Which arguments for custody worked at trial?

[BigOof]

If you went to trial for custody and were successful, could you please post a short description of argument that moved the judge in your favor?

[formflier]

Not really sure of a "single argument" that works. 

What does appear to work..."more often than not" is to present yourself to the court as the reasonable parent that is looking for solutions for your children.  Stay away from trying to get the court to rule on your relationship or your conflict.

So...if a court sees that

1.  parent a is trying to set up counseling for kids and parent b is sabotaging...that's important.

2.  Court appointed counselors/investigators that have the children's welfare as their primary responsibility get lots of weight from the court, probably more than any "argument" in front of the judge.

3.  Be able to support with evidence any arguments you do wish to make.  texts, calendars, even your notes to clarify the order of events.

Is their a particular argument you are considering?

Best,

FF

[BigOof]

Thanks for the guidance, FF.

I'm considering using:

• BPD is putting her own needs to ameliorate fear of abandonment above the child's needs to have two loving parents
• BPD is traumatizing child with uncontrolled emotional episodes
• BPD is engaging in parental alienation
• BPD has shown zero signs of co-parenting
• Child is showing signs of PTSD
• Throughout all of this, I have always put child's safety and needs first

[formflier]

For each of those bullet points...how would you "prove that"?  To the court.

Best,

FF

[BigOof]

Good question, FF.

Over a period of 3 years, 5 criminal charges dismissed at discovery, multiple kidnapping attempts, numerous videos of BPD engaging in DV, videos of the child with PTSD like symptoms, and a custody evaluator report.

[kells76]

Has your child been seeing a counselor or therapist?

[BigOof]

I've been trying to get the child into therapy but it the waitlists are long. Finding a play therapist that understands BPD in a pandemic and has room on their roster isn't easy. I need to take another pass at this.

Good point, kells76.

[kells76]

Finding a play therapist that understands BPD in a pandemic and has room on their roster isn't easy

That's a bit of what I've been hearing on the boards, too.

Do you have some documentation of your attempts (emails, etc)? Even if not, you can start documenting as you try again now.

Has your kid's mom obstructed any attempts to get kiddo into counseling? Any documentation/paper trail, if so?

[I Am Redeemed]

It may not be necessary to find a play therapist that has a working knowledge of BPD. For all intents and purposes, the behaviors of your ex and how they affect the child is what matters. A play therapist may not be really familiar with BPD but will likely recognize emotional abuse, etc. and will be able to recognize traumatic stress in the child and how the relationship with the disordered parent is contributing to that.

You might try contacting a local child advocacy center, if there is one in your city, especially if your child has been exposed to DV. Some child advocacy centers offer trauma-focused therapy for children. If not, they might be able to point you in the right direction.

[Couscous]

I also don’t think there’s any need to find play therapist, or a therapist who understands BPD. There seem to be fair number of therapists out there who are trained in Trauma Focused CBT so you may have better luck finding someone who has availability. EMDR is another good option and was very effective for my niece’s PTSD at age 13.

[BigOof]

The evidence is overwhelming for this case - hundreds of gigabytes of videos, recording, photos, and third party documentation. The problem will be selecting the right amount to make the point, but not bore the court to death.

Good suggestion re finding a Trauma Focused CBT therapist. I'll give that a try.

I'm updating my argument to include a section problem solving.

[zaqsert]

On finding a therapist, keep trying, and hopefully you'll find one soon.

I contacted more than 20 until I found a family therapist who had openings. Each time one of them said they were full, I asked for recommendations. After I realized it was a trend, I just asked about both their availability or recommendations in my first outreach, to make it faster. Most of them shared other names. Eventually, I found two who had openings, one of them with an opening on a day when my uBPDw, our D11, and I can all be available. So far, after our initial meetings, the therapist seems very good.

Good luck!

[formflier]

So..lots of evidence is great, perhaps you need to have an "executive summary" of the evidence.

1.  11 times my wife did X which resulted in my kids doing Y.  (for dates and times and further information on each incident see addendum A).

