Need help with 5 year old displaying BPD traits

[TooOldForThis]

Hello,
new here.  I need help with my grandson who is 5 and literally driving me insane.  I take care of them (5 and 2) while my d is in the AF in another country.  Her exh has been diagnosed with BPD and he lives with a parent in another country and can't take care of them and lives in a country where they are not friendly with this US when it come to children, so here i am.   My exh has NPD (not officially diagnosed) so i know what it feels like to be tormented by a personality disorder.   I am the only person to take care of them and feel quite stuck and helpless at this point and need help.

Is 5 too young to be this evil minded?  He is very manipulating, controlling and everything he does is intentional and on purpose.  Kindergarden-he says letters wrong, sounds wrong, numbers wrong and the small words (at, an, the, it, is), or he says he does not know them when i know he does.  He not only does it to me, he does it to the teacher too.   She thinks he can't count past 39, but he can count to 100.   I had the Pre-k teacher get with him do homework with him, like she was doing him a favor, and he did everything perfect.  After they were done, she asked him "why did he give G such a hard time on homework-his reply "cause i can" and then she asked him why he does not do it right for his teacher at school-his reply "because I don't want to".  Food-he says he don't like chicken, but eats chicken nuggets, will make throw up sounds for foods he don't even know nor has ever eaten.  I say i like a food, he will yell no and scream.  I don't give him what he wants he screams in a fit, he did not get a cracker at (aftercare/Pre-k) and he threw himself on the floor and screamed then screamed all the way home.  He tortures he little b with great pleasure.  I can ask him if he did something that was wrong, he says no, but grins, like he is proud of himself.  He will ask the little one if he wants candy, and of course he comes to me and i say no, so he crys and the BPD just sits there and grins, like he is watching the show he put into motion.  Taking a bath i have told him to scoot forward because it hurts my back where he was, so now, every time, he keeps moving backwards like i won't notice, just to hurt me.  He urinated on his bed, he told me he wet the bed, so i said to come change and get off your wet sleep clothes, he very easily said "there not wet".  So that's when i knew he just urinated on it on purpose.  I had just changed the little b's sheets the day before because his diaper was full, and i guess i complained a little, so once again, he wanted to cause me more work/pain.  He got in trouble at school, so he wet his clothes on purpose. 
I feel like he tries so hard to make me mad, pushes those buttons and then just grins this grin that i want to slap off his face.

He can cry in a split second and the be giggling the next second.
When M and D video call, he really does not give them the time of day, he ignores them and makes them call for him to come to the phone.  When i used to let him hold the phone, he would change the screen so he was in the bigger picture and them in the smaller picture and he would make faces and look at himself.  He only asks for them when he is in trouble, neither child has cried for them or anything...kinda scary.  I have had them about 9 months.  They do not know that M and D are divorced, i do not think the 5 yr understands why they call at different times and are in different places.
I am doing the best i can but feel so alone.  Covid has not helped- I can't even get help from my family, i am burnt out and stressed out and just want to wring his little neck.

My question as well...can he be diagnosed yet?  Some of what i read says when they are 8?  I need help with him now!  I have another year to go...I can't do this another year without something...therapy...anything.  I have tried different approaches with him...nothing works, I get mad and can't seem to stop myself and he just enjoys it, like that is his goal...to see me mad.  God help me...please.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi TooOldForThis
First of all I have to say your screen name is just how I feel! I said to someone the other day that I was doing four hourly feeds when I was sixty and now dealing with a preteen at seventy.

Oh the tiredness!

But back to your question. Over here they don't diagnose BPD until late teens earliest. I think that there are many other issues that could be the cause of the signs and symptoms.

Hope you don't mind me asking some questions: does your daughter know how he is behaving towards you

How long has he been in your care?

Does his mum and/or dad see him occasionally? If so how does he react when they leave.

How does he sleep?

Kids with ADHD can exhibit a lot of the things you describe: but the same things can be associated with anxiety disorder or a range of other things.

My first step would be a complete checkup with a GP - if this is something you can do ie has your daughter signed a note giving her consent to you to discuss medical things with his GP.

There are a few things in what you describe where I think you could step back. GS is in kindergarten and where I am they don't have homework. I would step back from worrying about whether he knows at it etc - that's the teacher's role. I am a teacher and I feel if a 5 year old goes to school, it is good for a parent/grandparent to forget about things unless the teacher brings something to your attention.

