does it end?

[leopard]

Hi I am new here. I am stressed, worn down, sore from all the hurt thrown at me weekly/daily depending on her mood. Is parent abuse a thing?
My firstborn got diagnosed with eupd/bpd 5years ago. She is now 25 and a mum of 2 gorgeous babies who are 2yrs and 6month old. She has been in a consistent form of therapy for 3years which started with perinatal help. She was showing recognisable 'unstable' symptoms from about 12yrs old so I got her into CAMHS. It didn't last long, they believed every ridiculous story she told them so I pulled her from it as it was seeming to fuel the extreme behaviour. She calmed down for a while during her exams but she began to struggle more in her late teens with boyfriends, drugs, etc, but she had left home & refused to return. This is when she started to pursue her own medical help.
I thought it was bad before she had the children, its 10 times worse now.
The checkins can turn to 2/3 hour phone calls about how I am a s**t mum/grandparent are almost daily  depending on if she is occupied with her pals or the deadbeat dad she had kids with. The daily visits home where I am expected to just look after the children and feed her as she is tired and needs a break again will happen if she doest have a better offer of activities to do that day. The door slamming or throwing me out when I am over her home, quite often to help with chores, gardening and decorating which I end up doing it all while she watches the kids from the couch with mobile in hand, because I didnt agree to stay there while she pops out for a few hours. The threats of self harm/suicide or abandonment of the children when I don't do as she demands leaves me in a constant cycle of fear and obligation and resentment.
The guilt slinging, the blaming, the comparisons, the twisting of truth, the manipulation of history, the false info from other people and changing of goal post to elicit the response she desires are exhausting. The resistance to help, advice and medication & the presenting of a different story to her therapist is not helpful to her healing, although at her request he is looking at adding ADHD to her diagnosis along with Food Avoidance Disorder. I hate to say it is almost as if she is trying to collect badges of honour.
When I speak to my closest support about the latest outburst or incidents they ask "how on earth do you deal with it"?...I don't know if I am dealing with it. It's almost the 'norm' for us. But I don't see my friends anymore, we can't make plans to do anything as she will typically call me to come back from wherever I am to help what ever drama is unfolding, I rarely leave the house, I am self employed and can't return to work as she will screw that up as well... I'm at the point that I question does it ever get better?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Gosh Leopard, I can hear the exhaustion, sadness, and 'trapped' feeling that I recognise very well.

The thing I identify with most is that not being able to plan anything. Your whole world closes in around the needs of the daughter, and when you love your grandchildren and know what their situation is, it is like being held to ransom.

Does it end?

Reading here doesn't exactly fill one with hope that it does end, but I think it can change. One thing that does make a difference is if you know the children are being cared for ie at school, but I am wondering if there is a chance the younger one could go to a preschool or something once a week? If that is possible then you could seize that time just for you- lock it in to something that you can't not do.

I am 71 and live with BPD dd and her 11 year old daughter. DD came back home last year after many years on ice and coming and going. 11 year old has mostly been here week on week off with her dad.

But 11 year old has now decided not to go back to her dad's - for good reasons, but the whole situation has changed for me.

I teach 3 days a week and to be honest I am very tired now and would like to retire. But then I think - I need the extra $$ and - more importantly - what would it be like if I was available 24/7

You mention that you are self employed. Does that mean you have some boundaries around work that are respected?

Looking back the only way I have kept going is by trying to change one thing at a time - just a small thing to help take some control of my life.

Keep in touch. Perhaps the most helpful thing for me was coming here, knowing there are others dealing with the same extraordinary life that is living with a loved on with BPD.

[Sancho]

Just reread your post and see that the children are very young. Would she let you look after them at your place while she rested etc?

I have to say I found it so much easier to just look after the child while DD was out and about. The only complication is that if the children get attached to you then that really sets dd off!

Like walking a tightrope!

[Rev]

Hi I am new here. I am stressed, worn down, sore from all the hurt thrown at me weekly/daily depending on her mood. Is parent abuse a thing?
My firstborn got diagnosed with eupd/bpd 5years ago. She is now 25 and a mum of 2 gorgeous babies who are 2yrs and 6month old. She has been in a consistent form of therapy for 3years which started with perinatal help. She was showing recognisable 'unstable' symptoms from about 12yrs old so I got her into CAMHS. It didn't last long, they believed every ridiculous story she told them so I pulled her from it as it was seeming to fuel the extreme behaviour. She calmed down for a while during her exams but she began to struggle more in her late teens with boyfriends, drugs, etc, but she had left home & refused to return. This is when she started to pursue her own medical help.
I thought it was bad before she had the children, its 10 times worse now.
The checkins can turn to 2/3 hour phone calls about how I am a s**t mum/grandparent are almost daily  depending on if she is occupied with her pals or the deadbeat dad she had kids with. The daily visits home where I am expected to just look after the children and feed her as she is tired and needs a break again will happen if she doest have a better offer of activities to do that day. The door slamming or throwing me out when I am over her home, quite often to help with chores, gardening and decorating which I end up doing it all while she watches the kids from the couch with mobile in hand, because I didnt agree to stay there while she pops out for a few hours. The threats of self harm/suicide or abandonment of the children when I don't do as she demands leaves me in a constant cycle of fear and obligation and resentment.
The guilt slinging, the blaming, the comparisons, the twisting of truth, the manipulation of history, the false info from other people and changing of goal post to elicit the response she desires are exhausting. The resistance to help, advice and medication & the presenting of a different story to her therapist is not helpful to her healing, although at her request he is looking at adding ADHD to her diagnosis along with Food Avoidance Disorder. I hate to say it is almost as if she is trying to collect badges of honour.
When I speak to my closest support about the latest outburst or incidents they ask "how on earth do you deal with it"?...I don't know if I am dealing with it. It's almost the 'norm' for us. But I don't see my friends anymore, we can't make plans to do anything as she will typically call me to come back from wherever I am to help what ever drama is unfolding, I rarely leave the house, I am self employed and can't return to work as she will screw that up as well... I'm at the point that I question does it ever get better?

