Therapist Advise

[MsCamper]

I had my regular meeting with my therapist this week and, in short, they said run.

I have spent the past couple sessions explaining my living situation versus my original expectations. I am a newly wed who has recently found out my husband has BPD. Upon our "I do's" things nose dived really quickly. Additionally, since his diagnosis he has declined counseling and will not pick up the prescriptions that were, in my opinion, written to help him.

I have not been in independent therapy too long. I moved to individual recently but we had been in couples therapy for some time before my husband withdrew.

Has anyone else experienced this as a normal set of advise so quickly? Hearing someone else say get out so quickly took me by surprise.

Thank you

[Cat Familiar]

So her advice took you by surprise. Now that you’ve thought it over, how do you feel about it?

[Guts42]

10ish years into a marriage with someone with traits and all I can say is that in my experience it gets worse after the "I do's."
My wife had a huge fit right after our vows- as in she threw a fit in the car on the way from the chapel to the restaurant.  To this day I don't understand what it was about but looking back I should've gotten in a cab and fled.

Now, to be fair I'm in the thick of planning an escape for me and children so I'm a bit biased.

To your original question, my therapist also suggested very early on in our sessions (about 8 months ago) that there wasn't much hope but my situation is a bit more complicated as my wife is uBPD and we have young children.  She never explicitly said "runaway" but in a recent session she said with a sigh of relief "it sounds like you've finally accepted that you aren't the issue."

Does your therapist's advice resonate with you?  Did you have an immediate reaction?

[ForeverDad]

We have a phrase here... BPD F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

I'll focus on the middle word, Obligation.  Once you were married your spouse probably viewed you as in an Obligated relationship.  So he stopped being on his best behavior and he lapsed into 'private life' where he felt he could drop pretenses, and let go of watching his words and actions.  Does that sound about right?

My story, I also had an experience soon after my marriage.  Even before we left for our honeymoon she claimed I'd broken her back.  She only stopped me when I was getting a phone to call for a doctor.  Who does that literally in the first days of marriage?  While I didn't see BPD signs consistently or frequently, it did become more and more evident over the years.  And it got much worse a decade later after we had a child.  (That when clueless me discovered having a child does not fix a troubled marriage, instead it made everything so much more complicated.)

As much as you might feel Guilty about ending the relationship so soon, you also have to be pragmatic.  If he is unwilling to change and improve his behaviors, do you want to — borrowing Guts42's life experience or mine as a handy example — be married 10 years, have a couple kids, then find out about BPD and decide the suffering has to end?

By the way, until you're sure which path your life will take regarding this marriage, please be the one in charge of birth control.  Otherwise he may claim "oops I forgot" and with a child in the mix then undoing the marriage would be immensely more complicated.

[Guts42]

By the way, until you're sure which path your life will take regarding this marriage, please be the one in charge of birth control.  Otherwise he may claim "oops I forgot" and with a child in the mix then undoing the marriage would be immensely more complicated.

I cannot stress enough how on point ForeverDad here is on this.

[MsCamper]

All: Thank you for your reply.

I mirror ForeverDad as my honeymoon went great, in my opinion, but I had told him not to worry with spending as I had saved extra money for things. This apparently was an incorrect statement to share and it meant that he regretted the whole trip.

In my session, my T and I discussed an escape plan. My husband is refusing counseling and will not take the medications prescribed. His experience is that things will not progress in a positive way if my husband is not going to take any steps towards resolving his feelings and is stating any of my needs are "whiny" or "selfish". Anytime we speak of my needs or the feelings my kids or even his kids express result in him getting angry and telling us we are all wrong. That my kids (mostly my youngest that is 10) needs to change his behavior to build a bond with him versus my husband taking an action to make him feel less alienated.

Over the past weeks my husband has been coming home later and later. Yesterday he stated it was due to work and traffic. A co-worker saw him and mentioned it to me so I jokingly stated that his truck set up must be getting popular as someone thought they were following him yesterday evening. He stated that he did in fact go out after work and began to get frazzled that I was questioning him going to see friends. This was by text so I shared "I am not conerned you went to visit friends. If I may ask, I think it's courteous to say things like "hey, I am going to go... so i will be home a bit later" for the future. " He agreed at first and then stated he did not saying he did not "want to start down having to tell me everywhere he goes". I replied back with "I can see where you think you are coming home at normal time but for me it has been later and later. I do not know when he will be getting home and so I do not know how to plan my evenings. I am not asking for indepth details. Just a heads up as a courtesy". His next reply was "Don't start. I told you I was heading home and came home." What he does not understand is that in the morning he bit my head off when I said see you tonight stating he gets home in the afternoon and I know that. (He use to get home at 4p but more recently it is 6-7p) Yesterday he apparently did get off work at 4 but did not say he was coming home until 5:30 and did not arrive until 6.

