the complexity and cost of the insurance coverage can be used by you and your H to tell MIL that the title needs to be in H's name.

For sure, thanks for this practical suggestion. H mentioned this already so I know it's on his radar.

H and PJ:  While we appreciate the offer of the truck, having it titled in your name doesn't feel like a gift. We want to avoid any potential situation in which you would want the truck returned to you. (Unspoken...because you've done that before...)

MIL: Oh, it's a gift! I assure you it's a gift! I, the Most Generous Mother Of All Eternity, am giving this to my most Darling Son.

H and PJ:  Great! Then you won't mind the title being in H's name.

Most Generous Mother of All Eternity   thank goodness for y'all and your sense of humor I needed to laugh.

I brought up the recent history of car-take-backsies to H, pointing out that sometimes MIL " has the best of intentions and likes to feel needed, but doesn't always think through the consequences and then regrets her decisions." He nodded and agreed with me.

So we have two agreements.

1. MIL told H the reason she wants to keep the truck in her name is so that she "doesn't upset pj." hahahahahahahaha well played, MIL. The counselor said, "She's dangling a gift in front of her darling son and singling you out as the barrier to their happiness."

I'll raise you, MIL. "Oh my goodness that's thoughtful of her to worry about me. My preference is that it's in only in H's name, so that should work out well for everyone." H said ok, he would talk to her and he was sure she wouldn't have an issue with only putting in his name.

I brought up adding my name to the truck and H got very quiet. I suspect that MIL will insist on having her name on the title because if something happened to H, she wouldn't want me getting the truck.

2. H agreed that it would be wise to slow down and give her plenty of time to process the decision. She has a history of deciding something major then changing her mind. He thinks she is going to get sticker shock when she realizes how much a truck costs, and she'll start having second thoughts about it.

Wanna hear something crazy? I brought up BPD with him again and carefully, compassionately explained why I thought his mom has it based on her behaviors. He listened and even agreed with some of what I was sharing. The counselor keeps suggesting to me that H should read, "Surviving the Borderline Mother." I don't know if he's ready for that. Some of what I've read about BPD mothers is pretty scathing.  Examples may not apply, or it will make him uncomfortable. The moment it gets negative, H will say, 'that's not my mom.'

I can't thank you enough for helping me work through this. It gives me confidence...the support goes a long way.

[formflier]

Is there any possibility...any at all, that the three of you have the conversation with MIL.

You should thank her for considering your feelings and state your preference that it be in either both names (don't split the couple) or hubby.

Do NOT make any agreement that it will ONLY be in hubby's name forever (then it's not a gift)...you hubby can share ownership with the ferret after it is in his name...without checking w MIL.

Remember...focus on the dysfunction.  It's not the "gift"..it's the "strings"...don't get sidelined by the gift or any of that.

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

Is there any possibility...any at all, that the three of you have the conversation with MIL.

Possibly. He talks to her every morning on his drive in to work so he's likely already talked to her about this. If he hasn't, we'll see her this Saturday so we could have a joint conversation then.  

I'd much rather have the conversation together. I think it presents a unified front. I'd also like to be there so there's no confusion about what was said. Even if he's already talked to her, I will likely let her know (in front of him) that I appreciate her concern, and reiterate my preference...that way he can't back out.

It's weird. Sometimes I feel these tendrils of guilt, like I'm intruding on their relationship, trying to tell them what to do. Yikes.

Do NOT make any agreement that it will ONLY be in hubby's name forever (then it's not a gift)...you hubby can share ownership with the ferret after it is in his name...without checking w MIL.

Oh lordt. Didn't even think about this.

Remember...focus on the dysfunction.  It's not the "gift"..it's the "strings"...don't get sidelined by the gift or any of that.

Got it, coach. Thanks.

[formflier]

Even if he already has talked to her once...or 20 times, is there a reason you should NOT talk to her in person and present a united front?

Best,

FF

[Methuen]

The counselor keeps suggesting to me that H should read, "Surviving the Borderline Mother." I don't know if he's ready for that. Some of what I've read about BPD mothers is pretty scathing.  Examples may not apply, or it will make him uncomfortable. The moment it gets negative, H will say, 'that's not my mom.'

Agreed PJ.  The title alone is going to be off putting for him. I wonder if he could ever get past the title?  Can I recommend a different title - same subject?  I have read "Loving the Borderline Mother".  Perhaps a better title for your H.
 Honestly, it was the most helpful of all the reading I have done, and I have done a lot.  It educates, it explains, it gives concrete examples and strategies, and I found it a positive and pragmatic read. Perhaps it also comes from a different place philosophically (loving vs surviving).   IMHO, Eggshells is a great starter book, and Loving the Borderline Mother takes it to the next level with more info and more strategies for those who want to go there. It is "headier" than Eggshells.  It came recommended, by my T, and I feel it was a helpful and positive book.  Just an idea.

[pursuingJoy]

Even if he already has talked to her once...or 20 times, is there a reason you should NOT talk to her in person and present a united front?