Hi Leopard,

I was going to post my own topic today and then I came across this.

This morning, having just had to draw yet another boundary, I am bracing for the next twenty years.  What you describe here is awfully similar to what I experience from my twenty five year old daughter - minus the grand-children.  The other difference is that I am no longer with her mother. This weekend as I drew one last boundary with my daughter and as a courtesy, I let her mother (my ex) know what was going down. It was a reminder why we split 12 years ago.  But I digress ...

I too wonder if it get's any better. One thing is for sure, that without sustained treatment, it will likely get worse. I am astounded at how fast my daughter has spiraled down - and I think that's what causes all the extra diagnoses to emerge.

So, I'm not sure about you, but I am really looking to learn how to put my armour on and learn what it means to love a child that you don't trust, who does in fact abuse that love, and whose values you don't respect.

Heartbreaking.

Hang in there. It's what I tell myself all the time.

Rev

[leopard]

Thank you so much for replying Sancho & Rev...
I came and posted, dumped a small fraction of my situation in here & then spent a whole lot of time reading other peoples stories, struggles and advice. In a twisted way it gave me some comfort to know that I am not alone, that there are people living with these battles & that I am right and wrong about so many things with BPD and that there is still a lot to learn. But most of all I found comfort in the fact that I have the right to protect myself. This breaks my heart at the same time to know that beyond this time of growth for me, that there maybe/is likely a world where I don't have a relationship with my girl or my grandbabies, because she may not continue therapy or get better at managing herself and will continue to hate & try to punish me for her suffering BPD.

At the moment we are in a lull; Firstly because we all are isolating due to a positive covid test in the household (thankfully no one is very poorly). Secondly she is relatively level at present and therefore I am not in receipt of any attacks but that could all change, as I'm sure you are aware, at the turn of a coin, a misplaced/misused word, an event outside my control or her extended family (fathers side) stirring the pot. But what I have noticed that while she may not be suffering her BPD right now the aftermath for me is immense and is now taking its toll-I used to bounce back quickly, naively thinking it will get better, but I don't bounce any more. I acknowledged 2 months ago this fact and have been trying to get help not for her but for myself, that I was becoming mentally unwell. Having the damage control/cleanup from her in our blended family falls on me, this puts struggle on our finances & my relationship especially with my partner (her step dad since she was 9). My 21yr old son still lives at home, he generally stay out of the way and doesn't get involved with his half sister, which is sad as I appreciate the special sibling bond I have with my sister. They also have different fathers and this is what shows me I am not solely to blame for her BPD.

Sancho: you said "its like being held to ransom" and I couldn't have put it better! This is it. I get the mornings sometimes if they are not taken up with phone calls about the latest drama that may or may not be my fault. Little one goes to preschool every morning-she loves it! But daughter will often be late for pick up; she's at her friends house far away, the beauty shop or supermarket or she is just too stressed to go out so can't talk to outsiders. So because I'm close by I go get my granddaughter, then I get "well if you have her you can have the baby too". This will cause an outburst if I can't get the kids off her if I have "things to do" because it is not a "paid job". My previous job was a split shift so I generally was working when she was sleeping in the morning and working evenings when the little ones were in bed so it didnt affect life so much. Its like I'm an on call now 24/7. I have been working on just saying no lately so I can do things myself like sorting our finances and invoicing and bookkeeping for my partner, cleaning/mending the house, grocery shopping, etc...its not received well. "What kind of grandmother are you", "why dont you want to spend time with your grandkids", "you're so selfish". "if you dont take the kids I'm going to do X,Y or Z" threats...I could go on & on. I suffer migraines a lot more now than previous years and dont know if this is my age (45) or from the constant stress, so if I get wiped out by one everything is pushed back a day and I'm always on catch up for my own chores/life stuff. I should add, this is the only time she will graciously leave me alone to recover...do I start faking them just to get a bit of peace? My god the thought of getting busted for that crime against her just gave me shivers...

Rev: I shall indeed try to put some armour on and stick to boundaries I set. I have learnt here about SET, BIFF, DEAR MAN, etc, so hope to start using these next time, because there will be a next time unfortunately. I hope you too benefit from being on here with the lovely people giving strength and comfort and all the wise advice.

