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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Serenity now.... sanity later.  (Read 2785 times)
Couper
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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2021, 07:02:50 PM »

I don't know if we can determine another person's intention...However, I assume she is an intelligent woman and I think you mentioned somewhere that she mentioned the Holy Spirit needed to "bonk" some sense into you so it would not be surprising if she is trying to use that as a tool to "convict" you. 

She can be very passive-aggressive and in other ways in the past she has dropped breadcrumbs as a way to send messages.  There is likely some merit to the notion.  Very observant on your part.
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Selfishsally
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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2021, 07:18:37 PM »

Her being very passive-aggressive makes sense. I think most of our pwbpd have some aspect of this passive-agressiveness. Unfortunately, I know a lot about this stuff.
Our spouses have some similarities of not having the ability to be introspective at all and being very self-centered.
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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2021, 08:04:18 PM »

Her being very passive-aggressive makes sense. I think most of our pwbpd have some aspect of this passive-agressiveness. Unfortunately, I know a lot about this stuff.
Our spouses have some similarities of not having the ability to be introspective at all and being very self-centered.

If only it stopped there.  Awhile back I came across something she wrote saying that if only I would shave my beard, like I was when we met, that would make me go back to loving her.  About two years after we got married I grew a beard.  Originally she encouraged me to do it and liked it.  It's nothing crazy and I think it suits me and I was always getting ingrown hairs which were very painful, unsightly, and took a long time to heal.  Sorry if that's t.m.i., but the simple fact that I have to explain things like this is how ridiculous it has gotten.  She has told me before that shaving my beard, "is another thing I won't do" for her.  I guess when I grew it is about the time my eyes started to open and I began pushing back against the disordered thinking, but the beard had nothing to do with any of that.  It must be a marker for her.  

Tonight after dinner for some reason she told the kids that she, "Had a dream that daddy was clean shaven like when I met him".  The way it spilled out, there is some kind of message hidden in there, too.  The tone was like she was taking a swing at me.  The kids started lobbing questions at her like, "What was the dream about?  What was happening?  Why did you dream that?" and then she got flustered and wanted to shut down the cross-examination!  Said that's all she remembered.  Who knows.  There is as much of a chance that it didn't even happen at all.      
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Couper
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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2021, 08:44:57 PM »

I completely understand this. You don't have to explain at all. For me, it's my last pregnancy. Or really anytime I'm pregnant. I'm not the perfect wife when I'm pregnant...maybe even considered high maintence Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). But these are times he considers us having marriage problems.

Pardon me if you've covered this elsewhere, but does he express resentment toward the kids perceiving them as a "before and after"?


Do you say anything when you percieve that she is trying to take a swing at you?
I would have hell to pay if he even thought I was taking a dig at him.

Depends on the situation.  In a case like tonight, I am unmoved as though I never heard it.  I've heard so much worse that maintaining a poker face is easy and I will not affirm an absurdity.  If she is being outright nasty about something, I will tell her that I am disengaging and leave her to stew in her own juices.

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Selfishsally
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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2021, 08:58:07 PM »

Pardon me if you've covered this elsewhere, but does he express resentment toward the kids perceiving them as a "before and after"?



I have never heard him say anything like that specifically. He does seem to have resentment when he has to do something for them(normal child rearing) that might be an inconvenience to him. According to him all of us are blamed for ruining his life...he just kinda lumps us all together.


Depends on the situation.  In a case like tonight, I am unmoved as though I never heard it.  I've heard so much worse that maintaining a poker face is easy and I will not affirm an absurdity.  If she is being outright nasty about something, I will tell her that I am disengaging and leave her to stew in her own juices.


That seems pretty healthy
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« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2021, 09:14:11 PM »

I have never heard him say anything like that specifically. He does seem to have resentment when he has to do something for them(normal child rearing) that might be an inconvenience to him. According to him all of us are blamed for ruining his life...he just kinda lumps us all together.

That is awful.  In the past mine has told me that she is jealous when the kids love on me and me on them.  I couldn't imagine being jealous of a thing like that and it just plain makes me pity her.  She has a special skill for being able to suck all the oxygen out of the room.