Maybe a good way to organize it is "impact on the children".

a.  11 times my wife did x which resulted in kids doing y.
b.  7 times my wife did  c which resulted in kids going d.

etc etc


The critical thing on a summary like that is that any claim you make better come true if the judge or others takes a look at your "supporting evidence".  Said another way...the judge doesn't have to look at 21 hours of video.  As long as the couple of things examined back up the general claim...you are good.  Make sure it is all available to be examined, should the court want that.

Switching gears:  As I read your list of what you have I would focus on the custody evaluator.  What does that report show/say?

Best,

FF

[BigOof]

The report gives a formal diagnosis of BPD. But that's meaningless to someone with BPD and who won't settle for anything other than total annihilation. So trial is it.

My lawyer says the main evidence is the report which is written by an expert. The report is a custody opinion with a step-by-step guide as how to get to the opinion. I'm trying to crowdsource any additional arguments that should be included in the report.

[formflier]

So...I think you have the main thing..the report that is favorable for you.

Make sure you can also show that you have the kids best interests at heart.  So..you are trying to get kids into therapy...pwBPD is trying to sabotage.  You are engaging with these professionals for the kids...pwBPD is "anti".

The report you already have may detail this.

Said another way...you appear to have proof that pwBPD is a "bad parent".  Make sure you can prove you are a "good parent".

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

I had an excellent child psychologist as a Custody Evaluator.  My lawyer said the court never ignored the recommendations.  During my 2 years in the divorce process the court (and my lawyer, despite him initially shushing me "we'll fix it later") never improved the defaulted biased-toward-mother temp order.

The initial CE report stated "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  However, it also stated that if the court shifted from the Mother's custody in the temp order to Shared Parenting (equal everything) in the final decree and it failed then Father should have custody.

Finally we arrived at court on Trial Day.  We settled "on the courthouse steps", well if our court would have had steps.  My spouse had stretched her favorable temp order to the limit.

I exited my divorce with Shared Parenting, equal time and equal rights.  One condition in my settlement on Trial Day was that I would be the Parent Responsible for School Purposes.  Predictably she virtually had a meltdown but my condition was that or we start the trial.

I had a few reasons for my single condition.  I did worry she would move around (she did) and I could be left moving around to follow my kid.  He was in first grade at the time.  But — why I tell this story here — I also had a concern she would try to home school, she had contemplated that when he was a toddler.  Why?  I was worried she, with an undiagnosed acting-out PD, could not home school well.  And I desperately didn't want to find out the hard way.

You may feel getting an agreement for 50/50 is great - and it is - but when an entitled ex is involved you can keep going back to the court or mediator over all sorts of issues.  What if she decides to change pediatricians, dentists, schools, religious instruction, etc and you don't agree?  An equal 50/50 doesn't resolve such scenarios.  That is why courts prefer one parent has Decision Making or Tie Breaker or similar status.  The problem?  Mothers are typically defaulted to being in charge of the kids' custodial matters.

In my case I set one condition before making a recommended 50/50 settlement on Trial Day at the end of a two-year divorce process during which she was the two-year "temporary" custodial parent.  I was concerned she'd move around - and she did - and I'd have to uproot to stay close to my son.  My sole condition?  That I was the parent handling school matters.  Both lawyers insisted it didn't mean anything but it turned out I was right.  She caused more scenes at her own chosen school that within two months her school board gave me one day to register my kindergartner in my own nearby school district.  If I didn't have school authority then her school would have been stuck with her too.  Believe me, they were oh so glad to dump her.

So my recommendation is that if the court and lawyers are favoring equal parental status as the outcome, do try to get whatever possible to ensure you have an edge.  Sadly, many courts still give mothers default preference, even if they don't deserve it, or choose to ignore obvious problems.

[BigOof]

I took the advice given on this thread and sent an email to the BPD requesting written consent for our child to get a therapist. Oh boy, did that blow up! Within hours it was lawyers and experts and letters and counter-accusations and a written refusal from her lawyer to allow the child to see a therapist.

Who am I to even suggest a BPD cannot emotionally control a child (who has a therapist)?

Trainwreck.

[GaGrl]

Were you surprised?

