BPD and/or abuse

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have been posting on the bettering a relationship board - first time posting here. I’m conflicted now. About 2 weeks ago uBPDh did some scary things towards me and I left the home with our kiddo for the first time. I ended up coming home less than 24 hours later with our child mainly because I didn’t want to have to explain anything more to our child and uBPDh was making threats about himself. Since then I have been listening to “Why Does He Do That” and I know very clearly that his behavior is abusive in multiple ways. This author says that abusers rarely have personality disorders and their abuse is a product of societal influence and entitlement. I do think that uBPDh is consistent with both descriptions. How can you tell if it’s BPD and/or abuse? And does it make a difference?

Since  a few people know about what happened that night I have some hope that it won’t happen again, but there are other “less serious” abusive talk and actions I would expect to continue without serious help. Do you start with therapy or an abuse program? This book says therapy can cause them to think too much of their feelings when they need to consider their actions. And if he has a hard time even considering therapy, then an abuser program would be out of the question. And while couple’s therapy my be more economical I understand that it may be more harmful for my situation.

I know this is a pretty miserable relationship for me (and evidently for him too?) and it’s affecting our child. I would hate to lose what we have built and the ways we are very compatible. I would hate to break up my family but I know it may be best for everyone, even if it takes a while for everyone to realize that. Also I hate to call it off without giving it everything I have, but maybe he doesn’t deserve that. I have been asking for help long enough.

[Hope4Joy]

I have been posting on the bettering a relationship board - first time posting here. I’m conflicted now. About 2 weeks ago uBPDh did some scary things towards me and I left the home with our kiddo for the first time. I ended up coming home less than 24 hours later with our child mainly because I didn’t want to have to explain anything more to our child and uBPDh was making threats about himself. Since then I have been listening to “Why Does He Do That” and I know very clearly that his behavior is abusive in multiple ways. This author says that abusers rarely have personality disorders and their abuse is a product of societal influence and entitlement. I do think that uBPDh is consistent with both descriptions. How can you tell if it’s BPD and/or abuse? And does it make a difference?

Since  a few people know about what happened that night I have some hope that it won’t happen again, but there are other “less serious” abusive talk and actions I would expect to continue without serious help. Do you start with therapy or an abuse program? This book says therapy can cause them to think too much of their feelings when they need to consider their actions. And if he has a hard time even considering therapy, then an abuser program would be out of the question. And while couple’s therapy my be more economical I understand that it may be more harmful for my situation.

I know this is a pretty miserable relationship for me (and evidently for him too?) and it’s affecting our child. I would hate to lose what we have built and the ways we are very compatible. I would hate to break up my family but I know it may be best for everyone, even if it takes a while for everyone to realize that. Also I hate to call it off without giving it everything I have, but maybe he doesn’t deserve that. I have been asking for help long enough.

[Cat Familiar]

If someone hasn’t already encouraged you to take the Mosaic Test to determine your level of danger, please do, and let us know the result.

Your safety and that of your child is paramount.

Regardless of the origin of abusive behavior, it’s dangerous and unacceptable.

Is your husband willing to understand and accept consequences for his behavior? What indications has he shown that he would be open to therapy or an abusers program?

And you are correct that couple’s counseling would be counterproductive to you.

[Hope4Joy]

Oh goodness, what is the need for registration?

I feel pretty safe. He is high functioning and would not want to do anything (more) that anyone would find out about or that could cause legal ramifications.

He does not take responsibility for his actions. No apologies.
He is not very open to therapy. He agreed to work through some books together in order for me to come home. Said something BS like that he would need to feel better before he would be ready for therapy. I tried to set some timeline with him like would we seek help after 2 weeks of book work, 1 or 2 months… no commitment.

[ForeverDad]

I have been listening to “Why Does He Do That” and I know very clearly that his behavior is abusive in multiple ways. This author says that abusers rarely have personality disorders and their abuse is a product of societal influence and entitlement. I do think that uBPDh is consistent with both descriptions. How can you tell if it’s BPD and/or abuse? And does it make a difference?