That seems pretty healthy

Healthy would be none of us having to be here for this stuff!  I hope can grab some peace wherever you are able to find it.  
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« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2021, 03:43:59 PM »

The meeting with the lawyer was good.  He's an interesting guy and obviously has a lot of experience.  He has been at it for a long time.  He wanted to know how things to go this point and a few different times I explained the specifics of a situation and he would respond with his analysis of it and it was spot-on.  It was almost like the replies given here.  When I gave him an example of her manufacturing a situation that never occurred to create herself the victim, his eyes got big and he said, "This is a dangerous person.  If she goes a step further and makes false charges like you touched your kids or something, you could wind up with some real problems on your hands.  Don't doubt her ability to do it."  From what I gathered, he has seen a lot.

It was a one-hour visit and I could have spent all day with him, so needless to say not everything got covered, but he said that I could come back for as many of these preliminary conferences as I want before I commit to going forward.  Getting the boilerplate stuff about the process out of the way has given me a place to structure the next meeting into some specific topics that need to be covered. 

This state has both fault and no-fault options, but fault trials virtually never happen due to the complexity and expense.  If she were cooperative (ha ha) it could be hammered out and done in 90 days.  If not, it has to go through the whole process of separation, etc.  There might be some credit toward separation existing already given the specifics of our circumstances.  It is an equity state rather than a simple 50/50 split, so there is some work to do with division of assets, but also I didn't marry young and I had a life before her.  His assuring me that I would not lose my business and would likely be able to hold on to some other things was a great relief.  One of the reasons I sought him out was his business experience and we discussed some interesting strategies.  That will be what it will be, but at least I'm not dealing with one of these lawyers that is single-topic and gets walked all over on the rest.

Of course, the kids are the biggest concern and he assured me that she cannot skip town to retreat, and that since I currently just get stonewalled on topics like school and health, it would give me an avenue to enforce my rights as a parent.  After seeing her issues with authority getting worse these last few years (meaning not me, but authority outside the home) if she gets called before a judge a few times it might be enough to get her to negotiate rather than just turn her back and do as she pleases.

Conflict stuff I can deal with and doesn't scare me much.  My only real fear in all of this is my relationship with my kids and that's something the law will have no control over.  I wish they were at least teenagers or something.  They still have such a wide-eyed innocence about them that they aren't going to understand.

So, I think I'll tailor the next meeting to kids / custody / responsibilities.  If I can get my head wrapped around that, then assets and the logistics of getting to a point of complete separation.  Thoughts are always welcome and enouraged.         
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kells76
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« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2021, 04:52:39 PM »

Excerpt
My only real fear in all of this is my relationship with my kids and that's something the law will have no control over.

While it's true that there's no law that says "it's illegal for one parent to badmouth the other parent to the kids", I think there are sort of roundabout ways for there to be legal protections for your kids' relationship with you. Namely:

Excerpt
So, I think I'll tailor the next meeting to kids / custody / responsibilities.

I'd probably be asking for strategies on how to 110% lock in that the kids get counseling, and not just with someone that only Mom picks, and something that starts before or during separation/divorce, not after, and also not after Mom has already smeared you to the kids. Start thinking about a way for the kids to build a relationship with a T sooner rather than later, and make it so that Mom can't unilaterally pull them out of T. Again, I know it's not a lot of specifics, but these are questions I'd bring to the next meeting -- how to protect the kids' ability to be in counseling (which roundaboutly protects their relationship with you).
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2021, 09:43:15 PM »

I am relieved this lawyer has both experience and strategies.  We often speak here of our members doing better with triple support — trusted friends and relatives, local proactive lawyer with strategies, and peer support such as here with a multitude of time-tested strategies.

What you've learned here has prepared you well for the matters to be discussed with your lawyer.  The local legal advice and the remote peer support can complement each other, maximizing your prospect of improved (less bad) outcome.
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2021, 10:43:53 AM »

Thank you both for this excellent feedback.  It is going into my notes.