It seems as though there is a real tension build up between the two of you - he knows how to push your buttons  - and to step back where you can to avoid the opportunity for button pushing.

Just some thoughts: my gd is terribly fussy eater - in fact I think she might be gluten intolerant - but if she eats enough from the different food groups I'm okay with that eg she likes cold things so will eat raw veg but fussy about cooked ones.
I've mentioned the school - drop him off and pick him up and that's it.

The calls with the parents - can you set him up and go into another room while he has his go?

The other thing is - I would be surprised if he didn't have some idea that things are 'not quite right' with his parents. Sometimes the not knowing can cause an intelligent child to be really awful in their behaviour.

Sorry it's such a long response! Over to you . . .  .

[TooOldForThis]

Hi there,

My D knows what he is doing, he did it with them too, unfortunately he got away with a lot being home with dad all day, dad getting high in the garage, and them letting them eat whatever they wanted and do whatever they wanted as long as it did not get in his way.  A lot of what my gs does is just like his dad, i feel some is learned behavior and the rest is genetic.

They are both in different countries, they can only do video calls, a couple time a week if that.  I am just the doormat.  My D can not have them with her, i can't go into details, and we don't want dad to have them, one, for obvious reasons and two because my D would never get them back from him being in the country he is in.  So it's just me, for 9 months now.  He has escalated since he started kindergarten.

He must pass certain things in K to move forward to 1st, it is our responsibility to help teach and do homework with them, they get tested and graded.  If he pretends he does not know things on the test, just because he don't want to, then he will fail K for no reason other than the wants what he feels is control over the situation, but he is 5, so he is too young to realize what impact that will have, I have told him over and over that i know he is pretending and so does the teacher, and to stop pretending because he will fail K, and his reply is " I want to fail K".   Once i realized that he was doing that for the pure pleasure of seeing me get mad and talk about how important it was...I stopped, that is feeding into his enjoyment...but then his homework does not get done.
One example - the word "and" has been in his little books he brings home to read, and it has been in almost every one, but now he does not know what it is, and says other words or letter sounds.

I no longer let him or little b hold the phone, they throw it on the floor, step on it, they almost cracked it.  They have no respect for anything, they destroy everything they touch.  They had an ipad, i was so surprised to see them stand on it, throw it across the room, hit it, kick it.  They watched these little kid u tube shows and then would fight and yell and scream over it, so I weaned them off it.  They have not seen it for 7 months now.  It was totally smashed, surprised it did not cut their fingers.  The calls go way better for the parents if I hold the phone.

I thought some of this behaviors could be other things as well, but i keep going back to bpd like his dad, and i know my D is narcissistic like her dad, she learned how to use me like a doormat from her father, she's just not as bad.  After my D was out of school i ceased communication with exh.

I can't just step back, i am in charge of caring for them, feeding them, making sure they are clean, fed and taken care of.  The button pushing in is every aspect of our daily life, it happens with meal time, bath time, bed time, morning, and all the in between.  I am doing things around the house and when i am busy or lease expect it, there it is.  He asks for things 50 times within a 3 minute period and 10 of those times I say no, he scream bloody murder with a high pitch scream.  If I ignore him it's "grandma...grandma...grandma...grandma...grandma...you get the picture.  I will tell him, "I'm not answering you anymore, you know my answer"  he screams and tells me "no".  Then he will get little b crying on purpose too. v So then i have the two of them screaming and crying and I just want to walk out the door.

His lying is horrible, he got in trouble at school for lying to not only his teacher but another teacher as well.  When i asked him what happened he started to say something about a ball, then stopped and said "I don't know".  That is when I know he is lying.  I keep describing him to my mom as "mental".  I get so exhausted by the end of the day, not only am i tired from working all day, but then come home and have to face the mind games till bedtime.  I have 2 controlling/manipulative co workers and then face a 5 year old doing it to...so done with it all.

I need help on how to deal with him and what could a therapist do for him and will they do anything at 5?  He will fail K for no reason.  Do you let that happen?  That will set the pace for the rest of his life.  His dad received no therapy - his parents enabled him and still are at age 30.  I want more for my gs, i don't want his life to be like that.  Can it be helped or is he destined to be like his dad?