Now you have documentation on obstruction to therapy.

[ForeverDad]

My lawyer bluntly told me "courts love counseling".  Yes, there may be obstruction by the other parent and the other lawyer, but if you seek it in court, the court will almost surely rule the children get counseling.

However, there is a major concern here... You don't want counseling to be without a proper framework.  If you leave it open for re-interpretation, then expect the disordered spouse to force you to accept a gullible or biased counselor.  Here's a strategy to avoid or reduce that risk:

Onward with my contribution.  His son really should be in counseling.  Not with just any counselor but an experienced one who isn't gullible and won't take any guff from a misbehaving disordered parent.

Odds are she will reject that idea.  If she can't be convinced to do that then dad would have basis to go to court for a two-for-one hearing with a family court judge or magistrate.  He can ask for son to start counseling.  (Courts love counseling, my lawyer told me.)  He can state that he wants (1) custodial authority to handle such matters since his ex is refusing counseling for son and (2) his long-term level of parenting documented with a new order where he gets more time on paper to match his history of majority parenting.

By the way, if already divorced, to change custody may require filing for Change of Circumstances.  Going to court should include interviewing and vetting a proactive and experienced lawyer with solid strategies.  Of course, we here in peer support are invaluable too.  We have a vast wealth of collective experience and can usually discern what strategies and approaches are more likely to work and which more likely to be insufficient or fail.

He needs to be prepared though.  He can't let her choose a gullible or pliable counselor.  One method that courts like, because it involves both parents, is for him (or you quietly) to interview and vet counselors, make a short list that accept the current insurance and then let her choose from that smart and vetted list.  I repeat, you can't let her choose one who hasn't been vetted.

In addition, don't forget that schools usually have guidance counselors.  While their help may be limited, it's better than nothing.  That's another reason to petition the court for mental health responsibility, including at school.

[CoherentMoose]

Suggest you continue to pull on the therapy thread with your STBX. 

It took us close to two years and 15 documented attempts thwarted by my GFs ex before her lawyer was confident enough to go into court and get court ordered therapy.  The court ordered the therapy, and allowed my GF to obtain in-person therapy which her ex is refusing to help pay for.  And now he's emailed the counseling center demanding reports of the therapy sessions.  It's our understanding that will not happen and we're gearing up for more legal action should his bullying attempts continue.  Our goal is to find a good long term therapist for each child to help them.  We do not need, nor want, reports.  My GF asks only for advice for how to handle issues she observes.

Keep pressing on with what is best for your children.  Good luck.  CoMo   

[kells76]

I took the advice given on this thread and sent an email to the BPD requesting written consent for our child to get a therapist. Oh boy, did that blow up! Within hours it was lawyers and experts and letters and counter-accusations and a written refusal from her lawyer to allow the child to see a therapist.

My guess is that this is going to help you a lot, in terms of your initial question (which arguments for custody worked at trial).

Consider implementing FD's recommendation of how to come across as a no-drama, practical problem solver:

Your Honor, the kids obviously need counseling [ideally you'd have documentation here], but their mom is obstructing, as you can see in Emails 1 through 17. While I'm saddened she doesn't see what's best for them, I'm willing to rise above it and get the kids what they need. Here's a list of 3 reputable counselors in the area, I'm fine with Mom picking one of them and emailing me her choice by 9pm on Day/Date. If she doesn't, then I'll pick one from the list and get appointments going.

[formflier]

My guess is that this is going to help you a lot, in terms of your initial question (which arguments for custody worked at trial).
 
 

On the one hand it's disappointing to have to wait.

But this is GOLD that you have a letter from a lawyer demanding not T.  That's going to be hard for them to come back and say "We were confused...oh going to T..sure that's ok"

Courts really really don't like keeping kids (obstructing) from professional resources.

Best,

FF

[kells76]

But this is GOLD that you have a letter from a lawyer demanding not T.

To add to that, lawyers don't just send that kind of stuff "on their own". Lawyers do what their clients tell them to do -- just so there's no confusion about "well Mom was OK with it but she couldn't convince the lawyer".