Out of the three, the trusted friends and relatives thing is lacking.  I have very little of my own family left and they are not nearby.  For a variety of reasons, sometimes I am years between seeing my parents in-person.  In all these years, in only two instances have I uttered a peep about this to any friends and neither of them live anywhere close to here.  A couple of years ago one friend could tell things weren't right and pushed me into opening up saying I've helped her with so much that she wanted to help me (for context because I know it's the first thing people think -- it's never been romantic, she's 40 years older than me, and I knew her well before my uBPDw came along so it's not like a splitting loyalty thing).  She already knew about the vaccination conflict and worried horribly for my kids, but as people tend to do anytime I'd hint at something it was dismissed as, "oh, you know she's just perfect -- you know she's works so hard -- you know she spoils her babies" etc., but she doesn't know that.  She knows only me and in a decade has only ever spent a few hours total in her presence and never visited me here.  When she pushed to offer a sympathetic ear I dropped my guard, warned her that what I'd tell her goes on here is very distorted, and she pushed anyway.  I didn't want to overload her donkey and gave her only a couple of examples when she asked and the next time I'd call she'd feign not feeling well and promised to call back later, then not answer at all and not call back as she always had when she knew I had called.  I gave lots of space, but realized after awhile that I was being ignored.  Now she tells a mutual friend regularly, "I wish he'd call sometime" and without wanting him to get sucked in I tell him that phones work both ways and she doesn't dial out anymore.  There's nothing I can do.  It has put me in an awful spot, caused me to realize she's too uncomfortable to face the reality I live here, but doesn't want to fess up that she regrets asking.  She had been one of my best friends and a confidante for 20 years and now I've lost that.

The only other one is my best friend for nearly 30 years and I only ever said anything direct to him two months ago.  He lives in a similarly miserable situation and I have been an eyewitness to his torture.  I have spent a good amount of time in his wife's presence and witnessed some awful things.  Her issues are not hidden.  I don't know what specifically is wrong with her, I'd say it's not BPD, but she has claimed bipolar and been treated at various times with medication.  He's a different person from me but, since he's lived it, he understands.  He's no help for an exit, though.  He just shuts up and takes it for reasons that are all his own, yet I know it affects him horribly.  Other than that, I fear saying anything to anyone because I'll either lose them or create flying monkeys that will just turn around and feed the rumor mill and that's the last thing I need.  That's a big reason why this place has been so important to me.  People want to believe all the rest of us have what they have and I guess maybe can't comprehend it because they haven't lived it.    
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 10:49:14 AM by Couper » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2021, 11:15:57 AM »

Just wanted to add my two cents. I have no relatives at this point. I have a cousin or two who are alive but I haven’t talked to them in years, and never felt close to them when I was younger. (This is one of the consequences of being an only child of older parents.)

There’s something to be said about not having connections with people who’ve known you all your life. The upside is that it’s really freeing, not having to fight against outdated perceptions.

I did disclose my situation to some friends. The solidarity was supportive, but not terribly helpful. The best help for me was individual counseling. It was with the psychologist that had seen my husband and me for couple’s counseling. She let me know that he has a personality disorder, but didn’t specify which one. I know he presented more NPD around her, while saving the BPD for me.

Between seeing her and participating here, I found everything that I needed. She tried to fire me a few times, thinking that I didn’t need her anymore, but I kept going until I felt that way too.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2021, 11:50:53 AM »

Sometimes friends and family are not the best confidants. They either can't relate or are too uncomfortable with the situation, or they don't want get involved with marital/family issues.

The other thing friends can do is validate us to the point that we don't grow from it. They take our side. It's the other person's fault, rather than prompt us to work at bettering our part in the dynamics- even if the relationship ends- there may still be issues during divorce/parenting.

Also, I think many of us end up being isolated from others due to the dynamics in the relationship and/or family dynamics.

I would recommend counseling with a counselor you feel safe with. It's an empathetic ear, confidential, and with a goal on personal growth and recovery. I also felt that the people in 12 step codependency ( and for me ACA) actually "got it".

Feeling validated in counseling is very helpful. For a long time, I think people dealing with a BPD person have adopted their view of us, without our own feelings really being heard. That's important. I also value the people who showed me "tough love" when they needed to point something out that I could work on myself.



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« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2021, 12:07:18 PM »

I'm kind of in that same boat in that my parents were older when they had me.  There are still other very good friends back in my home state, some that were around since before I was born, but I can't go to them either.  They just have no understanding and if I do finally get the ball rolling on this out in the open, I expect to lose more friends or catch hell for not working to "fix it".  