I can't do this for another year...I just can't...somethings got to change.

[Sancho]

Thanks for the detail. K is just so different here - there would be no thought of not progressing to the next level at this stage unless it was deemed in the child's best interest after lots of discussion etc.

There seem to be elements of oppositional/defiance disorder there somewhere?

Coming back to the school - so here what would happen is a referral to the school psychologist, referral from GP to paediatrician; tests by the school nurse etc.

Are there any of these supports available where you are?

You seem to be trying everything and it must be just awful, exhausting, frustrating etc.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi. I have a 5 year old who has a father with bpd traits. There's a family history of it. My son has issues with emotional regulation and self control and I have just started him in play therapy.

Your grandson could be acting out as a response to the trauma. Having a parent with a mental illness, having a parent with a substance abuse issue, and being separated from a parent or parents at a young age are Adverse Childhood Experiences. A child therapist could definitely help, even at age 5, and could give you tools to help you deal with the behaviors.

More about ACEs:

https://www.nctsn.org/what-is-child-trauma/trauma-types/complex-trauma/effects

[TooOldForThis]

Sancho.

Yes, i have called and spoke with the school counselor and she was supposed to speak with him, said it would take several times, but would let me know.  It has been a week and i have not heard anything yet.

I do believe there is oppositional defiance as well.  It is just so frustrating.

I do need tools for what and how to do things to avoid him getting to me, you just don't expect this from a 5 year old, it's so crazy.

Thanks for the response.

[TooOldForThis]

I am Redeemed,

Thank you for the info, I will check it out.  I do not know exactly how much he realizes what is going on and why him and his brother are with me.  They do not seem to miss their parents, they hardly mention them, just every once in a while with statements of "my mommy got me that  or my mommy and daddy took me there before".

Looking forward to the tools to help handle him and is emotional outbursts and the manipulative nature.

It's so exhausting.

Thank you so much!

[I Am Redeemed]

I am Redeemed,

Thank you for the info, I will check it out.  I do not know exactly how much he realizes what is going on and why him and his brother are with me.  They do not seem to miss their parents, they hardly mention them, just every once in a while with statements of "my mommy got me that  or my mommy and daddy took me there before".

Looking forward to the tools to help handle him and is emotional outbursts and the manipulative nature.

It's so exhausting.

Thank you so much!

My son has no idea why his father disappeared from his life. It's been 3 years since he saw him. But I think he has a fear of abandonment that stems from this, even if he doesn't consciously know why. Therapy is helping him with these feelings that he can't verbalize or put in context. It's also helping me because his behavior triggers me.

Good luck to you and your grandson.

[Methuen]

Your grandson could be acting out as a response to the trauma. Having a parent with a mental illness, having a parent with a substance abuse issue, and being separated from a parent or parents at a young age are Adverse Childhood Experiences. A child therapist could definitely help, even at age 5, and could give you tools to help you deal with the behaviors.

I am usually on the psi board, but your thread caught my eye.  I taught child development for many years. This is great advice from IAR.  Over my career (I am now retired) the waiting list in the school district to see a child psychologist grew from a few months to 5 years.  I taught students who aged out and graduated before they were tested.  It was a problem of funding, so I would also consider another avenue of support.  

Have you already spoken to his doctor?  Asked for a referral  to a pediatrician or child psychologist?  A key would be to emphasize what effect this is having on you, and exactly how desperate and worn down you are.  This might get a referral that is pioritized.

Early intervention is key.

Self care for you is important, so that you are well enough yourself to respond to him with your best tools.  Do you have self care strategies that work for you when he’s at school?

[kells76]

Self care for you is important, so that you are well enough yourself to respond to him with your best tools.  Do you have self care strategies that work for you when he’s at school?

I was thinking about your thread a couple of days ago, and you sound like you could use respite/backup care. While I'm not sure the specifics for your area, if the military is involved because your D is in the AF, perhaps there is a resource through them? Our town has a "relief nursery", so you could Google search that for your area. Check out your county's health department, too, even just calling a general info number and saying you need relief or backup care could be enough info for them to go on.

The more time you have to take a break and take care of yourself, the better off all of you will be.

Especially if GS can perhaps receive a diagnosis through his pediatrician, then more doors for backup/respite care could open for you.

 

kells76