Can someone interpret this through the BPD lens?

[Dad50]

So, thanks for those who have been helping me and following.

My exwBPD and I still both go to the same gym. Part of it is that you develop an affinity for the trainers who help you, and get accustomed to that relationship. I suppose it would be like breaking up with a long time hairdresser. I suppose that is part of it, but probably just an excuse. I have said repeatedly that I am willing to find a different gym and trainers. My exwBPD says she just appreciates having a good workout partner.

Well, she said she finally convinced her new boyfriend to exercise with her at the gym. Cool, let me know when he is starting and I will find a new gym. No, she says, don't switch gyms.

Now, this is bizarre because she hasn't even told her new boyfriend she was in a five year relationship. As far as he is concerned, she has been single for a long long time. She even told me once that she and her boyfriend were watching a movie and a character with my name came up, a very unique name, and she told her boyfriend she'd never met anyone with that name before.  Everyone at the gym has seen my ex and me together for a long time. most of them still think we are a couple. Under this scenario, why wouldn't she want me to switch gyms? I certainly don't want to be there when she is coming with him.

[grumpydonut]

Hey Dad50,

Someone will certainly come and answer this for you.

What I'll ask you is "what do you think knowing this will achieve?".

The reason I ask, is that there will always be something new you realise you don't understand about your BPD ex. Most of what they do post relationship is irrational and the complete opposite of what someone normal would do.

I spent a year doing this. It didn't help one little bit. I'd caution you going down the same path and wasting as long as I wasted.

The best answer: because she's irrational, emotionally driven and doesn't think things through.

The answer is definitely NOT because she's a calculating beast who is always two steps ahead. BPDs are impulsive, and being impulsive makes them prone to being caught in their lies.

[Dad50]

Hey Dad50,

Someone will certainly come and answer this for you.

What I'll ask you is "what do you think knowing this will achieve?".

The reason I ask, is that there will always be something new you realise you don't understand about your BPD ex. Most of what they do post relationship is irrational and the complete opposite of what someone normal would do.

I spent a year doing this. It didn't help one little bit. I'd caution you going down the same path and wasting as long as I wasted.

The best answer: because she's irrational, emotionally driven and doesn't think things through.

The answer is definitely NOT because she's a calculating beast who is always two steps ahead. BPDs are impulsive, and being impulsive makes them prone to being caught in their lies.

That makes a lot of sense.  There is no upside, and you'd think a rational person would be just like, yeah, switch gyms so my boyfriend and I can come together.   

[SinisterComplex]

Short and simple D...quit trying to understand the irrational and inexplicable. That is a fool's errand. Switch gyms. Be more decisive. Do it for you. You are never going to figure out why she thinks the way she does or why she says what she does or why she feels the way she does. Why? She is disordered. It is not your responsibility to figure that out. Worry about you and do you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[grumpydonut]

I'll share a personal anecdote that may illustrate how irrational they can be once they devalue you - or are dysregulated by you.

My diagnosed ex with BPD wanted time away from me to "fix" herself. Little did I know she was using this time to sleep with someone she had previously cheated on me with. She said she wanted to work on herself and that she'd be back. I'd tell her I need to move on, and she'd freak out and ask me why I couldn't just wait. Yet, she was, again, sleeping with my replacement. So she didn't want me, but she didn't want me leaving either.

Anyway, despite this, she admitted she had been creating fake Tinder accounts to see if I was on them. When I asked her why she'd be doing this when she was the reason we weren't currently together, and could simply return to me, she said "I don't know. I guess I just missed you". I said "do you want to get back together?". She said "it's not that simple"...

So, to recap. She chose to leave. She chose to sleep with someone else. At the same time, she was acting as if I was the one preventing us from being together, or as if there was some spiritual force between us, and cyber stalking me even though I never said she couldn't simply message or call me.

Even after she finally discarded me for the replacement, she was still stalking my FB stories...

Does any of that make sense? Will I ever understand that? No and no. Did I waste a lot of time trying? Yes!

[Turkish]

Switch gyms if you feel uncomfortable. Don't tell her or why. You're validating her, in a way, by communicating with her thusly.

[Sappho11]

What everyone else said. Poppy made an excellent book recommendation recently called "Stop caretaking the Borderline". It's a brilliant book which could really make a difference to your life. It practically tells you the path out of your current unhappiness, step by step.

One of the things mentioned is building up the resilience to do certain things because you want them. You want to switch gyms? Do it. Don't tell your ex. It's your prerogative to choose where you want to work out, not hers. Furthermore, if you don't tell her, it's likely she won't even notice, and even if she does, just don't react. She might rage for a week or two, after which she'll be used to the idea and never bring it up again.

Stop worrying about what she thinks. Do things for you. Switching gyms is an excellent place to start.

[babyducks]

It was ordinary for me to come home and find my partner with the radio on, the TV on, the stereo playing a CD, and her working on the computer.

I would turn off the radio, the TV and the stereo because I couldn't stand the noise level.

what do you think would happen?    my partner would get upset.    where I experienced the silence as peace and quiet,   she experienced the quiet as empty and void and hated it.

so why am I telling you that Dad50?