The only reason I opened up to that one friend is because she pushed wanting to help and I was certainly around enough for a lot of her own personal stuff through the years.  I was a fool to think it would be reciprocated.  Part of me says I should have just kept my mouth shut like when I pushed back against the first couple of offers to listen, but I suppose the same outcome would have been inevitable because the pressure to share wouldn't have stopped.  It has crossed my mind that there's a secret side to her too and that she identified with some of what I shared about my uBPDw and she couldn't face it.  She's not without her own problems, and if anything all of this has shown me that you can't truly know someone that you aren't in an intimate relationship with.

What Notwendy mentioned is another reason I don't share, because I try to stay objective and don't want people close to me simply telling me what I want to hear.  I already have a wife that actively solicits those kinds of relationships.  She has succeeded in having a large circle of wagons placed around her by people that reinforce whatever narrative she wants to feed them.  With my best friend and even the lawyer, I express the caveat that they don't have to throw impartiality out the window just because of the positions they are in.  Neither one of them have truly seen what I have.  I'm the same when others come to me with issues.  "Trust, but verify".  I'm not into the sports mentality of rooting for a team just because that's your team.  I want people around me that are objective thinkers.  

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« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2021, 12:26:48 PM »

I think it's a gift that I had a 12 step sponsor who turned the mirror on me. Counselors will do that too. They can be a safe space to share your feelings and perhaps the most "secure" bond we might feel. I don't confide much in people due to fear they will reject me if they knew about my family dynamics. Maybe  there's no reason to be so fearful but I do think people who don't have a similar experience can be prone to judge.

Especially because pw BPD can be so wonderful to other people. Some people would not believe me.

But this particular sponsor had some tough love for me, and it was a good thing even if it didn't always feel good. Like a tough work out, but liking the results. A counselor, each time I vented about a person, would really get into why that upset me, why might I have reacted like that. She listened, but then shifted from "what that person did" to "what can I do?".

It might not seem fair- after all- it's the other person with the problem. But it can also be a form of self care.
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« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2021, 01:25:02 PM »

You mentioned the vaccination conflict and children.  If either of you are concerned about the risks for children, there are many factors to consider.  One is that early on, the scientists reported that one susceptible site for infection was ACE2 receptors which haven't developed yet in younger children.  That's one of the reasons children aren't impacted much by the virus, statistically the flu virus is more dangerous to them.

One reported mistake done with the "jab" itself is that the needle is being inserted in the arm and then in some cases the vaccine promptly pushed in.  It is supposed to be injected into the muscle but UK Dr. John Campbell discussed a study where mice were injected, half into muscle and half into blood vessels.  The mice which were injected into blood vessels suffered more heart and liver damage.  So he encouraged that first the needle is aspirated (pulling back to ensure no blood appears) before injecting the vaccine.

My sibling is a RN, BSN and she said shots into muscle should be aspirated to ensure the needle is properly placed.

There are an assortment of ways to be proactive, most discouraged by officialdom, but taking vitamin D3 as supplement is the simplest way to help build immunity.

(Edited to correct the link.)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 01:53:42 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2021, 01:41:39 PM »

You mentioned the vaccination conflict and children.  If either of you are concerned about the risks for children, there are many factors to consider.  One is that early on, the scientists reported that one susceptible site for infection was ACE2 receptors which haven't developed yet in younger children.  That's one of the reasons children aren't impacted much by the virus, statistically the flu virus is more dangerous to them.

One reported mistake done with the "jab" itself is that the needle is being inserted in the arm and then in some cases the vaccine promptly pushed in.  It is supposed to be injected into the muscle but UK Dr. John Campbell discussed a study where mice were injected, half into muscle and half into blood vessels.  The mice which were injected into blood vessels suffered more heart and liver damage.  So he encouraged that first the needle is aspirated (pulling back to ensure no blood appears) before injecting the vaccine.

My sibling is a RN, BSN and she said shots into muscle should be aspirated to ensure the needle is properly placed.

There are an assortment of ways to be proactive, most discouraged by officialdom, but taking vitamin D3 as supplement is the simplest way to help build immunity.

Looking back, I think I've goofed up and jumped thread.  It sounds like you're talking about Covid (your link doesn't work).  If so, put the whole Covid thing to the side.  That's not the topic on the table.