Best,

FF

No of course nothing stops us, and I think it's important. Just don't know that H really buys into any of this enough to make a difference. Whether we have a conversation with her together or not, she'll dismiss anything that's said as just me talking.

About a year ago, H and I worked on an email that he then sent to his mom. The email stated that we valued financial independence and we wouldn't be accepting gifts or taking out loans. She now says, "I don't want to upset pj by giving you a gift." THE EMAIL WAS FROM HIM TOO. She didn't accept that it was from him at all, only from me. He referred to it last week as 'your email.' I corrected him and said it was 'our email that we worked on together and you sent. If you didn't believe in what it said, you never should have sent it.'

I'm also recalling that he never even copied me when he sent it. He forwarded me his email to her, but he didn't copy me. As long as he can keep us separated he can sustain his separate stories.
 
Counselor kept reminding me to use "we" with him. I'll find a productive way to bring this up to H. This is also something we'll discuss in our next counseling session in a few weeks.

Agreed PJ.  The title alone is going to be off putting for him. I wonder if he could ever get past the title?  Can I recommend a different title - same subject?  I have read "Loving the Borderline Mother".  

Ok thanks M. I don't think this counselor really understands how resistant he is. That's a much better title.  

I tried to find Loving the Borderline Mother and it didn't come up in my search, I only found Understanding the Borderline Mother. Do you know the author?

[Methuen]

My bad (accuracy distorted by too many titles floating around in the grey matter).  Sorry about that.  The title is Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder by Shari Y Manning.  It comes recommended (with a forward) by Marsha Linehan.  I'm guessing most people know who Marsha Linehan is, but Shari Manning is a clinician in private practice (PhD) and former president of the organization founded by Linehan to provide training in DBT.  Manning focuses on treatment of people with BPD.  The book was both a window into the condition, and a positive focus on strategies for the loved ones.  Somewhat heavier reading than Eggshells, but immeasurably more helpful, in my opinion (also balanced and positive).

[formflier]

Whether we have a conversation with her together or not, she'll dismiss anything that's said as just me talking.

 She now says, "I don't want to upset pj by giving you a gift." THE EMAIL WAS FROM HIM TOO.

This is the "unfair meter" in you talking.  Saying and doing all these things is NOT about how she will take it, what she will believe or who she will plot against.  It is about communicating and enforcing your boundaries.

Would your actions be any different if she started saying "PJ colored her hair purple and turned the ferret into a newt."?

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

It is about communicating and enforcing your boundaries.

Yes, agree. I was having an epiphany about all of this as I was writing, hence the all caps. My only focus is to communicate as clearly as is within my power, which in this case will be together. Even if we communicate with 100% clarity, she will likely dismiss it and hear whatever she wants anyway. That's not on me. I'll simply enforce what H and I have agreed.

Thanks M - found and ordered the book! That title will do so much better.

H's daughter's upcoming wedding will bring up all sorts of things with and for MIL. This is a good time to prepare.

[formflier]

  I'll simply enforce what H and I have agreed.

With your MIL..it really is that simple, not much nuance there.  With hubby, more nuance..more long term view.  He has demonstrated the ability to change, especially with healthy encouragement.  Very easy to conflate those two relationships...be vigilant about keeping them separate.

Thanks M - found and ordered the book! That title will do so much better.

 I haven't read this one yet.  Would love to hear more about it, especially from those that have read SWOE.

H's daughter's upcoming wedding will bring up all sorts of things with and for MIL. This is a good time to prepare.

I would set  a finite amount of time to prepare.  Be deliberate about preparing AND ALSO be deliberate about stopping giving it any brainspace whatsoever...after the allotted time is up.

So...sit down with favorite drink, focus on if MIL does X, I will Y (and Y= ignore it is possible)
after 15 minutes put it away until your next scheduled time.


Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

Quick update. I expected to see MIL and talk to her together with H this past Saturday for a family reunion, but it was canceled after several cousins were diagnosed with Covid.

H talked to her on the phone. Supposedly before he could say anything about the title, she said, "I want your name to be on the title. I don't want my name on it." He said, "Great, because that was what we were going to ask." They agreed on a pretty reasonable dollar amount, too.

Best case scenario so far, assuming all stay in their lanes. She has a way of backing out of things like this, but H and I are so far together. He feels very supported by me and is happy I'm excited for him. If things go south it'll be because she switches the game.

They hadn't talk at all about the title, so the skeptical part of me wonders if she was hoping that insisting the truck be in his name would discourage him/split us.

[formflier]

  They agreed on a pretty reasonable dollar amount, too.

What does this mean?  Is your hubby contributing a certain amount to this "gift"?

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

It is looking likely as the amount she's offered wouldn't cover what he's looking for. He'd be paying roughly 10% of it. We've agreed on what we can afford to put towards it, especially considering he has a wedding to pay for. It puts a little bit of the power back in our court, I think.

[formflier]

OK..so she is not really giving your husband a truck.  She is giving him money for him to buy the truck he really wants.

Hmmm

Have to think about this for a bit.

Best,

FF