Our friend SinisterComplex said this:

You are never going to figure out why she thinks the way she does or why she says what she does or why she feels the way she does. Why? She is disordered.

pwBPD behave and react along some very predictable patterns.    it may not be logical.    it may not be self evident but there are deeply ingrained patterns, that is why so many of our stories sound eerily similar.    the details may change a little but as I Am Redeemed said in your other thread:

This is not productive, it will never be productive, and if you choose to continue trying to get past her deeply ingrained psychological patterns of interpreting data from her social environment, you will get nothing but frustration and upset.

so what is going on with these deeply ingrained psychological patterns ?

this is from the LESSONS board:

For a person with the disorder, understand the reasoning behind the actions. The pwBPD is not reacting to the situation at hand - to what's happening then and there and now - but to either something that had happened in the past, or to a kind of ready-reference list of beliefs about the world, which was usually learned in childhood.

and what does this have to do with the radio, the television and the stereo all being on?    my partner had a ready reference list,   a deeply ingrained psychological pattern that quiet was not good.    quiet equaled empty and void.    she was not reacting to the situation at hand but experiences she had from the past where noise - high levels of noise - many voices shouting was "normal"   and she recreated it over and over.   without conscious thought.

my partner may have had a thing for noise levels.    I would suggest your partner has a thing for conflict.   conflict is normal to her.    conflict is ordinary and expected.   its what she learned, probably in childhood.     people where either always fighting around her, or at her and she duplicates the past reality in the present.

pwBPD behave and react along some very predictable patterns that usually recreate something they experienced in the past.

here is the very important thing though  its not just pwBPD that recreate past experiences.    ALL people ... us included... recreate past experiences.    there is even one school of psychology that suggest we recreate these past experiences in order to fix them.    that's interesting isn't it.

Dad50 ... I've noticed you've been asked several times... what are you getting out of this?    what keeps you going back and going through this same very recognizable pattern over and over again.  Does this remind you of anything in your past?    I've not seen your reply, maybe I have missed it but these are not rhetorical questions.    they are the doors to your next stage of healing.   I would encourage you to take a swing at answering them.

you said this in your other thread:

Then the part of me kicks in that has empathy for her. How sad she must be inside that she needs to do all of this. I can't be mad at her when she is just reacting out of subconscious, self preservation. then I go down that rabbit hole.

its fine to have empathy.   its fine to be angry.    its fine to have any emotion.    what is important is to understand where that emotion is coming from and what should we do with it.  its not necessary to act on every emotion we experience.    we often suggest that pwBPD shouldn't act on their emotions... they should ~be more logical and figure out what is appropriate or not~.    sometimes we don't hold ourselves to the same standards.   or recognize how difficult it is to stand aside from our emotions and let them pass.

'ducks

[Dad50]

"Dad50 ... I've noticed you've been asked several times... what are you getting out of this?    what keeps you going back and going through this same very recognizable pattern over and over again.  Does this remind you of anything in your past?    I've not seen your reply, maybe I have missed it but these are not rhetorical questions.    they are the doors to your next stage of healing.   I would encourage you to take a swing at answering them."


In discussions with my therapist and my own reflection I think it all goes back to a very, very successful but unhappy mother I always wanted to make happy, and thus validate my own esteem.

[babyducks]

In discussions with my therapist and my own reflection I think it all goes back to a very, very successful but unhappy mother I always wanted to make happy, and thus validate my own esteem.

Thanks Dad50.   I appreciate your honesty and willingness to open this door. 

It sounds like there may be some echoes from the unconscious messages your got from your mother to the messages coming from your partner.

it worked that way for me too.    My mother was Bipolar.    so of course I ended up with a partner who was both Bipolar 1 and BPD.   I distinctly recall thinking I was so experienced with the Bipolar stuff I could make it work with my partner, never once clueing in on the fact that all my experiences left me hyper sensitive to the Bipolar stuff.

it sounds like your very successful mother was always busy, and highly demanding... not giving a lot of thought or attention to you.     do I have that right?   and here you are in the same pattern with your girlfriend.     these are deep emotional hooks.     we often say that our pwBPD are reacting without conscious thought, or with out deliberate plans but the truth is we do it too.    the emotional hook of 'finally I am going to get this person to be happy, give them something they value and validate my choices.      those kinds of emotional hooks are deeply buried.   and they are hard to fight against.    I know.   

the more we focus on the other person... the person we are trying to make happy... the deeper we go into the patterns.    and  the harder it is to get out.

make sense?

[Dad50]

Yep, that sounds about right Babyducks. I definitely need to work to break my own patterns.

[babyducks]

Yep, that sounds about right Babyducks. I definitely need to work to break my own patterns.

What is a simple easy thing you might do to start breaking up the patterns?

in regards to the gym, can you take a break?   Give yourself a break for a week or two and try different gyms or different workouts?   Try not to think of it as giving some thing up but as an opportunity to raise your work outs to the next level.    Treat yourself to a new piece of gear,  a new training partner,  a new program.

Is there some work out that you have thought about trying but haven't gotten around to yet?