Before getting married and discussing things about raising children, vaccinations were a topic.  We both agreed that it's not wise to load up a little person that has been out for all of 30 minutes with over a dozen vaccines.  Our agreement was that after they've gotten established and all is good to create a plan with the new pediatrician about what to get and what schedule, agreeing on the essentials we had when we were kids (teatnus, MMR, Polio, etc.) and not some of the modern more elective ones.  

There were doctors visits early on, (I now know) me getting lied to, stonewalling, her having conflict with the doctor (remember, she can't deal with anyone disagreeing with her), and my children have never had anything.  Not one single thing we agreed to.  It later comes out that she never ever had any intention of following through with any of it.  In her mind she was supposed to educate me and change my mind after the fact.  I now know these are long-held beliefs from way before I came along and that I got lied to.

This could be much longer but I won't drag this out.  That's just to square you up with the situation that I must have posted elsewhere.  Sorry about that!   
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« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2021, 02:00:27 PM »

Now I understand about your vaccination situation.  My ex too had concerns about vaccines, but at first mainly to avoid combo injections.  So many were administered separately.  Later she became more difficult and during our separation the pediatrician "withdrew services" due to her behaviors.

(I fixed the link.)
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« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2021, 07:58:27 PM »

Yep, another knife in the back since it was something she never had any intention of making good.  Followed by years of expecting something that was never going to come.  She doesn't trust me, yet she's the one that cannot be trusted.  Moving got her away from the pediatrician we had and now I know this is why she won't get a new one.  Whenever I have tried to push making this happen, she goes and lights a fire in the opposite corner of the room, so to speak.  This will become a true nightmare if they have to go to regular school someday or wherever else it may be a requirement in other aspects of their lives.

She won't even shop at the main grocery store we used to use before 2020.  Found this out only recently.  She had to rush to some other store last week before it closed and I said go to the big one, it's open late: "I'm not going there.  It's like Venezuela."  I ask her to explain why and all she'll say is it's like Venezuela.  I tell her I've never been to Venezuela so I don't understand why: "You want me to have an anxiety attack because it's like Venezuela."  She just got more agitated with each request for her to elaborate.  She won't admit it, but I think what happened is when different stores had different rules last year, a store manager probably confronted her for not wearing a mask or something and it's just like the pediatrician thing.  She can't contend with anybody that challenges her.  The kids often shop with her at these various places so I've asked what that means and they say they have no idea.  All the stores seem the same to them.

I spent a wonderful day alone with my kids again and we just got back from dinner.  It's so much fun not having to worry if a waitress is going to spit in your food because she does something offensive to them or have her trying to crash into a woman carrying a baby in an aisle just because, what, she's competition or something?  I have the best time with my kids when she's nowhere around but have to remind myself that the context still isn't the same as my kids don't know anything about having two separate homes.  I think I need to do more of these separate outings with them so they realize at least that things like this will still be good with only one of us around.    
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« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2021, 09:24:01 AM »

The idea that stores are like Venezuela is floating around social media in reference to the supply chain and stores being out of stock on some items. Without getting into political debates ( not allowed here, and not anything enjoyable ) I think it's pretty obvious that people in general seem to be divided along political lines and the lines are clear.

I think everyone tries to decide for themselves along the muddled information on social media. However, I also wonder if for BPD taking a stand is also a form of "self" for them. So being anti mask, anti vaccine is not only a decision but identifying as anti mask, anti vaccine is a form of self and belonging. And not to pick on one side ( but bringing this one up as it's your wife's side)- because I see this on both sides of the fence.

During the last election, my mother would make statements that reflected statements she heard from her friends, a sort of way to "fit in". After all, if all your friends think one candidate is a total loser, well you say that too. Sometimes I would challenge her statement with a fact- and she'd be surprised as this wasn't in her circle to say that. Social media encourages this kind of thinking with one sided memes. I think we are all susceptible to this in some ways. Social media is also mostly black and white thinking.

So if someone at a store asks your wife to put on a mask, it's a challenge to her identity, and so she will likely feel her identity is threatened. If she goes to the pediatrician, they are going to ask about  childhood vaccinations. That is standard routine, just as they will ask about childhood illnesses for their records. However, this may feel threatening to her as well.