I am extremely frustrated that I cannot share a need or expectation I would have in my marital partner without having every single one of them shot down. I do not expect every single one to be met and would assume some would even fall into middle ground territory but everything is shut down. Can you help me with chores? No. Instead I work a full time job and he watches me do them without helping. His reply is always well if you started it then why would I beg to help. Beg? You ain't gotta beg. Our mortgage is due on the 1st, can you put in your half? No. I will be tight on cash if I do. Really? Me too! I pay all our bills and you just give me some money when you feel like it. No schedule, no dollar amount. I need to get groceries and am tight on cash, can you chip in this week? Gosh, if your kids would eat more generic food or less at dinner then it would not cost as much. Days later, hey I am still needing help with grocery money. FINE! I will give you YOUR MONEY. He says he has no desire to talk to me or touch me BUT I do not try hard enough to make him feel like I want him. Can we go visit one of my friends? WHY, no! This person is THIS or THAT and I refuse to do anything with them. And now, the well I am going to do what I want, when I want, with whom I want and you need to sit back and be okay with it. (note, he has cheated before) All in all, I feel like I have a needy roommate and not a husband. It is truly taking me everything I have not to be like a Lifetime Movie and throw all his stuff on the front yard right now.

Please note: That while I am super upset I have not replied back to his last text. I have zero desire to fight. I am tired of fighting to be heard and it failing anyway.

[Skip]

Has anyone else experienced this as a normal set of advise so quickly? Hearing someone else say get out so quickly took me by surprise.

In general, and early in treatment, a MFT or psychologist is not going to urge a client to "run" or develop an escape plan ahead of their client reaching that conclusion themselves.

Two reasons.

1) Risk of injury. Clients need to be fully committed to leaving if they are going to leave because the most dangerous times in relationships are when one partner runs.  The commitment is important so that the running partner does make enough practical plans, or have the mental strength or desire to see leaving through. 2) Financial ruin. Divorces are financially damaging. Escaping a person is usually even more financially damaging. This is not a decision to be made lightly and its important to build a support network first and have legal guidance for financial protection.

I can't second guess a MFT or PhD. They have information and they have training we don't have here. My question would be, do we (you / us) fully understand it?

Many members here are referred by therapists and work here at the same time. To be most helpful, we need to understand the where the therapist is going. Can you tell us more about what was said? What facts was he most reactive two. What are his specific recommendations with relationship to leaving - timing, lawyers, etc.

[MsCamper]

Many members here are referred by therapists and work here at the same time. To be most helpful, we need to understand the where the therapist is going. Can you tell us more about what was said? What facts was he most reactive two. What are his specific recommendations with relationship to leaving - timing, lawyers, etc.

Can I tell more about what was said? What he reacted to?

At this stage I have been married for four months. I have a partner who has cheated on me, siting the blame on me for that relationship, and who provides me no physical, financial or spiritual support. I have been married for four months to a man who cannot bring himself to kiss me most days because I did something he did not approve of. (I smoked after he ripped me a new one and called me a list of names) After his diagnosis things have continued to go down hill to the point I am at now.  Our first conversation was him expressing that he understood that things in his mind did not register in the same manner that others would. That he knew he needed help and the medication in order to get better. The next morning everything went backwards. He refuses to take ownership for anything, still blaming me for everything, and refuses to seek treatment.
I think a big concern was that the anger has grown to more than just me. We were walking in a parking lot and a car started to back up. I stopped, about two cars away, and he proceeded to walk, smack the car with his hand and then start calling the driver names.

I will say, no, I do not fully understand what he is going through. Regardless after today I am aware that I have my own personal needs and expectations. I did not walk into this expecting rainbows and kittens, but I did not walk into a marriage expecting to be yelled at and made to feel my personal worst each day. I have tried for months, prior to the diagnosis, to look for a middle ground or change myself to meet his needs. I have not received the same in return and, now, am realizing that he has made the decision not to make any attempts to try. I have mourned the relationship that I realized I lost but I think I realized that the person that was left behind is not someone I am strong enough to harm myself and my children (mentally & emotionally) in order to support. I feel like a failure for not seeing this sooner, or having to walk away from my marriage but I is an emotion that is easier to face than the darkness that comes from staying.