[Rev]

Rev: I shall indeed try to put some armour on and stick to boundaries I set. I have learnt here about SET, BIFF, DEAR MAN, etc, so hope to start using these next time, because there will be a next time unfortunately. I hope you too benefit from being on here with the lovely people giving strength and comfort and all the wise advice.

Thanks for this - and yes I love it here. I popped over to this board from the break-up board. My daughter was recently diagnosed as having bio-polar condition - refuses to follow treatment. It has been a long, long three years.

This place is an oasis of sanity.

Rev

[Snowflake90]

First of all, I'm sorry for what you're going through. It's pretty sad.
I have limited experience with BPD in a mother/daughter relationship. Although this whole dynamic you mention seems awfully similar to the one between my ex wife and her mother. She would accuse her mother of being a horrible grandmother, use and abuse her, devalue, etc etc. Pretty much everything you say. And my ex-mother-in-law had poor boundaries. She'd pretty much lower her head and keep doing my exwife favours, despite being treated like cr@p.
Unfortunately, however painful this is, I think you ought to be stricter. If she harasses you, you just don't go and do her a favour the very next day. No need to talk back, IMHO, but you have every right to demand proper treatment and refuse helping her out until she apologizes.
About the manipulation, unfortunately I've seen it not only in BPD but other disorders too and the abuser knows the abused "weak spots". Of course you can't be absolutely sure, but the self harm/suicide may well be purely manipulative. Does she have a psychiatrist and therapist?

[leopard]

sorry its been a while.

She would accuse her mother of being a horrible grandmother, use and abuse her, devalue, etc etc. Pretty much everything you say. And my ex-mother-in-law had poor boundaries. She'd pretty much lower her head and keep doing my exwife favours, despite being treated like cr@p.

yes this was me too... to save others from the drama & to have "a quiet life" as the fear of saying no and the repercussions were too much to bare.

But I have been more consistent in saying no. I accept the fear will come but look to the fact that I have the right to live my life and enjoy what I do or don't do with my time. I still struggle with justifying my every move so she can understand where I am coming from...

The most recent outburst came after I had visited every day this week (changing my plans as per usual and letting down my elderly in-laws to help them with some tasks) to help her (I should rephrase do it for her) with the housework and kids as she was tired and the kids had been poorly. She told me how she'd been offered some mornings work at a local shop & asked me to sit the kids on a regular basis so she could get some cash in hand. I said I wouldn't commit to that as I didn't want to let her down when I went back to work myself, plus I am not in a great place mentally to cope with anymore commitments. The rant she went on was long...
"Wow, you're a selfish b**ch...You don't have a job, so there is no reason you can't watch the kids...You must love trying to hurt me and the kids... Does it make you feel good to know that I have to consider selling my body to make ends meet & so I can get the kids the stuff they need... You are gonna have to give me more money every month then otherwise we wont eat...its a joke and a pi** take that you wont help me. You're my mum, their nan, you are supposed to help me...everyone else thinks its wrong and a bit weird that you don't help me, etc, etc, etc".

I replied with "I love you and I do help you quite a lot already but I am not responsible for you anymore as a grown woman and I need to remind you that we don't let the kids don't go without anything they actually need...I also considered selling myself when I was a young single mother as I didn't have a supporting network like you have, so I can understand those feelings...You can be as pi**ed off with me as you like. But I do not take anything from you, cost you anything or destroy/break anything of yours or hurt you physically so you might want to rethink that...You can think my reasons/excuses are invalid, but they are my reasons & it's my choice on how I spend any of my time or my money...I'm not affected by what anyone else thinks, I can only deal with and work with the skills, provisions, finances, mental capacity, feelings that I possess myself and the quoting of other peoples opinions of me have never worked to change your desired outcome...Your sense of entitlement to me & my resources is what is upsetting you as it doesn't fit with what I can or will actually give you."

She countered with "You are my mum and responsible for me until I die, how can you stand there and say no...fine, I'll stop therapy then and work that day when you normally have the kids as therapy is a load of sh*t anyway and doesnt work and is a waste of time".
To which I responded that I am not responsible for anything she does or doesnt do. A court of law wouldn't bring me in to sort her out, the police wouldn't have to ask my permission for anything to do with her, social services wouldn't require my consent or involve me if she needed their help, doctors wouldn't give me information without her permission, etc, as she was an ADULT responsible for herself and that she is responsible for her own children. I told her it wasn't a good idea to give up therapy as even though she may feel that the one to one and group sessions may not make her feel wonderful everyday, they have a use and are helpful long term 7 that she is better when she is in therapy as to opposed to not being in therapy . Her being under the care of these health professionals gave her quicker access to other support for her eating disorder & potential ADAH diagnosis with a more palatable medication, that she would still be sat on a waiting list for until end 2022.

In a surprising turn of events she stopped pushing and calmed down this occasion and we continued to have a calm lunch, before she went off to spend the last £40 I had in my purse for her tattoo appointment, while I watched the kids and gave them their dinner...(face palm moment as I just read what I wrote)...I guess you have gotta pick your battles sometimes