Sadly, I think these divisions are influencing everyone, not just pwBPD but I think it would be harder to discuss these topics with someone who does have BPD. It's getting harder to "meet in the middle" for everyone unfortunately.
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« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2021, 10:01:48 AM »

The idea that stores are like Venezuela is floating around social media in reference to the supply chain and stores being out of stock on some items. Without getting into political debates ( not allowed here, and not anything enjoyable ) I think it's pretty obvious that people in general seem to be divided along political lines and the lines are clear.

Is that where she picked up the term?  Most of what she says she parrots from social media so I'm not surprised it's not a thought unique to her.  It's not even necessarily political.  In almost all things she will reject the rational in favor of the absurd.  The deal is though (using that criteria) -- all the stores were / are like Venezuela and it has been happening again.  There is something different about this place that she won't go.  Something happened there and it is personal somehow.  No matter how I asked the question, she will not tell me what makes this store different from the rest.  Past experience tells me when she is obfuscating, it is lying by omission.  I have been there and noticed nothing unique about it.  It's a real shame because it's actually the nicest store and now I know why certain things stopped appearing in the cupboard.

I have no interest in opening up any political dialogue.  I will say that so far as what's-what out there, she and I don't disagree on most of it.  Where we disagree is on how we treat people.  If a store has policies I don't like -- their house, their rules, I move on.  If a store has policies she doesn't like -- rip them on social media, badger friends that still go there, they need to be protested against, etc.  She spent untold hours of 2020 absorbing every kook-job angle on everything and diligently fighting the Facebook war (while several dinners burned and I mean completely unsalvageable burned -- you have not smelled a smell until you have come in to find a pot of hardboiled eggs with their shells cremated in the pot!) and I left her 100% hands-off with no comment, but the one time I had the t.v. on at all for myself (simply for the footage) and it was on a channel she objected to, she barges in the room screaming at me. 2020 isn't what did me in for all of this, but it surely showed me how bad she can be.  She was absolutely deranged.

This is no different since Day 1 when Hyde came out, just magnified.  Everyone should accept and abide by her beliefs, but if your beliefs contradict hers even though you don't impose them on her -- she fights.  

It must certainly affect pwBPD to a greater extreme.  I have plenty of friends I disagree with.  We talk, we debate, we agree or disagree, whatever -- we are still friends and we go get lunch.  Last year there was hardly anyone in her circle that she didn't find some way to offend and here recently she's been saying that she doesn't understand why she doesn't have any friends left.
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« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2021, 10:25:17 AM »

The Venezuela thing is all over Facebook ( I don't do other social media ). I also have friends and family who span the whole spectrum of politics/mask/vaccine opinion and so I do hear all points of view. I sometimes question if this is going to be the dividing factor.

You are correct though, it's how we treat each other that makes the difference. I see posts from people ( both sides) blocking, name calling, refusing to speak to someone with a different opinion. This leaves people only in their own camps.

I think it comes down to boundaries. If someone doesn't want to wear a mask and the store requires it, they can decide what to do- wear one or shop somewhere else. It's taking it to social media, slamming the store, unfriending anyone who disagrees that hurts relationships. I would think this kind of drama could attract disordered people- it even involves people who don't have a disorder.
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« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2021, 10:49:36 AM »

After all, if all your friends think one candidate is a total loser, well you say that too.

I've mentioned this one elsewhere but will again because it fits here.  This spring she was posting in the open with one of the few (and new) friends she still has talking about everyone that has "snoozed" her and how she should p.m. all those people and make them listen to her.  I think it was a type of passive-aggressiveness posting that out in the open.  Sort of like standing in the middle of a party with one person and trash talking everyone standing around you.