[GaGrl]

You might want to consult a lawyer regarding the possibility of an annulment. A hour-long marriage in which one partner has a mental disorder diagnosis, refused to take prescribed medication or participate in recommended therapy, and refuses to contribute financially to the marriage could qualify as grounds for an annulment in such a short timeframe.

[Skip]

   I was really asking what were the therapists thoughts.

Putting that aside for now, if you are saying to the therapist that:

• your husband has cheated,
• you feel isolated
• he is not sharing expenses
• you went to couples therapy and he quit
• you have grieved the relationship.

... then it is not the therapist telling you to run, you are telling him you want to run.

What was the bottom line from couples therapy... did you two find any common ground to build on... or was it a bust.

Does he want to continue, or is he ready to end it, too.

What was the affair all about? How long did that go on?

Skip

[ForeverDad]

You are only a few months into your marriage and while you both have children, you don't have any children together, yet.  And spouse is denying/refusing meds (which may moderate some behaviors but is not a fix) and therapy.  And there was infidelity.  These factors so soon after marriage, combined, are probably why your therapist did not hold out hope for the marriage.

Whose house are you in, his or yours?  If it's yours then don't add his name to the deed, or conversely, if his then don't add your name to his mortgage.  Until you know which way your path is leading, you don't want to add or merge marital obligations such as debts, ownership, cards, etc.

[MsCamper]

Skip - Sorry for my just throwing it all out there. I am in a bad state at the moment which I am certain can be easily seen.

 then it is not the therapist telling you to run, you are telling him you want to run. - Yes, I do believe I am there.

What was the bottom line from couples therapy... did you too find any common ground to build on... or was it a bust. - We were given tools to use. I would try but my husband would decline to do so. Later he would get mad at me for trying to use the tools. We were told to find middle ground. My husband stated he was not willing to do so. It could just be my way and would shut down. When I tried to find middle ground or the attempt I suggested, then my husband would get mad that it was always my way. When I would try his way they I was only doing it to make him happy and not to bother. We would have discussions on communication styles and how to better them but anything quickly fizzled outside of counseling. In counseling was the only time my husband would apologize for the name calling or cold shoulders or anything but afterwards would quickly let me know he did not mean it. I thought maybe we had a few good moments where one or the other of us really heard something and would try to change. For the past month any attempts he had made he has advised he is reverting back to how he was before. This happened after he cancelled our last session so I had hoped that after his diagnosis having a talk with our therapist might help us both. Me on how to support him in this and him on how to be nice. Yup, I was willing to settle with him just being nice to me for a bit. Would have seen that as a huge step.
I will say, on a positive note, that while the sessions may not have a positive result for my marriage I was able to take away things for myself.

Does he want to continue, or is he ready to end it, too. A month ago it was he wanted to stay, he would take the meds, seek help and try to understand better. We even discussed that try to understand better may mean that he might still explode in the beginning. We talked about how when that happens coming back to say I am sorry or I did not mean to would be important until we could stop the explosions. He exploded the next day and has not come down from it. I am unable to have conversations this in depth with him right now without it turning into a trigger.
He ignores me for the most part right now but he bought us a new tennis net yesterday. I honestly do not know what he wants.

What was the affair all about? How long did that go on?
He stated I was not paying him enough attention so he had met a woman at a bar. It went on for three months. He had a sick child, hospital sick, and ended up using her illness as the reason to sneak around. "My daughter is sick so I need some time" and would go to the other woman. He explained that he needed the added attention that this woman gave but that there was no feelings. That one of her positive traits was she would sleep with him no matter how much he ignored her or was mean to her.
I did ask what not enough attention meant. He explained I did not text him enough when I was at work. I did not use enough   emojis in my text messages. When I was with my kids then I was ignoring him. (Please note that he had only just met my kids at this stage so not every night did we do something together). I did not call him the moment I got off work and want to talk on the phone all night (again, this was when I had my kids) I did things with my friends and not him.


Whose house are you in, his or yours?  If it's yours then don't add his name to the deed, or conversely, if his then don't add your name to his mortgage.  Until you know which way your path is leading, you don't want to add or merge marital obligations such as debts, ownership, cards, etc. - The home is mine and we have no expenses for which we share...car, RV, utility, nothing.