We have a thread which topic is that book.  You can follow the link.

Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
Book Description
This is a great read for those dealing with a borderline, because it is very likely that alongside BPD, NPD, or other psychological disorder, an abuser exists. The book addresses how mental disorders (as defined by the DSM) and abuser-mentalities co-exist.

While I have the book and only skimmed it long ago, I emphasized the word "alongside" in the confidence that abusive people and acting-out personality disorders are not mutually exclusive.  Most members here would agree there can be an overlap between the two.

So don't fret whether he is one or the other... deal with it as you see and experience it.  If you conclude you or your children may be in danger, even if only some of the time, then take measures to protect yourself and those you care for.  That is the priority.

Many members here have been through divorce and custody cases in the legal system.  One aspect we've noticed is that courts and those professionals around the courts seldom want to get involved with figuring out WHY the person is abusive, misbehaving or whatever.  They're not there to fix the person.  Yes, the person needs therapy but the courts learned long ago that "though you can lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink".  What they instead focus on is managing the end of the relationship (separation and divorce) and setting limits on poor behaviors going forward (appropriate custody and parenting schedule orders).

You would do well to follow the pattern set above by officialdom.  So what to do?  Since courts make their decisions based on documented evidence, then you can follow that pattern.  Whether you use a journal, calendar, diary or something similar, document the incidents of poor behavior.  (Just making vague claims without any supporting details such as "he always..." or "she always..." may be viewed as hearsay and ignored.  Log the details.)  What also carries great weight is any incident where recognized professionals have gotten involved such as police, doctors, school officials, children's protective services, social agencies, etc.

[I Am Redeemed]

Bancroft also wrote "Should I Stay or Should I Go?", and this book discusses more about how to deduce if the abuser is suffering from a mental illness in addition to the abusive behavior.

Both treatment for personality disorders and abusive behavior require the willingness of the person to address their issues and practice the skills learned in therapy or a batterer's intervention program.

Take a look at this and see if any of these behaviors sound familiar to you
Duluth model

[Hope4Joy]

He uses most of those. Primarily threats and intimidation. I have that book selected to read as soon as I get more library credit next month. What do I tell our 4 year old if we leave?

[kells76]

What do I tell our 4 year old if we leave?

It's fine to keep it simple: "Some families live all together in the same house, and some families have two houses, one for Mom and one for Dad. That's what we're doing now."

It's OK also to say "I don't know yet" to some questions, though I'm kind of thinking a 4YO may be more focused on really tangible things (toys, room, pets, park, toothbrush, etc) versus harder meta-questions ("why don't you love Dad any more").

You can always bring it back to a level that a 4YO can connect with -- finding some example about "fighting over sharing toys" and how to make the fighting stop, and sometimes two people have to go to different parts of the room so there is no more fighting. Or whatever has happened recently for your kiddo.

If there are special pets, friends/family member relationships, or routines that may change, you can be proactive about talking about them: "We used to go to that park a lot, and I know you like that one. Even though we can't walk there as much, you just let me know when you want to go, and we'll see if we can drive instead", or "You're right, we haven't seen Aunt Carol in a while; would you like to draw a card to send her?"

At 4, I'm thinking there's no need to explain divorce/spousal abuse. Just lots of reassurance to your child that they didn't do anything wrong, that sometimes families change and have different places to live, and that what is important and special to them matters a lot.

[ForeverDad]

lots of reassurance to your child that they didn't do anything wrong

This will be important, even more so in the years to come.  Kids should not have to deal with adult matters or feel trapped in the middle having to choose.  But kids often feel that it's because of them that the troubles arose.  They may not even know how to express their feelings or worries.  That's why you can't forget to periodically reassure them that it's okay to just be a kid above all else.

[AskingWhy]

Bancroft also wrote "Should I Stay or Should I Go?", and this book discusses more about how to deduce if the abuser is suffering from a mental illness in addition to the abusive behavior.

There is also a companion book of "wisdom," like a workbook or affirmations, to the main Bancroft book.  It might help.  You can buy it on Kindle, too, for privacy from your partner.