One of those friends (old friend, a very good person from 20 years back who I liked a lot) checked in and gave her the most eloquent piece of honesty about why she has lost all of her old friends.  Everything except one little comment was about her being uncivil, disparaging anyone whose personal beliefs didn't align with hers, etc.  It was wonderfully written and factual.  The one place she deviated from the message was to say that she, "recognized the irony that each of us believes the other has been deceived".  She completely ignored all the undebatable hard truths the friend shared in a very classy way and went into damage control mode messaging all of her perceived allies that saw it about, "how I pity her, she is so deceived".  I guess that was the only straw she could grasp to discredit her.  I don't think any of them ever sent her a message of support.  Even her allies recognized how toxic she has become.  
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« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2021, 04:37:02 PM »

I don't think any of us like to hear constructive criticism, but when faced with having done something that may have hurt a friendship- for the relationship to be repaired, we need to apologize and try to do better. If someone can not receive the information, it makes the relationship tend to be one sided.
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« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2021, 08:59:14 PM »

Hi Couper,

I remember some very noteable times in my childhood and adult life where my uBPDm had some similar reactions like your uBPDw. The situations were different, but the responses were parallel. My mom became extremely angry if she were confronted in public about something. She never forgot and then permanently marked them off her list. If it was a store or a person, the response was the same. It's called 'splitting' in case you're not familiar with the term. I like what my T called it: the naughty and the nice list. Heaven forbid if you got on my uBPDm's naughty list!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0

Wools
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« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2021, 09:15:16 AM »

It's called 'splitting' in case you're not familiar with the term.

Thank you for this.  I've certainly seen the term enough around here but didn't attribute it to this event.  Maybe it could also be called the Split List!  I'm on the Split List.  I guess now the store is on the Split List.  Too bad.  They had a nice assortment of pickles!
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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2022, 09:23:48 PM »

Hello friends.  I know I have not posted in quite some time and feel terrible for dropping off without explanation.  It happened for a variety of reasons.  One of which was coming here day-after-day seeing the revolving door of new people.  I felt like all I was doing was commiserating and not offering much that was constructive and that maybe it was just time for a break to put my time and energy into some other things.  December also brought of unfortunate occurrences and sickness, but that has since passed.  I am very grateful for a friend from here that has stayed in touch and helped me during this time.

This thread is old, but I bumped it because it's where I left off.  I still haven't gone back for the second trip to the lawyer.  Life got busy with the end-of-year and Christmas stuff and I let it slip.  Also, when your little girl says things out of the blue like, "I love having my daddy at home every day", it's easy to lose your resolve.

My uBPDw is keeping up with her "counseling" mentioned at the start of the thread.  I've never said anything against it and she almost always asks only by text if I can "watch the kids on Wednesday".  Never an in-person request like an adult and I have never said one word about what it costs or anything else.  In fact, it's usually almost always sent ten minutes after she goes out to be with one of her religious groups.  They have been weekly until recently.

Honestly, she has been much more tolerable, but the BPD monster still lurks.  My attitude toward her has not softened with her new behavior.  She has slandered me, used me as her tool to promote her victimhood, etc. and never apologized or acknowledged any of it.   I wish she would just vaporize. 

It's all weighing heavily on me this week because.... I'm having a good time!  It's like living a double life.  Last year I mentioned an event from six years ago that I attended that was just five days away and she ambushed me at one of the stops.  Finally, I had an opportunity to do this event again and, leading up to it, I could tell another ambush was coming by the questions she was asking.  I pushed her away from the topic a few times but she kept probing about details.  Maybe not how you guys would tell me to handle it, but the morning I left, I told her that this was my personal time away and that I wanted our worlds separate and that I would not tolerate another ambush like the last time.  The veins popped out of her head and she got all dysregulated, which I totally expected, but if I did not make absolutely clear my intentions, I knew she would use it as an opportunity to ambush.  I told her that I know she trashes me within her circle and that she wasn't welcome in mine to do the same.  That this is my time away and that I cannot stop her spreading falsehoods when she is out, but that I would not tolerate her trashing me within my own world.  Three more days left and no ambush so far.  I'm also back at the house every night (part of what made this doable because it's close this year), but because she sleeps in so late and I'm so reluctant to come home, I barely see her.

It has been a bittersweet time.  I am free and happy with my healthy-minded friends, but I also come crashing back down to earth when I realize this is just for a few more days.  The occasional person asks why my wife doesn't come (most people's do) and that's when realty slaps me in the face.  I just have to tell them it's not her thing (it isn't, but she still wants to be there to make it all about her).  It's enough to make me consider the next appointment with the lawyer that I should have done last year.... and then thoughts of my kids come back in to play.  What in the hell did I do to deserve this wretched scenario?  I'm trying my best to detach while I'm there and enjoy it.  My feelings toward her have been unwavering.  Every time she runs to the store, I fantasize what it would be like if she never came back.... and then my heart sinks when I hear her car coming up the driveway.  Despite the front she has put up, she still hates me and blames me for everything in her life.  I only wish the desire to part ways was as strong in her as it is in me. 

There aren't any questions here.  I just felt obligated to drop in and report.  Here's hoping that all of you are in a better place than you were last year.
           
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« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2022, 08:42:12 PM »

The event is now over and I have been through a roller coaster of emotions today.  I woke up having felt almost a sense of regret for having gone to experience a good life that does not exist here, only to have to return to reality.  It's good that my uBPDw took off for her parent's yesterday because I think it was good to be alone.  A well-timed message from a friend helped.

I was up pretty early from not being able to sleep and by 9:00 decided to call the lawyer's office to make the second appointment that I should have made six months ago (where would I be now if I had followed-through? -- maybe where I wish I was now).  Some new friends that I made at the event stopped by and that made my regret that I attended go away. 

I mowed a lot of grass, did a lot of thinking, and got a second well-timed note from a friend that made me realize I'm already living a separate life under the same roof (that part is painless for me to grasp, anyway) but that my kids also already somewhat experience life as it would be completely divorced.  I go away and do my things separately.  She goes away (overnight for days at a time), takes them with her, and does her things.  How would it be any different if they were in their own house ten miles away?  It cannot be healthy for them to see two unaffectionate parents living under the same roof.  Maybe their world would make more sense to see two people who do not like each other living in separate places.  She has dysregulated around the kids without me here in the past.  I can't protect them from her 24/7, but at least if I had a 50/50 arrangement with them, I could protect them more than I do now.  Maybe I could even take them for days at a time like she does, as she is loathe to let me have them for more than a run to the store.

Though none of this has yet gone before the court, in the eyes of the law in my state, a lot of the requirements for the timeline of separation has actually been satisfied despite the fact that we still live under the same roof.  This came about as a result of my actions before I even knew, but once I knew, I have maintained it.  In almost three years, there has been no backsliding or inconsistency.  There has been zero intimacy, no island vacations, and trips where she does accompany me are only for the benefit of my kids, like taking them to see my parents. 

I cannot face-down my second 40 years like this so that a predator BPD can try to fill a hole in her soul by devouring mine.  None of it is fair to my children or myself, but unfairness is rampant in daily life in many other ways.  I guess all we can do is work with the hand we are dealt and hope for the best possible outcome.

     
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« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2022, 12:39:58 PM »

It sounds like you decided, perhaps quite some time ago, to detach from your uBPDw. Are you still conflicted about staying, or hoping for improvement in the relationship? What do you feel has kept you there?

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Wools
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« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2022, 01:51:33 PM »

It sounds like you decided, perhaps quite some time ago, to detach from your uBPDw. Are you still conflicted about staying, or hoping for improvement in the relationship? What do you feel has kept you there?

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Wools

Hi Wools,

Simple.  My kids.  Last year the lawyer took away the fear that I would be bankrupted, so I can't use that as an excuse.  When your babies run up and hug you out of the blue and say things like, "we love having daddy at home every day", how can you turn around and tell them they are going to get partially evicted?

There is no improvement that would cause me to want to stay.  She has slandered me to promote her victimhood.  She has taken away my dignity by telling people things like I can't pay our bills, yet we have no unsecured debt, nothing is in arrears, my credit is excellent, and nobody is going hungry.  She tells people that I exercise absolute control over her all while she has been free to run around wherever with no objection from me.  I cannot view her as anything other than a predator with no conscience and no integrity.

I would throw myself on a grenade to save my kids.  The difference is, once a grenade goes off, the threat is over.  If I keep throwing myself on her and wind up having a heart attack or whatever is coming down the pike, she's still here to keep doing damage even after I'm gone.    
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 01:58:55 PM by Couper » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2022, 07:21:55 AM »

She tells people that I exercise absolute control over her all while she has been free to run around wherever with no objection from me.  


I relate to this twisted thinking, it's fascinating that they can believe in it. I think it has something to do with the fact that she can't control your thoughts and feelings, so she views it as you controlling her. So she sees boundaries as control.
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